Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:55 AM - Tim Willis (Jack)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (Jack Phillips)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: spar mistake (womenfly2)
4. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: spar mistake (Ryan Mueller)
5. 06:09 AM - Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (nightmare)
6. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB)
7. 07:07 AM - Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (AircamperN11MS)
8. 07:09 AM - Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (kevinpurtee)
9. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: spar mistake (Dan Yocum)
10. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: spar mistake (Gary Boothe)
11. 08:05 AM - Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (nightmare)
12. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (Ken Bickers)
13. 10:05 AM - Re: spar mistake (Bill Church)
14. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: spar mistake (Ken Bickers)
15. 10:16 AM - Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (Bill Church)
16. 10:42 AM - Re: Jack, Matt and Gene rendezvous (dewey davenport)
17. 12:15 PM - Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (kevinpurtee)
18. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: spar mistake (TOM STINEMETZE)
19. 12:55 PM - Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (Jerry Dotson)
20. 03:13 PM - gas tank material (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
21. 04:57 PM - Electrical Layout (Jack)
22. 05:13 PM - Re: gas tank material (Greg Cardinal)
23. 06:10 PM - Re: Gusset from Baltic birch (Jim Boyer)
24. 06:36 PM - Re: Gusset from Baltic birch (Kip and Beth Gardner)
25. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: dzus , camlock, or southco (Clif Dawson)
26. 07:29 PM - Re: Electrical Layout (George Abernathy)
Message 1
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Tim, the email I have for you is bouncing. If you want the Piet Directory
please send me your new address to jack@textors.com.
Thanks,
Jack
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
I agree with John. My tank holds 15.5 gallons. The only time I've come
close to using all that capacity is a couple of years ago when I had flown
to Culpeper, Virginia to help Gene Rambo work on his Pietenpol. I had a
tailwind going from Smith Mountain Lake to Culpeper and made the trip in
about an hour and a half. On the return flight, the winds were blowing
pretty well from the northwest and it took me 3 hours to get home. I began
to worry a bit about fuel, but since most runways in this part of the world
are oriented NE-SW, I wasn't thrilled with the prospect of making an extra
landing in a direct crosswind of 15 - 20 knots. I plugged on and made it
with a couple of gallons to spare, but in the words of Axel Olsen (TGWP) "I
didn't like it much!"
Any time I fly for more than an hour and a half, I'm ready to get out and
stretch my legs. It just beats you to death, between the wind and the fact
that there is one and only one position you can sit in when flying a
Pietenpol. I try to plan cross-countries with legs of 90 to 100 miles to
avoid getting too tired.
Unless you've got a real gas guzzler of an engine, I would certainly not
build a tank with more than 15 or 16 gallons capacity. You're just adding
unnecessary weight.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dzus , camlock, or southco
20 Gallons! Knock four gallons off of that and have a little more cargo
room. I have 17 gallons in mine and having been beat up in afternoon during
a two-hour stretch, I can't imagine when you would need potentially four
hours of fuel without having to get out and stretch.
Your mileage may vary.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jan 14, 2013, at 9:43 PM, nightmare wrote:
<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Sorry for being unclear. the access door would be for the fuel tank/storage.
Using the Riblett 613.5 (thicker than the standard 612, and even more so
than the piet rib). center section will also be wider than standard. all
this will allow 20 gallons and a very small amount of cargo space on both
sides of tank. the door would primarily be to access cargo, but figured mine
as well have easy access to the tank as well.
yes, the variety of fastener would be like the ones used for cowlings. i
plan on using the "winged" type, regardless of the brand. Couple of
different versions from each manufacturer. i dont want to have to use a
screwdriver.
Thank You; Paul
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392303#392303
- The --> &n========================<b -
&nbs --> =======================
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| Subject: | Re: spar mistake |
.... a good time for your students to learn how to make a scarf joint.
Its all about education, right.
WF2
--------
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| Subject: | Re: spar mistake |
Perform a scarf joint to recoup a 1/2" at the end of the spar? There's
education, and there's pedantism....
On Jan 15, 2013 7:05 AM, "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> .... a good time for your students to learn how to make a scarf joint.
>
> Its all about education, right.
>
> WF2
>
> --------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392326#392326
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
Thanks for the tank capacity opinions. ill have to rethink what i really need for
endurance. seems like i commonly read about folks adding a second tank, but
you guys are probably right about 20 gallons being overkill.
No opinions on fasteners? i suppose its a chevy, ford, dodge question.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
My 2 cents. This advice is free and worth every penny.
One planning factor I was taught when learning to fly. I set a 3 hour limit on
how long I fly in one leg. In 3 hours someone has to use the toilet! Probably
sooner Pilot or PAX. I like a one hour reserve (there is nothing like being
lost with only 30 min to find yourself!) So no more than 4 hours of fuel. with
a O-200 that is about 20 gallons.
