---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/01/12: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:09 AM - Re: Nice weekend (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 05:42 AM - Re: Nice weekend (Greg Bacon) 3. 05:55 AM - Re: Nice weekend (TOM STINEMETZE) 4. 05:55 AM - Re: Nice weekend (TOM STINEMETZE) 5. 06:02 AM - Re: Nice weekend (Amsafetyc) 6. 06:06 AM - rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Greg Bacon) 7. 06:18 AM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Jim Markle) 8. 06:20 AM - Correction: pn 09-03810. rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Jim Markle) 9. 06:21 AM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (kevinpurtee) 10. 06:28 AM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Jack Phillips) 11. 06:29 AM - Re: Nice weekend (Jim Markle) 12. 06:32 AM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (TOM STINEMETZE) 13. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: EAA Calendar photo (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 14. 06:48 AM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Rick Schreiber) 15. 07:29 AM - Re: Nice weekend (Jim Boyer) 16. 08:55 AM - Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery (kevinpurtee) 17. 09:14 AM - Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery (gboothe5@comcast.net) 18. 09:28 AM - Re: Nice weekend (gboothe5@comcast.net) 19. 09:47 AM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Michael Perez) 20. 10:53 AM - Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery (K5YAC) 21. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (helspersew@aol.com) 22. 11:57 AM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (C N Campbell) 23. 01:42 PM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Frank Metcalfe) 24. 02:00 PM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (helspersew@aol.com) 25. 02:05 PM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Frank Metcalfe) 26. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (gboothe5@comcast.net) 27. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (helspersew@aol.com) 28. 03:15 PM - Fly-in this weekend in PA (gliderx5@comcast.net) 29. 04:12 PM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (tools) 30. 04:19 PM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (gabenner) 31. 05:37 PM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Jerry Dotson) 32. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Gene Rambo) 33. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: EAA Calendar photo (dog67@aol.com) 34. 07:39 PM - Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Greg Bacon) 35. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat (Greg Bacon) 36. 08:21 PM - Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery (taildrags) 37. 09:31 PM - Re: EAA Calendar photo (taildrags) 38. 11:01 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 39. 11:06 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) 40. 11:44 PM - Re: EAA Calendar photo (jarheadpilot82) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend From: helspersew@aol.com MAN! I GOT to try this! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Greg Cardinal Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 9:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend The weather was beautiful in Minnesota this weekend. With the help of fello w Piet pilots Bob Poore and Norm Tesmar we introduced a group from the Alph a Gamma Delta sorority at the Univ. of Minnesota to the joys of Pietenpol f lying. Greg Cardinal ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend From: Greg Bacon Greg - You are living right! Thanks for sharing the pic. Greg Bacon On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Greg Cardinal wrote: > ** > The weather was beautiful in Minnesota this weekend. With the help of > fellow Piet pilots Bob Poore and Norm Tesmar we introduced a group from the > Alpha Gamma Delta sorority at the Univ. of Minnesota to the joys of > Pietenpol flying. > > Greg Cardinal > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:13 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend Way to take one for the team, Greg. Tom Stinemetze do not archive >>> "Greg Cardinal" 9/30/2012 9:59 PM >>> The weather was beautiful in Minnesota this weekend. With the help of fellow Piet pilots Bob Poore and Norm Tesmar we introduced a group from the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority at the Univ. of Minnesota to the joys of Pietenpol flying. Greg Cardinal ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:14 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend From: Amsafetyc Is that the November picture? Sent from my iPhone On Oct 1, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Greg Bacon wrote: > Greg - You are living right! > > Thanks for sharing the pic. > > Greg Bacon > > > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Greg Cardinal wro te: >> The weather was beautiful in Minnesota this weekend. With the help of fel low Piet pilots Bob Poore and Norm Tesmar we introduced a group from the Alp ha Gamma Delta sorority at the Univ. of Minnesota to the joys of Pietenpol f lying. >> >> Greg Cardinal > > > > -- > Greg Bacon > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: Greg Bacon Hey folks! This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric and began rib stitching. Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing cord. The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult (frustrating!!) to dress the knots properly. The thick waxy coating also makes it sticky to handle. Is the flat cord easier to handle? What did you guys use? Thanks. -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:28 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Flat. Pn 09-03818 from AIrcraft Spruce..... -----Original Message----- From: Greg Bacon Sent: Oct 1, 2012 9:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Hey folks! This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric and began rib stitching. Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing cord. The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult (frustrating!!) to dress the knots properly. The thick waxy coating also makes it sticky to handle. Is the flat cord easier to handle? What did you guys use? Thanks. -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:02 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Correction: pn 09-03810. Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat -----Original Message----- >From: Jim Markle >Sent: Oct 1, 2012 9:18 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat > >Flat. Pn 09-03818 from AIrcraft Spruce..... > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Greg Bacon > >Sent: Oct 1, 2012 9:06 AM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat > > >Hey folks! This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric and began rib stitching. Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing cord. The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult (frustrating!!) to dress the knots properly. The thick waxy coating also makes it sticky to handle. > >Is the flat cord easier to handle? What did you guys use? >Thanks. > >-- >Greg Bacon > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: "kevinpurtee" Greg - I used round and didn't find it particularly difficult to work with with some practice. Have never used the flat cord but I'm guessing it would not be easier and you'd have to make sure there were no twists where it showed on the outside. Others who have used it will correct me as necessary, of course. Congratulations on getting to that step in your process. I found it took me about an hour per rib & I used duct tape on my pinky to keep from bleeding. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384371#384371 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:27 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat I used the round riblacing cord. Didn't find any particular problem with it twistinig, but I didn't use very long lengths - maybe 6' at a time Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Hey folks! This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric and began rib stitching. Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing cord. The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult (frustrating!!) to dress the knots properly. The thick waxy coating also makes it sticky to handle. Is the flat cord easier to handle? What did you guys use? Thanks. -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:41 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend And I thought all those "first Pietenpol flight" messages were motivating!! I'm going to the shop...... ----Original Message----- From: Greg Cardinal Sent: Sep 30, 2012 10:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend The weather was beautiful in Minnesota this weekend. With the help of fellow Piet pilots Bob Poore and Norm Tesmar we introduced a group from the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority at the Univ. of Minnesota to the joys of Pietenpol flying. Greg Cardinal ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:18 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Greg: When I took the EAA Sportair Workshop on fabric covering they let us try both the round and the flat cord just to see which we liked best. Out of a class of 25, as I recall, we all chose the flat as easier to work with. One of the benefits is that the flat surface is a little easier on your fingers but you still needed some finger protection after working for a while. The part of your finger needing protection is the part where the string rubs when you pull the knots tight. Stinemetze >>> "kevinpurtee" 10/1/2012 8:21 AM >>> Greg - I used round and didn't find it particularly difficult to work with with some practice. Have never used the flat cord but I'm guessing it would not be easier and you'd have to make sure there were no twists where it showed on the outside. Others who have used it will correct me as necessary, of course. Congratulations on getting to that step in your process. I found it took me about an hour per rib & I used duct tape on my pinky to keep from bleeding. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384371#384371 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:41 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: EAA Calendar photo Oscar, He is the one and the same....Photographer and Doctor. He used to work with my wife in the ER at Lakeview Hospital here in Utah. He lives Colorado now. His father has a hangar at our little Skypark airport just North of SLC. Brian SLC-UT -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: EAA Calendar photo --> Gorgeous airplane, superb photography. Speaking of which, can anyone confirm that "our" Jon Apfelbaum (the fellow who shot the photo of Dan and his plane) is the same Jon Apfelbaum who shot the photos that the FAA and NTSB used to positively determine the sequence of events leading up to the fateful crash of Jimmy Leeward's P-51, "Galloping Ghost", at Reno? I've seen parts of the report and analysis and the reconstruction and analysis are very, very detailed. Some of the key elements of the analysis were founded on a series of photos of the airplane as it rolled. The photos showed the elevator trim tab as it fluttered and detached. They also showed Leeward apparently slumped in the cockpit. The photos were credited to Jonathan Apfelbaum. If it's the same Jon Apfelbaum, then it's Dr. Jon Apfelbaum, emergency room physician, who was one of the first medical responders at the site of the crash. You just don't read about those types of actions in the news or on TV. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford/Ashland, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384348#384348 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:08 AM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat On 10/1/2012 8:06 AM, Greg Bacon wrote: > Hey folks! This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing > fabric and began rib stitching. Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib > lacing cord. The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it > difficult (frustrating!!) to dress the knots properly. The thick waxy > coating also makes it sticky to handle. > > Is the flat cord easier to handle? What did you guys use? > > Thanks. > > -- > Greg Bacon > > Greg, I used round cord also. As Kevin stated, the twisting issue goes away with a little practice. I just made sure my final loop was small before I pulled the knot tight. For finger protection I used Johnson & Johnson's adhesive tape. I used the newer easier to tear tape. Getting help during the heat wave we had this summer was difficult, so most of the time I just rib stitched by myself. The hardest part was keeping clear of the the full length cord when I started a run. Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:29 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend Way to go Greg; someone has to take responsibility for introducing young people to Piet open cockpit flying! Keep up the good work. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery From: "kevinpurtee" I have destructively tested my glue joints and woodwork. They're outstanding. If you listen to me on nothing else, listen to me on that subject. My welding's turned out to be pretty darn good, too, in spite of evidence to the contrary:). I apologize for using an attachment but that was the best way to effectively format the information. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384388#384388 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/notes_on_fbg_post_491.pdf ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery From: gboothe5@comcast.net Some can fling it farther...some can fling it higher...but, making it stick, that's the key! Gary from Cool ------Original Message------ From: Kevin Purtee Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery Sent: Oct 1, 2012 8:55 AM I have destructively tested my glue joints and woodwork. They're outstanding. If you listen to me on nothing else, listen to me on that subject. My welding's turned out to be pretty darn good, too, in spite of evidence to the contrary:). I apologize for using an attachment but that was the best way to effectively format the information. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384388#384388 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/notes_on_fbg_post_491.pdf Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend From: gboothe5@comcast.net ------Original Message------ From: Jim Markle Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend Sent: Oct 1, 2012 6:29 AM And I thought all those "first Pietenpol flight" messages were motivating!! I'm going to the shop...... ----Original Message----- From: Greg Cardinal Sent: Sep 30, 2012 10:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice weekend The weather was beautiful in Minnesota this weekend. With the help of fellow Piet pilots Bob Poore and Norm Tesmar we introduced a group from the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority at the Univ. of Minnesota to the joys of Pietenpol flying. Greg Cardinal Sent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:49 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat I have no experience with the round cord, as I stitched with the flat. When it came time to put down the finish tape, I noticed a few stitches did in fact twist. Not wanting to cut and re-do the stitching, I continued with the finish tape.Tthere is no way to tell which stitches lay flat and which may have twisted. I doubt anyone can tell once taped and painted who used round and who used flat. (Just guessing...as like I said, I've not used the round cord.) Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:23 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery From: "K5YAC" Thanks for sharing this information Kevin. Those last couple of photos aren't easy to look at, knowing where they came from... but the details offer a bit of confidence. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384394#384394 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: helspersew@aol.com I used round and had no trouble, except for stepping on it twice and "rrrrr rrrrrippp". But the finish tape covered it OK. