Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (Jack)
2. 04:06 AM - Re: Motor Mount Questions (Jack)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (jarheadpilot82)
4. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (Michael Perez)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: BFR review (Gary Boothe)
6. 07:03 AM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (jarheadpilot82)
7. 07:06 AM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (dgaldrich)
8. 07:15 AM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (jarheadpilot82)
9. 07:23 AM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (echobravo4)
10. 07:50 AM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (jarheadpilot82)
11. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (Kip and Beth Gardner)
12. 09:14 AM - Re: Motor Mount Questions (Tim White)
13. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: TIG Welder (George Abernathy)
14. 06:47 PM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (John Fay)
15. 06:55 PM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (jarheadpilot82)
16. 06:57 PM - Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? (jarheadpilot82)
17. 08:47 PM - So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? (jarheadpilot82)
18. 09:15 PM - Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? (George Abernathy)
19. 09:38 PM - Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? (jarheadpilot82)
20. 09:47 PM - Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? (dgaldrich)
21. 11:09 PM - Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? (tools)
22. 11:54 PM - Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? (Clif Dawson)
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Subject: | Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Terry looks like a very fancy shop!
Do not archive
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jarheadpilot82
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 5:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water?
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
To All,
It has been a while since anyone has discussed basic stuff. And it has been
a while since I posted anything about what I had been doing through the
winter, so I thought I would do both. There is an old joke that asks "How do
you make Holy Water? Answer: You boil the Hell out of it." Well, making cap
strips is similar, except you steam the H*** out of it.
I am a basic kind of guy. I am not a fancy builder who can build great
looking steam cabinets, or other great looking and great working tools. And
I suspect that there are other, similar builders out there. So I guess I am
trying to let other builders out there know that you don't have to be a
master woodworker to build this airplane (although there are many out there
in this forum who do fit that description. Just not me).
So here is how I have been bending my cap strips. You can see my fancy
steamer. It is a cheapo, Walmart teapot, with the whistler removed. In its
place I stuck a length of PVC pipe with some JB Weld to (sort of) seal the
joint. I just heated it and boiled/steamed the cap strips for about an hour.
I then put them in the cap strip jig made from a 4X4 post. I paid a cabinet
shop $10.00 to cut the post to the arc that I marked. Why? Because they had
a much better band saw than I did and could cut the jig much more accurately
than I could. I like the way that the nose of the cap strip fits securely in
the slot, and then all I need are a couple clamps to hold things overnight.
It ain't rocket science, and I hope that I motivate someone to get started
on their wing ribs.
P.S. I loaded the pictures in the order I wanted, but they came out
backwards. So "the last shall be first, and the first shall be last." You
get thi idea.
Also, in case you are wondering what the holes in the cap strip jig are for,
they were my initial idea that I could use plastic ties to hold the cap
strips. Bad Idea. can't pull the ties tight enough. Clamps work better. Not
all ideas are good ones!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394837#394837
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Subject: | Motor Mount Questions |
Tim, the jig is pretty easy to construct with angle iron. Fitting the mount
joints was one of the most difficult parts of the project for me. I built
mine a couple inches long to gain a small amount of space behind the engine.
It won't help the CG as much as moving the wing back. If I did it again I
would pre-bend the side supports (Item 1 on the continental plan sheet) that
sit next to the firewall before welding to the 5/8x 1 inch tube. Will
announce on the list when I'm ready to pass the jig forward.
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim White
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motor Mount Questions
Just finished my landing gear/tailwheel and getting ready to build the
motor mount for a C-85. First, are there any motor mount jigs in the
central Florida area that I could borrow? Secondly, are there any tips
that you might share, such as building it longer for W&B considerations
or starter clearance (wife requirement)? I appreciate anything you can
pass along.
Tim White
Ocklawaha. Fl
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Mark,
I, too, am using the "fat" 613.5 Riblett airfoil. Maybe that is where the extra
difficulty was. Or maybe I am just a slow learner. Never thought of using the
vacuum method. Very interesting.
Jack,
The fancy shop is my wife's fancy kitchen. Steaming cap strips is about the only
use of her kitchen I think I will be able to get away with.
My goal in posting was to get a discussion going to, hopefully, motivate some people
on the sidelines to get working on their wing ribs. I did not enjoy doing
them initially. But having just finished rib #16, I am starting to get into
the 'zen of the wing rib'. I am actually enjoying the time while concentrating
on gluing. My mind focuses on that instead of all the other things going on around
me.