What is the longest a piet pilot flies? Cross country? plus reserve. If you decide
2 hours Plus reserve and you fly a 65 Cont. that is about 12-14 Gallons. Big
difference from 20 gallons.
Blue Skies,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dzus , camlock, or southco
>
> Thanks for the tank capacity opinions. ill have to rethink what i really need
for endurance. seems like i commonly read about folks adding a
> second tank, but you guys are probably right about 20 gallons
> being overkill.
> No opinions on fasteners? i suppose its a chevy, ford, dodge
> question.
> --------
> Paul Donahue
> Started 8-3-12
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392336#392336
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
I can carry 22.5 gallons. I find it nice that I have a choice to carry the extra
gallons if needed. Sometime while making long cross countries there is no
fuel available even though there is a place to land and stretch for awhile. Like
between San Diego and Yuma. Worse yet, Yuma to Casa Grande. Very long legs.
It is also nice that I can fly out 1.5 hours, have breakfast and return home
without refueling. You can always carry less fuel if you don't need it for
the flight, but it is nice to have the choice. I have a 10 gallon nose tank
and 12.5 in the center section.
My 3 cents,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
Hi Paul - My 9.5-gallon-usable tank was too small - no room for contingencies.
My backup was a small gas can secured in the front. Not the safest option.
Having said that, when I flew the airplane 1.4 hours I was more then ready to
get out. I had the correct range for my physical comfort, just no contingency.
My new 15 gallon tank will give me 2.5 hours. That will be perfect. I'll still
want to get out at 1.4 but we'll be able to handle headwinds.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
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| Subject: | Re: spar mistake |
On 01/15/2013 08:02 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Perform a scarf joint to recoup a 1/2" at the end of the spar? There's
> education, and there's pedantism....
But, but, but... it won't have a 29'6" wing! Clearly it won't be a
Pietenpol Air Camper(tm)!
</sarcasm>
But, in the spirit of education, yes, this is a great opportunity to
talk about, and even perform a scarf joint *on another piece of wood.*
In fact, cut two pieces of wood the same length from the same board.
Create a scarf joint in one and leave the other uncut. Then perform
some destructive testing on each one and compare the results. Then
consider how much time and effort it took to perform the scarf joint and
really drive home how much time would have been wasted if they had to do
the same thing on their spar. *That's* education!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: spar mistake |
I just built to the nearest inch...may not be a Piet after all...
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2013, at 7:41 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 01/15/2013 08:02 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>> Perform a scarf joint to recoup a 1/2" at the end of the spar? There's
>> education, and there's pedantism....
>
>
> But, but, but... it won't have a 29'6" wing! Clearly it won't be a
> Pietenpol Air Camper(tm)!
>
> </sarcasm>
>
> But, in the spirit of education, yes, this is a great opportunity to
> talk about, and even perform a scarf joint *on another piece of wood.*
> In fact, cut two pieces of wood the same length from the same board.
> Create a scarf joint in one and leave the other uncut. Then perform
> some destructive testing on each one and compare the results. Then
> consider how much time and effort it took to perform the scarf joint and
> really drive home how much time would have been wasted if they had to do
> the same thing on their spar. *That's* education!
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
Kevin;
what can i expect the corvair to burn?
I'll probably shoot for 17 gallons, but will make my final decision after
i see how much/little cargo space will be available. Thank guys; Paul
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
I've been of two minds about how much fuel to carry. First, I was
certain that with the Pietenpol only two and half hours of fuel was
required. Then, I was certain that four hours of fuel was required.
Certainty is a wonderful thing.
When I began the building process on the Pietenpol, we lived in the
Midwest. In that part of the country, there are airports everywhere.
Most sell fuel. Most have crosswind runways. Many have beautifully
tended turf runways. Why, I asked, would anyone need more than two and
half hours of fuel. When your back gets sore, land, stretch, and buy a
few gallons of gas. Besides, more capacity than that meant unneeded
weight, both in the tank itself and in unused gas that would tend to
be hauled about.
Then we moved to Colorado. Once you leave the metro-Denver area,
airports get pretty sparse. The ones that are out here often don't
have crosswind runways. Turf is a pseudonym for gravel. Many don't
sell fuel. And the wind frequently blows hard. Sometimes from
behind. But when you're watching the fuel gauges and calculating the
time to the next airport that has gas, the wind is always off the nose
and directly across the available runways. So now I'm a believer in
more fuel capacity. Yes, it adds weight -- and complexity. But I've
come to like the sound of the engine roaring at the front of the
airplane. This is the case in my Pacer which cruises at about 105
knots. I expect it to be the case in the Pietenpol, which will cruise
at a fraction of the Pacer's blinding speeds. So my Pietenpol will
carry 20 gallons - 9 in the nose, 11 in the center section -- for
about four hours behind a 2700 cc Corvair.
