---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/16/12: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:57 AM - Re: New Pietenpol Builder (jarheadpilot82) 2. 09:47 AM - Re: New Pietenpol Builder (tools) 3. 10:02 AM - Re: which Bingelis book (Barry Davis) 4. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: New Pietenpol Builder (ellery voge) 5. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: New Pietenpol Builder (Ken Bickers) 6. 12:58 PM - reducing the wingspan (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 7. 12:59 PM - Barry Davis fantastic quote (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 8. 05:12 PM - Re: reducing the wingspan (Allan Macklem) 9. 07:34 PM - I flew Re-PIET!!! (Douwe Blumberg) 10. 07:46 PM - Re: I flew Re-PIET!!! (Dave and Connie) 11. 07:57 PM - Re: I flew Re-PIET!!! (Andre Abreu) 12. 08:02 PM - Re: I flew Re-PIET!!! (Gary Boothe) 13. 08:52 PM - Re: nose fuel tank supports (taildrags) 14. 09:35 PM - Re: I flew Re-PIET!!! (K5YAC) 15. 09:42 PM - re piet (Dick N) 16. 10:05 PM - Re: I flew Re-PIET!!! (aerocarjake) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Pietenpol Builder From: "jarheadpilot82" How big a passenger? Are you sure the Pietenpol is for you? Build it light, and keep your passengers small. To modify the airplane is to be your own aircraft designer. Just my $.02 -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385434#385434 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Pietenpol Builder From: "tools" There's some small changes that are common enough that they are well vetted and you're not really just starting over... such as... A little more room between the wing and fuse. A little wider. The long fuse version and of course some more horse power. However, if you want something that's a little roomier and can routinely carry passengers along, you might seriously consider a larger plane. A Bakeng Deuce is a 2 hole open cockpit parasol for example. If you just really really like the lines of a Piet, I'd consider the Bakeng and changing the shape of tail feathers, cowling, etc rather than changing the Piet too much. This from someone who picked a Piet so he wouldn't have to do ANY designing himself! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385469#385469 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:30 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: which Bingelis book Unless you are an experienced builder, then I would buy all 4. If you are an experienced builder, then I would buy all 4. Barry D From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 12:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: which Bingelis book I'm ordering one of the construction technique books by Bingelis but I see there are two which don't seem to be terribly different... Construction Techniques and then there is Sport Plane Builder. Which one is preferred for the subject matters I'll need working on the Piet. Maybe it's best to buy both?? Tom B. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:23 AM PST US From: ellery voge Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Pietenpol Builder Has anyone tried reducing the wing span? Curious to know. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Pietenpol Builder > From: n0kkj@yahoo.com > Date: Tue=2C 16 Oct 2012 09:47:00 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > There's some small changes that are common enough that they are well vett ed and you're not really just starting over... such as... > > A little more room between the wing and fuse. A little wider. The long fuse version and of course some more horse power. > > However=2C if you want something that's a little roomier and can routinel y carry passengers along=2C you might seriously consider a larger plane. A Bakeng Deuce is a 2 hole open cockpit parasol for example. > > If you just really really like the lines of a Piet=2C I'd consider the Ba keng and changing the shape of tail feathers=2C cowling=2C etc rather than changing the Piet too much. > > This from someone who picked a Piet so he wouldn't have to do ANY designi ng himself! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385469#385469 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Pietenpol Builder From: Ken Bickers I'm sure if it can be done, it has been done. I've never heard of anyone thinking that a shorter wing span on a Pietenpol was a good idea. Many people have advocated lengthening the wing span. I lengthened mine by a total of 18 inches, hopefully to give somewhat better climb performance at the high density altitudes where I'm located. Not flying yet, but it looks nice in the hangar. On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:50 AM, ellery voge wrote: > Has anyone tried reducing the wing span? Curious to know. > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Pietenpol Builder >> From: n0kkj@yahoo.com >> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:47:00 -0700 >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >> There's some small changes that are common enough that they are well >> vetted and you're not really just starting over... such as... >> >> A little more room between the wing and fuse. A little wider. The long >> fuse version and of course some more horse power. >> >> However, if you want something that's a little roomier and can routinely >> carry passengers along, you might seriously consider a larger plane. A >> Bakeng Deuce is a 2 hole open cockpit parasol for example. >> >> If you just really really like the lines of a Piet, I'd consider the >> Bakeng and changing the shape of tail feathers, cowling, etc rather than >> changing the Piet too much. >> >> This from someone who picked a Piet so he wouldn't have to do ANY >> designing himself! >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385469#385469 >> > ===================== > >====== >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:32 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: reducing the wingspan Ellery, Welcome to the group and glad you're building a Pietenpol. This is a goo d group of folks and there are some very talented and extremely well versed and knowledgeable people on the list and most of them are even housebroken:). ! I've never heard of anyone reducing the