Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Thu 11/22/12


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:12 AM - Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required) (Jerry Dotson)
     2. 06:26 AM - Re: Throttle Cable Routing for Stromberg on A65 (Michael Perez)
     3. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required) (C N Campbell)
     4. 07:19 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Greg Bacon)
     5. 07:34 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gary Boothe)
     6. 07:52 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gene Rambo)
     7. 07:57 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (gliderx5@comcast.net)
     8. 09:25 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gmail)
     9. 09:41 AM - Re: Aerovee Engine (Gary Boothe)
    10. 12:57 PM - Progress (kevinpurtee)
    11. 06:18 PM - Re: Progress (aerocarjake)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:12:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required)
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
    Harvey, Here is my $0.02 : If an Aerovee will make 65 horsepower on a dyno it can have a redeuction drive installed of the right ratio it will surely fly a Piet. There will be a small parasitic loss due to the re-drive but not much. I have zero experience with this conversion as I prefer to use airplane engines but for the sake of your own satisfaction I say go for it. How long it will last is up for grabs. My experience is in the certified world. I do have experience with the Lycoming GO-480 and Continental GO-300. They were not long life engines. There were some exceptions and I never knew why. Typical TBO's for high output engines(geared and supercharged) runs 1200 to 1400 hours. I have a recipe for longevity. at least 2 cubic inches per horsepower produced clean air and clean high quality oil climb at the fastest speed to give reasonable climb fly the engine every week...not ground run. ground running does not get the oil hot enough to get moisture dried out -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Started building July, 2009 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388578#388578


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:26:29 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Throttle Cable Routing for Stromberg on A65
    John, I used a simple bowden cable with machined "B" nuts I made myself. (Y ou can also purchase them from ACS.)- I made my own throttle lever (cockp it control),I can-adjust the-friction on it to prevent the throttle fro m "creeping" in flight. The cable is attached with said B-nut.- The cable runs down the left side, exits the firewall and crosses over to the right side.- The outer casing of the cable is-clamped to the engine mount. Th e inner cable passes over the oil tank then down to the carb. throttle leve r, attached with another B-nut. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:30:15 AM PST US
    From: "C N Campbell" <cncampbell@windstream.net>
    Subject: Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required)
    I read once in a Continental engine handbook that ANY reciprocating engine should be run for at least 30 minutes every 7 days at at least 70 % power. That means one would have to fly the plane at least once per week for at least 30 minutes. You would probably not want to run the engine for 30 minutes at that power on the ground because of probable improper cooling. C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: $7,000 for an Aerovee from Sonex (assembly required) > <jdotson@centurylink.net> > > Harvey, > Here is my $0.02 : > If an Aerovee will make 65 horsepower on a dyno it can have a redeuction > drive installed of the right ratio it will surely fly a Piet. There will > be a small parasitic loss due to the re-drive but not much. > I have zero experience with this conversion as I prefer to use airplane > engines but for the sake of your own satisfaction I say go for it. How > long it will last is up for grabs. My experience is in the certified > world. I do have experience with the Lycoming GO-480 and Continental > GO-300. They were not long life engines. There were some exceptions and I > never knew why. Typical TBO's for high output engines(geared and > supercharged) runs 1200 to 1400 hours. I have a recipe for longevity. > at least 2 cubic inches per horsepower produced > clean air and clean high quality oil > climb at the fastest speed to give reasonable climb > fly the engine every week...not ground run. ground running does not get > the oil hot enough to get moisture dried out > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > > First flight June 16,2012 > Started building July, 2009 > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388578#388578 > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:19:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Aerovee Engine
    From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67@gmail.com>
    Hi Harv! You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this: For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW) If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% of the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP, but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust with Fords and Continentals. Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough guts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try it solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the engine mount and add a PSRU. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com>wrote: > plummerharvey@yahoo.com> > > Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an > Aerovee Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your > climb, cruise and approach RPMs? > > I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a > Pietenpol might be the next project. > > Thanks. > > -------- > Harv, 485PB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538 > > -- Greg Bacon


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:34:51 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Aerovee Engine
    Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? 300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine Hi Harv! You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this: For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW) If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% of the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP, but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust with Fords and Continentals. Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough guts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try it solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the engine mount and add a PSRU. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com> wrote: <plummerharvey@yahoo.com> Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerovee Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruise and approach RPMs? I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpol might be the next project. Thanks. -------- Harv, 485PB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538 ========== ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== -- Greg Bacon