In sum, I think the decision about how much fuel capacity to
incorporate is a function of many factors. Where you fly is one of
the biggest in that calculation.
Cheers, Ken
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:09 AM, kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul - My 9.5-gallon-usable tank was too small - no room for contingencies.
My backup was a small gas can secured in the front. Not the safest option.
Having said that, when I flew the airplane 1.4 hours I was more then ready to
get out. I had the correct range for my physical comfort, just no contingency.
>
> My new 15 gallon tank will give me 2.5 hours. That will be perfect. I'll still
want to get out at 1.4 but we'll be able to handle headwinds.
>
> --------
> Kevin "Axel" Purtee
> NX899KP
> Austin/San Marcos, TX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392344#392344
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: spar mistake |
Ryan just made me look up a word.
Pedant`ism
n. 1. The office, disposition, or act of a pedant; pedantry.
Ahhh... now it's clear.
BC
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: spar mistake |
Maybe Ryan is vying for the job of Top Pendantate. Surely that would
disconcert the masses.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Ryan just made me look up a word.
>
> Pedant`ism
> n. 1. The office, disposition, or act of a pedant; pedantry.
>
> Ahhh... now it's clear.
>
> BC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392361#392361
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
Paul,
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and answer for Kevin (based on what he just
wrote).
15 gallons gives 2.5 hours (plus 1/2 hour reserve) = 15 /3.0 = 5gph
9.5 gallons gives 1.4 hours (plus 1/2 hour reserve) = 9.5/1.9 = 5 gph.
I'd hazard a guess of about 5 gph. :)
Bill C.
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| Subject: | Re: Jack, Matt and Gene rendezvous |
Douwe and rendezvouers=0AI would love to fly to brodhead this year but it r
eally depends on my up and coming work schedule. If I get off of work I wil
l plan on joining you guys where ever you like. =0A=C2-=0ADewey=0A =0A=0A
________________________________=0A From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@ear
thlink.net>=0ATo: pietenpolgroup <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Fr
iday, January 11, 2013 6:39 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Jack, Matt and Ge
ne rendezvous=0A =0A=0A =0AHey Jack, Matt and Gene, =0A=C2- =0AI
=99d love to tag along with your flight, and if you can=0Apossibly start pu
tting Stewarts on your map as a stopping place, that would be=0Aawesome!!
=0A=C2- =0A=C2- =0AAren=99t there some new guys in this area head
ing up?=C2-=0ADewey Davenport has a piet near Stewarts, I=99ll see
if he wants to head up=0Athis year. =0A=C2- =0AWhat about the West VA con
tingent and Jeff Faith in Louisville ? =0A=C2- =0AThere are a couple more
around Louisville who were talking of going, I=99ll=0Aget in touch w
==========
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
I didn't include the reserve, Bill. 2.5 it burnout. I plan for 6 gph. Usually
do a little better than that.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
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| Subject: | Re: spar mistake |
Of course. A plethora of pedantic potentates. As a public servant we
are required to take courses in this stuff along with obfuscation and
plain old bad manners. Nevertheless, I would vote for Ryan for Top
Pedantate as he was the one with the guts to start this thread. 8^)
By the way, does anybody need a brand new ACS gascolator? I forgot
that I already had one on the shelf that I ordered from Spruce last
year. I will be glad to mail it to you and pay the postage for the
catalog price $69.50. Note that the price did not go up in a year's
time which is somewhat remarkable. e-mail me off-list if you are
interested - toms at mcpcity.com
do not archive
Tom Stinemetze
>>> Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com> 1/15/2013 12:12 PM >>>
<bickers.ken@gmail.com>
Maybe Ryan is vying for the job of Top Pendantate. Surely that would
disconcert the masses.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
<billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Ryan just made me look up a word.
>
> Pedant`ism
> n. 1. The office, disposition, or act of a pedant; pedantry.
>
> Ahhh... now it's clear.
>
> BC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392361#392361
>
>
List Admin.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
My Lycoming burns 5.5 an hour @ 75 mph and 5.8 @80 mph. I never cruised any faster
than that. I have 16 gallons. Enough for me.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Started building July, 2009
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
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| Subject: | gas tank material |
Thanks for all the help on the gas tank material question. Bought a
1=99 X 4=99 sheet of 5052 X .040 and a sheet of .050 to
practice welding on. The thicker .050 is much easier to weld than the
thinner, just guessing, but I=99ll bet the .040 forms easier.
Have read and seen photos of using pop rivets and using sealant on the
R.S. Hoover site, but Bingelis discourages this although not sure why.
