---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/22/12: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:08 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (nightmare) 2. 08:41 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 3. 08:45 AM - can a piet legally tow gliders (Oscar Zuniga) 4. 08:55 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (Greg Bacon) 5. 08:56 AM - Re: Going Flying (Michael Groah) 6. 08:59 AM - Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 (Greg Bacon) 7. 11:02 AM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (nightmare) 8. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (Greg Bacon) 9. 01:02 PM - Re: Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 (taildrags) 10. 01:09 PM - Deanie Montgomery (taildrags) 11. 01:41 PM - there's trouble in paradise (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 12. 01:57 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (Ken Bickers) 13. 02:19 PM - Re: can a piet legally tow gliders (nightmare) 14. 02:52 PM - Re: Going Flying (Jim Boyer) 15. 03:36 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (Jack Phillips) 16. 03:37 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (helspersew@aol.com) 17. 03:39 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (helspersew@aol.com) 18. 06:48 PM - Re: there's trouble in paradise (Ryan Mueller) 19. 07:34 PM - Re: Deanie Montgomery (biplan53) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: can a piet legally tow gliders From: "nightmare" Jerry; It looks like that limitation #20 is part of order #8130.2g . wow what a pain trying to dig this info up. It does look like i still have some hope though, #27 of order 8130.2g basically states that your local fsdo can revise those operating limitations. Have called 4 different fsdo's but seems like they are all on a tuesday-friday schedule. thanks; Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385788#385788 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:35 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: can a piet legally tow gliders My buddy put a tow hook on his Champ. He uses it where he has to hand prop by himself. He puts a peice of 550 cord on a tiedown and hooks it to the tow hook. then after hand propping he pulls the chocks and gets in. when ready he releases the tow hook and departs. Blue skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Gmail Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: can a piet legally tow gliders > > Mtn Piet has a tow hook, but I'm not sure if John Dilatush was serious about using it. Perhaps he added the hook as more of a > statement of power, referring to the 135 hp Turbo Subaru. Sorry > Paul, I don't know anything about towing regulations. > > Greg Bacon > Garratt Callahan > gbacon@g-c.com > (573)489-4795 > > On Oct 21, 2012, at 11:55 AM, "nightmare" < wrote: > > > > > I believe "mountain Piet" has or is towing gliders, but can't seem to find a contact for him. my situation may be a bit different though. I'm having so much fun building my Piet, I thought it would be cool to also build a ULF-1. http://www.eel.de/english/home_en.htm its a wood and fabric plans built ultralight glider that is launched via tow or foot launch. This means my homebuilt would be towing a homebuilt. the glider meets the ultralight rule of 150 lbs or less. so i imagine i would have the option to "N" number it or not. > > I also fly hang gliders, and our hang gliders are legally towed by experimental LSA (E-LSA), but not sure about experimental-amateur built. > > 91.319 Aircraft having experimental > > certificates: Operating limitations. > > (a) No person may operate an aircraft > > that has an experimental certificate > > (1) For other than the purpose for > > which the certificate was issued; > > does the above mean that upon my piet being certified, i should have it stipulated that it will be operated for towing gliders? > > confusing subject. any one have any answers? thanks; Paul > > > > -------- > > Paul Donahue > > Started 8-3-12 > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385729#385729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:47 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: can a piet legally tow gliders Greg: some people install tow hooks on their airplanes to hold it in place while hand-propping the airplane solo. However=2C I believe Mountain Piet had a regular starter on the Subaru=2C so the hold-down would not have been needed and it must have been intended for towing. With the turbo Soob=2C it probably had enough power. Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: can a piet legally tow gliders From: Greg Bacon Yes, Oscar, Mtn Piet has a starter. I'll get in touch with John. He may be able to shed some light on the towing regs issue. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Greg: some people install tow hooks on their airplanes to hold it in place > while hand-propping the airplane solo. However, I believe Mountain Piet > had a regular starter on the Subaru, so the hold-down would not have been > needed and it must have been intended for towing. With the turbo Soob, it > probably had enough power. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > * > > * > > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:18 AM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Going Flying Ok.. well the storm that kept Gary on the ground yesterday hadn't reached s outh to me yet so I got to go up for a couple of flights.=C2- My morning flight was a little bumpy as things were starting to warm up ( I could see dust devils forming in the fields surrounding me), but my evening flight wa s smooth as could be. It was just beautiful and I didn't want to come back down but the sun was setting so I didn't' have much of a choice.=C2- I ma de a respectable wheel landing, put the plane away and was able to log 1.9 hours for the day.=C2- I'm now up to 14.3 hours of flying in the plane. =C2- =0AThe attached photos were taken on my morning flight ( I didn't' n eed the jacket on the evening flight).=C2- Nothing special with the photo s, just a couple quick shots, like Gary I was more focused on flying the pl ane than taking good pictures.