---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/26/13: 46 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:58 AM - Re: George in Australia (George Abernathy) 2. 04:00 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Jack Phillips) 3. 06:11 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (TOM STINEMETZE) 4. 06:12 AM - Re: Re: I'm motivated... (Dan Yocum) 5. 06:20 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Barry Davis) 6. 06:30 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Rick Schreiber) 7. 06:44 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Rick Schreiber) 8. 07:09 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Jack) 9. 07:09 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Rick Schreiber) 10. 07:32 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Jack Phillips) 11. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: I'm motivated... (Gary Boothe) 12. 07:48 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Ken Bickers) 13. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: I'm motivated... (Jack Phillips) 14. 07:56 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Ken Bickers) 15. 08:01 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (TOM STINEMETZE) 16. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: I'm motivated... (Ken Bickers) 17. 08:16 AM - Re: I'm motivated... (tools) 18. 08:49 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Gary Boothe) 19. 08:58 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Michael Groah) 20. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 21. 09:35 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (airlion2@gmail.com) 22. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (TOM STINEMETZE) 23. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (TOM STINEMETZE) 24. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 25. 11:59 AM - Re: corvair eyebrows (John Francis) 26. 12:08 PM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Gary Boothe) 27. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (TOM STINEMETZE) 28. 12:20 PM - lefty righty props (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 29. 12:51 PM - Re: I'm motivated... (jarheadpilot82) 30. 01:31 PM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Jerry Dotson) 31. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (C N Campbell) 32. 03:24 PM - Re: lefty righty props (C N Campbell) 33. 04:41 PM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Jerry Dotson) 34. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (Gary Boothe) 35. 06:00 PM - powder coating (nightmare) 36. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: corvair eyebrows (Ken Bickers) 37. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: I'm motivated... (Dan Yocum) 38. 06:18 PM - Re: corvair eyebrows (Gary Boothe) 39. 07:38 PM - piet-corvair wiring diagram (Rick Schreiber) 40. 07:55 PM - motivation (Larry V) 41. 08:13 PM - Re: motivation (Dan Yocum) 42. 08:19 PM - Re: motivation (taildrags) 43. 08:25 PM - Re: I'm motivated... (taildrags) 44. 08:48 PM - Re: I'm motivated... (tools) 45. 09:08 PM - Re: piet-corvair wiring diagram (Ken Bickers) 46. 09:21 PM - Poplar Grove hook up (Rick) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:04 AM PST US From: George Abernathy Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: George in Australia Hi Mike,=0A=0AThat is a really pretty airplane!=0A=0AI am in canberra. Be s ure and get Simon some fried curds and a Genuine A&W root beer float. =0A =0AWith luck the weather will be "nice" like it was my first time. =0A=0AGe orge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" =0ATo: "piete npol-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Friday, Fe bruary 22, 2013 8:39 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: George in Australia=0A =0A=0AGeorge=94are you on the island of Tasmania?=C2- That is where good friend and Piet builder Simon McCormack and family =0Alive.=C2- Sim on has a gorgeous red and cream Ford Piet.=C2-=C2- He and his wife Susa n are making the trip to Brodhead and Oshkosh=0Afor the very first time thi s summer!=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- I=99ve been pen pals with Simon sin ce around 1994 and really looking forward to seeing=0Ahim and watch his fac e when he finally sees what Brodhead and Oshkosh are really like.=C2-=C2 - =0A=C2-=0AMike C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:18 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Those eyebrows really look good, Rick. Is everything but the fuselage covered and painted now? If so, you might make Brodhead this year. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schreiber Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 11:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows I have been working on my air scoops for my Corvair for the past few days. Trying to design it without much to go on made the task somewhat more difficult. Thanks to help from Gary Boothe, I finally got the job done today. Gary told me he had 35 to 40 hours in his. I doubt I did that well. I was worried about rolling the wire into the leading edge, but as Gary told me "That's the easiest part". Tomorrow I start the firewall forward cowling construction. I'm hoping that goes faster than the eyebrows. I have ordered a Cloudcars prop from Jay Anderson. By the time the prop is done, I should be ready for first engine start. Then its, cover the fuselage and paint. Attached are a couple of photos of the eyebrows. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:33 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Very nice looking eyebrows, Rick. Keep it up. Tom Stinemetze N328X McPherson, KS. >>> Rick Schreiber 2/25/2013 10:08 PM >>> I have been working on my air scoops for my Corvair for the past few days. Trying to design it without much to go on made the task somewhat more difficult. Thanks to help from Gary Boothe, I finally got the job done today. Gary told me he had 35 to 40 hours in his. I doubt I did that well. I was worried about rolling the wire into the leading edge, but as Gary told me "That's the easiest part". Rick Schreiber NX478RS Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:07 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... Jarhead, On 02/25/2013 06:26 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Here's another. Thanks Jarhead! http://youtu.be/d1nS2b70bxo I notice that you don't give any credit to the people who actually shot the videos and photos. Like Jim Markle, myself, and I think I see Jeff Boatrights handiwork in there, too. Bad form. no cookie for you. do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:52 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Your work really looks good! Let me tell you of some of the modifications we made to the Big Piets. We found right away that having the eyebrow attached with the top cover screws was going to be a big problem. Every time you need to get to a spark plug, all the bolts have to come out and that is an invitation for leaks around the top cover. We very quickly modified the brows to Fig. #1 where the bent alum stays on the engine and the top cover bolts are never messed with. We thought this would be the solution, but with all the stuff that ends up on top of the engine (depending on your configuration) like starter, alternator, oil filler etc., etc The sheet metal screws become almost impossible to remove and replace. I bought piano hinge material and the next time the eyebrows come off, we will install piano hinges with the removable center wire that