---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/17/13: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:53 AM - Re: Electrical Layout (George Abernathy) 2. 04:22 AM - Re: Re: gas tank material (Michael Perez) 3. 12:49 PM - Steel Parts (Harvey Plummer) 4. 01:11 PM - Re: Steel Parts (Jerry Dotson) 5. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Steel Parts (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 6. 02:01 PM - Re: Electrical Layout (George Abernathy) 7. 02:30 PM - Re: Model A with carb heat box (BYD) 8. 02:31 PM - Re: Steel Parts (aerocarjake) 9. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: Steel Parts (airlion2@gmail.com) 10. 02:44 PM - Re: Steel Parts (Bill Church) 11. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: Steel Parts (Dave Millikan) 12. 07:58 PM - Re: Steel Parts (aerocarjake) 13. 09:27 PM - Re: Steel Parts (Greg Cardinal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:11 AM PST US From: George Abernathy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout =0AHi Jack,=0A=0AA quick look at an old Cessna 150 manual might be in order here. It probably has a similar generator setup.=0A=0AI binged and found t his link =0A=0Awww.verticalpower.com/docs/Top_10_Wiring_Mistakes.pdf=0A=0A =0AI=0A drew up a schematic for the generator circuit showing the location of =0Athe charge discharge amp meter. Generators tend to be a little noisy and=0A shielded wire is the best thing to shut it up. An easy place to grou nd =0Athe shield is at the generator. Putting some "radio noise" caps on th e =0Agenerator output terminal=C2- and the field terminal of the regulato r may =C2-=0A help. =0A=0AI just noticed that I forgot the starter switch on my diagram. No time to redraw it tonight. Sorry=0A=0AIf=0A you are usin g a firewall grounding point is important not to forget the=0A ground Strap to the engine. Alternators and=0A generators don't charge without it. But the engine will start! The =0Acontrol cables metal primer and fuel lines wi ll conduct enough current =0Ato start the engine. =0A=0AMake sure that you use a continuous duty =0Abattery contactor. It should be hefty enough to co nduct and interrupt =0Athe current from the starter contactor. =0A=0AWarnin g story time:=0A=0AWhen=0A I was a line vermin in the worlds second largest nuclear navy one of my=0A jobs was to observe while the 4360 engines were started. One hot day =0Awe=0A started the right engine as normal and ran it for its every four day =0Aallotted time. We shut it down after starting th e left engine up. The =0Amechanic "Budzo" was looking at the left engine. I heard a faint yell =0Afollowed by bodily harm threats from our squadron bo xer. While putting =0Athe plugs in the Power recovery turbines the prop sta rted to turn. Only =0Ahis reflexes prevented a TKO. =0A=0ATurned out that t he starter contactor had engaged by itself! We moved=0A no switches. Turnin g off the battery=C2- master switch stopped the prop. =0A=0AWe=0A put a s ign on the aircraft doors and went to maintenance control to =0Araise a wor k order. The avionics guys showed up to work on something and=0A plugged ou r beat up old NC-5 power cart in. The prop spun. They arrived=0A =C2- bef ore we could finish the paper work. =0A=0ALuckily the prop once again misse d the cart cables and people. =0A=0AThe moral :=0A=0AProps=0A are dangerous and even if the engine doesn't start a spinning prop is =0Areally upsettin g. Thinking about what could go wrong is not a bad idea. =0A=0ABut wait the re's more it slices and dices. =0A=0AGenerators=0A depend on the voltage re gulator to disconnect them from the battery. If=0A the isolator contact in the regulator sticks it will become a motor. =0AUnlike alternators they do not have diodes. =0A=0AThe procedure on =0Amost aircraft ( warning this is very old memory sludge) is to start the =0Aengines and then turn on=0A the generators. Observing the charge discharge amp meter to make sure =0Athings are good. The regulator grounds the field. If it is not grounded =0Athings don't work right. =0A=0AGeorge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________ _________=0A From: Jack =0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics. com" =0ASent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12: 25 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout=0A =0A=0AGood ideas George, thanks. My T&B says 13.75v and .8 A. Also for the voltmeter does it connect between ground and bus bar with no fuse?=0AThanks for all the help !=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0AJack Textor=0A=0AOn Jan 16, 2013, at 2:54 PM, Ge orge Abernathy wrote:=0A=0A=0AHello Jack,=0A>=0A>The wire sizes are ok. Larger is=C2- better for voltage drop. The main purpos e of circuit breakers seems to be protecting the wire. Most aircraft radios and instruments die pretty quietly. =0A>=0A>The wire for the trim could be larger for ruggedness and=C2- for voltage drop. =0A>Motors pull a lot of current on when they start. Usually about 6 times the running current. Tha t does not mean the circuit breaker or fuse needs to be 6 times the running current. Circuit breakers and fuses are made to support the higher current during motor start.