Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:29 AM - Wing border (giacummo)
2. 04:06 AM - Re: Wing border (Jack Phillips)
3. 04:15 AM - Re: Wing border (Gene Rambo)
4. 04:24 AM - Re: Wing border (Greg Cardinal)
5. 04:34 AM - Re: Wing border (Mario Giacummo)
6. 04:52 AM - Big Piet tour (Douwe Blumberg)
7. 04:56 AM - Re: Wing border (Gene Rambo)
8. 05:50 AM - Re: Wing border (Bill Church)
9. 05:52 AM - Re: Wing border (Bill Church)
10. 06:24 AM - Re: TIG Welder (Jerry Dotson)
11. 08:43 AM - Oxy/Act torch (Pilot78)
12. 08:46 AM - Re: Oxy/Act torch (TriScout)
13. 09:04 AM - Re: Oxy/Act torch (John Franklin)
14. 09:23 AM - Re: Oxy/Act torch (TOM STINEMETZE)
15. 10:02 AM - Re: TIG Welder (scudrun)
16. 10:13 AM - Re: Oxy/Act torch (Scott Knowlton)
17. 10:44 AM - Covering-drain holes (Jack)
18. 10:59 AM - Re: Covering-drain holes (helspersew@aol.com)
19. 11:03 AM - Re: Wing border (helspersew@aol.com)
20. 11:04 AM - Re: Covering-drain holes (Gary Boothe)
21. 11:18 AM - Re: Wing border (Bill Church)
22. 11:26 AM - Re: Wing border (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
23. 12:30 PM - Re: Big Piet tour (Barry Davis)
24. 01:44 PM - Re: Covering-drain holes (kevinpurtee)
25. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: Wing border (helspersew@aol.com)
26. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: Covering-drain holes (Michael Perez)
27. 04:08 PM - Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Ryan M)
28. 04:32 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (tools)
29. 04:58 PM - Re: Wing border (Gene Rambo)
30. 05:13 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Gary Boothe)
31. 05:22 PM - Re: TIG Welder (tools)
32. 05:33 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Aircamperace@yahoo.com)
33. 05:43 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Perry)
34. 06:06 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (tools)
35. 06:15 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Matthew)
36. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: TIG Welder (Jack)
37. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: Wing border (Clif Dawson)
38. 07:37 PM - Re: Oxy/Act torch (biplan53)
39. 07:57 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Michael McGowan)
Message 1
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Hello,
I want to know if it is necesary to close the interior border of a three piece
wing, I am refering to the side near the center section.
Regards.
--------
Mario Giacummo
http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394245#394245
Message 2
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HI Mario,
I closed mine in, but am not sure if it was necessary or not.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
Hello,
I want to know if it is necesary to close the interior border of a three
piece wing, I am refering to the side near the center section.
Regards.
--------
Mario Giacummo
http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394245#394245
Message 3
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It is required.
Gene
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:05 AM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> HI Mario,
>
> I closed mine in, but am not sure if it was necessary or not.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:29 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I want to know if it is necesary to close the interior border of a three
> piece wing, I am refering to the side near the center section.
>
> Regards.
>
> --------
> Mario Giacummo
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394245#394245
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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The end of the wing panels on NX18235 are not closed. This is helpful for
insetion purposes.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
> <mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I want to know if it is necesary to close the interior border of a three
> piece wing, I am refering to the side near the center section.
>
> Regards.
>
> --------
> Mario Giacummo
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394245#394245
>
>
>
Message 5
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Gene, why is required? just to know.
Mario Giacummo
. -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- /
...- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .
2013/2/14 Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
>
> It is required.
>
> Gene
>
> On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:05 AM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
> pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > HI Mario,
> >
> > I closed mine in, but am not sure if it was necessary or not.
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > NX899JP
> > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:29 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
> >
> mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I want to know if it is necesary to close the interior border of a three
> > piece wing, I am refering to the side near the center section.
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > --------
> > Mario Giacummo
> > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394245#394245
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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Barry, that offer sounds pretty fun!
IF I make my flight (I fly standby) and get there in the afternoon as
planned, this would likely work, but will get with Gardiner and see what
his plans are since I'm staying with him.