will pull out toward the front. Fig #2. This will make checking your spark plugs a 3 minute affair instead of a 4 hour ordeal. My 2 cents Barry Davis NX973BP I attached a sketch but if you have a question just call me 1-888-834-8900 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schreiber Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 11:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows I have been working on my air scoops for my Corvair for the past few days. Trying to design it without much to go on made the task somewhat more difficult. Thanks to help from Gary Boothe, I finally got the job done today. Gary told me he had 35 to 40 hours in his. I doubt I did that well. I was worried about rolling the wire into the leading edge, but as Gary told me "That's the easiest part". Tomorrow I start the firewall forward cowling construction. I'm hoping that goes faster than the eyebrows. I have ordered a Cloudcars prop from Jay Anderson. By the time the prop is done, I should be ready for first engine start. Then its, cover the fuselage and paint. Attached are a couple of photos of the eyebrows. Rick Schreiber NX478RS Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:46 AM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Ken, I have a walk out basement also. I thought about bringing the wings back home to do the brush on primer coats, but the effort didn't seem worth it. When the time comes, I'll just turn the heat on in the hangar if I need it. How far have you gotten on the wiring? I have a schematic I put together for mine if you are anyone else is interested I'll post it. Its a combination of info gleaned from William Wynne, Bob Nuckolls (Aeroelectric) and others. The final version was checked by a friend who is a full time aircraft electronics professional so hopefully its OK. Regards, Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:03 AM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows On 2/26/2013 5:58 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > Those eyebrows really look good, Rick. > > Is everything but the fuselage covered and painted now? If so, you might > make Brodhead this year. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > Jack, Everything is covered except for the fuselage. I haven't primed or painted yet. The cowling is done up to the firewall, including the coming padding (I still need to do the leather wrap though). The windshields still need to be fabricated. My intention is doing ones like yours and Gary Boothes with the metal frame. I'm sure that will be another 40 hours of work. If all goes well I do plan on flying this year. As far as flying to Brodhead this summer, I will still need to get my tailwheel endorsement and fly off my time. Do you plan on going to Brodhead this year or will you still be working on the B&B. Regards, Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: Jack Rick I would appreciate the drawing, thanks. Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Feb 26, 2013, at 8:29 AM, Rick Schreiber wrote: > > Ken, > I have a walk out basement also. I thought about bringing the wings back home to do the brush on primer coats, but the effort didn't seem worth it. When the time comes, I'll just turn the heat on in the hangar if I need it. How far have you gotten on the wiring? I have a schematic I put together for mine if you are anyone else is interested I'll post it. Its a combination of info gleaned from William Wynne, Bob Nuckolls (Aeroelectric) and others. The final version was checked by a friend who is a full time aircraft electronics professional so hopefully its OK. > > Regards, > Rick Schreiber > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:47 AM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows On 2/26/2013 8:21 AM, Barry Davis wrote: > Your work really looks good! Let me tell you of some of the modifications we > made to the Big Piets. We found right away that having the eyebrow attached > with the top cover screws was going to be a big problem. Every time you need > to get to a spark plug, all the bolts have to come out and that is an > invitation for leaks around the top cover. We very quickly modified the > brows to Fig. #1 where the bent alum stays on the engine and the top cover > bolts are never messed with. We thought this would be the solution, but with > all the stuff that ends up on top of the engine (depending on your > configuration) like starter, alternator, oil filler etc., etc The sheet > metal screws become almost impossible to remove and replace. I bought piano > hinge material and the next time the eyebrows come off, we will install > piano hinges with the removable center wire that will pull out toward the > front. Fig #2. This will make checking your spark plugs a 3 minute affair > instead of a 4 hour ordeal. > My 2 cents > Barry Davis > NX973BP > I attached a sketch but if you have a question just call me 1-888-834-8900 > > Thanks Barry: I looked at the photos I had of the "Big Piet" eyebrows during the design stage of mine. Originally I had planned on attaching my eyebrows the same way, utilizing the bent aluminum stays that you did. I even got to the point of fabricating the stays. When I got to the point of doing the first eyebrow, I looked at how it was going to attach and realized as you did that there is too much stuff in the way to be able to easily remove it. Next it was on to plan two which was to cut holes in the eyebrows, in order to be able to remove the spark plugs without having to remove the eyebrow. Not the best solution, but one that many have used before. Once I got the first eyebrow installed, I realized that I could get to the front two plugs for removal, from the front of the eyebrow. It was only the rear plug that was difficult to get to. One day may AP/IA stopped by to check on my eyebrow progress and we discussed how to get to the rear plug. He said we could fabricate a tool if we needed, but he had something better. Craftsman makes a new socket type, where the socket is a standard height, but the drive for the socket goes around the outside, instead of a square drive in the center. The socket and the drive both have a large hole in the center. This allows a standard sized socket and drive handle to fit around a spark plug. He had a set of these and we tried it on the plugs with the completed eyebrow in place. It worked perfectly!!! Regards, Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:16 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Rick, I'll still be working on the Bed & Breakfast, but I will be at Brodhead this summer with my Pietenpol. There's a whole bunch of us planning to go together - from Virginia there will be Gene Rambo with his brand new Model A powered Pietenpol (if he gets it flying in time), Brett Phillips with his rebuilt Model A powered ship originally built by Kerri-Ann Price, Matt Paxton and myself with our Continental powered Piets, and we'll be picking up Douwe Blumberg and anyone else who has a Pietenpol in Virginia, southern West Virginia, eastern kentucky, southern Ohio or Indiana on the way. Hope to see yours there, and maybe you can join up with us at Poplar Grove before the last leg to Brodhead. