Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required) (Jerry Dotson)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Throttle Cable Routing for Stromberg on A65 (Michael Perez)
3. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required) (C N Campbell)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Greg Bacon)
5. 07:34 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gary Boothe)
6. 07:52 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gene Rambo)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (gliderx5@comcast.net)
8. 09:25 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gmail)
9. 09:41 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gary Boothe)
10. 12:57 PM - Progress (kevinpurtee)
11. 06:18 PM - Re: Progress (aerocarjake)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required) |
Harvey,
Here is my $0.02 :
If an Aerovee will make 65 horsepower on a dyno it can have a redeuction drive
installed of the right ratio it will surely fly a Piet. There will be a small
parasitic loss due to the re-drive but not much.
I have zero experience with this conversion as I prefer to use airplane engines
but for the sake of your own satisfaction I say go for it. How long it will
last is up for grabs. My experience is in the certified world. I do have experience
with the Lycoming GO-480 and Continental GO-300. They were not long life
engines. There were some exceptions and I never knew why. Typical TBO's for high
output engines(geared and supercharged) runs 1200 to 1400 hours. I have a
recipe for longevity.
at least 2 cubic inches per horsepower produced
clean air and clean high quality oil
climb at the fastest speed to give reasonable climb
fly the engine every week...not ground run. ground running does not get
the oil hot enough to get moisture dried out
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Started building July, 2009
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388578#388578
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable Routing for Stromberg on A65 |
John, I used a simple bowden cable with machined "B" nuts I made myself. (Y
ou can also purchase them from ACS.)- I made my own throttle lever (cockp
it control),I can-adjust the-friction on it to prevent the throttle fro
m "creeping" in flight. The cable is attached with said B-nut.- The cable
runs down the left side, exits the firewall and crosses over to the right
side.- The outer casing of the cable is-clamped to the engine mount. Th
e inner cable passes over the oil tank then down to the carb. throttle leve
r, attached with another B-nut.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required) |
I read once in a Continental engine handbook that ANY reciprocating engine
should be run for at least 30 minutes every 7 days at at least 70 % power.
That means one would have to fly the plane at least once per week for at
least 30 minutes. You would probably not want to run the engine for 30
minutes at that power on the ground because of probable improper cooling. C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly
required)
> <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
> Harvey,
> Here is my $0.02 :
> If an Aerovee will make 65 horsepower on a dyno it can have a redeuction
> drive installed of the right ratio it will surely fly a Piet. There will
> be a small parasitic loss due to the re-drive but not much.
> I have zero experience with this conversion as I prefer to use airplane
> engines but for the sake of your own satisfaction I say go for it. How
> long it will last is up for grabs. My experience is in the certified
> world. I do have experience with the Lycoming GO-480 and Continental
> GO-300. They were not long life engines. There were some exceptions and I
> never knew why. Typical TBO's for high output engines(geared and
> supercharged) runs 1200 to 1400 hours. I have a recipe for longevity.
> at least 2 cubic inches per horsepower produced
> clean air and clean high quality oil
> climb at the fastest speed to give reasonable climb
> fly the engine every week...not ground run. ground running does not get
> the oil hot enough to get moisture dried out
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
>
> First flight June 16,2012
> Started building July, 2009
> Lycoming O-235 C2C
> Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388578#388578
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Aerovee Engine |
Hi Harv!
You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this:
For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P
54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet
72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW)
If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% of
the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP,
but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average
static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane
and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around
a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust
with Fords and Continentals.
Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough
guts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try
it solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt
the engine mount and add a PSRU.
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com>wrote:
> plummerharvey@yahoo.com>
>
> Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an
> Aerovee Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your
> climb, cruise and approach RPMs?
>
> I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a
> Pietenpol might be the next project.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --------
> Harv, 485PB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538
>
>
--
Greg Bacon
Message 5
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Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine
Hi Harv!
You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this:
For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P
54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet
72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW)
If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% of
the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP,
but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average
static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane
and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around
a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust
with Fords and Continentals.
Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough
guts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try
it solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt
the engine mount and add a PSRU.
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<plummerharvey@yahoo.com>
Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerovee
Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruise
and approach RPMs?
I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpol
might be the next project.
Thanks.
--------
Harv, 485PB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538
==========
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ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
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Greg Bacon
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Aerovee Engine |
Actually Greg, most Model A props are 76", not 72", so the area would 31.5 s
quare feet, or nearly 100% greater.