=C2-=C2- =0A>=0A>Wire tends to be sized to fit the connectors on the various things. For instance the encoder will most likely have a sub =0A>D connector.=C2- 22 and 24 gauge=C2- fit nicely in the solder cups or crimp pins. The newer radios have high density sub D=0A conn ectors and a 22 gauge is going to be difficult to fit. For power they somet imes supply a special pin that will accept a larger wire. =0A>=0A>Power and ground wires need to be big enough for voltage drop=C2- and still fit in the connectors. The manufacturers of most aircraft stuff are pretty good a t recommending the minimum wire sizes and circuit breaker requirements. One place that can be problems is encoder power. The power switches in the old er transponders weren't strong enough for the solid state encoders. They ha d or may still have a heater in them to stabilize the altitude sensors. =0A >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A> From: Jack =0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, J anuary 16, 2013 10:39 PM=0A>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout =0A> =0A>=0A>Electrical Layout =0A>George thanks for the info! I googled =0Aflashing the field and may leave that to someone that knows more about i tAlso=0Awhen you mention smaller breakers, should the wire size be reduced, I think=0ABengalis stated that relationship? =0A>=C2-=0A>Jack T extor=0A>Des Moines, IA=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A>________________________________ =0A> =0A>From:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-piete npol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Abernathy=0A>Sent: Tues day, January 15, 2013=0A9:29 PM=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A>Subj ect: Re: Pietenpol-List:=0AElectrical Layout=0A>=C2-=0A>Hi there=0AJack, =0A>=0A>The transponder and encoder can run off the same breaker max 5 amps . The turn=0Aand bank plus gauges could be a 5 amp breaker. Check your turn and bank and I=0Aexpect that it runs on about two amps. =0A>=0A>Ah a gener ator. Looks like it is wired correctly. A shield over its output lead=0Awou ld be good also. =0A>=0A>Shields are a thing known as a "faraday" shield. T hey usually work=0Abest grounded in only one place. The engine block is pro bably best. If current=0Aflows through them they tend to become ground loop s. =0A>=0A>Don't forget to flash your field=0A>=0A>George=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2 -=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A> =0A>From:Jack=0A=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, January 16 , 2013=0A11:56 AM=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List:=0AElectrical Layout=0A>=C2- =0A>For=0Athosethatunderstandelectricalstuff please take a look=0Aat the at tached sketch of my planned electrical system. I have not included the=0Ama gs.Please share any flaws or concernsbecause this is an area=0AI know very little about. Years ago Iinstalledacigarette=0Alighter in my boat, it only worked when the spot light was on and I burned my=0Anose testing it!=C2- Not sure on theammeter hookup. Also=0Awould appreciate input for installing a voltmeter instead of the amp gauge.=0A>Thanks!=0A>Jack=0A><<...>> =0A>Ja ck Textor=0A>Des Moines, IA=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>http: //www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=C2-=0A>http://www.matro==== ================ =0A>=0A>=0A>==== =======0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A ===========0Acs.com=0A=========== =========================0A matronics.com/contribution=0A=============== =========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:44 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gas tank material Thank you Dennis, but I can't take credit for the welding itself. I fabricated the tank, but decided to send it out for welding. My article in a past news letter mentions whom did the welding. (I don't remember his name at the moment.) Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel Parts From: "Harvey Plummer" I purchase a set of Pietenpol plans. I thought I would spend some winter days making steel parts. I noticed that Aircraft Spruce has a Steel Kit for the Piet. It includes .063", .090" and .125" thick 4130 sheets. When studying the plans I see parts made of .030", .060", .075" and .090" thick material. Can all parts be made using the ACS kit? Thanks. Harv -------- Harv, 485PB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392523#392523 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts From: "Jerry Dotson" Harv, The control horns are made from 0.030. I just ordered what I needed....didn't use the kit. -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Started building July, 2009 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392527#392527 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:09 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts Ordering strip steel in 4130 is the easiest way to make most of the fittings and I believe ACS sells the various widths needed so you don't have to buy the sheets and have them sheared. It is a little more expensive that way but makes part making pretty easy. I wouldn't rely on anything ACS says is a 'kit' for anything but just go thru your plans carefully one night and note down in a few columns how many feet of the various widths and thicknesses you'll need and you'll come up with a more accurate accounting I believe of the metal needed to fabricate most of the Pietenpol fittings. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:31 PM PST US From: George Abernathy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout Hi Jack,=0A=0AThis morning I realized that I didn't answer your question ab out the volt meter. =0A=0A=0AIt should have a fuse or circuit breaker. The buss bar and battery can supply more current than the voltmeter wires can t ake. This applies to all electrical things. If big wires connect to small =C2- wires, protect the small wires. =0A=0A=0AGeorge=0A=0A=0A=0A_________ _______________________=0A From: George Abernathy =0AT o: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: T hursday, January 17, 2013 9:50 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout=0A =0A=0AHi Jack,=0A=0AA quick look at an old Cessna 150 manual mig ht be in order here. It probably has a similar generator setup.=0A=0AI bing ed and found this link =0A=0Awww.verticalpower.com/docs/Top_10_Wiring_Mista kes.pdf=0A=0A=0AI=0A drew up a schematic for the generator circuit showing the location of =0Athe charge discharge amp meter. Generators tend to be a little noisy and=0A shielded wire is the best thing to shut it up. An easy place to ground =0Athe shield is at the generator. Putting some "radio nois e" caps on the =0Agenerator output terminal=C2- and the field terminal of the regulator may =C2-=0A help. =0A=0AI just noticed that I forgot the s tarter switch on my diagram. No time to redraw it tonight. Sorry=0A=0AIf=0A you are using a firewall grounding point is important not to forget the=0A ground Strap to the engine. Alternators and=0A generators don't charge wit hout it. But the engine will start! The =0Acontrol cables metal primer and fuel lines will conduct enough current =0Ato start the engine. =0A=0AMake s ure that you use a continuous duty =0Abattery contactor. It should be hefty enough to conduct and interrupt =0Athe current from the starter contactor. =0A=0AWarning story time:=0A=0AWhen=0A I was a line vermin in the worlds s econd largest nuclear navy one of my=0A jobs was to observe while the 4360 engines were started. One hot day =0Awe=0A started the right engine as norm al and ran it for its every four day =0Aallotted time. We shut it down afte r starting the left engine up. The =0Amechanic "Budzo" was looking at the l eft engine. I heard a faint yell =0Afollowed by bodily harm threats from ou r squadron boxer. While putting =0Athe plugs in the Power recovery turbines the prop started to turn. Only =0Ahis reflexes prevented a TKO. =0A=0ATurn ed out that the starter contactor had engaged by itself! We moved=0A no swi tches. Turning off the battery=C2- master switch stopped the prop. =0A=0A We=0A put a sign on the aircraft doors and went to maintenance control to =0Araise a work order. The avionics guys showed up to work on something and =0A plugged our beat up old NC-5 power cart in. The prop spun. They arrived =0A =C2- before we could finish the paper work. =0A=0ALuckily the prop on ce again missed the cart cables and people. =0A=0AThe moral :=0A=0AProps=0A are dangerous and even if the engine doesn't start a spinning prop is =0Ar eally upsetting. Thinking about what could go wrong is not a bad idea. =0A =0ABut wait there's more it slices and dices. =0A=0AGenerators=0A depend on the voltage regulator to disconnect them from the battery. If=0A the isola tor contact in the regulator sticks it will become a motor. =0AUnlike alter nators they do not have diodes. =0A=0AThe procedure on =0Amost aircraft ( w arning this is very old memory sludge) is to start the =0Aengines and then turn on=0A the generators. Observing the charge discharge amp meter to make sure =0Athings are good. The regulator grounds the field. If it is not gro unded =0Athings don't work right. =0A=0AGeorge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________=0A From: Jack =0ATo: "pietenpol- list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Thursday, Janua ry 17, 2013 12:25 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electrical Layout=0A =0A=0AGood ideas George, thanks. My T&B says 13.75v and .8 A. Also for the voltmeter does it connect between ground and bus bar with no fuse?=0AThanks for all the help!=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0AJack Textor=0A=0AOn Jan 16, 201 3, at 2:54 PM, George Abernathy wrote:=0A=0A=0AHello Jack,=0A>=0A>The wire sizes are ok. Larger is=C2- better for voltage drop . The main purpose of circuit breakers seems to be protecting the wire. Mos t aircraft radios and instruments die pretty quietly. =0A>=0A>The wire for the trim could be larger for ruggedness and=C2- for voltage drop. =0A>Mot ors pull a lot of current on when they start. Usually about 6 times the run ning current. That does not mean the circuit breaker or fuse needs to be 6 times the running current. Circuit breakers and fuses are made to support t he higher current=0A during motor start.