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia Do you plan on going to Brodhead this year or will you still be working on the B&B? Regards, Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... From: Gary Boothe Speaking of Markle, I think he did a great job of throwing himself on his back and rolling in the grass, all the while doing a pretty good job of keeping FBG in frame as she made her low, high-speed pass! As the story goes, Jim spent the remainder of the day running back and forth to the gas station, lugging cans of fuel, eventually employing his wagon to do the heavy haulin'. Gary Boothe NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2013, at 6:11 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Jarhead, > > On 02/25/2013 06:26 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: >> Here's another. Thanks Jarhead! http://youtu.be/d1nS2b70bxo > > I notice that you don't give any credit to the people who actually shot > the videos and photos. Like Jim Markle, myself, and I think I see Jeff > Boatrights handiwork in there, too. > > Bad form. > > no cookie for you. > > do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: Ken Bickers Rick, I'd appreciate your wiring diagram, too. I've started installation of the Bowden cables for the throttle, mixture, carb heat, and fuel shutoff. I haven't done any of the wiring yet. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > Rick, > > I'll still be working on the Bed & Breakfast, but I will be at Brodhead this > summer with my Pietenpol. There's a whole bunch of us planning to go > together - from Virginia there will be Gene Rambo with his brand new Model A > powered Pietenpol (if he gets it flying in time), Brett Phillips with his > rebuilt Model A powered ship originally built by Kerri-Ann Price, Matt > Paxton and myself with our Continental powered Piets, and we'll be picking > up Douwe Blumberg and anyone else who has a Pietenpol in Virginia, southern > West Virginia, eastern kentucky, southern Ohio or Indiana on the way. > > Hope to see yours there, and maybe you can join up with us at Poplar Grove > before the last leg to Brodhead. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > Do you plan on going to Brodhead this year or will you still be working on > the B&B? > > > Regards, > Rick Schreiber > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:39 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... How Markle's dog get his leg broken? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... Speaking of Markle, I think he did a great job of throwing himself on his back and rolling in the grass, all the while doing a pretty good job of keeping FBG in frame as she made her low, high-speed pass! As the story goes, Jim spent the remainder of the day running back and forth to the gas station, lugging cans of fuel, eventually employing his wagon to do the heavy haulin'. Gary Boothe NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2013, at 6:11 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Jarhead, > > On 02/25/2013 06:26 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: >> Here's another. Thanks Jarhead! http://youtu.be/d1nS2b70bxo > > I notice that you don't give any credit to the people who actually shot > the videos and photos. Like Jim Markle, myself, and I think I see Jeff > Boatrights handiwork in there, too. > > Bad form. > > no cookie for you. > > do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: Ken Bickers On the spark plug issue, I'd suggest looking back through the archives for pictures of the way Rick Holland set his up. I don't think he's monitoring the list currently. Here's my recollection of his set up. He cut three holes in each eyebrow, directly above the spark plugs. The holes are plugged (no pun intended) with some fittings sold at big box hardware stores for filling holes in sink installations. Each of those fittings takes about a second to pop out, leaving plenty of room to put a drive down over the spark plugs to back them out or put them back in. Simple and neat. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > Rick, I'd appreciate your wiring diagram, too. I've started > installation of the Bowden cables for the throttle, mixture, carb > heat, and fuel shutoff. I haven't done any of the wiring yet. Cheers, > Ken > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: >> >> Rick, >> >> I'll still be working on the Bed & Breakfast, but I will be at Brodhead this >> summer with my Pietenpol. There's a whole bunch of us planning to go >> together - from Virginia there will be Gene Rambo with his brand new Model A >> powered Pietenpol (if he gets it flying in time), Brett Phillips with his >> rebuilt Model A powered ship originally built by Kerri-Ann Price, Matt >> Paxton and myself with our Continental powered Piets, and we'll be picking >> up Douwe Blumberg and anyone else who has a Pietenpol in Virginia, southern >> West Virginia, eastern kentucky, southern Ohio or Indiana on the way. >> >> Hope to see yours there, and maybe you can join up with us at Poplar Grove >> before the last leg to Brodhead. >> >> Jack Phillips >> NX899JP >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia >> >> >> Do you plan on going to Brodhead this year or will you still be working on >> the B&B? >> >> >> Regards, >> Rick Schreiber >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:02 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Barry and Rick: I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the lower pressure side. Has anybody on the list tried this? Tom Stinemetze N328X McPherson, KS. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... From: Ken Bickers anybody seen those fuel containers since that day Markle had them in his wagon? Or for that matter, the wagon? On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > How Markle's dog get his leg broken? > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:41 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... > > > Speaking of Markle, I think he did a great job of throwing himself on his > back and rolling in the grass, all the while doing a pretty good job of > keeping FBG in frame as she made her low, high-speed pass! > > As the story goes, Jim spent the remainder of the day running back and forth > to the gas station, lugging cans of fuel, eventually employing his wagon to > do the heavy haulin'. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 26, 2013, at 6:11 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > >> >> Jarhead, >> >> On 02/25/2013 06:26 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: >>> Here's another. Thanks Jarhead! http://youtu.be/d1nS2b70bxo >> >> I notice that you don't give any credit to the people who actually shot >> the videos and photos. Like Jim Markle, myself, and I think I see Jeff >> Boatrights handiwork in there, too. >> >> Bad form. >> >> no cookie for you. >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... From: "tools" yocum137(at)gmail.com wrote: > Jarhead, > > On 02/25/2013 06:26 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > > > Here's another. Thanks Jarhead! http://youtu.be/d1nS2b70bxo > > > > > > I notice that you don't give any credit to the people who actually shot > the videos and photos. Like Jim Markle, myself, and I think I see Jeff > Boatrights handiwork in there, too. > > Bad form. > > no cookie for you. > > do not archive Uh... you didn't complain the first time... http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=84637&highlight Tools, having fun remembering first grade. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395098#395098 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: Gary Boothe No, but I can easily say that I have zero cooling issues! Gary Boothe NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "TOM STINEMETZE" wrote: > > Barry and Rick: > > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the lower pressure side. > > Has anybody on the list tried this? > > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > McPherson, KS. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:29 AM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Tom... I added the scat tube to link the scoops.-- I did it after I was flying it but I also added the CHT gauge at the same time so I don't have any data on the before and after.- What WW says about it makes sense and it was an easy thing to do so I went ahead and did it. =0A=0AOn the subject of spark plug access I put the holes in the side with screw on covers (int o nut-plates) that cover the holes.- It's simple to unscrew the covers an d pull the plugs.-- I think they look good and do the job.- I don't h ave any pics here on my work computer but you can go the pics WW posted and see the scoops in two pics of my engine install. It isn't the greatest vie w but you can see the covers in the side shot.----- http://flycor vair.net/?s=groah =0AThe pics on that site are prior to my adding the sca t tube but it passes right behind the starter to link the scoops.=0A=0A=0AM ike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A Fro m: TOM STINEMETZE =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:59 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cor =0A=0ABarry and Rick:=0A=0AI recall reading a post by Wil liam Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow area s interconnected for more balanced cooling.- I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attit ude caused by the reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased pitch of the downward moving blade.- As a consequence, the hott est side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is the r ight cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs first.- He s uggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides via a scat tube to al low the higher pressure side to help cool the lower pressure side.=0A=0AHas anybody on the list tried this?=0A=0ATom Stinemetze=0AN328X=0AMcPherson, K =========================0A ====================== ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:26 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Which way does a crank snapper rotate? Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps on the right side. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > Barry and Rick: > > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the > lower pressure side. > > Has anybody on the list tried this? > > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > McPherson, KS. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: airlion2@gmail.com I plan on going to c37 also with my Piet and meeting at popular grove sounds like a good idea. Cheers, gardiner mason. Sent from my iPad On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:25 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > Rick, > > I'll still be working on the Bed & Breakfast, but I will be at Brodhead this > summer with my Pietenpol. There's a whole bunch of us planning to go > together - from Virginia there will be Gene Rambo with his brand new Model A > powered Pietenpol (if he gets it flying in time), Brett Phillips with his > rebuilt Model A powered ship originally built by Kerri-Ann Price, Matt > Paxton and myself with our Continental powered Piets, and we'll be picking > up Douwe Blumberg and anyone else who has a Pietenpol in Virginia, southern > West Virginia, eastern kentucky, southern Ohio or Indiana on the way. > > Hope to see yours there, and maybe you can join up with us at Poplar Grove > before the last leg to Brodhead. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > Do you plan on going to Brodhead this year or will you still be working on > the B&B? > > > Regards, > Rick Schreiber > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:03 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Steve: Normally a Corvair turns "backwards" to a normal aircraft engine. i.e. counter clockwise viewed from the front. However it is possible during the rebuild to make it turn clockwise - just takes more time and money. Stinemetze >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> Which way does a crank snapper rotate? Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps on the right side. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > Barry and Rick: > > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the > lower pressure side. > > Has anybody on the list tried this? > > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > McPherson, KS. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:25 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the front. Stinemetze >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> Which way does a crank snapper rotate? Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps on the right side. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > Barry and Rick: > > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the > lower pressure side. > > Has anybody on the list tried this? > > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > McPherson, KS. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:29 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the front. > > Stinemetze > > > >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> > > Which way does a crank snapper rotate? > > Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps on the right side. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM STINEMETZE < > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:17 > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Barry and Rick: > > > > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced > > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included > > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the > > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased > > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest > > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is > > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs > > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides > > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the > > lower pressure side. > > > > Has anybody on the list tried this? > > > > Tom Stinemetze > > N328X > > McPherson, KS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair eyebrows From: "John Francis" Yes steven.d.dortch(at)us.arm wrote: > Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > --- -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395116#395116 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: Gary Boothe Yes, P- factor kicks in after about an hour, then I have to either get on the ground in a hurry, or just hang it over the side. Gary Boothe NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2013, at 11:14 AM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" wrote: > > Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM STINEMETZE > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:53 > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >> >> Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the front. >> >> Stinemetze >> >> >>>>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> >> >> Which way does a crank snapper rotate? >> >> Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps on the right side. >> >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: TOM STINEMETZE < >> Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:17 >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >>> Barry and Rick: >>> >>> I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced >>> cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included >>> the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the >>> reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased >>> pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest >>> side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is >>> the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs >>> first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides >>> via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the >>> lower pressure side. >>> >>> Has anybody on the list tried this? >>> >>> Tom Stinemetze >>> N328X >>> McPherson, KS. > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:16 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Steve: The short answer is "yes" as gyroscopic forces always act 90 degrees from the plane of the directional change. i.e. tail comes up which forces the top of the blade forward which puts the gyroscopic force 90 degrees to the right in a Corvair engine or 90 degrees to the left on a real airplane engine. You compensate for that with rudder offset or a trim tab. I have been told that your brain and your feet react to the direction of movement without even having to think about it but that's just hearsay for me since I do not have any actual flight experience with a conventional gear airplane - yet. A standard turning aircraft engine tends to yaw the aircraft to the left when the tail comes up. This is just the opposite if the engine is turning in the opposite direction. That is the entire extent of my expansive knowledge on the subject. I am open to all corrections from the group without malice. Tom Stinemetze N328X McPherson, Ks. >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" 2/26/2013 1:14 PM >>> Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the front. > > Stinemetze > > > >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> > > Which way does a crank snapper rotate? > > Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps on the right side. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM STINEMETZE < > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:17 > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Barry and Rick: > > > > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more balanced > > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included > > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the > > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased > > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest > > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is > > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs > > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides > > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the > > lower pressure side. > > > > Has anybody on the list tried this? > > > > Tom Stinemetze > > N328X > > McPherson, KS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:49 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: lefty righty props I used to hop from my Continental powered Piet to the VW powered Corby Star let and it does confuse your feet a bit because the Piet needs right rudder on climb out at the auto engine needed left rud der on climb out. It was pretty easy to get used to though even after flying behind aircraft engines for a few decades. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... From: "jarheadpilot82" Dan (Yocum, not Helsper), 1. I didn't post this yesterday. Dan Helsper did. He seemed to like it and thought others might as well. 2. I never claimed to have filmed it. I do make claim to spending several hours cutting, splicing, then putting the music (which i had to purchase) to the videos, which I hope people enjoyed. 3. Obviously, since you have pointed out the video sources, I have no need to, other than to say thank you to those pilots flying and videographers who captured the flying. If my use of their video is offensive I will be happy to remove this from YouTube. Just let me know, and that includes you, Dan. 4. If there is anything else that I am doing or posting on this forum for which. you are unhappy, please feel free anytime to call me and discuss off-line. I am happy to talk with you and let others simply enjoy the positive builder's support that this Forum affords. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395126#395126 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair eyebrows From: "Jerry Dotson" Quote: Yes, P- factor kicks in after about an hour, then I have to either get on the ground in a hurry, or just hang it over the side. Gary Boothe NX308MB Never take Lasix before a morning flight. You can't pass a fire hydrant much less fly an hour!! [Wink] -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395128#395128 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:28 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows OK, Tom. I will be using a Corvair engine which turns the 'wrong' way. I plan to offset the vertical fin to counteract the torque. As I understand it, the 'real' engine builders are off setting the fin -- front of fin -- to the right. I guess I will have to offset mine to the left. Correct? Seems that it should be the other way around. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:06 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > Steve: > > The short answer is "yes" as gyroscopic forces always act 90 degrees from > the plane of the directional change. i.e. tail comes up which forces the > top of the blade forward which puts the gyroscopic force 90 degrees to the > right in a Corvair engine or 90 degrees to the left on a real airplane > engine. You compensate for that with rudder offset or a trim tab. I have > been told that your brain and your feet react to the direction of movement > without even having to think about it but that's just hearsay for me since > I do not have any actual flight experience with a conventional gear > airplane - yet. > > A standard turning aircraft engine tends to yaw the aircraft to the left > when the tail comes up. This is just the opposite if the engine is > turning in the opposite direction. > > That is the entire extent of my expansive knowledge on the subject. I am > open to all corrections from the group without malice. > > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > McPherson, Ks. > >>>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" >>>> 2/26/2013 1:14 PM >>> > > > Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM STINEMETZE > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:53 > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >> >> Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the >> front. >> >> Stinemetze >> >> >> >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> >> < >> >> Which way does a crank snapper rotate? >> >> Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) >> climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due >> to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps >> on the right side. >> >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: TOM STINEMETZE < >> Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:17 >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >> > Barry and Rick: >> > >> > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the >> > advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more >> > balanced >> > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included >> > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the >> > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased >> > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest >> > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is >> > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs >> > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides >> > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the >> > lower pressure side. >> > >> > Has anybody on the list tried this? >> > >> > Tom Stinemetze >> > N328X >> > McPherson, KS. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:01 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lefty righty props When I first started flying Helicopters I some times pushed the wrong pedal when adding power. In an airplane with a left turning prop, you have to add right rudder when adding power. In a helio the rotor turns clockwise and you have to add left pedal when adding power -- like when you're adding power to come to a hover from the ground. After a while it became natural for me. C ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: lefty righty props I used to hop from my Continental powered Piet to the VW powered Corby Starlet and it does confuse your feet a bit because the Piet needs right rudder on climb out at the auto engine needed left rudder on climb out. It was pretty easy to get used to though even after flying behind aircraft engines for a few decades. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair eyebrows From: "Jerry Dotson" I offset mine to the left side of the plane 1/2" or maybe a little more. -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395138#395138 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:26 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows Chuck, Off-set for the Corvair is to the right. Mine is off-set eight washers, and I still need to hold slight left rudder on straight and level. I'm maxed out on adjustment and will need to re-design the RH bracket to get more adjustment. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:12 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows --> OK, Tom. I will be using a Corvair engine which turns the 'wrong' way. I plan to offset the vertical fin to counteract the torque. As I understand it, the 'real' engine builders are off setting the fin -- front of fin -- to the right. I guess I will have to offset mine to the left. Correct? Seems that it should be the other way around. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:06 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > Steve: > > The short answer is "yes" as gyroscopic forces always act 90 degrees from > the plane of the directional change. i.e. tail comes up which forces the > top of the blade forward which puts the gyroscopic force 90 degrees to the > right in a Corvair engine or 90 degrees to the left on a real airplane > engine. You compensate for that with rudder offset or a trim tab. I have > been told that your brain and your feet react to the direction of movement > without even having to think about it but that's just hearsay for me since > I do not have any actual flight experience with a conventional gear > airplane - yet. > > A standard turning aircraft engine tends to yaw the aircraft to the left > when the tail comes up. This is just the opposite if the engine is > turning in the opposite direction. > > That is the entire extent of my expansive knowledge on the subject. I am > open to all corrections from the group without malice. > > Tom Stinemetze > N328X > McPherson, Ks. > >>>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" >>>> 2/26/2013 1:14 PM >>> > > > Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: TOM STINEMETZE > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:53 > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >> >> Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the >> front. >> >> Stinemetze >> >> >> >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> >> < >> >> Which way does a crank snapper rotate? >> >> Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) >> climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due >> to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps >> on the right side. >> >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: TOM STINEMETZE < >> Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:17 >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >> > Barry and Rick: >> > >> > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the >> > advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more >> > balanced >> > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included >> > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the >> > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased >> > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest >> > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is >> > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs >> > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides >> > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the >> > lower pressure side. >> > >> > Has anybody on the list tried this? >> > >> > Tom Stinemetze >> > N328X >> > McPherson, KS. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: powder coating From: "nightmare" Seems like powder coating steel piet parts is becoming popular. About 15 years ago a a&p IA coworker had mentioned that powder coating engine mounts, and other structural parts was not approved ( Certificated aircraft) because of how it hides cracks and some times rust. Is it now considered an acceptable practice? Im also thinking about it for my build. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395142#395142 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: Ken Bickers Gary, as a data point, how much offset do your eight washers provide? I set mine to 3/4" right offset. I'm wondering if that is too much or too little, based on the assumption that our engines will be putting out approximately the same horsepower. Thanks, Ken On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Chuck, > > Off-set for the Corvair is to the right. Mine is off-set eight washers, and > I still need to hold slight left rudder on straight and level. I'm maxed out > on adjustment and will need to re-design the RH bracket to get more > adjustment. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:12 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > --> > > OK, Tom. I will be using a Corvair engine which turns the 'wrong' way. I > plan to offset the vertical fin to counteract the torque. As I understand > it, the 'real' engine builders are off setting the fin -- front of fin -- to > the right. I guess I will have to offset mine to the left. Correct? Seems > that it should be the other way around. Chuck > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TOM STINEMETZE" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows > > >> >> Steve: >> >> The short answer is "yes" as gyroscopic forces always act 90 degrees from >> the plane of the directional change. i.e. tail comes up which forces the >> top of the blade forward which puts the gyroscopic force 90 degrees to the > >> right in a Corvair engine or 90 degrees to the left on a real airplane >> engine. You compensate for that with rudder offset or a trim tab. I have > >> been told that your brain and your feet react to the direction of movement > >> without even having to think about it but that's just hearsay for me since > >> I do not have any actual flight experience with a conventional gear >> airplane - yet. >> >> A standard turning aircraft engine tends to yaw the aircraft to the left >> when the tail comes up. This is just the