Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:08 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 01:03 AM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (jarheadpilot82)
2. 03:32 AM - Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... (FandS_Piet)
3. 04:16 AM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (helspersew@aol.com)
4. 04:32 AM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (Jack Phillips)
5. 04:51 AM - Re: Dihedral and washout (Jerry Dotson)
6. 06:27 AM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (AircamperN11MS)
7. 06:46 AM - Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update (AircamperN11MS)
8. 06:55 AM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (helspersew@aol.com)
9. 07:01 AM - Re: Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update (Jack Phillips)
10. 07:10 AM - Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update (AircamperN11MS)
11. 07:20 AM - Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... (Michael Perez)
12. 11:24 AM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (kevinpurtee)
13. 12:27 PM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (Bill Church)
14. 12:47 PM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (jarheadpilot82)
15. 01:27 PM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (Bill Church)
16. 02:43 PM - Re: Flottorp Prop (taildrags)
17. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Dihedral and washout (airlion)
18. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update (airlion)
19. 05:28 PM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (jarheadpilot82)
20. 05:41 PM - Re: Dihedral and washout (Doug Dever)
21. 06:36 PM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (Bill Church)
22. 06:52 PM - Re: Building a Steel fuselage (jarheadpilot82)
23. 07:17 PM - steel fuse (Douwe Blumberg)
24. 07:18 PM - Ohio fly-in (Douwe Blumberg)
25. 07:22 PM - Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... (Don Emch)
26. 07:23 PM - Re: Headsets (tools)
27. 08:24 PM - Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... (K5YAC)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
I purchased a steel tube fuselage about a year ago that I found on Barnstormers.com
(thanks again Skip Gadd for your help on that).
It appears to be built to the plans found in the Flyer & Glider Manual, with the
tapered tube sizes and splices as depicted in the plans. I took it to Corvair
College #24 in Barnwell SC this past weekend and had it looked at by several
experienced builders. They were impressed with the weight savings as opposed
to the wooden fuselage or the (dare I say it?) Grega steel tube plans. William
Wynne thinks that it weighs about half of what the Grega plans weigh, and other
Piet builders there suggested that it was 15-30 pounds lighter than the wooden
plans, as Tools stated earlier. To be clear, it is a short fuselage, as the
longer fuselage was not designed until after this came out in the F&G Manual.
It is not designed for a 6'3" 260 pounder. I am 5'11" and 205 and it is tight,
but does not appear to be claustrophobic.
Tools is right. There are a small number of the steel tube Piets, so support in
that construction is small. Frankly, I wanted one but never expected to have
one until I fell into this. I never thought I would have the welding expertise
to build a fuselage I would have faith in! It sounds like you have the shop,
as well as the ability to build this fuselage. I would encourage you to do so.
My biggest reason to want one was for the weight savings, but I do think that
there other advantages to the steel tube fuselage beyond just the weight.
There are three things that I am doing to alter it from the F&G plans-
1. I am having die spring gear installed as opposed to the bungee cords. Read the
link for a discussion on the die spring gear. William Wynne is installing mine
at his shop.
2. It was suggested to me that two additional vertical tubes (probably 3/8" tube
would be plenty) should be welded in back, just above the tail wheel to give
it a bit more strength. Ed Fisher of the Sport Aviation Association suggested
that one. I can send you pictures offline of the area that I am talking about.
A very simple, light addition.
3. I am going to have William cut in a door for the front cockpit. It is tough
for anyone much bigger than a small child to get in that front cockpit seat. I
thought the door would help.
Please feel free to contact me off-line if I can answer any other questions.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387899#387899
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... |
I've always wondered how Don did it ( and still does). Don you will have to be
my mentor. We came over to your place on Sunday but didn't see any avtivity
so we flew over to Barber and scavenged around Franks's Piet's some more.
Schedule the day this winter and I'll mark it on my calendar for sure.