Have read about using galvanized sheet and soldering the seams too, but
not recently. I think Jim Markle used galvanized with sealer in his
tank. Thanks Terry for the link to Bingelis tank site.
Dennis
Message 21
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| Subject: | Electrical Layout |
For those that understand electrical stuff please take a look at the
attached sketch of my planned electrical system. I have not included the
mags. Please share any flaws or concerns because this is an area I know very
little about. Years ago I installed a cigarette lighter in my boat, it only
worked when the spot light was on and I burned my nose testing it! Not sure
on the ammeter hookup. Also would appreciate input for installing a
voltmeter instead of the amp gauge.
Thanks!
Jack
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
The original fuel tank on NX18235 was riveted and soldered galvanized
steel. Looked very authentic but started leaking shortly after entering
service.
It was replaced with a TIG welded aluminum tank. No rivets, no solder,
no sealants and most importantly, no worries.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank material
Thanks for all the help on the gas tank material question. Bought a
1=99 X 4=99 sheet of 5052 X .040 and a sheet of .050 to
practice welding on. The thicker .050 is much easier to weld than the
thinner, just guessing, but I=99ll bet the .040 forms easier.
Have read and seen photos of using pop rivets and using sealant on the
R.S. Hoover site, but Bingelis discourages this although not sure why.
Have read about using galvanized sheet and soldering the seams too, but
not recently. I think Jim Markle used galvanized with sealer in his
tank. Thanks Terry for the link to Bingelis tank site.
Dennis
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Gusset from Baltic birch |
Use=C2-=C2-your local supplier; I used marine 3mm for my gussets and it
s more than strong enough.
Jim B.
My local wood supplier MacBeath hardwoods where I purchased my Sitka spruce
had 2'x4'x1/8" baltic birch remnants for $3.00 per sheet. They are very ni
ce looking but only 3 ply.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Gusset from Baltic birch |
Again, don't use it if they can't verify that it's marine grade or a
comparable weatherproof spec. As I said before "Baltic Birch" is most
often made with glue suitable for interior applications only. It is
mainly a decorative plywood, not meant to be structural. We had a guy
here locally who did a restoration of an L-2. He used Baltic Birch
for the floor & it delaminated in about 2 years. The plane was stored/
displayed in a museum hangar. Fortunately, being a steel-tube plane,
there was no ramification besides the inconvenience of having to do a
replacement.
Kip Gardner
On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:09 PM, Jim Boyer wrote:
> Use your local supplier; I used marine 3mm for my gussets and its
> more than strong enough.
> Jim B.
>
>
> My local wood supplier MacBeath hardwoods where I purchased my Sitka
> spruce had 2'x4'x1/8" baltic birch remnants for $3.00 per sheet.
> They are very nice looking but only 3 ply.
>
>
> _-
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Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: dzus , camlock, or southco |
1/2 lb per horsepower per hour is the standard
for our engines, give or take a bit. Also that's
on the horsepower actualy being produced at
any given time.
Clif
I have a question. How come beer goes through
you so fast?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:15 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dzus , camlock, or southco
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Paul,
> I'm going to go out on a limb here, and answer for Kevin (based on what he
> just wrote).
> 15 gallons gives 2.5 hours (plus 1/2 hour reserve) = 15 /3.0 = 5gph
> 9.5 gallons gives 1.4 hours (plus 1/2 hour reserve) = 9.5/1.9 = 5 gph.
>
> I'd hazard a guess of about 5 gph. :)
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392364#392364
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Electrical Layout |
Hi there Jack,=0A=0AThe transponder and encoder can run off the same breake
r max 5 amps. The turn and bank plus gauges could be a 5 amp breaker. Check
your turn and bank and I expect that it runs on about two amps. =0A=0AAh a
generator. Looks like it is wired correctly. A shield over its output lead
would be good also. =0A=0AShields are a thing known as a "faraday" shield.
They usually work best grounded in only one place. The engine block is pro
bably best. If current flows through them they tend to become ground loops.
=0A=0ADon't forget to flash your field=0A=0AGeorge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0A From: Jack <jack@textors.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-li
st@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:56 AM=0ASubject: P
ietenpol-List: Electrical Layout=0A =0A=0AElectrical Layout =0AFor thosetha
tunderstandelectricalstuff please take a look at the attached sketch of my
planned electrical system. I have not included the mags.Please share any fl
aws or concernsbecause this is an area I know very little about. Years ago
Iinstalledacigarettelighter in my boat, it only worked when the spot light
was on and I burned my nose testing it!- Not sure on theammeterhookup. Al
so would appreciate input for installing a voltmeter instead of the amp gau
ge.=0AThanks!=0AJack=0A<<...>> =0AJack Textor=0ADes Moines, IA
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