opposite if the engine is >> turning in the opposite direction. >> >> That is the entire extent of my expansive knowledge on the subject. I am >> open to all corrections from the group without malice. >> >> Tom Stinemetze >> N328X >> McPherson, Ks. >> >>>>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" >>>>> 2/26/2013 1:14 PM >>> >> >> >> Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? >> >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: TOM STINEMETZE >> Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:53 >> Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> >>> >>> Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the >>> front. >>> >>> Stinemetze >>> >>> >>> >>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> >>> < >>> >>> Which way does a crank snapper rotate? >>> >>> Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) >>> climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due > >>> to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps > >>> on the right side. >>> >>> Blue Skies, >>> Steve D >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: TOM STINEMETZE < >>> Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:17 >>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> >>> >>> > Barry and Rick: >>> > >>> > I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the >>> > advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more >>> > balanced >>> > cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included >>> > the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the >>> > reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased >>> > pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest >>> > side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is >>> > the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs >>> > first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides >>> > via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the >>> > lower pressure side. >>> > >>> > Has anybody on the list tried this? >>> > >>> > Tom Stinemetze >>> > N328X >>> > McPherson, KS. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:00 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... Terry, If you attribute the sources of the original videos (specifically, mine) in the youtube comments section of your video, I will be more than satisfied, and you may continue to keep the video online. I'm not looking to make money - videos of Pietenpols ain't gonna make me rich - but I do want credit. That's not much to ask. Let me be _very_ clear here, for the sake of legality. Per the YouTube terms of service, section 6, paragraph C., I retain all ownership rights of all my content. Therefore, I am applying the "Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported" license to my work and all derivative work. To wit, You are free: to Share to copy, distribute and transmit the work to Remix to adapt the work Under the following conditions: Attribution You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work). Noncommercial You may not use this work for commercial purposes. Share Alike If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one. With the understanding that: Waiver Any of the above conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder. Public Domain Where the work or any of its elements is in the public domain under applicable law, that status is in no way affected by the license. Other Rights In no way are any of the following rights affected by the license: Your fair dealing or fair use rights, or other applicable copyright exceptions and limitations; The author's moral rights; Rights other persons may have either in the work itself or in how the work is used, such as publicity or privacy rights. Notice For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others the license terms of this work. The best way to do this is with a link to this web page. Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. Thank you, Dan yocum137@gmail.com On 02/26/2013 02:50 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > > Dan (Yocum, not Helsper), > > 1. I didn't post this yesterday. Dan Helsper did. He seemed to like it and thought others might as well. > 2. I never claimed to have filmed it. I do make claim to spending several hours cutting, splicing, then putting the music (which i had to purchase) to the videos, which I hope people enjoyed. > 3. Obviously, since you have pointed out the video sources, I have no need to, other than to say thank you to those pilots flying and videographers who captured the flying. If my use of their video is offensive I will be happy to remove this from YouTube. Just let me know, and that includes you, Dan. > 4. If there is anything else that I am doing or posting on this forum for which. you are unhappy, please feel free anytime to call me and discuss off-line. I am happy to talk with you and let others simply enjoy the positive builder's support that this Forum affords. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows From: Gary Boothe Sorry, Ken, I don't know that number. Dammit...guess I gotta go to the airport... Gary Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: > > Gary, as a data point, how much offset do your eight washers provide? > I set mine to 3/4" right offset. I'm wondering if that is too much or > too little, based on the assumption that our engines will be putting > out approximately the same horsepower. Thanks, Ken > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: >> >> Chuck, >> >> Off-set for the Corvair is to the right. Mine is off-set eight washers, and >> I still need to hold slight left rudder on straight and level. I'm maxed out >> on adjustment and will need to re-design the RH bracket to get more >> adjustment. >> >> Gary Boothe >> NX308MB >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell >> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:12 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >> >> --> >> >> OK, Tom. I will be using a Corvair engine which turns the 'wrong' way. I >> plan to offset the vertical fin to counteract the torque. As I understand >> it, the 'real' engine builders are off setting the fin -- front of fin -- to >> the right. I guess I will have to offset mine to the left. Correct? Seems >> that it should be the other way around. Chuck >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "TOM STINEMETZE" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:06 PM >> Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >> >> >>> >>> Steve: >>> >>> The short answer is "yes" as gyroscopic forces always act 90 degrees from >>> the plane of the directional change. i.e. tail comes up which forces the >>> top of the blade forward which puts the gyroscopic force 90 degrees to the >> >>> right in a Corvair engine or 90 degrees to the left on a real airplane >>> engine. You compensate for that with rudder offset or a trim tab. I have >> >>> been told that your brain and your feet react to the direction of movement >> >>> without even having to think about it but that's just hearsay for me since >> >>> I do not have any actual flight experience with a conventional gear >>> airplane - yet. >>> >>> A standard turning aircraft engine tends to yaw the aircraft to the left >>> when the tail comes up. This is just the opposite if the engine is >>> turning in the opposite direction. >>> >>> That is the entire extent of my expansive knowledge on the subject. I am >>> open to all corrections from the group without malice. >>> >>> Tom Stinemetze >>> N328X >>> McPherson, Ks. >>> >>>>>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" >>>>>> 