--------
Fred Kim
Pittsburgh, Pa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387901#387901
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
Oh, I don't know.... a steel fuselage on a 1929 Pietenpol with a Model A Fo
rd..... just doesn't fit in my mind. It just seems too high-tech to me. Whe
n I chose the Pietenpol the wood fuse was one of the simple and charming pa
rts of the design that attracted. That smell of freshly cut spruce... saw d
ust on the floor.....sweeping at the end of the day.... Besides, I rem
ember reading somewhere that Bernerd actually preferred the wood (probably
in the "lost" papers).
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
P.S. Ask Kevin Purtee his opinion of the wood fuselage....
-----Original Message-----
From: Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:24 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
Hello, I am just getting started on building a Pietenpol and would like to
get
some feed back from you guys good or bad. I am wanting to build a Piet to l
ook
all original with a Model A engine, tall wheels, pioneer instruments, etc.
100%
period correct other than a steel tubing fuselage using the steel plans fro
m the
Glider manual. I own a restoration shop and restore airplanes and cars for
a
living so I have all the tools, equipment and knowledge to build it. The
question is why do you not see them much? Just that it's easier to build a
wood
one? Is there any weight and balance problems, etc.? Has anyone ever built
steel
tubing tail feathers? Are there any drawings for steel tail feathers? Does
anyone know the weight difference compared to a wood one? Should anything e
lse
be changed with building a steel one? Engine, wing locations? The steel pla
ns
are not to detailed so I guess it's up to the builder to install stringers,
bulkheads, seats, cowling as you see fit. Keeping i!
t light as possible of course. Or are there any more detailed plans out th
ere
for a steel fuselage? I look forward to hearing all the pro's and con's. Th
anks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387801#387801
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| Subject: | Building a Steel fuselage |
Steel tube fuselages were common enough in 1929. Did you ever look at a
Waco Nine or a Travelair? Gene Rambo's 1927 Travelair 2000 has a nice
welded steel tube fuselage.
Most Piets are wood because most people are more comfortable working with
wood. If you've got the tools and skills to do it in steel, go for it. It
does require more thinking to make a steel tube fuselage, because you've got
to plan ahead and make brackets for every piece that will be attached to the
fuselage. With wood you can just glue or screw something to the structure.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
Oh, I don't know.... a steel fuselage on a 1929 Pietenpol with a Model A
Ford..... just doesn't fit in my mind. It just seems too high-tech to me.
When I chose the Pietenpol the wood fuse was one of the simple and charming
parts of the design that attracted. That smell of freshly cut spruce... saw
dust on the floor.....sweeping at the end of the day.... Besides, I
remember reading somewhere that Bernerd actually preferred the wood
(probably in the "lost" papers).
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
P.S. Ask Kevin Purtee his opinion of the wood fuselage....
-----Original Message-----
From: Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:24 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
Hello, I am just getting started on building a Pietenpol and would like to
get
some feed back from you guys good or bad. I am wanting to build a Piet to
look
all original with a Model A engine, tall wheels, pioneer instruments, etc.
100%
period correct other than a steel tubing fuselage using the steel plans from
the
Glider manual. I own a restoration shop and restore airplanes and cars for a
living so I have all the tools, equipment and knowledge to build it. The
question is why do you not see them much? Just that it's easier to build a
wood
one? Is there any weight and balance problems, etc.? Has anyone ever built
steel
tubing tail feathers? Are there any drawings for steel tail feathers? Does
anyone know the weight difference compared to a wood one? Should anything
else
be changed with building a steel one? Engine, wing locations? The steel
plans
are not to detailed so I guess it's up to the builder to install stringers,
bulkheads, seats, cowling as you see fit. Keeping i!
t light as possible of course. Or are there any more detailed plans out
there
for a steel fuselage? I look forward to hearing all the pro's and con's.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387801#387801
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Re: Dihedral and washout |
I use an automotive Garmin Nuvi 255W. Put it in bicycle mode and it draws a pink
course line just like the Ipad does. I replaced the car with an airplane download.