=C2-=C2- =0A>=0A>Wire tends to be sized to fit the connectors on the various things. For instance the enco der will most likely have a sub =0A>D connector.=C2- 22 and 24 gauge=C2 - fit nicely in the solder cups or crimp pins. The newer radios have high density sub D=0A connectors and a 22 gauge is going to be difficult to fit . For power they sometimes supply a special pin that will accept a larger w ire. =0A>=0A>Power and ground wires need to be big enough for voltage drop =C2- and still fit in the connectors. The manufacturers of most aircraft stuff are pretty good at recommending the minimum wire sizes and circuit br eaker requirements. One place that can be problems is encoder power. The po wer switches in the older transponders weren't strong enough for the solid state encoders. They had or may still have a heater in them to stabilize th e altitude sensors. =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>___________________________ _____=0A> From: Jack =0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:39 PM=0A>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-L ist: Electrical Layout=0A> =0A>=0A>Electrical Layout =0A>George thanks for the info! I googled=0Aflashing the field and may leave that to someone tha t knows more about itAlso=0Awhen you mention smaller breakers, sho uld the wire size be reduced, I think=0ABengalis stated that relationship? =0A>=C2-=0A>Jack Textor=0A>Des Moines, IA=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A>______________ __________________=0A> =0A>From:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Abern athy=0A>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013=0A9:29 PM=0A>To: pietenpol-list@mat ronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:=0AElectrical Layout=0A>=C2-=0A >Hi there=0AJack,=0A>=0A>The transponder and encoder can run off the same b reaker max 5 amps. The turn=0Aand bank plus gauges could be a 5 amp breaker . Check your turn and bank and I=0Aexpect that it runs on about two amps. =0A>=0A>Ah a generator. Looks like it is wired correctly. A shield over its output lead=0Awould be good also. =0A>=0A>Shields are a thing known as a " faraday" shield. They usually work=0Abest grounded in only one place. The e ngine block is probably best. If current=0Aflows through them they tend to become ground loops. =0A>=0A>Don't forget to flash your field=0A>=0A>George =0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A> =0A>From:J ack=0A=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Wedn esday, January 16, 2013=0A11:56 AM=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List:=0AElectrical Layout=0A>=C2-=0A>For=0Athosethatunderstandelectricalstuff please take a look=0Aat the attached sketch of my planned electrical system. I have not included the=0Amags.Please share any flaws or concernsbecause this is an ar ea=0AI know very little about. Years ago Iinstalledacigarette=0Alighter in my boat, it only worked when the spot light was on and I burned my=0Anose t esting it!=C2- Not sure on theammeter hookup. Also=0Awould appreciate inp ut for installing a voltmeter instead of the amp gauge.=0A>Thanks!=0A>Jack =0A><<...>> =0A>Jack Textor=0A>Des Moines, IA=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2- =0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>http://forums.matr onics.com=0A>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=C2-=0A>http://www. matro==================== =0A>=0A> =0A>======================= =============0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? Pietenpol-List=0A=================== =================0Acs.com=0A===== ======0Amatronics.com/contribution=0A========= = =0A<="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.m atronicsfollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com/">htt p://foru========== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A with carb heat box From: "BYD" Although I fabricated a carb-heat system for my Model-A engine, I have not operated it at high RPM enough to answer your question. What I have experienced at low to mid-range RPMs was slight to no RPM change. Ive been planning on using a remote laser-thermometer to check temps at the muff, air duct and carburetor throat to see what the temperature changes might be. Gene I hadnt heard about the air filter restriction before and will have to play with that also when I get back to the project. Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392532#392532 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p6080010_180.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts From: "aerocarjake" Yes, the famous Pietenpol kit arrives as a big crate in your driveway..... The crate is EMPTY so you make the airplane out of the crate itself....(ha!) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392533#392533 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts From: airlion2@gmail.com hi Jerry, my tail brace wires are steel and they are subject to rust, my friend here says that there is a coating that gun makers use on steel to protect it. Do you know about this? How is your flying machine. Doing? I have 4 hours on Mine now and it flies great. gardiner Sent from my iPad On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:11 PM, "Jerry Dotson" wrote: > > Harv, > The control horns are made from 0.030. I just ordered what I needed....didn't use the kit. