---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/03/12: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:39 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (Jerry Dotson) 2. 05:57 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (TriScout) 3. 05:58 AM - Re: Quick Update on the Plane & Me & Shelley (TOM STINEMETZE) 4. 07:47 AM - GN-1 progress (coxwelljon) 5. 08:11 AM - Re: GN-1 progress () 6. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Quick Update on the Plane & Me & Shelley (Jim Boyer) 7. 08:15 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (skipgadd@earthlink.net) 8. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery (Jim Boyer) 9. 08:29 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (TriScout) 10. 08:39 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (TriScout) 11. 09:12 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (Michael Perez) 12. 09:15 AM - Re: GN-1 progress (Michael Perez) 13. 10:09 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (Jerry Dotson) 14. 11:22 AM - Re: GN-1 progress (coxwelljon) 15. 11:40 AM - Re: Vert-Offset (coxwelljon) 16. 11:51 AM - self-commencers (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 17. 12:01 PM - Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery (aerocarjake) 18. 01:31 PM - Re: self-commencers (aerocarjake) 19. 01:57 PM - Who is in RDU? (Gene Rambo) 20. 02:52 PM - Re: Who is in RDU? (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 21. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Who is in RDU? (Jack@textors.com) 22. 05:28 PM - Rib milestone (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 23. 06:32 PM - Re: Vert-Offset (TriScout) 24. 07:48 PM - Re: Rib milestone (Gary Boothe) 25. 08:00 PM - Vert-Offset (Oscar Zuniga) 26. 09:47 PM - Piet data plates (Oscar Zuniga) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vert-Offset From: "Jerry Dotson" I have about 3/4" in mine and it is just right. I have no trim tab. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 First flight June 16,2012 Started building July, 2009 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384544#384544 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vert-Offset From: "TriScout" That's awsome... your replies give me a nice warm fozzy. ..will see how she handles after the annual. I thought about cracking out the oxy-acetyline torch and tossing together a new set of tailfeathers using 4130, but this should do the trick...or atleast do just that little vertical stab out of 4130 and keep the rest wood. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384548#384548 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:48 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Quick Update on the Plane & Me & Shelley >>Aedan is the flute player on the 35 yard line in this picture. I couldn't be more proud -------- Shelley Tumino IT Girl wife of "Axel" NX899KP>> Shelly: I would not have expected anything less. Enjoy every minute that Aedan is still young enough to be around. They can be even more fun when they start bringing grandbabies home but there's plenty of time for that. I hope he also enjoys getting in some quality building time with his parents. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 progress From: "coxwelljon" Well, my corvair engine is almost buttoned up. I have installed the breather ports from the valve cover and have my Bosch starter & bracket of my own design on and ready to go. I am planning on bringing the engine to CC24 to run on a test stand. I also finished building my air/oil separator yesterday out of a couple of bean cans. It is similar to the Tony Bingelis design. It turned out great, light weight, very cheap (under $10) and looks much like the A.S. $250 dollar model. I had a great conversation with William Wynn last evening and I think I have all bases covered. Now the biggest problem is getting it into the back of my Dodge Caliber for the trip to SC and resetting the head lights to compensate for the extra weight. I am getting excited about the possibility of running the engine. This will be my second Corvair College and they are great. I highly recommend them to anyone who is building a corvair engine or serious about doing so. There is so much to be gained from WW, his staff or volunteers, and other builders. When I return from CC24 the engine will go on the airframe to check weight and balance, then off again so I can begin covering. I have the fuselage and one wing yet to cover. Jon Coxwell, (100 hp - GN-1 Aircamper, really a Pietenpol) Remsen, NY coxwelljon@frontiernet.net -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384558#384558 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:40 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 progress Now listen to this guy (he is thinking of all the other drivers on the pike ( He is ) resetting the head lights to compensate for the extra weight. he gets a star in my book one of my bigest bug at night is the bright lights on cars as they blind you THANKS JOHN 73 w8zrz -----Original Message----- From: coxwelljon Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 progress Well, my corvair engine is almost buttoned up. I have installed the breather ports from the valve cover and have my Bosch starter & bracket of my own design on and ready to go. I am planning on bringing the engine to CC24 to run on a test stand. I also finished building my air/oil separator yesterday out of a couple of bean