Pretty deep thinkin' for a Jarhead, I know. But I hope we hear from some new builders
on the forum getting started. Come on in, the water's fine!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394855#394855
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
I have the Riblett 612 and soaked my cap strip in cold water for about an h
our.- The PVC pipe could hold a bunch of strip, but my pre-bend jig could
only hold about four at a time.
-
My strips are all sitka spruce and I had no bending or breaking problems. I
only pre-bent the top strips, I did not pre-bend...nor soak, the bottom st
rips.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
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Oh, Mark...don't encourage him! Can you imagine what he would wear to walk
down that red carpet?!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 10:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BFR review
--> <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
You know Mike, you outta get the award for "best ambassador of Pietenpol's"
in short clip movies, but I am not sure the Academy grants such an award.
Perhaps we can suggest one?
Regardless, how nice it must be to have such a recognizable representation
of an iconic plane. And, to have helped so many follow suit!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394851#394851
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Michael,
And Jack thinks I have a nice looking shop!
Your jig looks nice. It only took me about three iterations of cap strip jigs as
well as wing rib jig to get something that I was happy with. You do very nice
work. I wish I had your skills, but I hope that this discussion gets someone
from the "this looks hard" phase to the "if Terry Hand can do it, anybody can"
phase.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394860#394860
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Terry
Just don't ask to use your wife's oven to powder coat metal parts...
I remodeled our kitchen so I could confiscate the old oven to use for just that
purpose.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394861#394861
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Dave,
Actually I am looking for a (cheap) crappy oven on Craigslist that maybe the burners
on top are dead, so I can buy it and use it for powder coating. I am trying
to avoid the "kitchen remodel to get an oven" deal.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394863#394863
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Pretty much how I did it- nothing fancy!
Didn't have as good results soaking
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394864#394864
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_172.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_374.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
I am reminded of the story of NASA trying to design a writing instrument for space
that would write in weightless conditions at any angle. Then we found out
that the Russians used pencils. That example may be an urban legend, but it makes
the point that things don't necessarily have to be complicated to work well.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394865#394865
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Pencil used to be the 'gold standard' for any outdoor note taking for
scientific purposes. Pencil will write on damp paper or wet
'waterproof' paper, and also is very hard to erase. Pen smears when
wet, and many solvents dissolve inks. My only gripe is that pencils
almost always need to be sharpened at the worst possible time.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 23, 2013, at 10:47 AM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
> >
>
> I am reminded of the story of NASA trying to design a writing
> instrument for space that would write in weightless conditions at
> any angle. Then we found out that the Russians used pencils. That
> example may be an urban legend, but it makes the point that things
> don't necessarily have to be complicated to work well.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394865#394865
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Motor Mount Questions |
Jack,
Thanks for the info & pictures. You answered a few of my questions.
Headed to the scrap yard Monday to pick up angle iron. BTW, nice
workmanship!
Thanks again,
Tim
On 2/23/2013 7:04 AM, Jack wrote:
> Tim, the jig is pretty easy to construct with angle iron. Fitting the mount
> joints was one of the most difficult parts of the project for me. I built
> mine a couple inches long to gain a small amount of space behind the engine.
> It won't help the CG as much as moving the wing back. If I did it again I
> would pre-bend the side supports (Item 1 on the continental plan sheet) that
> sit next to the firewall before welding to the 5/8x 1 inch tube. Will
> announce on the list when I'm ready to pass the jig forward.
>
>
> Jack Textor
> Des Moines, IA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim White
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 11:41 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motor Mount Questions
>
>
> Just finished my landing gear/tailwheel and getting ready to build the
> motor mount for a C-85. First, are there any motor mount jigs in the
> central Florida area that I could borrow? Secondly, are there any tips
> that you might share, such as building it longer for W&B considerations
> or starter clearance (wife requirement)? I appreciate anything you can
> pass along.
>
> Tim White
> Ocklawaha. Fl
>
>
Message 13
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|
Ahh mutter moan, I didn't get that one. YaNhoo has been saying that they ar
e fixing things.=0A=0AI will send the parts right away. =0A=0AGeorge=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: bubbleboy <scott.dawson3
@bigpond.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, February
22, 2013 11:11 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: TIG Welder=0A =0A--> Piete
npol-List message posted by: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>=0A=0AH
i George...yes I replied straight away.=0A=0AScott Dawson=0APO Box 5122=0AS
outh Tamworth 2340=0A=0A--------=0ATamworth, Australia=0ABuilding a Corvair
Powered Pietenpol Air Camper=0A=0Awww.scottyspietenpol.com=0A=0ATail and R
ibs built...Building control system and about to start fuselage...Corvair e
ngine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394795#394
=
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
I soaked them in the bathtub with hot water for 45 minutes, then put
them in the bending jig. Made the jig out of two pieces of 2X6 about
18" long. It would hold four at a time. Easy as can be.