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:52:40 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Aerovee Engine
    From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
    Actually Greg, most Model A props are 76", not 72", so the area would 31.5 s quare feet, or nearly 100% greater. Gene Rambo On Nov 22, 2012, at 10:34 AM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: > Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? > > 300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine > > Hi Harv! > > You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this: > > For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P > > 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet > 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW) > > If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% o f the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP , but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust w ith Fords and Continentals. > > Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? > > Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough g uts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try i t solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the engine mount and add a PSRU. > > Greg Bacon > Prairie Home, MO > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com> wrote: o.com> > > Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerove e Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruis e and approach RPMs? > > I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpo l might be the next project. > > Thanks. > > -------- > Harv, 485PB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538 > > > > > > > > ========== > ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > le, List Admin. > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > > > > > > > -- > Greg Bacon > > > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.buildersbooks.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:57:58 AM PST US
    From: gliderx5@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Aerovee Engine
    285 lbs with home made prop. I have an IVO medium that I have not tried yet, but I expect it will be better. Malcolm Morrison http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:34:27 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? 300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine Hi Harv! You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this: For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW) If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% of the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP, but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust with Fords and Continentals. Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough guts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try it solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the engine mount and add a PSRU. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer < plummerharvey@yahoo.com > wrote: Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerovee Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruise and approach RPMs? I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpol might be the next project. Thanks. -------- Harv, 485PB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538 =========== ="_blank"> www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank"> www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank"> www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. =========== st" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== http://forums.matronics.com =========== -- Greg Bacon


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:25:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Aerovee Engine
    From: Gmail <gbacon67@gmail.com>
    Dang Gary! You're the thrust Master! What is you're prop diameter? Greg Bacon Garratt Callahan gbacon@g-c.com (573)489-4795 On Nov 22, 2012, at 9:34 AM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: > Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? > > 300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine > > Hi Harv! > > You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this: > > For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P > > 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet > 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW) > > If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% o f the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP , but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust w ith Fords and Continentals. > > Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? > > Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough g uts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try i t solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the engine mount and add a PSRU. > > Greg Bacon > Prairie Home, MO > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com> wrote: o.com> > > Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerove e Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruis e and approach RPMs? > > I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpo l might be the next project. > > Thanks. > > -------- > Harv, 485PB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538 > > > > > > > > ========== > ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > le, List Admin. > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > > > > > > > -- > Greg Bacon > > > > > www.aeroelectric.com > www.buildersbooks.com > www.homebuilthelp.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:41:17 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Aerovee Engine
    That prop was 66x34. After a little more work, it went from 62mph cruise to 75 at 2700 rpm. The new prop cruises 75 at 2400, but suffers on the climb. I=99ll most likely re-pitch it before Summer. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gmail Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine Dang Gary! You're the thrust Master! What is you're prop diameter? Greg Bacon Garratt Callahan gbacon@g-c.com (573)489-4795 On Nov 22, 2012, at 9:34 AM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? 300 lbs, and that was before I reconfigured the prop to be more efficient. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerovee Engine Hi Harv! You've sparked some interesting discussion. Consider this: For aircraft props, Thrust = Area X delta P 54" (Aerovee) prop has a disk area of 15.9 square feet 72" (A65/Ford) prop has a disk area of 28.3 square feet (78% greater, WOW) If the dPs are close to the same, the 54" prop would produce roughly 56% of the thrust of the 72". I realize prop pitch and design will affect the dP, but area IS the major factor. It would be interesting to know the average static thrust of Aerovee applications. I bet some folks in the Volksplane and Sonex communities would know. Several Pieters have been passing around a fish scale and all seem to measure around 275ish pounds of static thrust with Fords and Continentals. Hey Corvair guys, what static thrust did you measure? Anyway, if 56% is close to accurate, I doubt the V-dub would have enough guts to drag it around the pattern safely. Of course, you could always try it solo on a long runway. If it doesn't work out, you can always rebuilt the engine mount and add a PSRU. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Harvey Plummer <plummerharvey@yahoo.com> wrote: <plummerharvey@yahoo.com> Has anyone built and flown a Piet with a VW or more specifically an Aerovee Conversions engine? What type prop did you use? What are your climb, cruise and approach RPMs? I just finished a Sonex with an Aerovee and I am thinking maybe a Pietenpol might be the next project. Thanks. -------- Harv, 485PB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388538#388538 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com -- Greg Bacon www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com ========= ctric.com >www.buildersbooks.com uilthelp.com matronics.com/contribution ========= >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========= cs.com =========


    Message 10


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    Time: 12:57:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Progress
    From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
    What a great way to spend Thanksgiving. BTW: the one piece wing was much less complicated, though a bear to handle. Thanks to Gary Boothe for his advice on how to make the thing square. Thanks to the very kind individual who gave me the ribs. We ran the engine two weeks ago at Corvair College 24, hosted by PF Beck and crew in South Carolina. Another kind and exceptionally generous individual gave me huge chunks of an engine to make that event possible. Thanks to William Wynne & crew for their efforts prior to the college. Shelley & I are blessed. -------- Kevin &quot;Axel&quot; Purtee NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388623#388623 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/center_section_small_145.jpg


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:18:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Progress
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Very nice Kevin... Thanks(giving) for posting it...! Finishing up the walking beam assembly and other details here - welder comes in a week for the next session... THANKS to everyone on this board... Do not archive -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388640#388640




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