cans. It is similar to the Tony Bingelis design. It turned out great, light weight, very cheap (under $10) and looks much like the A.S. $250 dollar model. I had a great conversation with William Wynn last evening and I think I have all bases covered. Now the biggest problem is getting it into the back of my Dodge Caliber for the trip to SC and resetting the head lights to compensate for the extra weight. I am getting excited about the possibility of running the engine. This will be my second Corvair College and they are great. I highly recommend them to anyone who is building a corvair engine or serious about doing so. There is so much to be gained from WW, his staff or volunteers, and other builders. When I return from CC24 the engine will go on the airframe to check weight and balance, then off again so I can begin covering. I have the fuselage and one wing yet to cover. Jon Coxwell, (100 hp - GN-1 Aircamper, really a Pietenpol) Remsen, NY coxwelljon@frontiernet.net -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384558#384558 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:36 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Quick Update on the Plane & Me & Shelley Shelley glad to see Aedan is playing in the band. I also played all through high school and am still playing in a local community band. Its a great way to enjoy music all through your life. I play the euphonium (commonly called Baritone even though that is not correct). Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:56 AM PST US From: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Vert-Offset Larry, When I bought Felix the GN1 it had almost no offset and a steel trim tab bent almost 90 degrees, and it required quite a bit of right rudder. I replaced the trim tab with an alum tab bent about 40 degrees, I belive much more than 40 does no good. I still had to fly with right rudder. The next move was to offset the vert stab 7/8". Still had to hold right rudder. I wound up making the right rudder cable shorter, to fool my feet into thinking they are holding neutral rudder. The combination of the 3 adjustments did the trick, Felix flys great. All Piets and Gregas fly a little different, your GN1 may not need as many adjustments, do any changes in small steps and have fun. Skip > [Original Message] > From: TriScout > To: > Date: 10/2/2012 1:07:46 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vert-Offset > > > Hi Folks.. > > I have a question for you Piet guru's... > > I've been flying my A65 powered GN-1 for over a yr now. I am not 100% comfortable w/having to put a big trim tab on the rudder..even in cruise flight. I even built a rear view mirrow to watch it while trundling along enroute to the local cafe's. That little wood fixed vert-stab can't be all that strong w/lots of rudder in at climb/some at cruise... > > ..then I recently watched Waldo Pfeiffer and noticed the scene they filmed flying down Main St in Elgin, texas back during filming in '74...noticing the huge offset in the Jenny stab to accomodate the 200hp Hisso's they used in place of the weak ol' 90 horse OX-Fivers..(the scene where Axel is screaming; "Marybeth!"..... "Marybethhh!") > > 1. How much is the right amount of offset for the A65? > 2. Anyone else have this concern? > > I'm just eyeballing it, figuring any offset is better than none, but don't want too much either. I am starting with just over a half inch (9/16").. > > I attached a short vid. Somewhere about mid-vid, I shine camera into mirror to watch it, but the video appears to show less rudder than it seems to require in real life. (rudder deflection not as pronounced in real life). Will attempt foto attachment as well... Thx in advance, Larry > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SBy6z9W5wE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384480#384480 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/cc_843.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/ee_955.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/bb_531.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dd_190.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/axl_895.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:10 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery Hi Shelley, Really glad to see you are both making great progress and Kevin is improving physically. It sounds like everything is in good hands. Hope to see you both next year in Brodhead. All my best, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vert-Offset From: "TriScout" Reading Ben and Jerry's replies to my post really helps by interpolation .. Ben has an A65-8 like I do, has 1/2" displacement = not quite enough Jerry has an 0-235 with 3/4" displacement = perfect/no trim tab So I figure my A65-8 and 9/16" displacement should = about right Will be interesting to see how it pans out in flight.. Yet another example as to how helpful/informative/valuable this forum is :-) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384566#384566 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vert-Offset From: "TriScout" Skip... Yes I had noticed my bigger trim tab ran out of effectiveness after about a 45 deg bend, exactly as you write. I'll be quite happy w/a happy medium. In gusty turbulence with that rear view mirror I installed, I do feel concerned in large yaw's when I see that little vert-stab deflecting left and right. Then I have to realize that this airframevdoes have 700hrs, so I suppose that little vertical stab did prove itself. I'm probably over thinking it .... Like whole global warming thing... Thank you for replying... Very helpful stuff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384567#384567 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:52 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vert-Offset I am curious... to all you guys using rudder trim tabs and/or vert. stab. offset, any idea how much, if any, engine mount offset you may have?