Gene Rambo
On Nov 22, 2012, at 10:34 AM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
>
> 300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient.
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine
>
> Hi Harv!
>
> You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this:
>
> For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P
>
> 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet
> 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW)
>
> If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% o
f the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP
, but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average
static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane
and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around
a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust w
ith Fords and Continentals.
>
> Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
>
> Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough g
uts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try i
t solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the
engine mount and add a PSRU.
>
> Greg Bacon
> Prairie Home, MO
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com>
wrote:
o.com>
>
> Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerove
e Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruis
e and approach RPMs?
>
> I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpo
l might be the next project.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --------
> Harv, 485PB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Greg Bacon
>
>
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
==========================
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==========================
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==========================
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==========================
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>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Aerovee Engine |
285 lbs with home made prop. I have an IVO medium that I have not tried yet, but
I expect it will be better.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:34:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine
Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine
Hi Harv!
You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this:
For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P
54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet
72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW)
If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% of the
thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP, but area
IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average static thrust
of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane and Sonex communities
would know. Several Pieters have been passing around a fish scale and
all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust with Fords and Continentals.
Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough guts to
drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try it solo on
a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the engine mount
and add a PSRU.
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer < plummerharvey@yahoo.com > wrote:
Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerovee Conversions
engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruise and approach
RPMs?
I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpol might
be the next project.
Thanks.
--------
Harv, 485PB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538
===========
="_blank"> www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank"> www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank"> www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
===========
st" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
--
Greg Bacon
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Aerovee Engine |
Dang Gary! You're the thrust Master! What is you're prop diameter?
Greg Bacon
Garratt Callahan
gbacon@g-c.com
(573)489-4795
On Nov 22, 2012, at 9:34 AM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
>
> 300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient.
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon
> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine
>
> Hi Harv!
>
> You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this:
>
> For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P
>
> 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet
> 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW)
>
> If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% o
f the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP
, but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average
static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane
and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around
a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust w
ith Fords and Continentals.
>
> Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
>
> Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough g
uts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try i
t solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the
engine mount and add a PSRU.
>
> Greg Bacon
> Prairie Home, MO
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com>
wrote:
o.com>
>
> Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerove
e Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruis
e and approach RPMs?
>
> I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpo
l might be the next project.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --------
> Harv, 485PB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Greg Bacon
>
>
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
> www.buildersbooks.com
> www.homebuilthelp.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 9
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|
That prop was 66x34. After a little more work, it went from 62mph cruise
to 75 at 2700 rpm. The new prop cruises 75 at 2400, but suffers on the
climb. I=99ll most likely re-pitch it before Summer.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gmail
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine
Dang Gary! You're the thrust Master! What is you're prop diameter?
Greg Bacon
Garratt Callahan
gbacon@g-c.com
(573)489-4795
On Nov 22, 2012, at 9:34 AM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more
efficient.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Bacon
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine
Hi Harv!
You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this:
For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P
54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet
72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater,
WOW)
If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56%
of the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect
the dP, but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know
the average static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in
the Volksplane and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have
been passing around a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish
pounds of static thrust with Fords and Continentals.
Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure?
Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough
guts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always
try it solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always
rebuilt the engine mount and add a PSRU.
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer
<plummerharvey@yahoo.com> wrote:
<plummerharvey@yahoo.com>
Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an
Aerovee Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your
climb, cruise and approach RPMs?
I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a
Pietenpol might be the next project.
Thanks.
--------
Harv, 485PB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
--
Greg Bacon
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
=========
ctric.com
>www.buildersbooks.com
uilthelp.com
matronics.com/contribution
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
cs.com
=========
Message 10
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What a great way to spend Thanksgiving. BTW: the one piece wing was much less
complicated, though a bear to handle.
Thanks to Gary Boothe for his advice on how to make the thing square. Thanks to
the very kind individual who gave me the ribs.
We ran the engine two weeks ago at Corvair College 24, hosted by PF Beck and crew
in South Carolina. Another kind and exceptionally generous individual gave
me huge chunks of an engine to make that event possible. Thanks to William Wynne
& crew for their efforts prior to the college.
Shelley & I are blessed.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
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Message 11
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Very nice Kevin...
Thanks(giving) for posting it...!
Finishing up the walking beam assembly and other details here - welder comes in
a week for the next session...
THANKS to everyone on this board...
Do not archive
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388640#388640
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