Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:39 AM - Re: Electrical Layout (Jack)
2. 03:51 AM - Re: gas tank material (Michael Perez)
3. 04:40 AM - Re: gas tank material (helspersew@aol.com)
4. 04:43 AM - Re: gas tank material (nightmare)
5. 05:18 AM - Re: gas tank material (pineymb)
6. 05:25 AM - Model A with carb heat box (helspersew@aol.com)
7. 06:41 AM - Re: Model A with carb heat box (Gene Rambo)
8. 07:05 AM - fish scales list (Greg Bacon)
9. 07:17 AM - fuel capacity (Douwe Blumberg)
10. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: gas tank material (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
11. 07:59 AM - Re: gas tank material (nightmare)
12. 08:04 AM - Re: gas tank material (nightmare)
13. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: gas tank material (helspersew@aol.com)
14. 12:55 PM - Re: Electrical Layout (George Abernathy)
15. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: gas tank material (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
16. 05:25 PM - Re: Electrical Layout (Jack)
17. 09:35 PM - Re: Electrical Layout (Peter W Johnson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Electrical Layout |
George thanks for the info! I googled flashing the field and may leave that
to someone that knows more about it.Also when you mention smaller breakers,
should the wire size be reduced, I think Bengalis stated that relationship?
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Abernathy
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
Hi there Jack,
The transponder and encoder can run off the same breaker max 5 amps. The
turn and bank plus gauges could be a 5 amp breaker. Check your turn and bank
and I expect that it runs on about two amps.
Ah a generator. Looks like it is wired correctly. A shield over its output
lead would be good also.
Shields are a thing known as a "faraday" shield. They usually work best
grounded in only one place. The engine block is probably best. If current
flows through them they tend to become ground loops.
Don't forget to flash your field
George
_____
From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
For those that understand electrical stuff please take a look at the
attached sketch of my planned electrical system. I have not included the
mags. Please share any flaws or concerns because this is an area I know very
little about. Years ago I installed a cigarette lighter in my boat, it only
worked when the spot light was on and I burned my nose testing it! Not sure
on the ammeter hookup. Also would appreciate input for installing a
voltmeter instead of the amp gauge.
Thanks!
Jack
<<...>>
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
I concur with the TIG welded aluminum. I have the same type tank in the nose...
5052 aluminum, I believe mine is .035" thick, all TIG welded.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
This my 2nd tank. I used .050 5052. Great tank but I regret putting the riv
ets in the perimeter flanges. I should have just tack-welded to hold it tog
ether until ready to final weld. Every welded-over rivet location is a pote
ntial leak. I currently have two rivet locations with seeping leaks, (lucki
ly they are right on top) so will try to stop by "top-coating" with tank se
aler.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 5:51 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank material
I concur with the TIG welded aluminum. I have the same type tank in the nos
e... 5052 aluminum, I believe mine is .035" thick, all TIG welded.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
Dennis; are you gas welding or tig?
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392407#392407
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
Keep it simple 5052 x .050 tig weld
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392412#392412
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00034_578.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00028_406.jpg
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Subject: | Model A with carb heat box |
Does anyone have data or anecdotal information on how much extra RPM one ge
ts by shutting off the "perpetual" carburetor heated air on a model A?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
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Subject: | Re: Model A with carb heat box |
I know that you shouldn't put any restriction ahead of the carburetor (such a
s a filter) unless it has been "pressure balanced". Look at website called "
Renner's Corner"
Gene
On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:25 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone have data or anecdotal information on how much extra RPM one g
ets by shutting off the "perpetual" carburetor heated air on a model A?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> <Model A w carb heat box.jpg>
Message 8
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Subject: | fish scales list |
Gene,
Please take me off the list for the fish scales for now.
Thanks,
--
Greg Bacon
Prairie Home, MO
NX114D(Mountain Piet)
Message 9
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I too bumped up my fuel capacity when it looked as if CO move MIGHT be in
the future. I have about 20 gallons in a bumped out center section tank of
aluminum (feeding a C-90 which drinks more). I am well aware that I will
rarely fill it all the way up, BUT I do anticipate the occasional time when
I want to "bite the bullet" and fly some long legs just to "get there", like
going to Brodhead. Also, as Ken mentioned, there are many places in the
country where 30 minutes reserve at Piet speeds seems pretty nominal.
