---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/16/12: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:26 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 09/15/12 (mike soucy) 2. 09:21 AM - Re: flop (Daniel Engelkenjohn) 3. 12:53 PM - Re: Jeff's external aileron cables (bender) 4. 12:55 PM - Re: Update (bender) 5. 02:57 PM - Re: Chick Magnet is Kicking In (Jim Boyer) 6. 05:58 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 09/15/12 (Bruce Kirk) 7. 06:05 PM - Radiator (bender) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:55 AM PST US From: mike soucy Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 09/15/12 If anyone is in need of sweet running A65 with millennium cylinders, fresh annual,about 300 hrs, -have my whole air camper for sale for around $6000 . Sure it's one of a kind and little on the heavy side (780 empty), but I b een flying it for 14yrs had tons of fun. For the price of an engine you cou ld be flying right off plus get full instruments, Tenn. prop, wheels,tires, brakes, brake clyinders-(pedal mounted) ,tail wheel, gascolator, landing gear (cub style) , primer turnbuckles ,hardware etc. This aircraft is not junk her annual was just 3 months ago. I have bought a Taylorcraft project and priced the Air camper to move so as to have money to finish the t craft . The reason I say around $6000 is the t craft came with bendix mags that h ad the shaft shortened to fit the A65, the inspector says all though they s hould be fine it is not proper for certified ( miss experimental already) s o will swapping out the slicks that are in the Air camper. This is out of my comfort zone so either buyer will have to do or I will have to hire them changed and that is why final price will have to be agreed upon. Plane is in Maine, I could fly it a reasonable distance to deliver or it could b e trailered wing come off pretty easy. miken77800 --- On Sun, 9/16/12, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:prop- From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 09/15/12 * ======================== ---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =html&Chapter 12-09-15&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =txt&Chapter 12-09-15&Archive=Pietenpol ======================== ======================= ---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== ======================= - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- - - - - - - - - - - - - ---Pietenpol-List Dig est Archive - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Sat 09/1 5/12: 18 - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- - ---1. 04:26 AM - Re: Update- (Don Emch) - ---2. 02:39 PM - Jeff's external aileron cables- (nightmare) - ---3. 02:46 PM - Chick Magnet is Kicking In- (Gary Boothe) - ---4. 02:52 PM - need help deciding on powerplant- (nightmare) - ---5. 02:52 PM - need help deciding on powerplant- (nightmare) - ---6. 03:07 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Gary Bo othe) - ---7. 03:22 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Ryan Mu eller) - ---8. 03:46 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (IT Girl ) - ---9. 04:06 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (IT Girl ) - - 10. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Ken Bic kers) - - 11. 06:13 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Pietn38b@ao l.com) - - 12. 06:21 PM - flop- (Daniel Engelkenjohn) - - 13. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Jack Ph illips) - - 14. 06:55 PM - Re: flop- (Ryan Mueller) - - 15. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Ryan Mu eller) - - 16. 07:18 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (IT Girl) - - 17. 09:20 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (nightmare) - - 18. 09:43 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (K5YAC) ________________________________- Message 1- __________________________ ___________ Time: 04:26:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Update From: "Don Emch" Jeff, Very, very nice.- I love the look.- Didn't you start building that thin g like... last month!? And yes... Welcome to the Green and Cream Team! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383161#383161 ________________________________- Message 2- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:39:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jeff's external aileron cables From: "nightmare" Are there any plans/drawings on that external aileron setup? Thanks; Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383188#383188 ________________________________- Message 3- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:46:02 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chick Magnet is Kicking In Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________- Message 4- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:52:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continen tal. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinio ns on the Corvair. ---What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would b e to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doin g all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________- Message 5- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:52:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continen tal. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinio ns on the Corvair. ---What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would b e to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doin g all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383190#383190 ________________________________- Message 6- __________________________ ___________ Time: 03:07:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant Paul, Just my humble opinion.... Do not sell short the starter/alternator combo, for several reasons:- 1) You're only talking about a few hundred dollars; 2) The corvair is not comfortable to prop (I've done it...compression occur s at a lower position); 3) The safety factor is HUGE! William Wynne will tell you the same thing. As for which way the prop turns...I'm elated that my prop spins the same wa y as a Spitfire!! Stop flip/flopping, sign up for the next Corvair College in Barnwell, SC, and get on with your project. