---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/22/13: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:03 AM - BRAKES QUESTION? (Chris Rusch) 2. 11:25 AM - brakes (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 3. 12:17 PM - Re: BRAKES QUESTION? (Jack Phillips) 4. 12:36 PM - Re: BRAKES QUESTION? (Rob Bach) 5. 01:51 PM - Re: BRAKES QUESTION? (nightmare) 6. 02:28 PM - Re: BRAKES QUESTION? (tools) 7. 03:35 PM - Re: brakes (Jerry Dotson) 8. 06:01 PM - Re: BRAKES QUESTION? (Dick N) 9. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: Cross wind component (Jack Phillips) 10. 06:45 PM - Re: BRAKES QUESTION? (Ken Bickers) 11. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Cross wind component (shad bell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? From: "Chris Rusch" Hi everybody, looking for some input as to how often you guys use the brakes in a pietenpol for steering? i am at that stage of making a decision which way to go, and i am leaning toward having ONE brake lever on the stick just to lock the brakes for run up and to stop if im going to crash into something on the ground. Thoughts, pro and con please. -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392888#392888 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:22 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes Chris--I rarely use my brakes for anything other than run up or for slowing down when I'm taxiing around other aircraft or near fuel pumps. I don't use my brakes when landing or taking off as tailwheel steering is sufficient for directional control in those operations. If you do need your brakes on takeoff or landing then things have gone awry. To answer your question: I never use my brakes to steer. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:43 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? Chris, I only use my brakes for steering when operating on the ground - never in flight. Sorry - couldn't resist. I use my brakes differentially any time I need to make a sharp turn and need to break the tailwheel into full swivel. And once it is in full swivel, you definitely need differential brakes or a lot of throttle, rudder and room to get it locked into steerable mode again. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? Hi everybody, looking for some input as to how often you guys use the brakes in a pietenpol for steering? i am at that stage of making a decision which way to go, and i am leaning toward having ONE brake lever on the stick just to lock the brakes for run up and to stop if im going to crash into something on the ground. Thoughts, pro and con please. -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392888#392888 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? From: Rob Bach We have Cub brakes used only for run up. I have used them to stop a few times and because they're so soft, you can mash on them all you want and not feel any tendencies towards flipping. We never turn into a tight spot as it's just easier to pick up the 25 lb tail and place the plane where we want. Rob Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2013, at 1:03 PM, "Chris Rusch" wrote: > > Hi everybody, looking for some input as to how often you guys use the brakes in a pietenpol for steering? i am at that stage of making a decision which way to go, and i am leaning toward having ONE brake lever on the stick just to lock the brakes for run up and to stop if im going to crash into something on the ground. Thoughts, pro and con please. > > -------- > NX321LR > Fully Assembled > Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. > Wings covered and primed, one painted > Mitsubishi Powered > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392888#392888 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BRAKES QUESTION? From: "nightmare" Still building, but had a Cub , and gave tailwheel checkouts in a bunch of different tailwheels. probably could get away with single brake system most of time,( except for a BE-18) but boy, two brakes sure come in handy. tight turns ; a must for full castering, but even with steerable. around fuel farms, parking spots, if you plan on instructing anyone, two brakes will stop that crazy student from turning into that taxi light, resale, crosswind taxi/takeoff/land, and if you have ever gotten a flat and not noticed it till touchdown( like i have) you sure would be liking two brakes. and most importantly, one hand brake just isnt as cool. Just sayin -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392893#392893 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BRAKES QUESTION? From: "tools" I dunno, the handbrake on the stick is kinda cool! That's all I've got, one actuator for both wheels, I've never found myself wanting for more. It does have it's limitations, but in this genre, not really noticeable. Not a lot of plumbing, easy to maintain, affordable, easy to install. I've got no complaints. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392896#392896 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: brakes From: "Jerry Dotson" I use differential braking every time I turn around at the end of my runway. Without it I would go out in the high grass. My runway is about 35 feet wide. -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Started building July, 2009 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392907#392907 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:00 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? Chris Check out the Harley Davidson Duo glide actuater. It will mount on the stick and has plenty of braking power for operating both cylinders. I have one of those the only problem I have tun into is I cut off the handle a bit Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Rusch" Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? > > > Hi everybody, looking for some input as to how often you guys use the > brakes in a pietenpol for steering? i am at that stage of making a > decision which way to go, and i am leaning toward having ONE brake lever > on the stick just to lock the brakes for run up and to stop if im going to > crash into something on the ground. Thoughts, pro and con please. > > -------- > NX321LR > Fully Assembled > Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. > Wings covered and primed, one painted > Mitsubishi Powered > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392888#392888 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:11 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component I don't understand why you would say that, Oscar. I've had a few occasions where I've flown my Pietenpol in 25 knot crosswinds or better. The trip to Brodhead in 2010 comes to mind, when Randy Bush and I flew up together from west Tennessee - he in his Corvair powered ship, and me in N502R, which I was ferrying up to Brodhead for Ryan Mueller. We were making a stop at a duster field in Pontiac, Illinois, and the winds were just howling straight across the single runway. While it did induce a good case of sphincter-clinch, it was no problem for either Randy or me. I have never run out of rudder in a Pietenpol. It has the strongest rudder of any plane I've ever flown. Run out of aileron? Yes. Run out of rudder? I've never had it happen. In general, I find landing in strong crosswinds easier than taxiing in them. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component I've never had anything near a 25-30 MPH crosswind component while landing or taking off in Scout, but I've had half that and my experience has been that you will run out of rudder in anything much more than that. Some of the folks on this list with a lot of hours in Piets will have much more to say about it though. Then there's Raymond Hanover, who flies in the Texas Panhandle, where their clothing dries horizontally on the clothesline. Maybe he'll chime in. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392736#392736 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? From: Ken Bickers Chris, When I was at the point of installing brakes, I spent a fair amount of time sitting in the cockpit trying to figure out whether to use toe brakes or heel brakes and exactly where and how to mount them to be most comfortable to me. To be sure, the thought process may have been muddled by all the airplane noises I was making. I also thought about mounting something on the stick. In the end, I decided I liked the idea of a hand brake. I also liked the idea of differential braking. And I couldn't figure out an elegant way to mount two brake levers on the stick. So I built something that I think will work just fine and meets the keep-it-simple test. I welded up a bracket onto which two mountain brake levers could be mounted -- facing each other. I mounted the bracket under the right hand side of the rear instrument panel. Attached to the levers are bicycle cables that operate old-style band brakes. With one hand, I can activate the left, the right, or both levers together. I've attached a couple of photos. One is looking up from below at the bottom of the instrument panel. The other is taken from the rear seat. I haven't operated them yet under engine power. I have tried them out with my son and my dad pulling me around on the taxiway. Of course, two man power is a lot less than the power of a whole bunch of horses. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Dick N wrote: > > Chris > Check out the Harley Davidson Duo glide actuater. It will mount on the > stick and has plenty of braking power for operating both cylinders. I have > one of those the only problem I have tun into is I cut off the handle a bit > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Rusch" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:03 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: BRAKES QUESTION? > > >> >> >> Hi everybody, looking for some input as to how often you guys use the >> brakes in a pietenpol for steering? i am at that stage of making a decision >> which way to go, and i am leaning toward having ONE brake lever on the stick >> just to lock the brakes for run up and to stop if im going to crash into >> something on the ground. Thoughts, pro and con please. >> >> -------- >> NX321LR >> Fully Assembled >> Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. >> Wings covered and primed, one painted >> Mitsubishi Powered >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392888#392888 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:24 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component I agree Jack, as long as I land a little hot, and pin on a wheeler the rudd er is more than enough.- If the landing gear were farther forward that mi ght make the controlability go down a little.The real tough one is a GUSTY cross wind.- I would rather land in a steady 25 knotter than a gusty 15 k notter.- I think 25 on grass is ok, 25 on pavement will keep you busy. - Shad --- On Tue, 1/22/13, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component et> I don't understand why you would say that, Oscar.- I've had a few occasio ns where I've flown my Pietenpol in 25 knot crosswinds or better.- The trip to Brodhead in 2010 comes to mind, when Randy Bush and I flew up together from west Tennessee - he in his Corvair powered ship, and me in N502R, which I was ferrying up to Brodhead for Ryan Mueller.- We were making a stop at a duster field in Pontiac, Illinois, and the winds were just howling straight across the single runway.- While it did induce a good case of sphincter-clinch, it was no problem for either Randy or me. I have never run out of rudder in a Pietenpol.- It has the strongest rudd er of any plane I've ever flown.- Run out of aileron?- Yes.- Run out of rudder? I've never had it happen. In general, I find landing in strong crosswinds easier than taxiing in them .. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component I've never had anything near a 25-30 MPH crosswind component while landing or taking off in Scout, but I've had half that and my experience has been that you will run out of rudder in anything much more than that. Some of the folks on this list with a lot of hours in Piets will have much more to say about it though.- Then there's Raymond Hanover, who flies in the Texas Panhandle, where their clothing dries horizontally on the clothesline .. Maybe he'll chime in. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392736#392736 le, List Admin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.