Another point regarding "the extra weight" of a larger tank. While
fabricating my tank, I weighed it with shorter "normal" sides and with the
taller sides to allow 20 gallons and the weight difference was minimal.
Maybe I'm hauling around an extra pound or two.
Definitely a decision based upon your location, trip planning habits, resale
plans and. bladder capacity.
Douwe
Ps. Is Ryan a "pendanterist"???
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
TIG I have a hydrogen torch, but am not real comfortable with the flux. It
Kent White's flux that I bought years ago at Osh. Stuff is like muriatic
acid in that it will rust anything metal in anywhere near the stuff. Took a
couple TIG classes at the local adult education a year or two ago, but will
not be able to make welds near as nice as Michael Perez tank, which is why I
bought the practice material.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: nightmare
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gas tank material
<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Dennis; are you gas welding or tig?
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392407#392407
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
me too. been gas welding steel for years with help from Kent White, havent tried
the aluminum welding yet but have the flux,video,booklet. let me know how it
goes! ill do the same. i may practice a little within next couple of weeks.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392433#392433
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
sorry, misread your post about you going with the tig.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392434#392434
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
I bought all that Kent White AL welding stuff, torch, flux, everything. Wen
t to Oshkosh to see him explain it, watched his videos. For the life of me
I could NOT get the hang of it. Then I went out and spent more money to get
a TIG. Now I can weld Aluminum.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 10:00 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gas tank material
om>
me too. been gas welding steel for years with help from Kent White, havent
tried
the aluminum welding yet but have the flux,video,booklet. let me know how i
t
goes! ill do the same. i may practice a little within next couple of weeks.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392433#392433
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Electrical Layout |
Hello Jack,=0A=0AThe wire sizes are ok. Larger is=C2- better for voltage
drop. The main purpose of circuit breakers seems to be protecting the wire.
Most aircraft radios and instruments die pretty quietly. =0A=0AThe wire fo
r the trim could be larger for ruggedness and=C2- for voltage drop. =0AMo
tors pull a lot of current on when they start. Usually about 6 times the ru
nning current. That does not mean the circuit breaker or fuse needs to be 6
times the running current. Circuit breakers and fuses are made to support
the higher current during motor start.=C2-=C2- =0A=0AWire tends to be s
ized to fit the connectors on the various things. For instance the encoder
will most likely have a sub =0AD connector.=C2- 22 and 24 gauge=C2- fit
nicely in the solder cups or crimp pins. The newer radios have high densit
y sub D connectors and a 22 gauge is going to be difficult to fit. For powe
r they sometimes supply a special pin that will accept a larger wire. =0A
=0APower and ground wires need to be big enough for voltage drop=C2- and
still fit in the connectors. The manufacturers of most aircraft stuff are p
retty good at recommending the minimum wire sizes and circuit breaker requi
rements. One place that can be problems is encoder power. The power switche
s in the older transponders weren't strong enough for the solid state encod
ers. They had or may still have a heater in them to stabilize the altitude
sensors. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Jack <jac
k@textors.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, Janua
ry 16, 2013 10:39 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout=0A
=0A=0AElectrical Layout =0AGeorge thanks for the info! I googled=0Aflashin
g the field and may leave that to someone that knows more about it
Also=0Awhen you mention smaller breakers, should the wire size be reduced,
I think=0ABengalis stated that relationship? =0A=C2-=0AJack Textor=0ADes
Moines, IA=0A=C2-=0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-
pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of George Abernathy=0ASent: Tuesday, January 15, 20
13=0A9:29 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-Li
st:=0AElectrical Layout=0A=C2-=0AHi there=0AJack,=0A=0AThe transponder an
d encoder can run off the same breaker max 5 amps. The turn=0Aand bank plus
gauges could be a 5 amp breaker. Check your turn and bank and I=0Aexpect t
hat it runs on about two amps. =0A=0AAh a generator. Looks like it is wired
correctly. A shield over its output lead=0Awould be good also. =0A=0AShiel
ds are a thing known as a "faraday" shield. They usually work=0Abest ground
ed in only one place. The engine block is probably best. If current=0Aflows
through them they tend to become ground loops. =0A=0ADon't forget to flash
your field=0A=0AGeorge=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A____________________________
____=0A =0AFrom:Jack=0A<jack@textors.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.co
m =0ASent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013=0A11:56 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List
:=0AElectrical Layout=0A=C2-=0AFor=0Athosethatunderstandelectricalstuff p
lease take a look=0Aat the attached sketch of my planned electrical system.