John Fay
in Peoria
On 2/23/13, Jack <jack@textors.com> wrote:
>
> Terry looks like a very fancy shop!
> Do not archive
>
> Jack Textor
> Des Moines, IA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> jarheadpilot82
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 5:44 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water?
>
> <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
> To All,
>
> It has been a while since anyone has discussed basic stuff. And it has been
> a while since I posted anything about what I had been doing through the
> winter, so I thought I would do both. There is an old joke that asks "How
> do
> you make Holy Water? Answer: You boil the Hell out of it." Well, making cap
> strips is similar, except you steam the H*** out of it.
>
> I am a basic kind of guy. I am not a fancy builder who can build great
> looking steam cabinets, or other great looking and great working tools. And
> I suspect that there are other, similar builders out there. So I guess I am
> trying to let other builders out there know that you don't have to be a
> master woodworker to build this airplane (although there are many out there
> in this forum who do fit that description. Just not me).
>
> So here is how I have been bending my cap strips. You can see my fancy
> steamer. It is a cheapo, Walmart teapot, with the whistler removed. In its
> place I stuck a length of PVC pipe with some JB Weld to (sort of) seal the
> joint. I just heated it and boiled/steamed the cap strips for about an
> hour.
> I then put them in the cap strip jig made from a 4X4 post. I paid a cabinet
> shop $10.00 to cut the post to the arc that I marked. Why? Because they had
> a much better band saw than I did and could cut the jig much more
> accurately
> than I could. I like the way that the nose of the cap strip fits securely
> in
> the slot, and then all I need are a couple clamps to hold things overnight.
>
> It ain't rocket science, and I hope that I motivate someone to get started
> on their wing ribs.
>
> P.S. I loaded the pictures in the order I wanted, but they came out
> backwards. So "the last shall be first, and the first shall be last." You
> get thi idea.
> Also, in case you are wondering what the holes in the cap strip jig are
> for,
> they were my initial idea that I could use plastic ties to hold the cap
> strips. Bad Idea. can't pull the ties tight enough. Clamps work better. Not
> all ideas are good ones!
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394837#394837
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2632_152.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2610_659.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2629_177.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2630_152.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2628_682.jpg
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Thanks to everyone who has given positive suggestions as to how to prep their cap
strips for bending in the jig. What I really hope is that someone who has been
thinking of starting the wing ribs reads all of this and it motivates them
to get started.
Thanks!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394902#394902
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Subject: | Re: Why Is Steaming Cap Strips Like Making Holy Water? |
Thanks to everyone who has given positive suggestions as to how to prep their cap
strips for bending in the jig. What I really hope is that someone who has been
thinking of starting the wing ribs reads all of this and it motivates them
to get started.
Thanks!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394903#394903
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Subject: | So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? |
As I said in my previous posting, there are some fine wood workers in this group.
And I have seen some really fine wing rib jigs. Some with clamps, some with
Dowels used to lock the verticals in place. I have seen discussions about the
pluses and minuses of staples, nails, clamps, all of the above, and none of
the above.
So, after designing my wing rib jig for the THIRD time, I settled on the following.
I used MDF, and nails with the heads cut off (got that from one of Tony Bingelis'
articles and I liked the simplicity). I used the MDF, A sharpie to mark
the wing rib outline, some nails, some pieces of wood to go where the spars
will sit, and three tubes of clamps from Harbor Freight. Oh, and of course, T88.
I cut holes at the joints and cut a notch so I could use clamps instead of
staples or nails. Mine may go down as the ugliest jig ever presented on this
forum, but I have included pictures of the end result in order to show you that
the ribs match up quite well. And no staples or nails. The ribs hopefully once
covered will not be seen for another 10-15 years or more, so I am not concerned
that they are not works of art. I can tell you, however, that they are strong
as can be.
I am sure you are wondering how I am going to take care of the gussets extending
past the edge of the cap strips. I plan to either carefully use my trusty bandsaw
to remove the "proud " portion, or my router table with a flush bit. Any
suggestions are gladly accepted.