2/26/2013 1:14 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> Then Does Pfactor want to turn your plane the other way? >>> >>> Blue Skies, >>> Steve D >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: TOM STINEMETZE >>> Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:53 >>> Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Whoops, my bad. A Corvair normally turns clockwise when viewed from the >>>> front. >>>> >>>> Stinemetze >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < 2/26/2013 11:00 AM >>> >>>> < >>>> >>>> Which way does a crank snapper rotate? >>>> >>>> Normally a plane in climb with a real engine (I am a contenental snob.) >>>> climbs with the prop pushing more air in the right side than the left due >> >>>> to the relative angle of the blade to the wind. Resulting in cooler temps >> >>>> on the right side. >>>> >>>> Blue Skies, >>>> Steve D >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: TOM STINEMETZE < >>>> Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:17 >>>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair eyebrows >>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> Barry and Rick: >>>>> >>>>> I recall reading a post by William Wynne where he discusses the >>>>> advantages of having the two eyebrow areas interconnected for more >>>>> balanced >>>>> cooling. I don't remember all of his reasoning but it included >>>>> the cooling difference per inlet in a climb attitude caused by the >>>>> reduced pitch of the upward moving blade compared to the increased >>>>> pitch of the downward moving blade. As a consequence, the hottest >>>>> side of the Corvair engine in the highest power regime (climb) is >>>>> the right cylinder bank which is where detonation normally occurs >>>>> first. He suggested, at the very least, connecting the two sides >>>>> via a scat tube to allow the higher pressure side to help cool the >>>>> lower pressure side. >>>>> >>>>> Has anybody on the list tried this? >>>>> >>>>> Tom Stinemetze >>>>> N328X >>>>> McPherson, KS. > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:57 PM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet-corvair wiring diagram For Ken and Jack and anyone else that may be interested, attached is the wiring schematic I designed and used for my corvair installation. Just be aware that this design is unflight proven. Regards, Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: motivation From: "Larry V" I would like to say I read this forum every day and it keeps me motivated. I met Mike Cuy at Airventure . Jack Phillips at Brodehead and Bill Church at Jim Armstrongs Pietenpol flyin at Brussels Ont. I had my first flight in Brians Pietenpol C- FAUK and got hooked to build one. attached are some pictures of my progress. Larry V Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395149#395149 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sany0524_841.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/101_0559_961.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2036_143.jpg ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:48 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motivation Larry, That's a beautiful plane. You do great work, and you should be proud! Hope to see you and your steed at Brodhead in the not-too-distant future. Cheers! Dan do not archive On 02/26/2013 09:53 PM, Larry V wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Larry V" > > I would like to say I read this forum every day and it keeps me motivated. > I met Mike Cuy at Airventure . Jack Phillips at Brodehead and Bill Church > at Jim Armstrongs Pietenpol flyin at Brussels Ont. I had my first flight in Brians Pietenpol C- FAUK and got hooked to build one. attached are some > pictures of my progress. > Larry V > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395149#395149 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/sany0524_841.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/101_0559_961.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2036_143.jpg > > -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: motivation From: "taildrags" Now see, you took a whole different approach on how to handle the way the rib top capstrip lands on the spars. Your gussets take care of the gap. I don't think I've seen that before. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395151#395151 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... From: "taildrags" I have a short Piet video of Scout which may be entertaining, but I don't have a YouTube account and wouldn't know what to do with it if I did. The video was taken with a smart phone, so it's not great quality but if people are snowed in and wasting away in their cold basements waiting for spring thaw, sometimes just some real flying videos can be entertaining. This one may also prove to be educational. If somebody can convert a smart phone video to YouTube and post it for me, email me offline and I'll send it. No strings attached, no fine print. taildrags@hotmail.com do not archive -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395152#395152 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I'm motivated... From: "tools" Wow, Dan, you used the words "to wit"... Two syllables in two sentences... amazing!! That's somewhere around... let me see, one syllable per sentence... or so. What's Helsper's liability in all of this? Hopefully none, but you do seem to be a stickler on this issue, better not to give passes on favoritism because that certainly doesn't fly well in the face of legality. This sounds pretty pretty serious... O M G !!!!! It's the middle of winter, we all need some humor to keep us going. THANKS DAN!! Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395153#395153 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet-corvair wiring diagram From: Ken Bickers Thanks, Rick. I've stored this for reference, hopefully, in the near future. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote: > For Ken and Jack and anyone else that may be interested, attached is the > wiring schematic I designed and used for my corvair installation. Just be > aware that this design is unflight proven. > > Regards, > Rick Schreiber > Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar Grove hook up From: Rick Jack, Even if I don't get the Piet done in time I would still fly into Poplar Grove in my Tripacer. Do you guys plan on refueling anywhere near VPZ when you come through Indiana? Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad On Feb 26, 2013, at 9:25 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > Rick, > > I'll still be working on the Bed & Breakfast, but I will be at Brodhead this > summer with my Pietenpol. There's a whole bunch of us planning to go > together - from Virginia there will be Gene Rambo with his brand new Model A > powered Pietenpol (if he gets it flying in time), Brett Phillips with his > rebuilt Model A powered ship originally built by Kerri-Ann Price, Matt > Paxton and myself with our Continental powered Piets, and we'll be picking > up Douwe Blumberg and anyone else who has a Pietenpol in Virginia, southern > West Virginia, eastern kentucky, southern Ohio or Indiana on the way. > > Hope to see yours there, and maybe you can join up with us at Poplar Grove > before the last leg to Brodhead. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > Do you plan on going to Brodhead this year or will you still be working on > the B&B? > > > Regards, > Rick Schreiber > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.