I have a Garmin 195 also but prefer the 255. The map has lots more detail
than the old 195 does. I use the Sectional and my eyes for tower and Class
C avoidance. Used Velcro to attach it to the brace cables on top of the instrument
panel. A lot of the airports are already in the database. If not I just plug
in Lat/Lon coordinates and name it. It is real easy.
Last fly-in I went to I forgot to take it off the panel. There were several snickers
even down right laughs. All I could say in response was "IT works".
Kevin(Axle) Purtee might approve. He will use an East Texas trick now and then.
Around here they are called LA tricks(LA= Lower Alabama)
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Started building July, 2009
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387905#387905
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
Here are the drawings for the steel tail on my plane. Enjoy
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387909#387909
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_steel_tail_1_478.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update |
Piet family,
Here is an update. Saturdays flight was canceled due to a poor weather prediction.
Steve and Peter did go to the airport to do some final checks on the plane
Saturday morning. They have put a fair amount of time on the engine while
taxing it around over the last few weeks and decided it was time to do a full
power two minute run up per William Wynn's recommendation. About one minute into
it the engine run, it started running rough and started to smoke. I didn't
get any other details than that. I don't know if it was blue or black smoke.
They also said it lost compression in one of the cylinders. Anyway, Steve told
me yesterday that after some tear down they found it had an over heated piston.
It will need to be replaced. I'm very confident that they will find the root
of the problem and when they get it corrected we will try again.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387912#387912
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
The last thing I want to do is be a discouragement to anybody. If a steel t
ube fuse is part of the dream, then of course you need to go after it. Don'
t let others opinions swerve you off course. After all, it is in the F&G pl
ans. Ask Mike Perez. Now that is a man who knows his mind :O)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:33 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
Steel tube fuselages were common enough in1929. Did you ever look at a Wac
o Nine or a Travelair? Gene Rambo=99s1927 Travelair 2000 has a nice
welded steel tube fuselage.
Most Piets are wood because most peopleare more comfortable working with wo
od. If you=99ve got the tools andskills to do it in steel, go for it
. It does require more thinking tomake a steel tube fuselage, because you
=99ve got to plan ahead and makebrackets for every piece that will be
attached to the fuselage. With woodyou can just glue or screw something t
o the structure.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 20127:16 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Building a Steel fuselage
Oh, I don't know.... a steel fuselage ona 1929 Pietenpol with a Model A For
d..... just doesn't fit in my mind. It justseems too high-tech to me. When
I chose the Pietenpol the wood fuse was one ofthe simple and charming parts
of the design that attracted. That smell offreshly cut spruce... saw dust
on the floor.....sweeping at the end of theday.... Besides, I remember
reading somewherethat Bernerd actually preferred the wood (probably in the
"lost"papers).
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN.
P.S. Ask Kevin Purtee his opinionof the wood fuselage....
-----OriginalMessage-----
From: Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:24 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building a Steel fuselage
Hello, I am just getting started on building a Pietenpol and would like to
get
some feed back from you guys good or bad. I am wanting to build a Piet to l
ook
all original with a Model A engine, tall wheels, pioneer instruments, etc.
100%
period correct other than a steel tubing fuselage using the steel plans fro
m the
Glider manual. I own a restoration shop and restore airplanes and cars for
a
living so I have all the tools, equipment and knowledge to build it. The
question is why do you not see them much? Just that it's easier to build a
wood
one? Is there any weight and balance problems, etc.? Has anyone ever built
steel
tubing tail feathers? Are there any drawings for steel tail feathers? Does
anyone know the weight difference compared to a wood one? Should anything e
lse
be changed with building a steel one? Engine, wing locations? The steel pla
ns
are not to detailed so I guess it's up to the builder to install stringers,
bulkheads, seats, cowling as you see fit. Keeping i!
t light as possible of course. Or are there any more detailed plans out th
ere
for a steel fuselage? I look forward to hearing all the pro's and con's. Th
anks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387801#387801
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update |
Aren't you glad YOU didn't find this problem just after takeoff!
