---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/15/13: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:45 AM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Clif Dawson) 2. 01:07 AM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Ryan M) 3. 05:47 AM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Michael Perez) 4. 06:52 AM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Gardiner) 5. 07:20 AM - Re: Some decals went on today! (Chris Rusch) 6. 07:25 AM - Fw: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Perry Rhoads) 7. 07:32 AM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (AircamperN11MS) 8. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Michael McGowan) 9. 09:32 AM - Re: Fw: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 10. 07:35 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Chris) 11. 07:53 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Michael McGowan) 12. 07:57 PM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (taildrags) 13. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:45:27 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) The farther forward the wieght the lighter it has to be. What's the absolute farthest? The front side of the prop. So what about a heavy cap type spinner? It shouldn't cause excessive stress on the crank, the prop does enough of that all by itself, especially a metal one. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Perry To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) You'll be fine. I've flown N12939 weighing 225 to 240. Always in CG. But I did bolt 10lbs to the firewall. If you're ever in central Illinois, you're welcome to try it on. Perry Roads N12939 Ryan M wrote: List, I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definitive answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because there are so may variables. William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles published in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a recipe for a heavy pilot Piet. I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forward style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Ryan's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone guess. I weigh 225 and am not willing to fly out of the CG range. Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane? 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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/14/13 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) From: Ryan M Good point Mike but my fuselage frame is done. Making a longer engine mount i s an option but as the article pointed out you get the most lbs per inch cha nge by moving the wing. The way I understand it, the fitting stay in the sam e spot, it just shifts back and changes the geometry of your struts. Ryan Sent from my iPhon On Feb 14, 2013, at 10:57 PM, "Michael McGowan" wrote : > What about moving the engine foward instead of the wing back. If you put t he increase in the front most fuselage bay this wouldn't change the wing or l anding gear fittings and would give more room in the front cockpit? > > Mike McGowan > Long fuselage Model A fat pilot > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Matthew > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weig ht Again) > > Grandpa's Peit is long fuse, corvair powered, (b.h. Pietenpol style conver sion) the wing is moved back 6" I believe. Grandpa 'Big Jim' is 6'6" 275lbs . The wing is far enough aft that when it rains the water doesn't drop off t he wing into the cockpit. He did say it flew a tad nose heavy, I may be adj usting those figures when I put it back together this summer > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:07 PM, Ryan M wrote: > >> List, >> >> I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definitive answe r as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because there are so ma y variables. >> >> William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles publishe d in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a recipe for a heav y pilot Piet. >> >> I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forwa rd style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Rya n's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone guess. I weigh 225 and a m not willing to fly out of the CG range. >> >> Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane? >> >> Ryan Michals >> >> >> >> ========= >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========= >> cs.com >> ========= >> matronics.com/contribution >> ========= >> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:23 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) -Crew, just some thoughts to keep in mind about hunting for a good CG, if anyone has not thought about them: Making things longer, wider, taller, etc. adds weight to the plane. As you rotate the wing back, you also lower it in relation to the cock pits .. Now that the wing is lower, people make the cabane struts longer. Moving the wing back is the same as moving everything under it forward. Doi ng so- will give you the greatest change in CG for the smallest amount of arm change and you add no additional weight...except for the longer cabane struts, if you choose so. (this may have been stated in the W&B articles i n the news letter mentioned earlier.) Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:03 AM PST US From: Gardiner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) On 2/14/2013 8:13 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Ryan, > > I have only successfully completed one Pietenpol, and no way consider > myself to be all-knowing...but, FWIW... > > I don't think your weight will be an issue. Do not move your > cockpit...it will lead to too many issues. Consider allowing your wing > to tilt back 4" (that's what I did. I'm 195 when I'm lying). I have a > wing tank, and fuel and passenger seem to do very little to the > balance, although it does affect the weight, and therefore the > performance. You did not mention your engine, although I have > witnessed Model A's doing amazing work at Brodhead. I have a Corvair, > developing 110 hp on T/O, with my current prop. > > Please keep us posted on your progress! > > Gary Boothe > > NX308MB > > *From:*owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ryan M > *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2013 4:08 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot > Weight Again) > > List, > > I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definitive > answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because > there are so may variables. > > William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles > published in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a > recipe for a heavy pilot Piet. > > I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub > forward style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in > William and Ryan's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone > guess. I weigh 225 and am not willing to fly out of the CG range. > > Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane? > > Ryan Michals > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > ** > ** > *http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * what prop are you using gary? gardiner* > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Some decals went on today! From: "Chris Rusch" kevinpurtee wrote: > Looks great, Chris. > > Was it you I e-mailed about drain holes for the wings? If it was, and you didn't get it, and you haven't put them in then, you should consider installing them. I found out that aircraft that are "always hangared" can still get water in the low spots. A lot of water. > > If it wasn't you, please disregard:). I dont recall us talking about that........but yes i am going to be putting in drain holes. I plan to do it when its all assembled with a soldering iron. -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394353#394353 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:00 AM PST US From: "Perry Rhoads" Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) I don't know if I should blame my Android tablet, or old age for the way this was typed ???? ----- Original Message ----- From: Perry Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) You'll be fine. I've flown N12939 weighing 225 to 240. Always in CG. But I did bolt 10lbs to the firewall. If you're ever in central Illinois, you're welcome to try it on. Perry Roads N12939 Ryan M wrote: List, I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definitive answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because there are so may variables. William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles published in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a recipe for a heavy pilot Piet. I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forward style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Ryan's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone guess. I weigh 225 and am not willing to fly out of the CG range. Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane? Ryan Michals =EF=BD~=EF=BD=03 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) From: "AircamperN11MS" Ryan, The French valley EAA chapter just finished a short Fuse Piet with a Corvair engine. The wings are not shifted rearward. I did the test flight. The empty weight of the plane is 765 lbs. For me to fly it, they put 16 lbs of lead right behind the prop. Before I flew it, I added 46 lbs more on the floor right behind the firewall. This was perfect and it flew great with no other trim needed. When I flew it I weighed in at 230 lbs. The owners of the plane only weigh in at about 180 lbs. The CG should be fine for them. That is why I elected to add the weight for the one flight I made. No reason to shift the wing for only me. To answer your question. It is very doable with your weight. I would certainly follow everyone's advice and shift your wing back so you can fly it without adding unnecessary weight to the plane. I am always at the most reward CG in my own plane. I am now trying to drop some of my own weight to help out that CG issue. I don't have the ability to shift my wing. Build it per plans so you can adjust the wings and all will be good. Hope you find this useful, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394355#394355 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:34 AM PST US From: "Michael McGowan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) Fuel and passengers are right at the cg so they won't make a difference in balance. With a long fuselage the pilot is farther from the cg so a small increase in pilot girth will make the plane tail heavy which Piets tend to be anyway. So if you don't have your fuselage built yet how much farther foward would a Model A have to be to balance a 225 lb pilot? If it's only inches that would not be a large increase in fuselage weight. Mike McGowan ----- Original Message ----- From: "AircamperN11MS" Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) > > > Ryan, > > The French valley EAA chapter just finished a short Fuse Piet with a > Corvair engine. The wings are not shifted rearward. I did the test > flight. The empty weight of the plane is 765 lbs. For me to fly it, they > put 16 lbs of lead right behind the prop. Before I flew it, I added 46 > lbs more on the floor right behind the firewall. This was perfect and it > flew great with no other trim needed. When I flew it I weighed in at 230 > lbs. The owners of the plane only weigh in at about 180 lbs. The CG > should be fine for them. That is why I elected to add the weight for the > one flight I made. No reason to shift the wing for only me. To answer > your question. It is very doable with your weight. I would certainly > follow everyone's advice and shift your wing back so you can fly it > without adding unnecessary weight to the plane. I am always at the most > reward CG in my own plane. I am now trying to drop some of my own weight > to help out that CG issue. I don't have the ability t! > o shift my wing. Build it per plans so you can adjust the wings and all > will be good. > > Hope you find this useful, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394355#394355 > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:35 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) Perry, It helps read this if you have sex daily! OOPs I meant dyslexia! Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Perry Rhoads Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) > I don't know if I should blame my Android tablet, or old age for > the way this was typed ???? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Perry > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:43 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? > (Pilot Weight Again) > > > You'll be fine. I've flown N12939 weighing 225 to 240. > Always in CG. But I did bolt 10lbs to the firewall. If you're > ever in central Illinois, you're welcome to try it on. > Perry Roads > N12939 > > > Ryan M < wrote: > > > List, > > > I've been looking thru the archives and I can not find a definitive answer as to what the max pilot weight is for a Pietenpol because there are so may variables. > > > William Wynne and Ryan Muller's research and subsequent articles published in BPR was excellent however came just short of giving a recipe for a heavy pilot Piet. > > > I am 6 years into building a "long" fuse with Cleveland wheels, cub forward style gear and plan on moving the wing back the 3" (as in William and Ryan's example). Exactly where the CG ends up is anyone guess. I weigh 225 and am not willing to fly out of the CG range. > > > Am I on the right track or am I building the wrong airplane? > > > > Ryan Michals > > > > > > ~ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:47 PM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) Ryan You should be fine at 225 as long as you don't build it too heavy. If you want a rapid climb rate, high speed all while hauling you and another 200+ pounder then you might be pushing it. It's still a Pietenpol after all. Plan on moving the wing back up to 6 inches. This moves not only the engine forward but also the weight of the landing gear and fuselage forward. Steve Eldredge (220lb)ended up with his wing back 6 inches and flew the heck out of his plane with only an A-65. I don't see why you can't do the same. If you want proof that it is possible read Steve's old webpage I was able to dig up: http://web.archive.org/web/20040812033606/http://aircamper.byu.edu/Piet.htm# Day_one You can see pictures of Steve's plane here. Let us not forget Mike Cuy wasn't so small either. Here are some comments from the archives. After flying in my short fuse aircamper, then trying on the long fuse with a 1" width modification, I felt like I was rattling around in the back seat. I am 5'10" 220lbs. Steve E. From: Michael D Cuy Subject: Sky Gypsy--long fuse Both Steve and I not being skinny had to position our wings, in my case 4" aft of vertical and in Steve's I'm not positive but I recall he said he went 6" to make the CG good. I ALSO made my motor mount one inch longer than plans.....and to do it over, I'd make it two or 3 inches longer possibly. I don't think any of this matters much on if you build the long or short fuselage or what engine you use because the CG can be worked out by moving the wing. This is not to say you shouldn't do your homework and see what worked for other guys with each engine/fuselage combination. Look in Doc Mosher's Piet directory, find someone with your intended engine choice, and call them. Write them, several of them. Find out what wing position worked for them. Did they use a tail wheel or skid ? Do they weigh 150 lbs. or 220 lbs. ? Do they have fuel in the nose or wing ? Ask, ask, ask. >Mike C. Subject: Useful Weight From: "Steve Eldredge" There isn't much published on the gross weight. I set mine at 1200lbs not knowing any better at the time. I've got an A-65 powered 626Lbs ship. 14 gallons fuel. I live at 4500' I have lifted off at 1170lbs gross. Expect 100' per minute or less on high density altitude days. Solo at about 1000lbs I get 3-400 fpm climb. (Quite satisfactory since I only try for 800' on most flights. I think an 0-200 would be a perfect fit under these conditions. It would really perform in any temperature solo, and still be respectable with two adults on board. 260lbs is going to be too much I think for the rear seat solo. I'm at 230 on a heavy day and I'm toward the rear of the CG envelope. I've got 20 lbs of lead on the nose to motivate me to loose weight. 7 years and its still there. Steve E. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:34 PM PST US From: "Michael McGowan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) How much does a Model A, prop hub and wooden prop weigh? Mike McGowan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 9:35 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) > > Ryan > > You should be fine at 225 as long as you don't build it too heavy. If you > want a rapid climb rate, high speed all while hauling you and another 200+ > pounder then you might be pushing it. It's still a Pietenpol after all. > > Plan on moving the wing back up to 6 inches. This moves not only the > engine > forward but also the weight of the landing gear and fuselage forward. > Steve > Eldredge (220lb)ended up with his wing back 6 inches and flew the heck out > of his plane with only an A-65. I don't see why you can't do the same. If > you want proof that it is possible read Steve's old webpage I was able to > dig up: > http://web.archive.org/web/20040812033606/http://aircamper.byu.edu/Piet.htm# > Day_one You can see pictures of Steve's plane here. Let us not forget > Mike > Cuy wasn't so small either. > > > Here are some comments from the archives. > > After flying in my short fuse aircamper, then