---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/16/13: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:04 AM - Front seat flying, pax in rear (tools) 2. 06:36 AM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again)Sky Gypsy--long fuse Useful Weight (Boatright, Jeffrey) 3. 06:53 AM - Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again)Sky (tools) 4. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again)Sky (Gary Boothe) 5. 09:44 AM - front seat flying (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 12:31 PM - Jim Markle-? (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 12:49 PM - Tore Down my engine! (tkreiner) 8. 02:13 PM - Re: Jim Markle-? (Gary Boothe) 9. 02:34 PM - Re: Tore Down my engine! (Gardiner) 10. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: TIG Welder (skipgadd@earthlink.net) 11. 03:20 PM - Re: Jim Markle-? (taildrags) 12. 03:29 PM - Re: Tore Down my engine! (tkreiner) 13. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: TIG Welder (Fred Kim) 14. 07:16 PM - Re: Front seat flying, pax in rear (Clif Dawson) 15. 08:34 PM - Brake cables (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front seat flying, pax in rear From: "tools" Hey Steven, Starting a new thread on this so as not to hijack. I bought a piet to teach my kid to fly. It's a VERY stock plane, but no throttle in the front, so we added one, which was very light and easy. The issues we found, and one the very hard way, is the stock rudder pedal geometry is not so great for ground handling. My son has lots of flying and landing from the front, I've only got a few take offs and landings from there, and it's generally ok, but uncomfortable, somewhat unnerving, it wasn't until the last flight we learned that because you're so on top of the pedals, you can pretty easily overcenter one and lay it flat on the floor... I'd recommend hanging them or designing some really good stops. Even better, do something like I saw on the EAA's Spirit of St Louis flying replica (which has been modified for a front seat flyer) and that was to put little "wells" that move the pedals a tad further out into the empty area under the engine forward of the firewall (they were made of stainless, so very structural and safe in my opinion) just a bit. Enough so that you're swinging at the pedals with a similar knee bend as from the back seat. I'd really have to get pictures, it was pretty cool and "should" work well in a Piet... A very minor deal that can cause big problems, one of the reasons ALL changes to plans REALLY have to be thought out well, considered, blah blah blah. Other than that, minor stuff, like the brakes (easily done in both cockpits, or just the front), mag switches, some instruments. The pedals like they are, are fine for letting someone fly around from up there, just not great when you need lots of throw and quickly. I'm going to keep working on making mine safely flyable from the front so that's there's a plane around that folks could get checked out in at Brodhead or similar events. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394403#394403 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:44 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again)Sky Gypsy--long fuse Useful Weight Hello Fellow Pieters! I've been lurking due to a hechuvalotta work over the last three years (htt p://www.emory.edu/EMORY_REPORT/stories/2011/06/people_emory_profile_jeffrey _boatright.html), but things are getting back to mornal, so I hope to becom e active on the list again. First thing up: I re-did my W&B during annual and I'm aft of the aft CG limit with low fuel and me in my winter togs. I am thinking about moving my wing back but I do n't understand how the wing strut fitting at the wing allows this motion. T he strut fitting at the fuselage clearly allows fore-and-aft movement. My f ittings are similar to those shown at westcoastpiet.com for Charlie Miller' s plane. Wing strut fitting at fuselage: http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Charlie%20Miller/images/IMG_3313.JPG Wing strut fitting at wing: http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Charlie%20Miller/images/IMG_3335.JPG The fittings at the wing of my Piet are similar to this (the strut end is d ifferent). I can see how this fitting allows a change in dihedral, but not a fore-and-aft change of the wing. Any thoughts much appreciated, Jeff ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again)Sky From: "tools" Those are just like mine. The single bolt going through allows that little piece sticking out the end to pivot a little. If there were two bolts there, it would be a problem like you mention. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394408#394408 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:09 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again)Sky Jeffery - Best wishes in your research at work. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I building the wrong airplane? (Pilot Weight Again)Sky Those are just like mine. The single bolt going through allows that little piece sticking out the end to pivot a little. If there were two bolts there, it would be a problem like you mention. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394408#394408 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:39 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat flying Steve=3B The airplane doesn't know or care who is piloting the airplane=2C or from w hich cockpit. My first couple of hours (and first couple of dozen landings ) in Scout were made with me in the front cockpit and my instructor in the back. Thus=2C I learned to fly the airplane without benefit of instruments of any kind=2C and I thought that was a good thing. I've flown it from th e front seat (with another pilot in back) on different occasions and I find the sensation exhilarating. The propeller is so close you can touch it (o r so it seems)=2C and there is a much different feel when you're essentiall y on the CG. It's fun. It makes the airplane seem smaller=2C sportier. However=2C there are three controls in the front cockpit of my airplane tha t I consider to be essential to safety of flight and operation=2C that are not replicated in the front cockpit. They are=2C in descending order of im portance to me: carb heat=2C fuel shutoff=2C and ignition switch. One coul d argue that the brakes are sometimes essential=2C and there are no brake p edals in the front cockpit=2C but "it depends". Turf or hard surface? Cal m winds or gusty? Short field or long? Brakes are nice to have=2C but pro bably not essential most of the time. Unless you are flying with someone who is intimately familiar with flying y our airplane and who knows and understands the importance of those three co ntrols=2C I would question the prudence of flying the airplane from the fro nt seat while the other person is in the rear. And unless they know and un derstand what the brake pedals do=2C keep that person away from them. Base d on my experience flying out of south Texas with a small Continental and S tromberg carb=2C the carb heat knob can be as important to you as the ripco rd is to a parachutist=2C because carb ice will kill your engine or chop th e available power drastically=2C and that carb heat knob can keep you in th e air. And of course in an emergency situation=2C proper use of the fuel s hutoff valve and ignition switch can be very important as well. My two cents. Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:27 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle-? Anybody seen or heard from Jim lately? Facebook just reminded me that his birthday is this Wednesday and I realized that he hasn't been around the li st in awhile. The chickens must be keeping him busy in the barnyard. do not archive Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tore Down my engine! From: "tkreiner" A few months back, a buddy of mine sold me a Continental PC-60 Packette engine, which is virtually identical to a C-90, at least inside. Along with the PC-60, I got a C-85-12F Crankcase and four O-200 Chrome plated Cylinders, with valves... all for $250. Then, on another visit, I found second GPU engine which I picked up for $50. The thought was that I would be able to put together one nice C-90-ish engine in a C-85 case. Since the GPU is a -12 configuration, the gears, and accessory case will allow me to have a full up electrical system. (I fly from a controlled field where they train air traffic controllers, and they don't like aircraft without radio & xponder.) So, during the last couple of weeks, I built an engine stand, mounted the engine, and tore it down. Pics are attached. After disassembly, the crankshaft mikes mid-range of NEW specs on both main and rod journals, and the only thing it needs is magnafluxing. The Cam, followers, & oil pump are all within tolerance and pristine in appearance. The pistons, however, are a different story, as they appear to be used, with a few broken rings, and ring grooves beyond the wear limits. Next, I'll vat the C-85 case and start getting bearings to build the lower end. If any of you have C-85 or 90 parts you want to offload, contact me offline and let me know what you have. I'd really like to find a 530788 cam, and a set of pistons... -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394422#394422 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo1_659.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00620_202.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00619_589.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00618_123.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:16 PM PST US From: Gary Boothe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle-? Jim who? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 16, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Anybody seen or heard from Jim lately? Facebook just reminded me that his birthday is this Wednesday and I realized that he hasn't been around the li st in awhile. The chickens must be keeping him busy in the barnyard. > > do not archive > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:16 PM PST US From: Gardiner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tore Down my engine! I have a starter and generator that came off my C90 from my cessna 140 for a lightweight starter and alternator. I figure they would be worth 75 bucks each. Gardiner > > A few months back, a buddy of mine sold me a Continental PC-60 Packette engine, which is virtually identical to a C-90, at least inside. Along with the PC-60, I got a C-85-12F Crankcase and four O-200 Chrome plated Cylinders, with valves... all for $250. Then, on another visit, I found second GPU engine which I picked up for $50. The thought was that I would be able to put together one nice C-90-ish engine in a C-85 case. Since the GPU is a -12 configuration, the gears, and accessory case will allow me to have a full up electrical system. (I fly from a controlled field where they train air traffic controllers, and they don't like aircraft without radio & xponder.) > > So, during the last couple of weeks, I built an engine stand, mounted the engine, and tore it down. Pics are attached. > > After disassembly, the crankshaft mikes mid-range of NEW specs on both main and rod journals, and the only thing it needs is magnafluxing. > > The Cam, followers, & oil pump are all within tolerance and pristine in appearance. The pistons, however, are a different story, as they appear to be used, with a few broken rings, and ring grooves beyond the wear limits. > > Next, I'll vat the C-85 case and start getting bearings to build the lower end. > > If any of you have C-85 or 90 parts you want to offload, contact me offline and let me know what you have. I'd really like to find a 530788 cam, and a set of pistons... > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394422#394422 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo1_659.