- I wonder... if there isn't any, or maybe very little, that may be leading to the need for trim tabs and vert. stab. offset. I put in some right thrust in the engine mount upon construction...wonder i f I have enough. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:00 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 progress I would be interested in seeing your started bracket and air/oil separator. I like seeing what others are designing/custom building on their own. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vert-Offset From: "Jerry Dotson" My O-235 is straight........zero offset with crankshaft center line even with the top edge of the longeron. Triscout if you have brace cables on the vert fin I see no reason why it would not be strong aplenty. I flew mine just an hour ago and at cruise (75 mph) it flew feet off for 30 seconds or so. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 First flight June 16,2012 Started building July, 2009 21" wheels Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384572#384572 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 progress From: "coxwelljon" Michael, I will take some pictures and post them when I get a chance. The air oil separator is a pretty straight forward adaptation from a Tony Bengelis sketch that I found on the net. I just used the materials I had on hand, literally 2 Goya black bean cans (the ones with the rounded bottoms so they stack), a 12" piece of 1/2" rigid copper tubing, a piece of 3/8" soft copper tubing, a 1/4" fender washer and a scrap 1/4" carriage bolt. I had to buy an assortment of large o-rings for $2 and cut one down to size. The inside element is window screen and 2 copper Chore Girls. I have to admit that it took several hours of scratching my head and looking on the internet to figure it out and then I had to learn how to use some silver solder I had on very thin material. Time will tell if it is an effective design but unless there is something very different inside the Aircraft Spruce model this should work the same. My starter was the result of purchasing a used VW geared starter that had the right size pinion gear and turned counter clockwise. Again I just used material out of my scrap bin. The whole assembly is a little heavier than WW's. I think his starter weight is about 8 lbs and I would guess his aluminum brackets are about 8 to 10 oz. My completed assemble is 10.25 lbs and has a base made 3/16" bent steel plate. It is quite rigid and easily adjusted with shims under the anchor bolts. I did use a lighter top cover which gains me back a 1/2 lb. I used the lighter cover only because it came with my project. When I get the pictures It will tell what the story. -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384573#384573 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vert-Offset From: "coxwelljon" The DAR in this area told me that as a rule of thumb if you sight along the axis of the vert stab the line should hit about 25% in from the longeron at the firewall. Right or left depending on whether you are using a clockwise or counter clock wise turning engine. This guy works a lot on cubs and short wing pipers, but remember this is just a rule of thumb and a place to start. The vert. stab on the GN-1 is well braced close to the hinge post. I suspect it will take a lot more horizontal force than you think. Jon Coxwell Corvair powered GN-1 -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384574#384574 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:43 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: self-commencers Wow, you guys with planes that have self-commencers are something else. Starters, batteries, man. You mean you can actually sit IN your cockpit and start your engines? Whew...what the heck will they think of next? ! Used to hand prop a Kinner on a friend's Fleet like this Ryan has...those impulse mags were NICE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xobamf7EY0&feature=related ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Notes on FBG Post-Accident Repair & Recovery From: "aerocarjake" Ditto other folks comments - thanks Kevin. I will be paying more attention to my fuel system because of it all. Do not archive..... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384576#384576 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: self-commencers From: "aerocarjake" gotta yell "clear prop" instead of "contact"... (ha!) do not archive.... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384582#384582 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:40 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who is in RDU? Other than Jack Phillips used to be?? I get into RDU at 10am tomorrow and hang around all day. Anyone close and free?? Gene On Oct 3, 2012, at 4:31 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > gotta yell "clear prop" instead of "contact"... (ha!) > > do not archive.... > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384582#384582 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Who is in RDU? From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Check out Chuck Borsuk's project! http://pietenpol-989cb.blogspot.com -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384588#384588 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Who is in RDU? From: "Jack@textors.com" Chuck looks outstanding! Thanks for sharing Curt! Jack Textor Sent from my iPad Do not archive On Oct 3, 2012, at 4:52 PM, "curtdm(at)gmail.com" wrote: > > Check out Chuck Borsuk's project! > > http://pietenpol-989cb.blogspot.com > > -------- > Curt Merdan > Flower Mound, TX > > Do Not Archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384588#384588 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib milestone From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Gary asked that I post for verification (or public humiliation)as to the number of ribs I've built. Sorry for the big photo, but it makes it easier to count. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384596#384596 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_890.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vert-Offset From: "TriScout" Speedbrake- No engine mount offset Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384598#384598 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:30 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rib milestone Sure 'nuff. Congratulations! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtdm(at)gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib milestone --> Gary asked that I post for verification (or public humiliation)as to the number of ribs I've built. Sorry for the big photo, but it makes it easier to count. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384596#384596 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_890.jpg ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:34 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vert-Offset I'll pass along my experience with vertical stabilizer offset. Scout origi nally had an A65=2C no vertical stabilizer offset=2C and had a bent metal r udder trim tab on it. The airplane required feet on the rudder bar and a l ittle pressure to keep it straight at all times=2C and would yaw in straigh t & level flight if feet were taken off the bar. The A75 made no detectabl e difference in rudder demand. First attempt at deleting the rudder trim tab was to offset the VS just abo ut the amount most of the others are talking about... 1/2". It was about a ll the offset I felt comfortable putting in=2C because the rear spar remain s fixed and you're essentially torquing the VS to move the leading edge of it over. Test-flew=2C it helped but still required rudder. Next attempt was to offset the engine thrustline. Offset was essentially z ero when we started=2C and is now about 2 degrees right and I have no bent metal rudder trim tab anymore. The airplane is very nearly a feet-flat-on- the-floor flyer in cruise now. I could keep tweaking it with a tad more en gine thrustline offset. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Medford=2C OR ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:17 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet data plates Folks=3B I've had a most delightful email exchange with British Pieter Gerry Holland over the last couple of months. It started out with the beautiful cooling eyebrows on his A75 since the eyebrows on Scout are presently sporting one unresolved fatigue crack on a mounting tab and another stop-drilled fatigu e crack on the other side. Gerry pointed me to the source for his authenti c and sturdy eyebrows and I have a set ordered and on their way=2C which sh ould put an end to my cracks for good. In the process of sorting out the eyebrows=2C Gerry mentioned how he'd like to see a nice set of oval brass plates riveted to the (polished aluminum) eyebrows on his airplane. This led me to researching what it would take to make small oval "Air Camper" brass plates for mounting here or there on ou r Piets. I've worked out all of the details and artwork with Denny Demeter at AvGrafix and he is currently producing them for me. As soon as I get a sample=2C I'll post photos and pricing and see if anyone is interested in buying them=2C especially since I've ordered a production run of them =3Bo) They are not data plates... they are simply oval brass accent plates that identify the aircraft as an Air Camper. Gerry gets the first one of them =2C and he'll get the second one of the pair when he brings me a pint of hi s favorite stout or ale when I'm in the UK =3Bo) I still have the larger brass data plates available and since I was getting down to my last dozen of them=2C I've ordered a new production run of thos e as well. It looks like Air Campers will continue to be built for years t o come=2C so I'd better have enough on hand to keep them on the market. Sa me price as always=2C ten bucks=2C and information on the data plates is av ailable at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dataplate.html . The one that I have installed in the front cockpit of Scout has developed a very nice pa tina and adds a nice touch to the airplane. I'm undecided whether to insta ll a pair of the new=2C smaller oval Air Camper plates to each of the new c ooling eyebrows on my airplane=2C but I might. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Medford=2C Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.