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant --> I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wante d some opinions on the Corvair. ---What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurg e would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i woul d be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________- Message 7- __________________________ ___________ Time: 03:22:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ryan Mueller Well, I started typing, but Gary beat me too it....so I'll just have to say: I concur. There's zero point in reversing the rotation. Having hand-propped a Corvair (not even a fresh engine, it was the Last Original before the rebuild): no thank you. So much nicer to be able to just climb in and push a button. The starter is well worth the money. And why bother worrying about having to charge a battery to power your ignition? On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Paul, > > Just my humble opinion.... > > Do not sell short the starter/alternator combo, for several reasons: > > 1) You're only talking about a few hundred dollars; > 2) The corvair is not comfortable to prop (I've done it...compression > occurs > at a lower position); > 3) The safety factor is HUGE! William Wynne will tell you the same thing. > > As for which way the prop turns...I'm elated that my prop spins the same > way > as a Spitfire!! > > Stop flip/flopping, sign up for the next Corvair College in Barnwell, SC, > and get on with your project. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:52 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant > > --> > > I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a > Continental. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wan ted > some opinions on the Corvair. >- - What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no > starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only > splurge > would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i > would > be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at > flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. > Thanks; > Paul > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 > > ________________________________- Message 8- __________________________ ___________ Time: 03:46:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" Here Here!! -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383195#383195 ________________________________- Message 9- __________________________ ___________ Time: 04:06:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" Here is the thing.- Your power plant choice is really your own.- You wi ll get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice.- Bottom line it is your decision.- Talk with some of the guys about the flight charact eristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based o n your needs and your budget. For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs ma intenance (my opinion). Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process with the corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either.- If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC.- Many people come t o Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants.- If you cant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin, TX Good luck. -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 ________________________________- Message 10- _________________________ ___________ Time: 04:51:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ken Bickers Shelley, I can't make it to Barnwell for the upcoming Corvair College, but will try my damndest to get to Austin for the one in the spring. Do you have dates, even tentative ones, yet for the Austin CC? Thanks, Ken On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:05 PM, IT Girl wrote: > > Here is the thing.- Your power plant choice is really your own.- You will get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice.- Bott om line it is your decision.- Talk with some of the guys about the flight charact eristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based on your needs and your budget. > > For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probab ly looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). > > Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process with t he corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either. > > If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC.- Many people come to Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants.- If you cant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin, TX > Good luck. > > -------- > Shelley Tumino > IT Girl > wife of "Axel" > NX899KP > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 > > ________________________________- Message 11- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:13:55 PM PST US From: Pietn38b@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant Paul I now have three corvair powered aircraft.- The one in my piet is a- plane-jane Pietenpol conversion.- I have had no trouble with hand proppin g- although since I put starters on the other two I have decided to put a star ter on the Piet in the furture.- I also hand propped the DA-2A for the first- 500 hrs also.- Even though I really like the corvairs the little- continent als are hard to beat in a Piet, I've flown both. Jim Ballew.- In a message dated 9/15/2012 4:52:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,- pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com writes: -->- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "nightmare"- I may be flip flopping. Lately have- been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying- to keep an open mind and wa nted some opinions on the Corvair. What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter,- alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only spl urge would be- to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i w ould be doing- all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com,- but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Than ks;- Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not- archive Read this topic online- here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________- Message 12- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:21:21 PM PST US From: "Daniel Engelkenjohn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop Are there any plans or dimensions for a center section flop available? Dennis ________________________________- Message 13- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:47:27 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant -----Original Message----- For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). Not necessarily true.- I bought my Continental A65 as a box of parts, for $1500.- Two years later I bought new Millenium cylinders for it.- A yea r later I sent the crankshaft and the crankcase out for overhaul and bought a new camshaft.- A year later I assembled everything.- Total cost $7,500 for a zero time vertified aircraft engine - very little more than a full-up Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing. As Shelley said, the deciding factor should be the type of flying you expec t to do and the terrain you will be flying over.