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00620_202.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00619_589.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00618_123.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:11 PM PST US From: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TIG Welder Jerry, Very cool story about your father and his last "paycheck" from Luscombe. Skip > [Original Message] > From: Jerry Dotson > To: > Date: 2/14/2013 9:26:43 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: TIG Welder > > > Fred, > If you are planning on welding a lot of thin aluminum plan on one of the better machines that have high frequency arc stabilization. I am not "current" on the new breed of tig machines. Mine is a 1980 Miller Gold Star 300 which cost me $3000 back then. It has an amperage start control and a ramp up control so you don't blow a hole in the material getting the arc stabilized. All the modern high end machines will have that and more. > That said an oxygen/acetylene torch will build a Piet just fine. The smallest Victor would be my preference. I own a Smith Airline that 65+ years old. It was my dad's. The torch was his last payday from Luscombe. They went broke and told the employees to take the equipment they were issued because there would be no money to pay them. He built engine mounts. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jim Markle-? From: "taildrags" Golly, Gary- seeing as the subject line says "Jim Markle", I figured it was self-evident. However, knowing that people often have tongue in cheek around here, maybe you were hinting that since things sometimes disappear around Markle, maybe this time he has disappeared around us? do not archive -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394433#394433 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tore Down my engine! From: "tkreiner" Gardiner, WOW! That's great... I'll take both! Please call me at 832-326-2970, and we'll make arrangements to pay and ship. Thanks, Tom -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394435#394435 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:44 PM PST US From: Fred Kim Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TIG Welder Thanks for all of the feedback.I will let you know what I decide and how it works out. Thanks againFred > From: skipgadd@earthlink.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: TIG Welder > Date: Sat=2C 16 Feb 2013 17:42:53 -0500 > earthlink.net> > > Jerry=2C > Very cool story about your father and his last "paycheck" from Luscombe. > Skip > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Jerry Dotson > > To: > > Date: 2/14/2013 9:26:43 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: TIG Welder > > > > > > > Fred=2C > > If you are planning on welding a lot of thin aluminum plan on one of t he > better machines that have high frequency arc stabilization. I am not > "current" on the new breed of tig machines. Mine is a 1980 Miller Gold St ar > 300 which cost me $3000 back then. It has an amperage start control and a > ramp up control so you don't blow a hole in the material getting the arc > stabilized. All the modern high end machines will have that and more. > > That said an oxygen/acetylene torch will build a Piet just fine. The > smallest Victor would be my preference. I own a Smith Airline that 65+ > years old. It was my dad's. The torch was his last payday from Luscombe. > They went broke and told the employees to take the equipment they were > issued because there would be no money to pay them. He built engine mount s. > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:49 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front seat flying, pax in rear I have installed a bar up there exactly parallel to the pilot's one. Just seemed to make sense to me. One thing I did find was that the rudder didn't stop before running into the elevators. I've added stops to the main bar so that the rudder now will stop a half inch away from the elevators. Clif > > The issues we found, and one the very hard way, is the stock rudder pedal > geometry is not so great for ground handling. My son has lots of flying > and landing from the front, I've only got a few take offs and landings > from there, and it's generally ok, but uncomfortable, somewhat unnerving, > it wasn't until the last flight we learned that because you're so on top > of the pedals, you can pretty easily overcenter one and lay it flat on the > floor... ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:54 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brake cables Well, I have started working on the Piet! As y'all know this was a flying plane. It has a Piper cub landing gear. My first project is putting the heel brakes and cable back onto the plane. (they are obviously on the wheels.) How did y'all put spacers under the heel brake so that it pivots? How is the brake cable housing secured next to the heel brakes? I need to make a hole for the cable to run out near the gear attach point. The frame is recovered and the hole has not been made yet. What is the best way to make this hole? Burn through and ? How is the wire attached to the brake lever? there does not appear to be a hole in the bolt on the brake lever? Better yet, Who has some good photos on a web site of how they did it? Sorry for the basic questions, I know how I would do it, but I am sure that someone else has done it better. Blue Skies, Steve D. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.