Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:08 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (nightmare)
2. 08:41 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB)
3. 08:45 AM - can a piet legally tow gliders (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 08:55 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (Greg Bacon)
5. 08:56 AM - Re: Going Flying (Michael Groah)
6. 08:59 AM - Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 (Greg Bacon)
7. 11:02 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (nightmare)
8. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (Greg Bacon)
9. 01:02 PM - Re: Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 (taildrags)
10. 01:09 PM - Deanie Montgomery (taildrags)
11. 01:41 PM - there's trouble in paradise (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
12. 01:57 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (Ken Bickers)
13. 02:19 PM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (nightmare)
14. 02:52 PM - Re: Going Flying (Jim Boyer)
15. 03:36 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (Jack Phillips)
16. 03:37 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (helspersew@aol.com)
17. 03:39 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (helspersew@aol.com)
18. 06:48 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (Ryan Mueller)
19. 07:34 PM - Re: Deanie Montgomery (biplan53)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: can a piet legally tow gliders |
Jerry; It looks like that limitation #20 is part of order #8130.2g . wow what a
pain trying to dig this info up. It does look like i still have some hope though,
#27 of order 8130.2g basically states that your local fsdo can revise those
operating limitations. Have called 4 different fsdo's but seems like they are
all on a tuesday-friday schedule. thanks; Paul
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385788#385788
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: can a piet legally tow gliders |
My buddy put a tow hook on his Champ. He uses it where he has to hand prop by himself.
He puts a peice of 550 cord on a tiedown and hooks it to the tow hook.
then after hand propping he pulls the chocks and gets in. when ready he releases
the tow hook and departs.
Blue skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Gmail <gbacon67@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: can a piet legally tow gliders
>
> Mtn Piet has a tow hook, but I'm not sure if John Dilatush was serious about
using it. Perhaps he added the hook as more of a
> statement of power, referring to the 135 hp Turbo Subaru. Sorry
> Paul, I don't know anything about towing regulations.
>
> Greg Bacon
> Garratt Callahan
> gbacon@g-c.com
> (573)489-4795
>
> On Oct 21, 2012, at 11:55 AM, "nightmare" < wrote:
>
> >
> > I believe "mountain Piet" has or is towing gliders, but can't seem to find a contact for him. my situation may be a bit different though. I'm having so much fun building my Piet, I thought it would be cool to also build a ULF-1. http://www.eel.de/english/home_en.htm its a wood and fabric plans built ultralight glider that is launched via tow or foot launch. This means my homebuilt would be towing a homebuilt. the glider meets the ultralight rule of 150 lbs or less. so i imagine i would have the option to "N" number it or not.
> > I also fly hang gliders, and our hang gliders are legally towed by experimental
LSA (E-LSA), but not sure about experimental-amateur built.
> > 91.319 Aircraft having experimental
> > certificates: Operating limitations.
> > (a) No person may operate an aircraft
> > that has an experimental certificate
> > (1) For other than the purpose for
> > which the certificate was issued;
> > does the above mean that upon my piet being certified, i should have it stipulated
that it will be operated for towing gliders?
> > confusing subject. any one have any answers? thanks; Paul
> >
> > --------
> > Paul Donahue
> > Started 8-3-12
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385729#385729
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | can a piet legally tow gliders |
Greg: some people install tow hooks on their airplanes to hold it in place
while hand-propping the airplane solo. However=2C I believe Mountain Piet
had a regular starter on the Subaru=2C so the hold-down would not have been
needed and it must have been intended for towing. With the turbo Soob=2C
it probably had enough power.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: can a piet legally tow gliders |
Yes, Oscar, Mtn Piet has a starter. I'll get in touch with John. He may
be able to shed some light on the towing regs issue.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Greg: some people install tow hooks on their airplanes to hold it in place
> while hand-propping the airplane solo. However, I believe Mountain Piet
> had a regular starter on the Subaru, so the hold-down would not have been
> needed and it must have been intended for towing. With the turbo Soob, it
> probably had enough power.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Going Flying |
Ok.. well the storm that kept Gary on the ground yesterday hadn't reached s
outh to me yet so I got to go up for a couple of flights.=C2- My morning
flight was a little bumpy as things were starting to warm up ( I could see
dust devils forming in the fields surrounding me), but my evening flight wa
s smooth as could be. It was just beautiful and I didn't want to come back
down but the sun was setting so I didn't' have much of a choice.=C2- I ma
de a respectable wheel landing, put the plane away and was able to log 1.9
hours for the day.=C2- I'm now up to 14.3 hours of flying in the plane.