wingspan on a Piet but rather makin g it longer. Most low power (65 horse Continentals and such) planes of the 1940's like Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, Cubs, and Champs had win gspans in the 35' range. The Pietenpols wing is only 29' so making it a little longer is goodness in that you will be able to lift more weight and that is important if you're on a shorter field or high elevation...even on hotter days it wil l help you. I built my Pietenpol with the standard 29' wing but if I had to do it over again I might make my center section wider as Jack Phillips did and if not mistaken Bill Rewey-this gives you more wing area, greater l ifting capability. I wouldn't hesitate to add 2-3 feet to the overall length of my wing. Whatever you built, Piet or other design, try your best to keep it light an d it will then be a GOOD performing airplane. Most of us are not 150 pound pilots like Bernard Pietenpol was so if you are heavier and y ou want to take a full-size adult for a Piet ride your best bet is too keep the plane light when building. Nothing is more frightening than wondering if you're going to be able to cl imb high enough on a hot day with a passenger to clear the tops of telephone wires or tree tops. Every extra pound you add is on e you'll have to take for each ride also. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:58 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Barry Davis fantastic quote Okay Barry-you are now my new hero. This is the best post I've seen on the list ever:)! In regard to the Tony Bingelis book series Barry writes: Unless you are an experienced builder, then I would buy all 4. If you are a n experienced builder, then I would buy all 4. Barry D ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:32 PM PST US From: "Allan Macklem" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: reducing the wingspan I'm interested in the pros and cons of lengthening the wings. I understand more wing area = more lift. What are the negatives (decrease in speed?) and how great are they? Widening the center wing section must have is limitation in relationship to the width of the fuselage. What width center section did Jack and Bill achieve? Can the wing tips also be extended 12-18" on each side? Seems like this would be about two ribs per wing. If the wings are lengthened what are the major changes needed to support the longer wings? Allan Macklem From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: reducing the wingspan Ellery, Welcome to the group and glad you're building a Pietenpol. This is a good group of folks and there are some very talented and extremely well versed and knowledgeable people on the list and most of them are even housebrokenJ. ! I've never heard of anyone reducing the wingspan on a Piet but rather making it longer. Most low power (65 horse Continentals and such) planes of the 1940's like Taylorcrafts, Luscombes, Cubs, and Champs had wingspans in the 35' range. The Pietenpols wing is only 29' so making it a little longer is goodness in that you will be able to lift more weight and that is important if you're on a shorter field or high elevation.even on hotter days it will help you. I built my Pietenpol with the standard 29' wing but if I had to do it over again I might make my center section wider as Jack Phillips did and if not mistaken Bill Rewey-this gives you more wing area, greater lifting capability. I wouldn't hesitate to add 2-3 feet to the overall length of my wing. Whatever you built, Piet or other design, try your best to keep it light and it will then be a GOOD performing airplane. Most of us are not 150 pound pilots like Bernard Pietenpol was so if you are heavier and you want to take a full-size adult for a Piet ride your best bet is too keep the plane light when building. Nothing is more frightening than wondering if you're going to be able to climb high enough on a hot day with a passenger to clear the tops of telephone wires or tree tops. Every extra pound you add is one you'll have to take for each ride also. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:50 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: I flew Re-PIET!!! Well after ten years of work and a lifetime of daydreams, I flew "Re-PIET" today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Flew from the asphalt runway near my house to a grass paradise an hour away where she'll stay until I'm ready for pavement. The flight could NOT have been better in any possible way. Engine temps were good, (C-90 with Cloud Car prop) and she climbed very strongly (66 degree day with 12 gallons and 160 lb Douwe), about like the 85 horse Cub I've been practicing in with two people aboard, but I didn't have a VSI so I'm not sure. GPS said cruise was 75, but there was a bit of a tailwind, so it was probably more like 70. Flew totally hands off, seriously! The almost 1" stab offset is perfect, didn't need to touch the rudder to keep her straight and the servo elevator trim worked beautifully, just push the switch to get whatever trim you want. Was very pleased with that. Practiced some stalls at about 1,000rpm like landing and almost couldn't get her to break, she just mushed along. Power off was straight ahead and clean. Smoke system worked great, though I'll have to add some longer "downtubes" off my long exhaust to keep unburnt oil off the tail. Controls were super light and pleasant in all regards. Much nicer than the cub I've been flying. Landing was a non-event, except that the sun was directly in my eyes as it was evening and the refraction through the two plexi windscreens precluded ANY forward vis, plus the runway slants east so it was in the dark and I could NOT see the runway. Had to go around once, then really had to feel my way down, but it ended very nicely and she just settled down and tracked very straight. I didn't think I'd need goggles. I was wrong, I need them unless I sit right up behind the windscreen. Thanks all for your help, advice and encouragement through the years. Too many to name, but I am hugely indebted to you all. Just a lovely, lovely airplane in all regards... Keep building gents, IT'S WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Douwe ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:15 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I flew Re-PIET!!! That grin says it all. Congratulations. Dave ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:32 PM PST US From: Andre Abreu Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I flew Re-PIET!!! Douwe, Wow... congratulation.