=C2- =0A=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Gary Boothe =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, October 21, 201 2 11:34 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Going Flying=0A =0A=0ASorry, Fred . My bad, of course. In my defense, my new prop had me a bit puzzled, and I really only had time for one pass around the pattern. Camera was sitting r ight there beside me. As a consolation, I offer this pic, taken today, but too breezy to fly=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AGary Boothe=0ANX308MB=0A=C2 -=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpo l-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jane and Fred=0ASent: Sunday, Oct ober 21, 2012 5:44 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenp ol-List: Going Flying=0A=C2-=0AI hate when guys say they're going flying, then they go flying and then they don't post any pictures!=C2- ; )=0A=C2 -=0AJust kidding...kind of...=0A=C2-=0ABest regards,=0AFred B.=0ALa Cro sse, WI=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Li st=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:38 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 From: Greg Bacon Gang, All that is left of the fabric work is leading edge tape and drain grommets. Fabric sealing and paint is next. My hat is off to all of you that have built piets from scratch. I'm humbled by the amount of work and time that has gone into just the center section and one wing panel. Holy cow!!!! do not archive -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: can a piet legally tow gliders From: "nightmare" just got off phone with EAA. looks like there are two possible ways to do it. 1. a DAR upon certification can omit that limitation, or add the words "for hire", so that i can still do it. hit or miss if they would do it, but was told i could call every DAR until i find one who is willing, then bring it to his area for the inspection. then bring it home and i would be allowed to do it anywhere in the country. 2. or after certification, find any FSDO that would change the limitation via a LODA (letter of deviation authority). then i could still tow anywhere in the country. I have no idea how realistic it is to get this accomplished, but it sure would be cool towing a glider from florida to broadhead some day. i would put my girlfriend in the front and the wife in the glider. Ha! -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385796#385796 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: can a piet legally tow gliders From: Greg Bacon I just got off the phone with John Dilatush, builder of Mtn Piet. He installed a tow hook with the intent of towing glider planes for a couple friends. After a conversation with a tow plane pilot, he abandoned the idea. He never installed the cable and release mechanism. The tow plane pilot was concerned about the weight ratio between the piet tow plane and the glider. Essentially, it's dangerous to tow with a plane lighter than the glider, even if the thrust is sufficient. It may work, but leave too little room for error. So, Paul, you may want to research this aspect before proceeding. Greg On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:02 PM, nightmare wrote: > pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> > > just got off phone with EAA. looks like there are two possible ways to do > it. > 1. a DAR upon certification can omit that limitation, or add the words > "for hire", so that i can still do it. hit or miss if they would do it, but > was told i could call every DAR until i find one who is willing, then bring > it to his area for the inspection. then bring it home and i would be > allowed to do it anywhere in the country. > 2. or after certification, find any FSDO that would change the limitation > via a LODA (letter of deviation authority). then i could still tow anywhere > in the country. > I have no idea how realistic it is to get this accomplished, but it > sure would be cool towing a glider from florida to broadhead some day. i > would put my girlfriend in the front and the wife in the glider. Ha! > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385796#385796 > > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mtn Piet update Oct 2012 From: "taildrags" Greg: there is one thing that I have found and that is, whether you build one from scratch or just make some minor mods or repairs, the feeling when you hop in and get it in the air again is the same. You'll see ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385805#385805 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Deanie Montgomery From: "taildrags" Time marches on. Some of you may recall that I have had a fellow named Deanie Montgomery overhaul several Stromberg carbs for me. Reading the list of names in "Gone West" in the most recent issue of Sport Aviation, I saw Deanie's name there and just like that, he's gone. Last time I spoke with him on the phone (I don't think he ever had email) he mentioned that he was starting work on an Air Camper and a Corvair for it. Here's an obit from the Corsicana, Texas "Daily Sun": http://corsicanadailysun.com/obituaries/x1395116878/Deanie-Montgomery . If anybody is near Corsicana and knows if Deanie had actually started a Piet project, maybe you can post an update here. Enjoy what you're doing while you still can. I can't wait to get Scout back home (just about 4 weeks till that happens). This Thanksgiving will include giving thanks for my wonderful wood and fabric Scout. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385809#385809 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:30 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise Won't miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut some great people from EAA's HQ. [cid:image001.jpg@01CDB074.095FA350]HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower anno unced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came follo wing a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack Pelton wa s elected chairman of EAA's board. EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president o r the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will mee t with staff Tuesday. Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise From: Ken Bickers Agreed. I hope his replacement brings back a commitment to builders. One tangible piece of evidence would be bringing back the EAA SportAir Workshops. I attended the electrical systems and avionics class early in October in Broomfield, CO. There were only two more sets of workshops scheduled after that one: in Riverside, CA, and in Oshkosh. None were planned after those. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > Won=92t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut > some great people from EAA=92s HQ. **** > > * * > > **[image: Description: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/hightower.jpg]***HIG HTOWER > OUT AT EAA > ***** > > In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower > announced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came > following a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack > Pelton was elected chairman of EAA's board.**** > > EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president > or the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will > meet with staff Tuesday.**** > > Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, > and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 20 12 > to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.**** > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: can a piet legally tow gliders From: "nightmare" Thanks Greg; it would be for the intention of towing an ultralight glider. less than 150 lbs. thank you for looking into it. Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385815#385815 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:08 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Going Flying Hi Mike, Keep on building those hours so you can get it to Frazier Lake next June. Imagine it is getting cool in the Piet now; especially now that the rains are here. You look good in that flying helmet. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:50 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise Ding Dong. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 4:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise Won't miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut some great people from EAA's HQ. Description: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/hightower.jpg HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower announced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came following a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack Pelton was elected chairman of EAA's board. EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president or the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will meet with staff Tuesday. Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise From: helspersew@aol.com Wow that was quick!! Did anybody think this original decision through? Scar y. Who's running that place? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:41 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise Won=99t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut some great people from EAA=99s HQ. HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower anno unced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came follo wing a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack Pelton wa s elected chairman of EAA's board. EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president o r the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will mee t with staff Tuesday. Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise From: helspersew@aol.com Those SportAir workshops were GREAT! I myself attended two of them. Can't i magine why he wanted to eliminate them. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Ken Bickers Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:57 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise Agreed. I hope his replacement brings back a commitment to builders. One tangible piece of evidence would be bringing back the EAA SportAir Workshop s. I attended the electrical systems and avionics class early in October i n Broomfield, CO. There were only two more sets of workshops scheduled aft er that one: in Riverside, CA, and in Oshkosh. None were planned after tho se. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partner s, LLC] wrote: Won=99t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cut some great people from EAA=99s HQ. HIGHTOWER OUT AT EAA In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower anno unced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision came follo wing a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack Pelton wa s elected chairman of EAA's board. EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the president o r the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will mee t with staff Tuesday. Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2012 to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise From: Ryan Mueller They weren't selling enough Ford's or Deere's at them, of course.... On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:39 PM, wrote: > Those SportAir workshops were GREAT! I myself attended two of them. Can't > imagine why he wanted to eliminate them. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Bickers > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:57 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: there's trouble in paradise > > Agreed. I hope his replacement brings back a commitment to builders. > One tangible piece of evidence would be bringing back the EAA SportAir > Workshops. I attended the electrical systems and avionics class early in > October in Broomfield, CO. There were only two more sets of workshops > scheduled after that one: in Riverside, CA, and in Oshkosh. None were > planned after those. > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage > Partners, LLC] wrote: > >> Won=92t miss this guy. He cut and sliced up the veteran staff and cu t >> some great people from EAA=92s HQ. **** >> * * >> **[image: Description: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/hightower.jpg]***HI GHTOWER >> OUT AT EAA >> ***** >> In a surprise announcement Monday, EAA president and CEO Rod Hightower >> announced he was stepping down effectively immediately. The decision cam e >> following a board of directors meeting in which former Cessna CEP Jack >> Pelton was elected chairman of EAA's board.**** >> EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Pelton has not been named the presiden t >> or the CEO but he will handle the transition from Hightower. Pelton will >> meet with staff Tuesday.**** >> Hightower said he was stepping down to spend more time with his family, >> and he plans to move back to St. Louis. Hightower was hired in July of 2 012 >> to replace former EAA president Tom Poberezny.**** >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Deanie Montgomery From: "biplan53" One thing I have found in home built airplanes is you meet some of the best people. I have found that people will step up and share information with no thought of self profit and proud to help any way they can.[/b] -------- Building steel fuselage aircamper. 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