=C2- =0AThe attached photos were taken on my morning flight ( I didn't' n
eed the jacket on the evening flight).=C2- Nothing special with the photo
s, just a couple quick shots, like Gary I was more focused on flying the pl
ane than taking good pictures.=C2- =0A=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comca
st.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, October 21, 201
2 11:34 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Going Flying=0A =0A=0ASorry, Fred
. My bad, of course. In my defense, my new prop had me a bit puzzled, and I
really only had time for one pass around the pattern. Camera was sitting r
ight there beside me. As a consolation, I offer this pic, taken today, but
too breezy to fly=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AGary Boothe=0ANX308MB=0A=C2
-=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpo
l-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jane and Fred=0ASent: Sunday, Oct
ober 21, 2012 5:44 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenp
ol-List: Going Flying=0A=C2-=0AI hate when guys say they're going flying,
then they go flying and then they don't post any pictures!=C2- ; )=0A=C2
-=0AJust kidding...kind of...=0A=C2-=0ABest regards,=0AFred B.=0ALa Cro
sse, WI=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Li
st=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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Subject: | Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 |
Gang,
All that is left of the fabric work is leading edge tape and drain
grommets. Fabric sealing and paint is next. My hat is off to all of you
that have built piets from scratch. I'm humbled by the amount of work and
time that has gone into just the center section and one wing panel. Holy
cow!!!!
do not archive
--
Greg Bacon
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: can a piet legally tow gliders |
just got off phone with EAA. looks like there are two possible ways to do it.
1. a DAR upon certification can omit that limitation, or add the words "for hire",
so that i can still do it. hit or miss if they would do it, but was told i
could call every DAR until i find one who is willing, then bring it to his area
for the inspection. then bring it home and i would be allowed to do it anywhere
in the country.
2. or after certification, find any FSDO that would change the limitation via a
LODA (letter of deviation authority). then i could still tow anywhere in the
country.
I have no idea how realistic it is to get this accomplished, but it sure would
be cool towing a glider from florida to broadhead some day. i would put my
girlfriend in the front and the wife in the glider. Ha!
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385796#385796
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: can a piet legally tow gliders |
I just got off the phone with John Dilatush, builder of Mtn Piet. He
installed a tow hook with the intent of towing glider planes for a couple
friends. After a conversation with a tow plane pilot, he abandoned the
idea. He never installed the cable and release mechanism. The tow plane
pilot was concerned about the weight ratio between the piet tow plane and
the glider. Essentially, it's dangerous to tow with a plane lighter than
the glider, even if the thrust is sufficient. It may work, but leave too
little room for error. So, Paul, you may want to research this aspect
before proceeding.
Greg
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:02 PM, nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>wrote:
> pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
>
> just got off phone with EAA. looks like there are two possible ways to do
> it.
> 1. a DAR upon certification can omit that limitation, or add the words
> "for hire", so that i can still do it. hit or miss if they would do it, but
> was told i could call every DAR until i find one who is willing, then bring
> it to his area for the inspection. then bring it home and i would be
> allowed to do it anywhere in the country.
> 2. or after certification, find any FSDO that would change the limitation
> via a LODA (letter of deviation authority). then i could still tow anywhere
> in the country.
> I have no idea how realistic it is to get this accomplished, but it
> sure would be cool towing a glider from florida to broadhead some day. i
> would put my girlfriend in the front and the wife in the glider. Ha!
>
> --------
> Paul Donahue
> Started 8-3-12
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385796#385796
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 |
Greg: there is one thing that I have found and that is, whether you build one from
scratch or just make some minor mods or repairs, the feeling when you hop
in and get it in the air again is the same. You'll see ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385805#385805
Message 10
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Subject: | Deanie Montgomery |
Time marches on. Some of you may recall that I have had a fellow named Deanie
Montgomery overhaul several Stromberg carbs for me. Reading the list of names
in "Gone West" in the most recent issue of Sport Aviation, I saw Deanie's name
there and just like that, he's gone. Last time I spoke with him on the phone
(I don't think he ever had email) he mentioned that he was starting work on
an Air Camper and a Corvair for it.
Here's an obit from the Corsicana, Texas "Daily Sun":
http://corsicanadailysun.com/obituaries/x1395116878/Deanie-Montgomery . If anybody is near Corsicana and knows if Deanie had actually started a Piet project, maybe you can post an update here.
Enjoy what you're doing while you still can. I can't wait to get Scout back home
(just about 4 weeks till that happens). This Thanksgiving will include giving
thanks for my wonderful wood and fabric Scout.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385809#385809
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Subject: | there's trouble in paradise |
Won't miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut some
great people from EAA's HQ.