Douwe
Message 7
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Look at 43:13 and any covering manual I have ever seen. They all show ways t
o cover ends and say it is required.
Gene
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:33 AM, Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo@gmail.com> wrote
:
> Gene, why is required? just to know.
>
>
> Mario Giacummo
> . -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- / ..
.- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .
>
>
> 2013/2/14 Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
>>
>> It is required.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:05 AM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wro
te:
>>
th.net>
>> >
>> > HI Mario,
>> >
>> > I closed mine in, but am not sure if it was necessary or not.
>> >
>> > Jack Phillips
>> > NX899JP
>> > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacumm
o
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:29 AM
>> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
>> >
com>
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I want to know if it is necesary to close the interior border of a thre
e
>> > piece wing, I am refering to the side near the center section.
>> >
>> > Regards.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Mario Giacummo
>> > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394245#394245
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 8
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Looking quickly (emphasis on "quickly") through Section 2 (fabric covering) of
AC 43.13-1B, I didn't see anything that said that wing butts must be covered,
but I did find a reference to the manner in which overlapped and doped seams
should be dealt with for wing butts. So, they do tell you what you should do
IF you cover the wing butts with an overlapped and doped seam. I have attached
a copy of the pertinent section.
I think the main concern would be ensuring that the fabric is securely attached
to the airframe, and that there is no chance that the fabric could come loose
over time, and likely the easiest way to do that would be to cover the wing butts.
Although, if built to the published plans for the 3-piece wing, the wing
butt will have a 2 inch wide plywood strip, which would provide a good amount
of surface area for fabric adhesion.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394256#394256
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/4313_fabric_120.jpg
Message 9
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Looking quickly (emphasis on "quickly") through Section 2 (fabric covering) of
AC 43.13-1B, I didn't see anything that said that wing butts must be covered,
but I did find a reference to the manner in which overlapped and doped seams
should be dealt with for wing butts. So, they do tell you what you should do
IF you cover the wing butts with an overlapped and doped seam. I have attached
a copy of the pertinent section.
I think the main concern would be ensuring that the fabric is securely attached
to the airframe, and that there is no chance that the fabric could come loose
over time, and likely the easiest way to do that would be to cover the wing butts.
Although, if built to the published plans for the 3-piece wing, the wing
butt will have a 2 inch wide plywood strip, which would provide a good amount
of surface area for fabric adhesion.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394258#394258
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/4313_fabric_120.jpg
Message 10
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Fred,
If you are planning on welding a lot of thin aluminum plan on one of the better
machines that have high frequency arc stabilization. I am not "current" on the
new breed of tig machines. Mine is a 1980 Miller Gold Star 300 which cost me
$3000 back then. It has an amperage start control and a ramp up control so you
don't blow a hole in the material getting the arc stabilized. All the modern
high end machines will have that and more.
That said an oxygen/acetylene torch will build a Piet just fine. The smallest Victor
would be my preference. I own a Smith Airline that 65+ years old. It was
my dad's. The torch was his last payday from Luscombe. They went broke and told
the employees to take the equipment they were issued because there would be
no money to pay them. He built engine mounts.
that is my 2 cents
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394260#394260
Message 11
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Group,
I have a nice Oxy/Act torch set up with Victor torches and attachments, but I find
my large torch handle is a little awkward to practice my welding with. Several
years ago at Air-Venture my brother and I attend a couple of the welding
classes and they had mini torches for Oxy/Act welding. I don't know if they
were Victor brand or Uniweld. Can anyone recommend a good mini torch? Name brand
and model number? Thanks.
Brian
SLC-UT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394266#394266
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oxy/Act torch |
https://www.tinmantech.com/html/all_meco_related.php
Meco N-Midget Torch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394267#394267
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Oxy/Act torch |
Brian,
I think Smith makes a pretty good one but I'm not sure if it's a mini-torch. Remember
you'll be welding some pretty good-sized clusters on the gear and engine
mount and you might not want too small a torch (IMHO).
John F.