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 8:32 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Greg: When I took the EAA Sportair Workshop on fabric covering they let us try both the round and the flat cord just to see which we liked best. Out of a class of 25, as I recall, we all chose the flat as easier to work with. On e of the benefits is that the flat surface is a little easier on your fingers bu t you still needed some finger protection after working for a while. The part of your finger needing protection is the part where the string rubs when you pull t he knots tight. Stinemetze >>> "kevinpurtee" 10/1/2012 8:21 AM >>> il> Greg - I used round and didn't find it particularly difficult to work with with some practice. Have never used the flat cord but I'm guessing it would not be easier and you'd have to make sure there were no twists where it showed on the outside. Others who have used it will correct me as necessary, of course. Congratulations on getting to that step in your process. I found it took m e about an hour per rib & I used duct tape on my pinky to keep from bleeding. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384371#384371 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:29 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat I used the round cord when I rebuilt my PA22/20 back in the '80's. I did not notice any twist and it certainly didn't show through the tape. C ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat I have no experience with the round cord, as I stitched with the flat. When it came time to put down the finish tape, I noticed a few stitches did in fact twist. Not wanting to cut and re-do the stitching, I continued with the finish tape.Tthere is no way to tell which stitches lay flat and which may have twisted. I doubt anyone can tell once taped and painted who used round and who used flat. (Just guessing...as like I said, I've not used the round cord.) Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:44 PM PST US From: Frank Metcalfe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat We used the flat waxed cord on ours. I have used both and I like the flat b etter. I lays low and you just about cant see it under the finish tape. I h ave stiched like 8 planes with the flat and two or three with the round. If you unroll the roun and the flat it will help with the twisting. If you pu ll it off the side it will pertwist the cord and make it harder to work wit h. The waxed works better thea the dry. The dry will break as up pull your knots. The nylon on nylon will cut the cord. --- On Mon, 10/1/12, Greg Bacon wrote: From: Greg Bacon Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Hey folks! -This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric a nd began rib stitching. -Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing cor d. -The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult (frustrat ing!!) to dress the knots properly. -The thick waxy coating also makes it sticky to handle. Is the flat cord easier to handle? -What did you guys use? Thanks. -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: helspersew@aol.com I forgot to mention a very important consideration to this whole rib stitch thing. What kind of cord did Bernard use? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Frank Metcalfe Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 3:43 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat We used the flat waxed cord on ours. I have used both and I like the flat b etter. I lays low and you just about cant see it under the finish tape. I h ave stiched like 8 planes with the flat and two or three with the round. If you unroll the roun and the flat it will help with the twisting. If you pu ll it off the side it will pertwist the cord and make it harder to work wit h. The waxed works better thea the dry. The dry will break as up pull your knots. The nylon on nylon will cut the cord. --- On Mon, 10/1/12, Greg Bacon wrote: From: Greg Bacon Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Hey folks! This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric and began rib stitching. Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing cord. The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult (frustrating!!) to dress the knots properly. The thick waxy coating also makes it sticky to handle. Is the flat cord easier to handle? What did you guys use? Thanks. -- Greg Bacon " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:18 PM PST US From: Frank Metcalfe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Damnedifiknow ............. --- On Mon, 10/1/12, helspersew@aol.com wrote: From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat I forgot to mention a very important-consideration to this whole rib stit ch thing. - What kind of cord did Bernard use? - Dan Helsper Puryear, TN - - -----Original Message----- From: Frank Metcalfe Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 3:43 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat We used the flat waxed cord on ours. I have used both and I like the flat b etter. I lays low and you just about cant see it under the finish tape. I h ave stiched like 8 planes with the flat and two or three with the round. If you unroll the roun and the flat it will help with the twisting. If you pu ll it off the side