I have not included the=0Amags.Please share any flaws or concernsbecause t
his is an area=0AI know very little about. Years ago Iinstalledacigarette
=0Alighter in my boat, it only worked when the spot light was on and I burn
ed my=0Anose testing it!=C2- Not sure on theammeter hookup. Also=0Awould
appreciate input for installing a voltmeter instead of the amp gauge.=0ATha
nks!=0AJack=0A<<...>> =0AJack Textor=0ADes Moines, IA=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A
=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.
=============
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: gas tank material |
I bought just the booklet, flux and the lens from him several years ago.
He hasn=99t been there the last 2-3yrs though, I heard the
demonstrations and sales couldn=99t cover his costs to be there so
he could make more money doing custom auto repairs. Joe Maj can explain
it over in the EAA gas welding booth and show you how to do it hands on.
Its as close to one on one as you can get. Something that Joe will tell
you that Kent White doesn=99t is to use hydrogen gas. It burns at
a lower temp and you don=99t have to chase the puddle so quickly,
there is more time to work it. Far easier for beginners like me. Still
tried the TIG at the lincoln booth and it seemed like a piece of cake.
Didn=99t realize that they let you try it out with 1/8=9D
aluminum which is about the easiest to weld there is. Thinner is way
harder. Never the less I will keep practicing until I can weld my own
tank. A friend suggested today that I make the top of the tank a hex or
octagon and not have to weld up all the relief cuts for the curve.
Dennis
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gas tank material
I bought all that Kent White AL welding stuff, torch, flux, everything.
Went to Oshkosh to see him explain it, watched his videos. For the life
of me I could NOT get the hang of it. Then I went out and spent more
money to get a TIG. Now I can weld Aluminum.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 16, 2013 10:00 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gas tank material
<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
me too. been gas welding steel for years with help from Kent White,
havent tried
the aluminum welding yet but have the flux,video,booklet. let me know
how it
goes! ill do the same. i may practice a little within next couple of
weeks.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392433#392433
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Electrical Layout |
Good ideas George, thanks. My T&B says 13.75v and .8 A. Also for the voltmet
er does it connect between ground and bus bar with no fuse?
Thanks for all the help!
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:54 PM, George Abernathy <avionixoz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello Jack,
>
> The wire sizes are ok. Larger is better for voltage drop. The main purpos
e of circuit breakers seems to be protecting the wire. Most aircraft radios a
nd instruments die pretty quietly.
>
> The wire for the trim could be larger for ruggedness and for voltage drop
.
> Motors pull a lot of current on when they start. Usually about 6 times the
running current. That does not mean the circuit breaker or fuse needs to be
6 times the running current. Circuit breakers and fuses are made to support
the higher current during motor start.
>
> Wire tends to be sized to fit the connectors on the various things. For in
stance the encoder will most likely have a sub
> D connector. 22 and 24 gauge fit nicely in the solder cups or crimp pins
. The newer radios have high density sub D connectors and a 22 gauge is goin
g to be difficult to fit. For power they sometimes supply a special pin that
will accept a larger wire.
>
> Power and ground wires need to be big enough for voltage drop and still f
it in the connectors. The manufacturers of most aircraft stuff are pretty go
od at recommending the minimum wire sizes and circuit breaker requirements. O
ne place that can be problems is encoder power. The power switches in the ol
der transponders weren't strong enough for the solid state encoders. They ha
d or may still have a heater in them to stabilize the altitude sensors.