Prairie Aire 4TA0
>
>
>Group,
>I have a nice Oxy/Act torch set up with Victor torches and attachments, but I
find my large torch handle is a little awkward to practice my welding with. Several
years ago at Air-Venture my brother and I attend a couple of the welding
classes and they had mini torches for Oxy/Act welding. I don't know if they
were Victor brand or Uniweld. Can anyone recommend a good mini torch? Name brand
and model number? Thanks.
>
>Brian
>SLC-UT
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Oxy/Act torch |
I will vouch for the Meco N-Midget as a great torch for working on Pietenpol parts.
I purchased this torch on the recommendation of an A & P friend and tech
counselor and have not been disappointed. This was my first experience with
gas welding since my high school days 45 years ago and I did not want to purchase
more than one torch.
The Meco has plenty of tip sizes available so you can do fairly heavy welds such
as the landing gear but it also has the small tips which are more useful for
tubing joints and flat plate welds. The torch itself is light and easy to handle,
especially if you get the lightweight hoses to go with it. Tinmantech also
has training DVDs and lots of other specialty stuff if you are interested.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "TriScout" <apfelcyber@yahoo.com> 2/14/2013 10:46 AM >>>
https://www.tinmantech.com/html/all_meco_related.php
Meco N-Midget Torch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394267#394267
Message 15
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I bought this one off e-bay. It was shipped promptly, arrived undamaged and works
beautifully. I've used it for stainless and in AC mode for aluminum. I think
I got an awesome deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WSE200P-TIG-AC-DC-200-TIG-MMA-Pulse-Welder-Foot-Pedal-welding-aluminium-220-240V-/200670909552?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item2eb8eb1470
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394272#394272
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Oxy/Act torch |
Henrob is another great torch. AC spruce sells them. Got mine on Ebay new for
half the price.
Scott Knowlton.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pilot78 <wings.wheels29@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oxy/Act torch
Group,
I have a nice Oxy/Act torch set up with Victor torches and attachments, but I find
my large torch handle is a little awkward to practice my welding with. Several
years ago at Air-Venture my brother and I attend a couple of the welding
classes and they had mini torches for Oxy/Act welding. I don't know if they were
Victor brand or Uniweld. Can anyone recommend a good mini torch? Name brand
and model number? Thanks.
Brian
SLC-UT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394266#394266
Message 17
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| Subject: | Covering-drain holes |
All, for the drain holes...do you do them before or after paint? I don't plan on
using plastic grommets, just a soldering iron.
Thanks
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Covering-drain holes |
Did mine after. Worked well. Measure twice, melt once.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 12:44 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering-drain holes
All, for the drain holes...do you do them before or after paint? I don't pl
an on
using plastic grommets, just a soldering iron.
Thanks
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
Message 19
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We got rules on this list.....if Rambo says its required, then its REQUIRED
!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 6:56 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
Look at 43:13 and any covering manual I have ever seen. They all show ways
to cover ends and say it is required.
Gene
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:33 AM, Mario Giacummo <mario.giacummo@gmail.com> wrot
e:
Gene, why is required? just to know.
Mario Giacummo
. -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- / ...
- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .
2013/2/14 Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
It is required.
Gene
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:05 AM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote
:
.net>
>
> HI Mario,
>
> I closed mine in, but am not sure if it was necessary or not.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:29 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
>
m>
>
> Hello,
>
> I want to know if it is necesary to close the interior border of a three
> piece wing, I am refering to the side near the center section.
>
> Regards.
>
> --------
> Mario Giacummo
> http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394245#394245
>
>
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Covering-drain holes |
Did mine after, too...no grommets.
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2013, at 10:58 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Did mine after. Worked well. Measure twice, melt once.
>
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
> To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 12:44 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering-drain holes
>
>
> All, for the drain holes...do you do them before or after paint? I don't p
lan on
> using plastic grommets, just a soldering iron.
> Thanks
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Jack Textor
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
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>
Message 21
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How about what he says about color schemes, Dan?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394280#394280
Message 22
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We got rules on this list.....if Rambo says its required, then its REQUIRED
!
Dan Helsper
I'm amused by some of the sweeping absolutes I see on the list like never,
always, without
any justification given as to why it might be so.