Good luck with it, Scott
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update
<Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
Piet family,
Here is an update. Saturdays flight was canceled due to a poor weather
prediction. Steve and Peter did go to the airport to do some final checks
on the plane Saturday morning. They have put a fair amount of time on the
engine while taxing it around over the last few weeks and decided it was
time to do a full power two minute run up per William Wynn's recommendation.
About one minute into it the engine run, it started running rough and
started to smoke. I didn't get any other details than that. I don't know if
it was blue or black smoke. They also said it lost compression in one of the
cylinders. Anyway, Steve told me yesterday that after some tear down they
found it had an over heated piston. It will need to be replaced. I'm very
confident that they will find the root of the problem and when they get it
corrected we will try again.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387912#387912
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| Subject: | Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update |
Yup, I am glad of that. They have a long runway and I figure that time frame would
have put me over the departure end of it. This is a great example of why
we check and recheck our aircraft before flight. I would have also done the
same power test before I flew it. To make sure there were no fuel delivery issues
and to see what the engine would turn on a static run. Kudos to them for
finding it.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387915#387915
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... |
If things continue to progress as they are now, I believe my plane will be done
summer/fall time frame next year...I hope.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
I can vouch for the energy absorbing qualities of the wood fuselage...
[Shocked]
By all means build a metal tube fuselage and post what you learn here and on West
Coast Piet. Jake's been very helpful in sharing his experience with other
potential metal fuselage builders.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387922#387922
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
One thing to keep in mind regarding the steel tube fuselage is that it still has
a fair amount of wood on it. There's the turtledeck, and the seats, and the
floorboard, and the side fairings, and the panels, etc.
I haven't taken the time to do the necessary calculations to do an honest comparison
(and I have no plan to do so), but my gut tells me that the true weight
savings may not be quite "as advertised". Most builders who weigh their wood
fuselages probably have all of the woodwork done when they plunk it on a scale,
whereas with the steel tube fuselage, I can imagine a builder weighing it as
soon as the metalwork is done, but without all of the woodwork attached.
Then again, as I said, I haven't actually done any calculations. This is just
a hunch. I don't doubt that there are some weight savings to be gained with the
steel tube fuselage, but I bet it isn't 30 pounds.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387927#387927
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
Bill,
I think most, if not all guys building a Piet are smart enough to realize that
to weigh a steel tube fuselage only and compare it to a wooden fuselage with cabanes,
turtledeck, tail feathers, etc is an apples to oranges comparison that
has no value.
If someone has a wooden fuselage with the main gear and tail wheel only that would
like to weigh their project and I could have Wiliam Wynne weigh mine, that
might be an interesting comparison. I don't think that to do such a comparison
would be a 'urinating competition' but would simply be an interesting exercise.
Just a thought.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387928#387928
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
Cabanes?... tailfeathers?...
Terry, all I was suggesting was that for a proper comparison, both fuselages should
be completed to the same degree. THAT is the only way to avoid an apples
to oranges comparison. When the wooden fuselage gets built, the seats, floorboards,
turtledeck are all most likely glued in, so those items (or the weight
of the wood required to add them) should be added to the weight of the steel
fuselage. The fuselages being weighed should also be "similar" fuselages, i.e.
both "short" or "long" fuselages, to produce meaningful results.
In comparing weights of completed fuselages, one has to take into account all of
the details. Often I have read about fuselage weights that include the control
system, since it isn't exactly easy to remove , once it is installed.
So does your fuselage have seats, floorboards, and turtledeck installed? Because
anyone building a wood fuselage will likely have those items glued on (but
probably not the landing gear and tailwheel). Just to keep the exercise interesting,
and urine-free.