trying on the long fuse with > a > 1" width modification, I felt like I was rattling around in the back seat. > I am 5'10" 220lbs. > Steve E. > > Date: Sep 18, 2001 > > From: Michael D Cuy > > Subject: Sky Gypsy--long fuse > > Both Steve and I not being skinny had to position our > wings, in my case 4" aft of vertical and in Steve's I'm not positive but I > recall > he said he went 6" to make the CG good. I ALSO made my motor mount one > inch longer than plans.....and to do it over, I'd make it two or 3 inches > longer > possibly. I don't think any of this matters much on if you build the > long > or short > fuselage or what engine you use because the CG can be worked out by moving > the wing. > This is not to say you shouldn't do your homework and see what worked for > other > guys with each engine/fuselage combination. Look in Doc Mosher's Piet > directory, > find someone with your intended engine choice, and call them. Write > them, several > of them. Find out what wing position worked for them. Did they use a > tail wheel or > skid ? Do they weigh 150 lbs. or 220 lbs. ? Do they have fuel in the > nose > or wing ? Ask, ask, ask. > >Mike C. > > Subject: Useful Weight > > Date: Sep 15, 2003 > > From: "Steve Eldredge" > > There isn't much published on the gross weight. I set mine at 1200lbs > not knowing any better at the time. > I've got an A-65 powered 626Lbs ship. 14 gallons fuel. I live at 4500' > I have lifted off at 1170lbs gross. Expect 100' per minute or less on > high density altitude days. Solo at about 1000lbs I get 3-400 fpm > climb. (Quite satisfactory since I only try for 800' on most flights. > I think an 0-200 would be a perfect fit under these conditions. It > would really perform in any temperature solo, and still be respectable > with two adults on board. > 260lbs is going to be too much I think for the rear seat solo. I'm at > 230 on a heavy day and I'm toward the rear of the CG envelope. I've got > 20 lbs of lead on the nose to motivate me to loose weight. 7 years and > its still there. > Steve E. > > > Chris > Sacramento, Ca > Westcoastpiet.com > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) From: "taildrags" Well, the one thing we can all agree on is that no two Piets will have the same weight & balance, so sweeping generalities about maximum pilot weight are just BS. However, here's another data point based on my airplane. Scout has an A75 on the nose (same weight as an A65), empty weight of 633 lbs., 4" swept-back cabanes, and a 16 gallon fuel tank in the nose. I believe it's the 'improved' fuselage length. Pretty stock. The spreadsheet shows that will full fuel and oil, the heaviest pilot that can saddle up in the rear cockpit is about 215-220 lbs. and although the airplane will still be under gross by 144 lbs., the CG will be at the aft limit. With that loading, I can put a 144 lb. passenger in the front cockpit and the CG stays about the same but I'm at gross. The airplane has flown many times in that configuration and is quite happy, but climb rate isn't spectacular. The other things to check (and Tools touched on this) are minimum pilot weight and front-seat solo. My airplane has a minimum pilot weight of 105 lbs (rear cockpit), because with full fuel and oil, the CG falls out the front end of the envelope with a too-light pilot, even though the airplane is only at 839 lbs. gross that way. My airplane can also not be safely soloed from the front cockpit for the same reason, so the front cockpit is placarded against front seat solo flight. Get the W&B spreadsheet and play with it. Mine is attached, if anyone cares to tailor it to their own airplane and use it as a template. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394383#394383 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/nx41ccw_b_2010_155.xls ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:02 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) Thanks, I am going to look this over and compare it to 3379. Any ideas about flying from the front seat with a pax in the back seat? There is no way my wife is going to be bent, folded and manipulated into the front seat. Blue Skies ----- Original Message ----- From: taildrags Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again) > > Well, the one thing we can all agree on is that no two Piets will have the same weight & balance, so sweeping generalities about maximum pilot > weight are just BS. However, here's another data point based on my > airplane. Scout has an A75 on the nose (same weight as an A65), > empty weight of 633 lbs., 4" swept-back cabanes, and a 16 gallon > fuel tank in the nose. I believe it's the 'improved' fuselage > length. Pretty stock. > > The spreadsheet shows that will full fuel and oil, the heaviest > pilot that can saddle up in the rear cockpit is about 215-220 lbs. > and although the airplane will still be under gross by 144 lbs., > the CG will be at the aft limit. > > With that loading, I can put a 144 lb. passenger in the front > cockpit and the CG stays about the same but I'm at gross. The > airplane has flown many times in that configuration and is quite > happy, but climb rate isn't spectacular. > > The other things to check (and Tools touched on this) are minimum > pilot weight and front-seat solo. My airplane has a minimum pilot > weight of 105 lbs (rear cockpit), because with full fuel and oil, > the CG falls out the front end of the envelope with a too-light > pilot, even though the airplane is only at 839 lbs. gross that way. > My airplane can also not be safely soloed from the front cockpit > for the same reason, so the front cockpit is placarded against > front seat solo flight. > > Get the W&B spreadsheet and play with it. Mine is attached, if > anyone cares to tailor it to their own airplane and use it as a > template. > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394383#394383 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/nx41ccw_b_2010_155.xls > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.