With a homebuilt airplane nothing is usually required except to pass your a
irworthiness inspection
here in the US but beyond that anything goes and we have seen examples of t
hose rickety, scary
looking homebuilts over the years but they did get an airworthiness certifi
cate and that is all that
is required to complete and fly a homebuilt in this country.
I like seeing advice giving 'usually, often, most times' on the list becau
se with homebuilts there are SO
many options and good ways of doing the same thing that might not be the sa
me as what other builders
have done.
I would talk to the old hands at the airport and they would warn me about u
sing this or that and not to use
the newfangled elastic stop nuts but mostly found they were full of it so I
knew I could always get sound advice
from my Uncle Tony's books instead of old wives tales.
My Uncle Tony Bingelis wrote the book (s)(quite literally) on giving outsta
nding homebuilding advice with
many options taking into account the difficulty or ease of a task, the exp
ense, and weight penalty options
given freely. What an open-minded education too reading Tony's books are
even if you never build or
finish a homebuilt.
Mike C.
All four Binglis books--- http://www.shopeaa.com/bingelissetof4.aspx
Actually probably cheapest on Amazon...
Oh, and if you want to pad the pockets of Jim Irwin at ASSco, Inc
you can pay more than you need to if you buy them here. Buy here and spend
$7.50 more (taking shipping costs
into account between EAA and ACS) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/bv/
books_bingelis.html
Message 23
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It's a easy drive out I-20 from Atlanta, about 50 minutes. You can eat
dinner any time, but visiting Pietenpols....that's another story.
Barry
770-301-8087 cell
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Big Piet tour
Barry, that offer sounds pretty fun!
IF I make my flight (I fly standby) and get there in the afternoon as
planned, this would likely work, but will get with Gardiner and see what
his plans are since I'm staying with him.
Douwe
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Covering-drain holes |
Poly-Fiber says to do them at silver, thus avoiding any of the under-coat colors
coming out on your final finish.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
Rebuilding NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394295#394295
Message 25
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Well.......time will tell if he has in fact copied my color scheme exactly.
If so, then yes, he would be right on the mark there as well! Not that I n
ecessarily approve of that behavior, but it would prove his good taste and
his ability to copy important features of those who came before.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 1:19 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing border
>
How about what he says about color schemes, Dan?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394280#394280
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Covering-drain holes |
Like others, mine were burned in after paint. No grommets.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) |
List,=0A=0AI've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definit
ive answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because there
are so may variables.-=0A=0AWilliam Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and
subsequent articles published in BPR was excellent however came just short
of giving a recipe for a heavy pilot Piet.=0A=0AI am 6 years into building
a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forward style gear and plan on mo
ving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Ryan's example). Exactly where
the CG ends up is anyone guess.-I weigh 225 and am not willing to fly ou
t of the CG range.-=0A=0A-Am I on the right track or am I building the
wrong airplane?=0A=0A=0ARyan Michals=0A
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) |
I'd say not. I'm 180 and fly A LOT with a 100 to 120 lb pax, short fuse, A65.
That's a total of 280 to 300 lbs worth of people and it's NEVER been a problem.
Gets a little dicey with two 180 lbers...
So, you're worry is going to be weight and balance, which I believe you will be
able sort out with wing placement, perhaps a little nose weight (like a battery,
header tank, metal prop which enhances performance anyway, etc).
You may essentially have a two place Sky Scout... Secondly, if you do the math
backwards, with a similar configured plane that you know the numbers to, you
should be able to determine where you need to sit, which may be a bit forward...
sooo... if you're not too far along, you may wind up modifying where the seat
is and basically have a non usable front cockpit, or just make it single place
with a nice baggage compartment up there. Save some additional weight by
eliminating front controls, etc.