- I have not experience building a Piet ... other t han having the privileged to get my ticket in it.....- Great airplane in my estimation.- It must have been a fantastic journey building a Piet.- I only dream to build on a flying machine.- Hats off to you and the gent leman.. God Rest His Soul... that build the "JOY" that I am so lucky to fly whenever I want and the weather permits. Andy --- On Tue, 10/16/12, Douwe Blumberg wrote: From: Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: I flew Re-PIET!!! Well after ten years of work and a lifetime of daydreams, I flew "Re-PIET" today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Flew from the asphalt runway near my house to a grass paradise an hour away where she'll stay until I'm ready for pavement. The flight could NOT have been better in any possible way.- Engine temps were good, (C-90 with Cloud Car prop) and she climbed very strongly (66 degree day with 12 gallons and 160 lb Douwe), about like the 85 horse Cub I've been practicing in with two people aboard, but I didn't have a VSI so I'm not sure. GPS said cruise was 75, but there was a bit of a tailwind, so it was probably more like 70. Flew totally hands off, seriously!- The almost 1" stab offset is perfect, didn't need to touch the rudder to keep her straight and the servo elevator trim worked beautifully, just push the switch to get whatever trim you want .. Was very pleased with that. Practiced some stalls at about 1,000rpm like landing and almost couldn't ge t her to break, she just mushed along.- Power off was straight ahead and clean. Smoke system worked great, though I'll have to add some longer "downtubes" off my long exhaust to keep unburnt oil off the tail. Controls were super light and pleasant in all regards.- Much nicer than t he cub I've been flying. Landing was a non-event, except that the sun was directly in my eyes as it was evening and the refraction through the two plexi windscreens precluded ANY forward vis, plus the runway slants east so it was in the dark and I could NOT see the runway.- Had to go around once, then really had to feel my way down, but it ended very nicely and she just settled down and tracked very straight. I didn't think I'd need goggles.- I was wrong, I need them unless I sit right up behind the windscreen. Thanks all for your help, advice and encouragement through the years.- To o many to name, but I am hugely indebted to you all. Just a lovely, lovely airplane in all regards... Keep building gents, IT'S WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:49 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I flew Re-PIET!!! Douwe, You are a Pietenpol ICON!! and a real role model! Many happy landings... Oh...Congratulations on making the newsletter front page! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I flew Re-PIET!!! Well after ten years of work and a lifetime of daydreams, I flew "Re-PIET" today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Flew from the asphalt runway near my house to a grass paradise an hour away where she'll stay until I'm ready for pavement. The flight could NOT have been better in any possible way. Engine temps were good, (C-90 with Cloud Car prop) and she climbed very strongly (66 degree day with 12 gallons and 160 lb Douwe), about like the 85 horse Cub I've been practicing in with two people aboard, but I didn't have a VSI so I'm not sure. GPS said cruise was 75, but there was a bit of a tailwind, so it was probably more like 70. Flew totally hands off, seriously! The almost 1" stab offset is perfect, didn't need to touch the rudder to keep her straight and the servo elevator trim worked beautifully, just push the switch to get whatever trim you want. Was very pleased with that. Practiced some stalls at about 1,000rpm like landing and almost couldn't get her to break, she just mushed along. Power off was straight ahead and clean. Smoke system worked great, though I'll have to add some longer "downtubes" off my long exhaust to keep unburnt oil off the tail. Controls were super light and pleasant in all regards. Much nicer than the cub I've been flying. Landing was a non-event, except that the sun was directly in my eyes as it was evening and the refraction through the two plexi windscreens precluded ANY forward vis, plus the runway slants east so it was in the dark and I could NOT see the runway. Had to go around once, then really had to feel my way down, but it ended very nicely and she just settled down and tracked very straight. I didn't think I'd need goggles. I was wrong, I need them unless I sit right up behind the windscreen. Thanks all for your help, advice and encouragement through the years. Too many to name, but I am hugely indebted to you all. Just a lovely, lovely airplane in all regards... Keep building gents, IT'S WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Douwe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: nose fuel tank supports From: "taildrags" And glean what you may from the photos of the tank and supports on "Scout", here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/fueltank.html -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385533#385533 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I flew Re-PIET!!! From: "K5YAC" Great report Douwe! I can't wait to experience your excitement. Hope mine flies as nice as yours. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385535#385535 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:43 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Pietenpol-List: re piet Congratulations Douwe, You really need to get some kind of endurance award for that project. I really hope things go smoothly for you. Now you need to make it to Brodhead next year. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I flew Re-PIET!!! From: "aerocarjake" VERY inspiring, thanks.... awesome.......!! Do not archive -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385537#385537 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.