Again, I just want some people to see that the beauty of the jig is not what makes
strong ribs. It is the quality of the rest of the work. Even if you are not
a master woodworker, you can build this airplane, so GET STARTED!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394907#394907
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Message 18
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Subject: | Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? |
Take a look at a power file. Ryobi and Black and Decker make one. I use the
m all the time working on spas. =0A=0AThe belts come in all sorts of grits.
Variable speed.=0A=0AThey are also good at smoothing metal etc. =0A=0AThey
will make a nicely rounded radius quick smart. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________
____________________=0A From: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 3:41
PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent S
dpilot82@hotmail.com>=0A=0AAs I said in my previous posting, there are some
fine wood workers in this group. And I have seen some really fine wing rib
jigs. Some with clamps, some with Dowels used to lock the verticals in pla
ce. I have seen discussions about- the pluses and minuses of staples, nai
ls, clamps, all of the above, and none of the above. =0A=0ASo, after design
ing my wing rib jig for the THIRD time, I settled on the following. I used
MDF, and nails with the heads cut off (got that from one of Tony Bingelis'
articles and I liked the simplicity). I used the MDF, A sharpie to mark the
wing rib outline, some nails, some pieces of wood to go where the spars wi
ll sit, and three tubes of clamps from Harbor Freight. Oh, and of course, T
88. I cut holes at the joints and cut a notch so I could use clamps instead
of staples or nails. Mine may go down as the ugliest jig ever presented on
this forum, but I have included pictures of the end result in order to sho
w you that the ribs match up quite well. And no staples or nails. The ribs
hopefully once covered will not be seen for another 10-15 years or more, so
I am not concerned that they are not works of art. I can tell you, however
, that they are strong as can be.=0A=0AI am sure you are wondering how I am
going to take care of the gussets extending past the edge of the cap strip
s. I plan to either carefully use my trusty bandsaw to remove the "proud "
portion, or my router table with a flush bit. Any suggestions are gladly ac
cepted.=0A=0AAgain, I just want some people to see that the beauty of the j
ig is not what makes strong ribs. It is the quality of the rest of the work
. Even if you are not a master woodworker, you can build this airplane, so
GET STARTED!=0A=0A--------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
topic.php?p=394907#394907=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.
matronics.com//files/posting_1_261.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files
/posting_2_667.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/posting_3_247.jpg
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tronics.com//files/posting_4_212.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p
osting_5_181.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/posting_6_159.jpg=0Ah
=============
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Subject: | Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? |
Thanks, George, I will check on it.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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Subject: | Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? |
Hi Terry
Taxi on down to the Chinese Hardware Store (aka Harbor Freight) and get one of
their bench-mounted belt sanders like 97181 ($79 on sale NOW), then take that
silly guard off. You now have a VERY useful device for dressing all manor of
material, from the little bits of plywood on ribs to smoothing the edges of 4130
after cutting. Almost any similar belt sander will do. I have no great love
for HF. The one thing to consider is the ability to take off the "guard" so
you have a flat, unencumbered belt to put the larger stuff (like ribs) on.
These bench belt sanders really are a Swiss Army knife.
Dave
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Subject: | Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? |
Hey Terry!
Nice looking jig!
Search for laminate trimmer router bits. They're a flush cutting router bit with
an end mounted bearing. Will work easiest in a router table, will have to
run around one side and then flip over, but will go REALLY fast and effective.
For the discerning craftsman, some of then will even put in a slight bevel...
Designed to cut counter top laminates flush.
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Subject: | Re: So Now What Do You Do With Them There Bent Strips? |
That is one great jig. How many of the rest of us
were smart enough to make a jig that allows
installing the gussets on BOTH sides at the same
time?? Well, I didn't! :-)
I just passed my ribs across my disc sander to
get rid of the proud bits. Regardless of what
you use just remember that just because you
stop moving the machine doesn't! And don't
worry about glue squeeze out. Just spread it
out on the wood. You have to seal it anyway.
Clif
Everything should be made as simple as possible,
but not simpler. Einstein
>
. Mine may go down as the ugliest jig ever presented on this forum, but I
have included pictures of the end result in order to show you that the ribs
match up quite well. > I am sure you are wondering how I am going to take
care of the gussets extending past the edge of the cap strips. I plan to
either carefully use my trusty bandsaw to remove the "proud " portion, or my
router table with a flush bit. Any suggestions are gladly accepted.
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
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