This isn't trivial, but fundamentally the plane is proven to be able to carry the
weight, so I wouldn't give up just yet. Also, totally nix the idea of a heavy
finish, you need as light a tail as possible. I'd even consider a dope finish.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394315#394315
Message 29
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I take it Dan's post was tongue in cheek. I have certainly never taken suc
h a position. There are people on this post who are engineers=2C who are
master machinists=2C who have spent their whole lives building=2C restoring
and flying a myraid of aircraft=2C who are A&Ps and IAs - some for many=2C
many years. Sometimes people from this group step in from time to time to
offer their opinion=2C based on knowledge and experience=2C in areas they
are familiar with. There are also those who are none of these things=2C but
who nonetheless offer authoritative-sounding opinions on most anything reg
ardless of whether they have any first-hand knowledge. Newcomers to this l
ist have no way of knowing the difference. The standard retort from the pea
nut gallery to every single statement is that "this is an experimental airp
lane and I can do anything I want." True enough=2C but there are some gene
ral practices that can be changed=2C but for no reason. You don't HAVE to
use locknuts or cotter pins in aircraft bolts . . . the books all say it=2C
common sense dictates it=2C but it IS an experimental airplane. I doubt an
y inspector will approve it=2C but let me know how the experimental argumen
t works for you. Primary flight control cables in (modern) certified airpl
anes are always at least 1/8 by rule. Yes=2C the plans show less=2C yes=2C
you can do it=2C it IS an experimental airplane. Do whatever you want. T
here are a million other standard ppractices that are ignored on this list
every day by people who don't want to listen to experience. Since it seems
to bother so many people to have their certainty threatened by anyone who j
ust might know what they are talking about=2C I will wisely join the majori
ty of the people in the first paragraph and keep my mouth shut from now on
by removing myself from this list. God forbid I might know what I am talki
ng about=2C and I certainly don't have to prove myself to anyone. GeneFrom:
michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing border
We got rules on this list.....if Rambo says its required=2C then its REQUIR
ED! Dan Helsper I=92m amused by some of the sweeping absolutes I see on th
e list like never=2C always=2C withoutany justification given as to why it
might be so. With a homebuilt airplane nothing is usually required except
to pass your airworthiness inspectionhere in the US but beyond that anythi
ng goes and we have seen examples of those rickety=2C scarylooking homebuil
ts over the years but they did get an airworthiness certificate and that is
all thatis required to complete and fly a homebuilt in this country. I li
ke seeing advice giving =91usually=2C often=2C most times=92 on the list b
ecause with homebuilts there are SOmany options and good ways of doing the
same thing that might not be the same as what other buildershave done. I
would talk to the old hands at the airport and they would warn me about usi
ng this or that and not to usethe newfangled elastic stop nuts but mostly f
ound they were full of it so I knew I could always get sound advicefrom my
Uncle Tony=92s books instead of old wives tales. My Uncle Tony Bingelis w
rote the book (s)(quite literally) on giving outstanding homebuilding advic
e withmany options taking into account the difficulty or ease of a task=2C
the expense=2C and weight penalty optionsgiven freely. What an open-min
ded education too reading Tony=92s books are even if you never build orfini
sh a homebuilt. Mike C. All four Binglis books--- http://www.shopeaa
.com/bingelissetof4.aspx Actually probably cheapest on Amazon=85 Oh=2C and
if you want to pad the pockets of Jim Irwin at ASSco=2C Incyou can pay more
than you need to if you buy them here. Buy here and spend $7.50 more (tak
ing shipping costsinto account between EAA and ACS) http://www.aircraftsp
ruce.com/menus/bv/books_bingelis.html
Message 30
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| Subject: | Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) |
Ryan,
I have only successfully completed one Pietenpol, and no way consider myself
to be all-knowing.but, FWIW.
I don't think your weight will be an issue. Do not move your cockpit.it will
lead to too many issues. Consider allowing your wing to tilt back 4" (that's
what I did. I'm 195 when I'm lying). I have a wing tank, and fuel and
passenger seem to do very little to the balance, although it does affect the
weight, and therefore the performance. You did not mention your engine,
although I have witnessed Model A's doing amazing work at Brodhead. I have a
Corvair, developing 110 hp on T/O, with my current prop.
Please keep us posted on your progress!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan M
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight
Again)
List,
I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a
definitive answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because
there are so may variables.
William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles published
in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a recipe for a heavy
pilot Piet.