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > > First flight June 16,2012 > Started building July, 2009 > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392527#392527 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts From: "Bill Church" I believe ACS has a disclaimer at the bottom of their pages warning that the "kits" are based on lists provided to them by others. Because the "kit" lists different thicknesses than are found on the Pietenpol plans, I wonder if the list might actually be based on the Grega GN-1 plans, which has different metalwork than the Air Camper. I would recommend that you spend some time going through your plans and do your own calculations of what you will need. And, as Mike suggested, consider buying pre-sheared strips, unless you have access to a metal shear. In fact, I would recommend that you calculate your own list of materials for the wood as well. For instance, the plywood kit lists more than 7 full sheets of plywood; there simply isn't that much plywood in a Piet. Finally, you may want to hold off on making all of the metal fittings ahead of time. Some fittings will need to be made to suit the woodwork that you build. Because these are plans-built wooden aircraft, no two will be exactly the same. And slight differences in woodwork can and will result in certain metal parts being required to be made to fit. The difference might only be something like a hole location shifting 1/16" or even 1/32", but that variance can mean the difference between a part that fits, and one that doesn't. Of course, most builders end up making a lot of fittings more than once. Consider it to be a part of the learning process. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392534#392534 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:45 PM PST US From: Dave Millikan Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts Bernie didn't have ACS..Try Lowes for sheet steel, cheaper, no shipping. J-3s were built from 1020 steel. for years -NX1QS.. Dave millikan..FLA --- On Thu, 1/17/13, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts > I believe ACS has a disclaimer at the bottom of their pages warning that th e "kits" are based on lists provided to them by others.- Because the "kit " lists different thicknesses than are found on the Pietenpol plans, I wond er if the list might actually be based on the Grega GN-1 plans, which has d ifferent metalwork than the Air Camper.- I would recommend that you spend some time going through your plans and do your own calculations of what yo u will need.- And, as Mike suggested, consider buying pre-sheared strips, unless you have access to a metal shear. In fact, I would recommend that you calculate your own list of materials fo r the wood as well.- For instance, the plywood kit lists more than 7 full sheets of plywood; there simply isn't that much plywood in a Piet. Finally, you may want to hold off on making all of the metal fittings ahead of time.- Some fittings will need to be made to suit the woodwork that y ou build.- Because these are plans-built wooden aircraft, no two will be exactly the same.- And slight differences in woodwork can and will result in certain metal parts being required to be made to fit.- The difference might only be something like a hole location shifting 1/16" or even 1/32", but that variance can mean the difference between a part that fits, and on e that doesn't.- Of course, most builders end up making a lot of fittings more than once.- Consider it to be a part of the learning process. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392534#392534 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Parts From: "aerocarjake" Yes, the famous Pietenpol kit arrives as a big crate in your driveway..... The crate is EMPTY so you make the airplane out of the crate itself....(ha!) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392557#392557 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:43 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel Parts Listen to the wisdom of Mike Cuy and Bill Church. Spend the time going through the plans and make up your own list. Also, don't forget to go to www.westcoastpiet.com where you will find a handy steel thickness gage-to-decimal conversion chart. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harvey Plummer" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel Parts > > > I purchase a set of Pietenpol plans. I thought I would spend some winter > days making steel parts. I noticed that Aircraft Spruce has a Steel Kit > for the Piet. It includes .063", .090" and .125" thick 4130 sheets. When > studying the plans I see parts made of .030", .060", .075" and .090" thick > material. Can all parts be made using the ACS kit? > > Thanks. > > Harv > > -------- > Harv, 485PB > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392523#392523 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.