Bill C.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387929#387929
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Flottorp Prop |
Gerry: I asked my guru about this combination and here's his reply:
"I had that combination on the J-4 Cub with the A-65 until one of the guys put
it over on its nose. The Flottorp prop we had was fixed pitch with either 1/8"
or 1/4" laminations. Really nice prop to fly. Smooth and performed a bit better
than the Sensenich we replaced it with. I really liked the prop. 50" pitch
is going to be a bit coarse for an A-75, but looking at the Flottorp application
chart, the 72x50 prop was used on the A-65 applications. The A-75s used the
same prop with a 46" pitch. So, if he doesn't mind turning the engine a bit slower
like an A-65 (which the A-75 will happily do), it will work OK. Should perform
just fine in a Piet, but having the capability to turn the engine up a
bit would increase the climb. The good news here is that the 72x50 Flottorp prop
should be easy to sell on something like the J3-Cub forum and should sell for
at least enough to cover buying a decent prop of the correct pitch. Those that
are in the know on the Cub forum know that the Flottorp prop is a superior
prop to its Sensenich counterpart from that day. If I had a Cub with an A-65,
I'd be sending him an offer for the prop.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dihedral and washout |
what is the monthly cost for all these great things? Airlion
----- Original Message ----
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Sent: Tue, November 13, 2012 11:26:28 PM
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Consider drinking the koolaide and get an iPad mini with the internal GPS. It
will put your plane on a moving map with the sectional as the background. will
download weather and help plan trips. It costs $400-600 (cheaper than most
aviation GPSs) and can be used for other things. It will take photos, shoot
video and serve as a reader. you can even use it as a phone. and watch movies
like "The Great Waldo Pepper."
It can be mounted flat on your panel or swivel on a mount.
I will be buying one this week for use in my bonanza and other aircraft.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
> Douwe,
>
>
>
> The macho stance is to just fly your Pietenpol with the technology
> thatBernard had available - chart and compass. While it can
> certainly be done
> that way (I flew a J-3 Cub from Tennessee to Texas using just
> that), it is
> foolish to turn your back on anything that can make flying safer.
> GPS is a
> wonderful tool for increasing your situational awareness, and
> thereforeincreasing safety. Just don't allow yourself to get too
> dependent on it -
> they can and do fail.
>
>
>
> I made a mount for my Garmin GPSMap 196 that attaches to the right
> upperlongeron so it is out of the way and easy to see. I then use
> a kneeboard
> with a TripTik chart (a series of 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 portions of a
> sectionalchart with my course printed on them). I can just turn
> over each page as I
> fly onto the next and can keep track of my progress in case the GPS
> goesTango Uniform. I use Aeroplanner software to generate the
> triptiks, but I
> think there are several different companies out there that do the same
> thing.
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> Where I very nearly wiped out a DiamondStar DA-40 this evening when
> 5 deer
> ran across the runway as we were rolling out after landing. The
> last one
> missed the prop by less than a foot and then went UNDER the right
> wingtip.
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
> Blumberg
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 2:40 PM
> To: pietenpolgroup
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
>
>
>
> Douwe.
>
>
>
> Ps. Does anyone have a good system for using gps when flying and
> yet still
> keeping track of their approximate position on a chart in the case
> gpspoops?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update |
what kind of cowl do you have and how big are your intake holes? also do you
have a large enough cooling exit area? I had this same problem and after
rebuilding the engine I created better cooling airflow on top of the engine.
William explained all this a year ago after my problems. cheers,Airlion
----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wed, November 14, 2012 10:01:36 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update
Aren't you glad YOU didn't find this problem just after takeoff!
Good luck with it, Scott
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: French Valley Pietenpol Update
<Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
Piet family,
Here is an update. Saturdays flight was canceled due to a poor weather
prediction. Steve and Peter did go to the airport to do some final checks
on the plane Saturday morning. They have put a fair amount of time on the
engine while taxing it around over the last few weeks and decided it was
time to do a full power two minute run up per William Wynn's recommendation.