[cid:image001.jpg@01CDB074.095FA350]HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA<http://www.avweb.c
om/avwebflash/news/RodHightower_ExperimentalAircraftAssociation_EAAPresiden
t_SteppingDown_207552-1.html>
In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower anno
unced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came follo
wing a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack Pelton wa
s elected chairman of EAA's board.
EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president o
r the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will mee
t with staff Tuesday.
Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and
he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to
replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: there's trouble in paradise |
Agreed. I hope his replacement brings back a commitment to builders.
One tangible piece of evidence would be bringing back the EAA SportAir
Workshops. I attended the electrical systems and avionics class early in
October in Broomfield, CO. There were only two more sets of workshops
scheduled after that one: in Riverside, CA, and in Oshkosh. None were
planned after those.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Won=92t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut
> some great people from EAA=92s HQ. ****
>
> * *
>
> **[image: Description: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/hightower.jpg]***HIG
HTOWER
> OUT AT EAA<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/RodHightower_Experimental
AircraftAssociation_EAAPresident_SteppingDown_207552-1.html>
> *****
>
> In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower
> announced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came
> following a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack
> Pelton was elected chairman of EAA's board.****
>
> EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president
> or the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will
> meet with staff Tuesday.****
>
> Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family,
> and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 20
12
> to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.****
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: can a piet legally tow gliders |
Thanks Greg; it would be for the intention of towing an ultralight glider. less
than 150 lbs. thank you for looking into it. Paul
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385815#385815
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Going Flying |
Hi Mike,
Keep on building those hours so you can get it to Frazier Lake next June. Imagine
it is getting cool in the Piet now; especially now that the rains are here.
You look good in that flying helmet.
Cheers,
Jim B.
Message 15
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Subject: | there's trouble in paradise |
Ding Dong.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 4:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise
Won't miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut some
great people from EAA's HQ.
Description: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/hightower.jpg
<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/RodHightower_ExperimentalAircraftAssoc
iation_EAAPresident_SteppingDown_207552-1.html> HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA
In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower
announced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came
following a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack
Pelton was elected chairman of EAA's board.
EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president or
the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will meet
with staff Tuesday.
Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and
he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to
replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: there's trouble in paradise |
Wow that was quick!! Did anybody think this original decision through? Scar
y. Who's running that place?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:41 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise
Won=99t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and
cut some great people from EAA=99s HQ.
HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA
In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower anno
unced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came follo
wing a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack Pelton wa
s elected chairman of EAA's board.
EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president o
r the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will mee
t with staff Tuesday.
Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and
he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to
replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: there's trouble in paradise |
Those SportAir workshops were GREAT! I myself attended two of them. Can't i
magine why he wanted to eliminate them.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise
Agreed. I hope his replacement brings back a commitment to builders. One
tangible piece of evidence would be bringing back the EAA SportAir Workshop
s. I attended the electrical systems and avionics class early in October i
n Broomfield, CO. There were only two more sets of workshops scheduled aft
er that one: in Riverside, CA, and in Oshkosh. None were planned after tho
se.
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partner
s, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
Won=99t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and
cut some great people from EAA=99s HQ.
HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA
In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower anno
unced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came follo
wing a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack Pelton wa
s elected chairman of EAA's board.
EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president o
r the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will mee
t with staff Tuesday.
Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and
he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to
replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: there's trouble in paradise |
They weren't selling enough Ford's or Deere's at them, of course....
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:39 PM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
> Those SportAir workshops were GREAT! I myself attended two of them. Can't
> imagine why he wanted to eliminate them.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:57 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise
>
> Agreed. I hope his replacement brings back a commitment to builders.
> One tangible piece of evidence would be bringing back the EAA SportAir
> Workshops. I attended the electrical systems and avionics class early in
> October in Broomfield, CO. There were only two more sets of workshops
> scheduled after that one: in Riverside, CA, and in Oshkosh. None were
> planned after those.
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage
> Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>> Won=92t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cu
t
>> some great people from EAA=92s HQ. ****
>> * *
>> **[image: Description: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/hightower.jpg]***HI
GHTOWER
>> OUT AT EAA<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/RodHightower_Experimenta
lAircraftAssociation_EAAPresident_SteppingDown_207552-1.html>
>> *****
>> In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower
>> announced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision cam
e
>> following a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack
>> Pelton was elected chairman of EAA's board.****
>> EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the presiden
t
>> or the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will
>> meet with staff Tuesday.****
>> Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family,
>> and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2
012
>> to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.****
>>
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Deanie Montgomery |
One thing I have found in home built airplanes is you meet some of the best people.
I have found that people will step up and share information with no thought
of self profit and proud to help any way they can.[/b]
--------
Building steel fuselage aircamper.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385824#385824
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