I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forward
style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Ryan's
example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone guess. I weigh 225 and am
not willing to fly out of the CG range.
Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane?
Ryan Michals
Message 31
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I've never researched one of those, but hear A LOT about them on many welding forums.
It's one of those things where you hate to admit it, but apparantly they
work really really well... especially in the not so heavy duty cycle/occassional
use arena (which is us).
ESPECIALLY with ALL the accessories there, including a helmet. One stop shopping
and everything is matched. Maybe with the exception of a little dedicated
grinder to keep your tungsten sharp.
By the way, when learning TIG, you're gonna contaminate your tungsten a lot. Just
stop, regrind and go again. Trying to weld with a messed up tip is completely
counterproductive. It's tough to make yourself stop, especially when you
get a good run going, but you can't. Ultimately gonna frustrate you more than
just stopping to reset.
By the way, for anyone learning welding, I HIGHLY recommend paying a visit to www.weldingtipsandtricks.com. That guy makes some REALLY easy to watch and understand videos of all sorts of welding. It's a great website. Nothing but really practical videos and advice.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394318#394318
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) |
Thanks. Haven't decided on engine yet but it's either Corvair or Continental
. Since I can't decide I'm focusing on fire wall aft.
I am getting ready to bend wing/gear fittings soon.
Ryan
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2013, at 8:13 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> I have only successfully completed one Pietenpol, and no way consider myse
lf to be all-knowingbut, FWIW
>
> I don=99t think your weight will be an issue. Do not move your cockp
itit will lead to too many issues. Consider allowing your wing to t
ilt back 4=9D (that=99s what I did. I=99m 195 when I
=99m lying). I have a wing tank, and fuel and passenger seem to do very litt
le to the balance, although it does affect the weight, and therefore the per
formance. You did not mention your engine, although I have witnessed Model A
=99s doing amazing work at Brodhead. I have a Corvair, developing 110 h
p on T/O, with my current prop.
>
> Please keep us posted on your progress!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan M
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:08 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight A
gain)
>
> List,
>
> I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a defin
itive answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because ther
e are so may variables.
>
> William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles published
in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a recipe for a heavy
pilot Piet.
>
> I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forwar
d style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Ryan
's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone guess. I weigh 225 and a
m not willing to fly out of the CG range.
>
> Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane?
>
> Ryan Michals
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight |
Again)
WW91J2xsIGJlIGZpbmUuIEkndmUgZmxvd24gTjEyOTM5IHdlaWdoaW5nIDIyNSB0byAyNDAuIEFs
d2F5cyBpbiBDRy4gQnV0IEkgZGlkIGJvbHQgMTBsYnMgdG8gdGhlIGZpcmV3YWxsLiBJZiB5b3Un
cmUgZXZlciBpbiBjZW50cmFsIElsbGlub2lzLCB5b3UncmUgd2VsY29tZSB0byB0cnkgaXQgb24u
ClBlcnJ5IFJvYWRzCk4xMjkzOQoKClJ5YW4gTSA8YWlyY2FtcGVyYWNlQHlhaG9vLmNvbT4gd3Jv
dGU6Cgo+TGlzdCwKPgo+SSd2ZSBiZWVuIGxvb2tpbmcgdGhydSB0aGUgYXJjaGl2ZXMgYW5kIEkg
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IHdlaWdodCBpcyBmb3IgYSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGVyZSBhcmUgc28gbWF5IHZhcmlh
Ymxlcy7CoAo+Cj5XaWxsaWFtIFd5bm5lIGFuZCBSeWFuIE11bGxlcidzIHJlc2VhcmNoIGFuZCBz
dWJzZXF1ZW50IGFydGljbGVzIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBpbiBCUFIgd2FzIGV4Y2VsbGVudCBob3dldmVy
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YW5kIGFtIG5vdCB3aWxsaW5nIHRvIGZseSBvdXQgb2YgdGhlIENHIHJhbmdlLsKgCj4KPsKgQW0g
SSBvbiB0aGUgcmlnaHQgdHJhY2sgb3IgYW0gSSBidWlsZGluZyB0aGUgd3JvbmcgYWlycGxhbmU/
Cj4KPgo+UnlhbiBNaWNoYWxzCg=
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) |
Something else to consider along weight and balance. The difference in cg between
me in the front alone (16.5 inches), scott in the back alone (50 lbs lighter
than me) 18 inches, me in the back alone (18.5 inches).