About one minute into it the engine run, it started running rough and
started to smoke. I didn't get any other details than that. I don't know if
it was blue or black smoke. They also said it lost compression in one of the
cylinders. Anyway, Steve told me yesterday that after some tear down they
found it had an over heated piston. It will need to be replaced. I'm very
confident that they will find the root of the problem and when they get it
corrected we will try again.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
My point exactly. As I said before-
"If someone has a wooden fuselage with the main gear and tail wheel only that would
like to weigh their project and I could have Wiliam Wynne weigh mine, that
might be an interesting comparison. I don't think that to do such a comparison
would be a 'urinating competition' but would simply be an interesting exercise."
That would make them the same basic configuration, and, thus, more of an apples
to apples comparison. If there is no one that has a wood fuselage in that configuration,
then it would not be an accurate comparison. Like I said.
The reality is that if it is a long fuselage then it will be an apples to oranges
comparison any way as the steel tube fuselage is a short fuselage.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Dihedral and washout |
I agree. Been to the arctic and back and all over the Canadian bush with c
harts. Use the GPS for back up :)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: cncampbell@windstream.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
My answer to your PS: Leave the GPS in the hangar and use the chart ONLY.
I just don't like these new fangled thangs! Chuck
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
Sent: Friday=2C November 09=2C 2012 2:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
Ken=2C
RE-PIET has zero dihedral=2C and no noticeable washout. The ailerons are r
igged so that when neutral=2C they each rest about =BD=94 above the trailin
g edge to give some =93false=94 washout. I have no idea if it works=2C but
she flies quite nicely and stalls EXTREMELY gently with zero tendency to f
all off either way. She=92s pretty neutral in a turn=2C but in a sharpish
turn=2C she will very gently want to tighten it up. Less than other Piets
I=92ve flown=2C one of which was a bit scary=2C especially to the left=85
Added some extended =93downtubes=94 on my exhaust today to try to get the s
moke away from the fuse/tail feathers. Got it off the fuse=2C but still ge
tting on the underside of the horz stab. Don=92t know how far down I=92d h
ave to go to make that stop. Guess I=92ll just keep extending until it sto
ps and make the decision whether to go with that or just not use smoke very
often and clean it up after each smoking session.
On the ferry flight back to my home base yesterday=2C just as the airport h
ove into view=2C my engine started to vibrate. I throttled back and it smo
othed out=2C then the vibration started at the lower rpm. I was really ner
vous=2C thinking my prop was falling off or my engine mount had broken. Tr
ying to make a nice kosher entrance to the pattern=2C she really started to
vibrate so I just took her down=2C sideslipped in and made a surprisingly
good landing on the pavement for a frightened/frozen aviator with four asph
alt landings in the Piet to his credit.
Shut her down=2C got out and fuel was dripping out of my carb and the sides
were covered with black sooty exhaust. Some foreign object had jammed the
float open and she was funning SUPER rich. Great excuse to uncowl her tod
ay and ck everything now that she=92s got five ours of flight time. Checke
d all the strainers=2C took the bowl off the carb and cleared it=2C checked
everything else=2C ran her up and went for a lovely fifteen minute flight
over my house.
Found one loose prop bolt and the rest definitely needed torque-ing. DON
=92T SKIMP ON CHECKING YOUR PROP BOLTS ON WOODEN PROPS REGULARLY AND OFTEN.
I THINK 25 HRS ISN=92T ENOUGH=2C ESPECIALLY WITH A NEW PROP. My mechanic
did it with me and showed me how to properly safety wire the prop bolts.
I must have not done it just right so allow one to back out as it did.
Everything looked good in there=2C including the dozen or so un-safetied ho
se clamps=85
Douwe.