>
>
> From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:39 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
>
> George thanks for the info! I googled flashing the field and may leave tha
t to someone that knows more about itAlso when you mention smaller b
reakers, should the wire size be reduced, I think Bengalis stated that relat
ionship?
>
> Jack Textor
> Des Moines, IA
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Abernathy
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:29 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
>
> Hi there Jack,
>
> The transponder and encoder can run off the same breaker max 5 amps. The t
urn and bank plus gauges could be a 5 amp breaker. Check your turn and bank a
nd I expect that it runs on about two amps.
>
> Ah a generator. Looks like it is wired correctly. A shield over its output
lead would be good also.
>
> Shields are a thing known as a "faraday" shield. They usually work best gr
ounded in only one place. The engine block is probably best. If current flow
s through them they tend to become ground loops.
>
> Don't forget to flash your field
>
> George
>
>
> From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:56 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
>
> For those that understand electrical stuff please take a look at the attac
hed sketch of my planned electrical system. I have not included the mags. Pl
ease share any flaws or concerns because this is an area I know very little a
bout. Years ago I installed a cigarette lighter in my boat, it only worked w
hen the spot light was on and I burned my nose testing it! Not sure on the a
mmeter hookup. Also would appreciate input for installing a voltmeter instea
d of the amp gauge.
> Thanks!
> Jack
> <<...>>
> Jack Textor
> Des Moines, IA
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> http://www.matro====================
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 17
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Subject: | Electrical Layout |
Jack,
Attached is a pdf of my 601XL electricals. I have an O-200 on it so the
circuit for your Piet should be similar.
If you connect the ammeter as shown, you will not get the very large
starter current pushing the needle off the scale.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Thursday, 17 January 2013 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
Good ideas George, thanks. My T&B says 13.75v and .8 A. Also for the
voltmeter does it connect between ground and bus bar with no fuse?
Thanks for all the help!
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:54 PM, George Abernathy <avionixoz@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hello Jack,
The wire sizes are ok. Larger is better for voltage drop. The main
purpose of circuit breakers seems to be protecting the wire. Most
aircraft radios and instruments die pretty quietly.
The wire for the trim could be larger for ruggedness and for voltage
drop.
Motors pull a lot of current on when they start. Usually about 6 times
the running current. That does not mean the circuit breaker or fuse
needs to be 6 times the running current. Circuit breakers and fuses are
made to support the higher current during motor start.
Wire tends to be sized to fit the connectors on the various things. For
instance the encoder will most likely have a sub
D connector. 22 and 24 gauge fit nicely in the solder cups or crimp
pins. The newer radios have high density sub D connectors and a 22 gauge
is going to be difficult to fit. For power they sometimes supply a
special pin that will accept a larger wire.
Power and ground wires need to be big enough for voltage drop and still
fit in the connectors. The manufacturers of most aircraft stuff are
pretty good at recommending the minimum wire sizes and circuit breaker
requirements. One place that can be problems is encoder power. The power
switches in the older transponders weren't strong enough for the solid
state encoders. They had or may still have a heater in them to stabilize
the altitude sensors.
_____
From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
George thanks for the info! I googled flashing the field and may leave
that to someone that knows more about itAlso when you mention
smaller breakers, should the wire size be reduced, I think Bengalis
stated that relationship?
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George
Abernathy
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
Hi there Jack,
The transponder and encoder can run off the same breaker max 5 amps. The
turn and bank plus gauges could be a 5 amp breaker. Check your turn and
bank and I expect that it runs on about two amps.
Ah a generator. Looks like it is wired correctly. A shield over its
output lead would be good also.
Shields are a thing known as a "faraday" shield. They usually work best
grounded in only one place. The engine block is probably best. If
current flows through them they tend to become ground loops.
Don't forget to flash your field
George
_____
From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout
For those that understand electrical stuff please take a look at the
attached sketch of my planned electrical system. I have not included the
mags. Please share any flaws or concerns because this is an area I know
very little about. Years ago I installed a cigarette lighter in my boat,
it only worked when the spot light was on and I burned my nose testing
it! Not sure on the ammeter hookup. Also would appreciate input for
installing a voltmeter instead of the amp gauge.
Thanks!
Jack
<<...>>
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
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