it will pertwist the cord and make it harder to work wit h. The waxed works better thea the dry. The dry will break as up pull your knots. The nylon on nylon will cut the cord. --- On Mon, 10/1/12, Greg Bacon wrote: From: Greg Bacon Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat Hey folks! -This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric a nd began rib stitching. -Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing cor d. -The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult (frustrat ing!!) to dress the knots properly. -The thick waxy coating also makes it sticky to handle. Is the flat cord easier to handle? -What did you guys use? Thanks. -- Greg Bacon " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: gboothe5@comcast.net SSdtIGdsYWQgRGFuIG1lbnRpb25lZCB0aGF0IGFib3V0IHRyaXBwaW5nIG92ZXIgdGhlIGNob3Jk ISBJJ20ganVzdCBsaWtlIGhpbSENCg0KR2FyeQ0KU2VudCBvbiB0aGUgU3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0 d29yayBmcm9tIG15IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpG cm9tOiBoZWxzcGVyc2V3QGFvbC5jb20NClNlbmRlcjogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2Vy dmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgMSBPY3QgMjAxMiAxNDozNToxNCANClRvOiA8 cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClJlcGx5LVRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTogcmliIGxhY2luZyBj b3JkIC0gcm91bmQgdnMgZmxhdA0KDQoNCkkgdXNlZCByb3VuZCBhbmQgaGFkIG5vIHRyb3VibGUs IGV4Y2VwdCBmb3Igc3RlcHBpbmcgb24gaXQgdHdpY2UgYW5kICJycnJycnJycnJyaXBwcCIuIEJ1 dCB0aGUgZmluaXNoIHRhcGUgY292ZXJlZCBpdCBPSy4NCg0KRGFuIEhlbHNwZXINClB1cnllYXIs IFRODQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IFRPTSBTVElORU1FVFpF IDxUT01TQG1jcGNpdHkuY29tPg0KVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBt YXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU2VudDogTW9uLCBPY3QgMSwgMjAxMiA4OjMyIGFtDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBQ aWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogUmU6IHJpYiBsYWNpbmcgY29yZCAtIHJvdW5kIHZzIGZsYXQNCg0KDQot LT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJUT00gU1RJTkVNRVRaRSIgPFRP TVNAbWNwY2l0eS5jb20+DQoNCkdyZWc6ICBXaGVuIEkgdG9vayB0aGUgRUFBIFNwb3J0YWlyIFdv cmtzaG9wIG9uIGZhYnJpYyBjb3ZlcmluZyB0aGV5IGxldCB1cyB0cnkgDQpib3RoIHRoZSByb3Vu ZCBhbmQgdGhlIGZsYXQgY29yZCBqdXN0IHRvIHNlZSB3aGljaCB3ZSBsaWtlZCBiZXN0LiAgT3V0 IG9mIGEgDQpjbGFzcyBvZiAyNSwgYXMgSSByZWNhbGwsIHdlIGFsbCBjaG9zZSB0aGUgZmxhdCBh cyBlYXNpZXIgdG8gd29yayB3aXRoLiAgT25lIG9mIA0KdGhlIGJlbmVmaXRzIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhl IGZsYXQgc3VyZmFjZSBpcyBhIGxpdHRsZSBlYXNpZXIgb24geW91ciBmaW5nZXJzIGJ1dCB5b3Ug DQpzdGlsbCBuZWVkZWQgc29tZSBmaW5nZXIgcHJvdGVjdGlvbiBhZnRlciB3b3JraW5nIGZvciBh IHdoaWxlLiAgVGhlIHBhcnQgb2YgeW91ciANCmZpbmdlciBuZWVkaW5nIHByb3RlY3Rpb24gaXMg dGhlIHBhcnQgd2hlcmUgdGhlIHN0cmluZyBydWJzIHdoZW4geW91IHB1bGwgdGhlIA0Ka25vdHMg dGlnaHQuDQoNClN0aW5lbWV0emUNCg0KDQo+Pj4gImtldmlucHVydGVlIiA8a2V2aW4ucHVydGVl QHVzLmFybXkubWlsPiAxMC8xLzIwMTIgODoyMSBBTSA+Pj4NCi0tPiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBt ZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogImtldmlucHVydGVlIiA8a2V2aW4ucHVydGVlQHVzLmFybXkubWls Pg0KDQpHcmVnIC0gSSB1c2VkIHJvdW5kIGFuZCBkaWRuJ3QgZmluZCBpdCBwYXJ0aWN1bGFybHkg ZGlmZmljdWx0IHRvIHdvcmsgd2l0aCB3aXRoIA0Kc29tZSBwcmFjdGljZS4gIEhhdmUgbmV2ZXIg dXNlZCB0aGUgZmxhdCBjb3JkIGJ1dCBJJ20gZ3Vlc3NpbmcgaXQgd291bGQgbm90IGJlIA0KZWFz aWVyIGFuZCB5b3UnZCBoYXZlIHRvIG1ha2Ugc3VyZSB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIG5vIHR3aXN0cyB3aGVy ZSBpdCBzaG93ZWQgb24gdGhlIA0Kb3V0c2lkZS4gIE90aGVycyB3aG8gaGF2ZSB1c2VkIGl0IHdp bGwgY29ycmVjdCBtZSBhcyBuZWNlc3NhcnksIG9mIGNvdXJzZS4NCg0KQ29uZ3JhdHVsYXRpb25z IG9uIGdldHRpbmcgdG8gdGhhdCBzdGVwIGluIHlvdXIgcHJvY2Vzcy4gIEkgZm91bmQgaXQgdG9v ayBtZSANCmFib3V0IGFuIGhvdXIgcGVyIHJpYiAmIEkgdXNlZCBkdWN0IHRhcGUgb24gbXkgcGlu a3kgdG8ga2VlcCBmcm9tIGJsZWVkaW5nLg0KDQotLS0tLS0tLQ0KS2V2aW4gJnF1b3Q7QXhlbCZx dW90OyBQdXJ0ZWUNCk5YODk5S1ANCkF1c3Rpbi9TYW4gTWFyY29zLCBUWA0KDQoNCg0KDQpSZWFk IHRoaXMgdG9waWMgb25saW5lIGhlcmU6DQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS92 aWV3dG9waWMucGhwP3A9Mzg0MzcxIzM4NDM3MSANCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K DQoNCg0KDQogDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: helspersew@aol.com See Gary, I told you if you tried hard you could be just like me! You made it! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: gboothe5 Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 4:25 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat I'm glad Dan mentioned that about tripping over the chord! I'm just like hi m! Gary Sent on the Sprint=C2=AE Now Network from my BlackBerry=C2=AE From: helspersew@aol.com Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat I used round and had no trouble, except for stepping on it twice and "=rr rrrrrrrrippp". But the finish tape covered it OK. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 8:32 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat "TOM STINEMETZE" > Greg: When I took the EAA Sportair Workshop on fabric covering they let us try both the round and the flat cord just to see which we liked best. Out of a class of 25, as I recall, we all chose the flat as easier to work with. On e of the benefits is that the flat surface is a little easier on your fingers bu t you still needed some finger protection after working for a while. The part of your finger needing protection is the part where the string rubs when you pull t he knots tight. Stinemetze >>> "kevinpurtee" < kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> 10/1/2012 8:21 AM >>> il> Greg - I used round and didn't find it particularly difficult to work with with some practice. Have never used the flat cord but I'm guessing it would not be easier and you'd have to make sure there were no twists where it showed on the outside. Others who have used it will correct me as necessary, of course. Congratulations on getting to that step in your process. I found it took m e about an hour per rib & I used duct tape on my pinky to keep from bleed ing. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D384371#384371< /a> " target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E=C3=99=C3=8A%=C2=A2=C3=93 M4=C3=91=C3=B6=C5=93x=C2=BA=C2=B8=C5=BE=C2=AEw=C2=B0r=B9=C2=AB =B0=C3 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:45 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fly-in this weekend in PA For those in the area please come join us this weekend for a fun relaxing time in beautiful central PA. This is the 10th annual Fall Fly-in/ Camp-in at the Centre Airpark (N16) in Centre Hall, PA. Free camping Friday and Saturday nights. Saturday breakfast, hay ride to nearby farm for lunch, pot luck dinner, campfire, movies, and more. Sunday fly out to Lock Haven for their breakfast. More scrapbook photos and details at www.eaa1327.org or just give me a call. Malcolm Morrison (814) 769-1941 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:57 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: "tools" I haven't noticed the twisting to be an issue, nor noticable with flat. It's easier to pull on for long lengths of time. The instructions on how to cover a Pitts 12 (the big round engine one) wing says to use round because it's stronger... but I'm not sure I agree with it. I just got done helping rib stitch B-17 control surfaces, they're 250mph stitched every inch surfaces, we used flat. For a Piet, just go with personal preference. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384425#384425 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: "gabenner" Hey guy's! Look on youtube for Pemberton and son's aviation. His wife does a great video using the flat cord and also using the Beech Staggerwing knot. If I remember correct they used the flat for a better finish on the plane because you can flatten it out after it's been tied. Thanks Gary Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384426#384426 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: "Jerry Dotson" helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > I forgot to mention a very important consideration to this whole rib stitch thing. > > What kind of cord did Bernard use? > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > > > -- >From what I gather from reading about Bernard he would have used a good cotton cord with beeswax rubbed on it. That is what my dad used on his building cord used as string lines. He "let" me wax the cord with a hunk of beeswax. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 First flight June 16,2012 Started building July, 2009 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384429#384429 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:24 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat round. Flat didn't exist then > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat > From: jdotson@centurylink.net > Date: Mon=2C 1 Oct 2012 17:36:44 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > .net> > > > helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > > I forgot to mention a very important consideration to this whole rib st itch thing. > > > > What kind of cord did Bernard use? > > > > Dan Helsper > > Puryear=2C TN > > > > > > > > > > -- > > >From what I gather from reading about Bernard he would have used a good cotton cord with beeswax rubbed on it. That is what my dad used on his buil ding cord used as string lines. He "let" me wax the cord with a hunk of bee swax. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker=2C FL 32531 > > First flight June 16=2C2012 > Started building July=2C 2009 > 21"=3B wheels > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384429#384429 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: EAA Calendar photo From: dog67@aol.com Ummm.... yeah Oscar. That's me. But don't tell my mom. She thinks I play piano in a brothel. Actually the Reno pics were mine, and my girlfriend's (now fiance), EA-18G Growler avionics wizard, Julia Kirchenbauer. Her's are the better pics. S he stepped up after the crash at Reno and got involved. The Navy gave her a medal for her actions. Nice to see her recognized. It was a bad day. Thanks for the kind words CHeers Jon -----Original Message----- From: taildrags Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 9:40 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: EAA Calendar photo Gorgeous airplane, superb photography. Speaking of which, can anyone confi rm that "our" Jon Apfelbaum (the fellow who shot the photo of Dan and his plan e) is the same Jon Apfelbaum who shot the photos that the FAA and NTSB used to positively determine the sequence of events leading up to the fateful crash of Jimmy Leeward's P-51, "Galloping Ghost", at Reno? I've seen parts of the report and analysis and the reconstruction and analy sis are very, very detailed. Some of the key elements of the analysis were fou nded on a series of photos of the airplane as it rolled. The photos showed the elevator trim tab as it fluttered and detached. They also showed Leeward apparently slumped in the cockpit. The photos were credited to Jonathan Apfelbaum. If it's the same Jon Apfelbaum, then it's Dr. Jon Apfelbaum, emergency room physician, who was one of the first medical responders at the site of the c rash. You just don't read about those types of actions in the news or on TV. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford/Ashland, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384348#384348 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: Greg Bacon Everyone, thanks for your input on this topic. It made for a fun Monday, and I learned quite a bit more about cord. Guess I'll stick with the round, since I have 490 more yards of it and a roll of the flat is 45 bucks!! Greg Bacon On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Frank Metcalfe wrote: > Damnedifiknow ............. > > > --- On *Mon, 10/1/12, helspersew@aol.com * wrote: > > > From: helspersew@aol.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 1, 2012, 5:00 PM > > > I forgot to mention a very important consideration to this whole rib > stitch thing. > > What kind of cord did Bernard use? > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Metcalfe > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Mon, Oct 1, 2012 3:43 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat > > We used the flat waxed cord on ours. I have used both and I like the > flat better. I lays low and you just about cant see it under the finish > tape. I have stiched like 8 planes with the flat and two or three with the > round. If you unroll the roun and the flat it will help with the twisting. > If you pull it off the side it will pertwist the cord and make it harder to > work with. The waxed works better thea the dry. The dry will break as up > pull your knots. The nylon on nylon will cut the cord. > > --- On *Mon, 10/1/12, Greg Bacon > >* wrote: > > > From: Greg Bacon > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: rib lacing cord - round vs flat > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 1, 2012, 9:06 AM > > Hey folks! This weekend I finished the final shrink on the wing fabric > and began rib stitching. Arbitrarily, I chose to use round rib lacing > cord. The cord seems to be prone to twisting, making it difficult > (frustrating!!) to dress the knots properly. The thick waxy coating also > makes it sticky to handle. > > Is the flat cord easier to handle? What did you guys use? > > Thanks. > > -- > Greg Bacon > > > * > > " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > > " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > > * > > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib lacing cord - round vs flat From: Greg Bacon Yes, that's the knot I'm using. Wendy does a good job teaching it in her video. It's much much easier than the modified "insane" knot. Greg On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:18 PM, gabenner wrote: > > > > Hey guy's! Look on youtube for Pemberton and son's aviation. His wife does > a great video using the flat cord and also using the Beech Staggerwing > knot. If I remember correct they used the flat for a better finish on the > plane because you can flatten it out after it's been tied. > > Thanks > Gary > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384426#384426 > > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery From: "taildrags" I will echo the sentiments of others: those photos, and the information that they contain, were obtained at great cost. However, they -and your comments on them- are invaluable to others. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384440#384440 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: EAA Calendar photo From: "taildrags" Jon: thanks for your contributions to aviation and medicine, and thank your wife for her service as well. And I just got this month's Sport Aviation in today's mail and I see that the NTSB is also blaming re-used fiber insert locknuts for the failure of the trim tab fasteners on Galloping Ghost. I re-use fiber and nylon insert locknuts a couple of times, but if I can turn them with my fingers- no. Apparently the flutter and/or earlier flights were enough to loosen the nuts and contribute to the failure. Side note: the Growler people are not universally liked. My Prowler buds are not happy that illegitimates ("Navy") displaced their role and led to the demise of the Prowler as the spectrum dominators. I am one of those who believes that the Prowler personifies EW and that the Growler is nothing but a glorified Hornet with a couple of iPads in it. do not archive -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384442#384442 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:48 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. 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You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:22 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: EAA Calendar photo From: "jarheadpilot82" Oscar, We all know what Fly_By_Wire is, but we used to call the Prowler "Fly_By_Committee". That poor pilot was outgunned 3 to 1 by those NFO's. We also used to say, "Never trust an NFO that doesn't wear glasses. You don't know what's wrong with him." -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384443#384443 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.