Ps. Does anyone have a good system for using gps when flying and yet still
keeping track of their approximate position on a chart in the case gps po
ops?
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
My final comments on this matter:
Terry, you didn't say whether your fuselage has any of the woodwork in place.
You didn't say whether the forward coaming is in place. You didn't say what type
of landing gear you have installed, and you didn't say what type of tailwheel
you have installed. So, it's going to be pretty hard for anyone to know whether
they have an apple or an orange.
Having said that, it's a pretty safe bet that NOBODY is going to have a wooden
fuselage (short or long) without floorboards, seats or turtledeck, but WITH all
of the other wood (including the side paneling) installed, and with landing
gear and tailwheel mounted. They just don't get built that way.
But, I'd still like to know how the weight of the steel tube fuselage actually
compares against the weight of the all wood fuselage. Probably the best way would
be to weigh your steel fuselage after you have added all the wooden bits
to it, and then ask for comparisons with wooden fuselages (and other steel tube
fuselages, too). I bet Jake Schultz's steel tube Piet is in about the right
stage of building to do a weight comparison. Based on recent photos, I think
he's got all or most of the other wooden bits added on.
Bill C.
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Building a Steel fuselage |
You didn't ask. Until now.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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Message 23
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Hey Rob (I assume that's your name from your email address)
I'd build a steel fuse next time in a heartbeat. I find it easier to build
and, as has been mentioned, is reputedly significantly lighter.
The plane was designed for the Ford and balances OK with the wood fuse,
though many stretch the motor mount a few inches, so a lighter steel fuse
should be perfect as is. Shouldn't need to move anything around.
I am unaware of any detailed plans for the fuse. You're right, you'll have
to "wing" the details, which shouldn't be a big deal. Just reference the
wood fuselage plans and put stuff in the same places.
Don't know of any steel empennage out there. Plans assume a wood one,
though I see no reason one couldn't copy some other light plane design that
used steel like a Heath Parasol.
If I wanted the original Jenny gear, I'd build it from steel in as well.
Probably come out lighter and stronger (not that it needs to be stronger.)
$.02
Douwe
Message 24
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Not sure if I could fly up if it's too cold, but any other time of year, or
if we got a decent window, I'd sure like to try to come up an join you guys.
Douwe
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... |
Oh what a fun day for the wife to actually read this list. So Don is your hero?!?!
Bahahahahaha!!!
I do have to agree with the broken furnace,, transmission issue, etc. He forgot
about last year when I had to ring out ALL of the laundry by hand when the washer
broke. For MONTHS!! (Reminder 4 kids).
And the funniest part of our little family, if you look at the picture the Mr.
Cuy so nicely posted, is that Ryan looks NOTHING like his father. The bigger
joke is that Ryan favors the UPS man that happened to deliver the daily items
from Aircraft Spruce during this time in our lives. Maybe around when the Pietenpol
was in the living room getting sewed. Ironic indeed. (not insinuating
anything, just really humorous).
But I have to say my hubby is a super great guy! Yes he is obsessed with any and
all old airplanes. But he knows when he is needed to have family time. It
is all about the balance. He has figured out how to do it, and also figured
out when to offer the favorite Mexican restaurant when he has pushed too far.
So don't give up guys....but remember that us girls sometimes need a diversion
from dope and ribs. :-).
gretchen emch, the wife.
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Message 26
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I'm with you Oscar, it's just part of the lore of this genre of flying. I taught
my son to fly in one, doing the whole yelling and screaming routine! I sort
of had flashbacks to what I imagined old military students going through in
primary flight training in Jennys!
I'm shocked there aren't simple NON VOX inter comms available. I really need to
dig into the old ham radio books for simple inter comm circuits that'll do what
I want.
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Piets--don't forget about... |
As another Pietenpol wife likes to say... wimminz gotz needs, or something like
that.
Funny stuff Mrs. E.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
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