- Will you be flying out of short strips with tall trees?- If so you may need more power and opt for a Corvair, or an O-200 or O-235. One thing to remember in choosing is how easy it may be to get service if you have a problem away from home.- Most aircraft repair shops will not touch an auto engine conversion, so while you might be able to repair a Corvair or Ford very inexensively, you may not be able to repair it at all when on a trip. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia ________________________________- Message 14- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:55:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flop From: Ryan Mueller The flop is in the F&G Manual plans, but not in the later full size plans. It's offset to the left in the original one piece wing plans, which would make sense since you are stepping up and in from the left side. With the three piece you either just flop the trailing portion of the center section, or figure out how you might want to work out an offset portion to the left. Part of the fun! [image: Inline image 1] On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Daniel Engelkenjohn w rote: >---Are there any plans or dimensions for a center section flop avail able? > > Dennis > > * > > * > > ________________________________- Message 15- _________________________ ___________ Time: 07:06:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ryan Mueller Just to play devil's advocate, 8 years ago you majored a 65HP aircraft engine for $7500 (and odds are that price has not gone down, probably not stayed the same, maybe increased a bit).....as opposed to the Corvair at roughly the same price today, delivering 100HP.... But then it is 65HP to 100HP, and aircraft to auto conversion, so kind of apples and oranges ;-) On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Jack Phillips wrot e: > pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probab ly > looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a > corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit i s > that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it > when it needs maintenance (my opinion). > > Not necessarily true.- I bought my Continental A65 as a box of parts, f or > $1500.- Two years later I bought new Millenium cylinders for it.- A y ear > later I sent the crankshaft and the crankcase out for overhaul and bought a > new camshaft.- A year later I assembled everything.- Total cost $7,50 0 for > a > zero time vertified aircraft engine - very little more than a full-up > Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing. > > As Shelley said, the deciding factor should be the type of flying you > expect > to do and the terrain you will be flying over.- Will you be flying out of > short strips with tall trees?- If so you may need more power and opt fo r a > Corvair, or an O-200 or O-235. > > One thing to remember in choosing is how easy it may be to get service if > you have a problem away from home.- Most aircraft repair shops will not > touch an auto engine conversion, so while you might be able to repair a > Corvair or Ford very inexensively, you may not be able to repair it at al l > when on a trip. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > ________________________________- Message 16- _________________________ ___________ Time: 07:18:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" It will be Spring of 2014 Ken.- Kevin is doing really well, but I have mi litary obligations this spring that will have me out of the house for a month, and I can't leave him to do it all alone. We also want to have a fuselage built t o put our engine on for the CC.- So pencil us in for March of 2014. bickers.ken(at)gmail.com wrote: > Shelley, I can't make it to Barnwell for the upcoming Corvair College, > but will try my damndest to get to Austin for the one in the spring. > Do you have dates, even tentative ones, yet for the Austin CC? > Thanks, Ken > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:05 PM, IT Girl- wrote: > > >- > > > >- Here is the thing.- Your power plant choice is really your own.- You will get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice.- Bottom line it is your decision.- Talk with some of the guys about the flight ch aracteristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based on your needs and your budget. > > > >- For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are p robably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a c orvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it ne eds maintenance (my opinion). > > > >- Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process w ith the corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either. > > > >- If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC.- Many people come to Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants.- If you c ant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin , TX > >- Good luck. > > > >- -------- > >- Shelley Tumino > >- IT Girl > >- wife of "Axel" > >- NX899KP > > > >- DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > >- Read this topic online here: > > > >- http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383206#383206 ________________________________- Message 17- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:20:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" This is good stuff guys and girl. i just assumed the corvair was just as ea sy as the cont s hand propping, but looks like maybe not so. The gradual emptying of my wallet rather than dumping it all out at once, is something to think about. even though i dont know much about either, i have done complete rebuilds of auto engines in the past, so i think i could handle working on either one. the cost of rebuilding the cont vs the corvair is pretty amazing. i'll obviousl y be doing more research on my own to make a decision, but just these few res ponses were very helpful. thank you ; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383208#383208 ________________________________- Message 18- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:43:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "K5YAC" What Gary said. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383209#383209 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:02 AM PST US From: "Daniel Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flop thank you! dennis From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flop The flop is in the F&G Manual plans, but not in the later full size plans. It's offset to the left in the original one piece wing plans, which would make sense since you are stepping up and in from the left side. With the three piece you either just flop the trailing portion of the center section, or figure out how you might want to work out an offset portion to the left. Part of the fun! On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Daniel Engelkenjohn wrote: Are there any plans or dimensions for a center section flop available? Dennis " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeff's external aileron cables From: "bender" Its all in the 1932 flying and glider manual.. I built my plane from those plans.. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383246#383246 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Update From: "bender" Thanks Don.. i started building 22 months ago.. i guess thats kinda quick jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383247#383247 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:31 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chick Magnet is Kicking In Okay Gary; lets get the hours flown off. Cheers, Jim ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:24 PM PST US From: Bruce Kirk Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 09/15/12 Hi everyone I have been reading with great interest, corvair vs continental. What about insuring the aircraft with a certified vs auto conversion. Does this affec t bottom line price. bruce --- On Sun, 9/16/12, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 09/15/12 * ======================== ---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =html&Chapter 12-09-15&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =txt&Chapter 12-09-15&Archive=Pietenpol ====================== ---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- - - - - - - - - - - - - ---Pietenpol-List Dig est Archive - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Sat 09/1 5/12: 18 - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- - ---1. 04:26 AM - Re: Update- (Don Emch) - ---2. 02:39 PM - Jeff's external aileron cables- (nightmare) - ---3. 02:46 PM - Chick Magnet is Kicking In- (Gary Boothe) - ---4. 02:52 PM - need help deciding on powerplant- (nightmare) - ---5. 02:52 PM - need help deciding on powerplant- (nightmare) - ---6. 03:07 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Gary Bo othe) - ---7. 03:22 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Ryan Mu eller) - ---8. 03:46 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (IT Girl ) - ---9. 04:06 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (IT Girl ) - - 10. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Ken Bic kers) - - 11. 06:13 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Pietn38b@ao l.com) - - 12. 06:21 PM - flop- (Daniel Engelkenjohn) - - 13. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Jack Ph illips) - - 14. 06:55 PM - Re: flop- (Ryan Mueller) - - 15. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (Ryan Mu eller) - - 16. 07:18 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (IT Girl) - - 17. 09:20 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (nightmare) - - 18. 09:43 PM - Re: need help deciding on powerplant- (K5YAC) ________________________________- Message 1- __________________________ ___________ Time: 04:26:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Update From: "Don Emch" Jeff, Very, very nice.- I love the look.- Didn't you start building that thin g like... last month!? And yes... Welcome to the Green and Cream Team! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383161#383161 ________________________________- Message 2- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:39:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jeff's external aileron cables From: "nightmare" Are there any plans/drawings on that external aileron setup? Thanks; Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383188#383188 ________________________________- Message 3- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:46:02 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chick Magnet is Kicking In Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________- Message 4- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:52:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continen tal. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinio ns on the Corvair. ---What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would b e to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doin g all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________- Message 5- __________________________ ___________ Time: 02:52:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continen tal. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wanted some opinio ns on the Corvair. ---What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurge would b e to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i would be doin g all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383190#383190 ________________________________- Message 6- __________________________ ___________ Time: 03:07:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant Paul, Just my humble opinion.... Do not sell short the starter/alternator combo, for several reasons:- 1) You're only talking about a few hundred dollars; 2) The corvair is not comfortable to prop (I've done it...compression occur s at a lower position); 3) The safety factor is HUGE! William Wynne will tell you the same thing. As for which way the prop turns...I'm elated that my prop spins the same wa y as a Spitfire!! Stop flip/flopping, sign up for the next Corvair College in Barnwell, SC, and get on with your project. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant --> I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wante d some opinions on the Corvair. ---What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only splurg e would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i woul d be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________- Message 7- __________________________ ___________ Time: 03:22:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ryan Mueller Well, I started typing, but Gary beat me too it....so I'll just have to say: I concur. There's zero point in reversing the rotation. Having hand-propped a Corvair (not even a fresh engine, it was the Last Original before the rebuild): no thank you. So much nicer to be able to just climb in and push a button. The starter is well worth the money. And why bother worrying about having to charge a battery to power your ignition? On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Paul, > > Just my humble opinion.... > > Do not sell short the starter/alternator combo, for several reasons: > > 1) You're only talking about a few hundred dollars; > 2) The corvair is not comfortable to prop (I've done it...compression > occurs > at a lower position); > 3) The safety factor is HUGE! William Wynne will tell you the same thing. > > As for which way the prop turns...I'm elated that my prop spins the same > way > as a Spitfire!! > > Stop flip/flopping, sign up for the next Corvair College in Barnwell, SC, > and get on with your project. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:52 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant > > --> > > I may be flip flopping. Lately have been leaning heavily towards a > Continental. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying to keep an open mind and wan ted > some opinions on the Corvair. >- - What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no > starter, alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only > splurge > would be to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i > would > be doing all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at > flycorvair.com, but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. > Thanks; > Paul > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 > > ________________________________- Message 8- __________________________ ___________ Time: 03:46:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" Here Here!! -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383195#383195 ________________________________- Message 9- __________________________ ___________ Time: 04:06:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" Here is the thing.- Your power plant choice is really your own.- You wi ll get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice.- Bottom line it is your decision.- Talk with some of the guys about the flight charact eristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based o n your needs and your budget. For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs ma intenance (my opinion). Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process with the corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either.- If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC.- Many people come t o Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants.- If you cant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin, TX Good luck. -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 ________________________________- Message 10- _________________________ ___________ Time: 04:51:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ken Bickers Shelley, I can't make it to Barnwell for the upcoming Corvair College, but will try my damndest to get to Austin for the one in the spring. Do you have dates, even tentative ones, yet for the Austin CC? Thanks, Ken On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:05 PM, IT Girl wrote: > > Here is the thing.- Your power plant choice is really your own.- You will get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice.- Bott om line it is your decision.- Talk with some of the guys about the flight charact eristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based on your needs and your budget. > > For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probab ly looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). > > Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process with t he corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either. > > If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC.- Many people come to Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants.- If you cant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin, TX > Good luck. > > -------- > Shelley Tumino > IT Girl > wife of "Axel" > NX899KP > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 > > ________________________________- Message 11- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:13:55 PM PST US From: Pietn38b@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need help deciding on powerplant Paul I now have three corvair powered aircraft.- The one in my piet is a- plane-jane Pietenpol conversion.- I have had no trouble with hand proppin g- although since I put starters on the other two I have decided to put a star ter on the Piet in the furture.- I also hand propped the DA-2A for the first- 500 hrs also.- Even though I really like the corvairs the little- continent als are hard to beat in a Piet, I've flown both. Jim Ballew.- In a message dated 9/15/2012 4:52:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,- pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com writes: -->- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "nightmare"- I may be flip flopping. Lately have- been leaning heavily towards a Continental. from a65 to 0200.- I'm trying- to keep an open mind and wa nted some opinions on the Corvair. What could i expect to spend on the lower horsepower corvair with no starter,- alternator. Just bare bones, hand propping action. the only spl urge would be- to put the other cam in it so it turns the "right" way. And i w ould be doing- all the work myself. I'm going to talk to the folks over at flycorvair.com,- but i also wanted some real Piet builders opinions. Than ks;- Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not- archive Read this topic online- here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383191#383191 ________________________________- Message 12- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:21:21 PM PST US From: "Daniel Engelkenjohn" Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop Are there any plans or dimensions for a center section flop available? Dennis ________________________________- Message 13- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:47:27 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant -----Original Message----- For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it needs maintenance (my opinion). Not necessarily true.- I bought my Continental A65 as a box of parts, for $1500.- Two years later I bought new Millenium cylinders for it.- A yea r later I sent the crankshaft and the crankcase out for overhaul and bought a new camshaft.- A year later I assembled everything.- Total cost $7,500 for a zero time vertified aircraft engine - very little more than a full-up Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing. As Shelley said, the deciding factor should be the type of flying you expec t to do and the terrain you will be flying over.- Will you be flying out of short strips with tall trees?- If so you may need more power and opt for a Corvair, or an O-200 or O-235. One thing to remember in choosing is how easy it may be to get service if you have a problem away from home.- Most aircraft repair shops will not touch an auto engine conversion, so while you might be able to repair a Corvair or Ford very inexensively, you may not be able to repair it at all when on a trip. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia ________________________________- Message 14- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:55:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flop From: Ryan Mueller The flop is in the F&G Manual plans, but not in the later full size plans. It's offset to the left in the original one piece wing plans, which would make sense since you are stepping up and in from the left side. With the three piece you either just flop the trailing portion of the center section, or figure out how you might want to work out an offset portion to the left. Part of the fun! [image: Inline image 1] On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Daniel Engelkenjohn w rote: >---Are there any plans or dimensions for a center section flop avail able? > > Dennis > > * > > * > > ________________________________- Message 15- _________________________ ___________ Time: 07:06:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: Ryan Mueller Just to play devil's advocate, 8 years ago you majored a 65HP aircraft engine for $7500 (and odds are that price has not gone down, probably not stayed the same, maybe increased a bit).....as opposed to the Corvair at roughly the same price today, delivering 100HP.... But then it is 65HP to 100HP, and aircraft to auto conversion, so kind of apples and oranges ;-) On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Jack Phillips wrot e: > pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are probab ly > looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a > corvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit i s > that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it > when it needs maintenance (my opinion). > > Not necessarily true.- I bought my Continental A65 as a box of parts, f or > $1500.- Two years later I bought new Millenium cylinders for it.- A y ear > later I sent the crankshaft and the crankcase out for overhaul and bought a > new camshaft.- A year later I assembled everything.- Total cost $7,50 0 for > a > zero time vertified aircraft engine - very little more than a full-up > Corvair conversion with the fifth bearing. > > As Shelley said, the deciding factor should be the type of flying you > expect > to do and the terrain you will be flying over.- Will you be flying out of > short strips with tall trees?- If so you may need more power and opt fo r a > Corvair, or an O-200 or O-235. > > One thing to remember in choosing is how easy it may be to get service if > you have a problem away from home.- Most aircraft repair shops will not > touch an auto engine conversion, so while you might be able to repair a > Corvair or Ford very inexensively, you may not be able to repair it at al l > when on a trip. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > ________________________________- Message 16- _________________________ ___________ Time: 07:18:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "IT Girl" It will be Spring of 2014 Ken.- Kevin is doing really well, but I have mi litary obligations this spring that will have me out of the house for a month, and I can't leave him to do it all alone. We also want to have a fuselage built t o put our engine on for the CC.- So pencil us in for March of 2014. bickers.ken(at)gmail.com wrote: > Shelley, I can't make it to Barnwell for the upcoming Corvair College, > but will try my damndest to get to Austin for the one in the spring. > Do you have dates, even tentative ones, yet for the Austin CC? > Thanks, Ken > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:05 PM, IT Girl- wrote: > > >- > > > >- Here is the thing.- Your power plant choice is really your own.- You will get strong opinions here from everyone, based on their personal choice.- Bottom line it is your decision.- Talk with some of the guys about the flight ch aracteristics you need, and the geographic locations where you will do the most flying. You will come to a decision about what powerplant is right for you, based on your needs and your budget. > > > >- For example, if you are leaning toward a certified engine, you are p robably looking at an immediate outlay of expense in a lump sum, where building a c orvair can be done piecemeal as you can afford it.- An added benefit is that you built it, you know how it is put together, and can likely fix it when it ne eds maintenance (my opinion). > > > >- Grace and William at FLycorvair will guide you through the process w ith the corvair, but they will not guide you to any specific powerplant either. > > > >- If you are able, please come to CC24 in Barnwell, SC.- Many people come to Corvair College to help make their decision about power plants.- If you c ant make CC24, we will be hosting a Corvair College in Spring of 2014 in Austin , TX > >- Good luck. > > > >- -------- > >- Shelley Tumino > >- IT Girl > >- wife of "Axel" > >- NX899KP > > > >- DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > >- Read this topic online here: > > > >- http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383196#383196 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP DO NOT ARCHIVE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383206#383206 ________________________________- Message 17- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:20:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "nightmare" This is good stuff guys and girl. i just assumed the corvair was just as ea sy as the cont s hand propping, but looks like maybe not so. The gradual emptying of my wallet rather than dumping it all out at once, is something to think about. even though i dont know much about either, i have done complete rebuilds of auto engines in the past, so i think i could handle working on either one. the cost of rebuilding the cont vs the corvair is pretty amazing. i'll obviousl y be doing more research on my own to make a decision, but just these few res ponses were very helpful. thank you ; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383208#383208 ________________________________- Message 18- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:43:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: need help deciding on powerplant From: "K5YAC" What Gary said. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383209#383209 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radiator From: "bender" Hey guys... just a note.. http://www.ellisracingproducts.com/ this is the guy that made my radiator.. he's into RC planes too and knows what a piet is... fast and i think the quality is nice lightweight jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383280#383280 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.