In other words, 180 lbs only moved the cg 2 inches. 50 lbs moved it about half
an inch. It was all linear as it should be and seemed to indicate that your
weight should not cause a problem insofar as being aft of 20 inches (the recommended
limit).
I did the balance with me in the front only, just for the data point. We did the
weight and balance by loading the plane as we would fly it (yep, just climbed
in while on the scales, used race car scales) and taking direct data.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394323#394323
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) |
Grandpa's Peit is long fuse, corvair powered, (b.h. Pietenpol style conversi
on) the wing is moved back 6" I believe. Grandpa 'Big Jim' is 6'6" 275lbs.
The wing is far enough aft that when it rains the water doesn't drop off th
e wing into the cockpit. He did say it flew a tad nose heavy, I may be adju
sting those figures when I put it back together this summer
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:07 PM, Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
> List,
>
> I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definitive
answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because there are
so may variables.
>
> William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles published
in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a recipe for a heavy
pilot Piet.
>
> I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forwar
d style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Ryan
's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone guess. I weigh 225 and a
m not willing to fly out of the CG range.
>
> Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane?
>
> Ryan Michals
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 36
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A very good site Tools! Also don't regrind have 10 ready to go...
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:22 PM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I've never researched one of those, but hear A LOT about them on many welding
forums. It's one of those things where you hate to admit it, but apparantly
they work really really well... especially in the not so heavy duty cycle/occassional
use arena (which is us).
>
> ESPECIALLY with ALL the accessories there, including a helmet. One stop shopping
and everything is matched. Maybe with the exception of a little dedicated
grinder to keep your tungsten sharp.
>
> By the way, when learning TIG, you're gonna contaminate your tungsten a lot.
Just stop, regrind and go again. Trying to weld with a messed up tip is completely
counterproductive. It's tough to make yourself stop, especially when you
get a good run going, but you can't. Ultimately gonna frustrate you more than
just stopping to reset.
>
> By the way, for anyone learning welding, I HIGHLY recommend paying a visit to www.weldingtipsandtricks.com. That guy makes some REALLY easy to watch and understand videos of all sorts of welding. It's a great website. Nothing but really practical videos and advice.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394318#394318
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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Copying is the sincerest form of flatery.
Clif
But then;
A fool flatters himself, a wise man flatters the fool. (Edward G.
Bulwer-Lytton) :-)
Well.......time will tell if he has in fact copied my color scheme
exactly. Not that I necessarily approve of that behavior, but it would
prove his good taste and his ability to copy important features of those
who came before.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Oxy/Act torch |
Brian, I have an old Meco torch and I love it. I am not too crazy about my tinn
man video about jigging and repairing tubing. There is some good info but I think
they stand around and talk too much. If you send me your address I will mail
it to you, maybe it will help you. My email address is biplan53@hotmail.com
--------
Building steel fuselage aircamper.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394331#394331
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) |
What about moving the engine foward instead of the wing back. If you put
the increase in the front most fuselage bay this wouldn't change the
wing or landing gear fittings and would give more room in the front
cockpit?
Mike McGowan
Long fuselage Model A fat pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot
Weight Again)
Grandpa's Peit is long fuse, corvair powered, (b.h. Pietenpol style
conversion) the wing is moved back 6" I believe. Grandpa 'Big Jim' is
6'6" 275lbs. The wing is far enough aft that when it rains the water
doesn't drop off the wing into the cockpit. He did say it flew a tad
nose heavy, I may be adjusting those figures when I put it back together
this summer
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:07 PM, Ryan M <aircamperace@yahoo.com> wrote:
List,
I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definitive
answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because there
are so may variables.
William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles
published in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a
recipe for a heavy pilot Piet.
I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub
forward style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in
William and Ryan's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone
guess. I weigh 225 and am not willing to fly out of the CG range.
Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane?
Ryan Michals
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