---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/04/13: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:26 AM - Re: Re: Hat Box, Glove Box (Jack) 2. 05:00 AM - Re: Hat Box, Glove Box (nightmare) 3. 06:27 AM - Re: Hat Box, Glove Box (Bill Church) 4. 07:10 AM - Re: Hat Box, Glove Box (nightmare) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: motivation (Bill Church) 6. 08:15 AM - Re: Re: Once around the patch (Jim Boyer) 7. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Once around the patch (Ray Krause) 8. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Once around the patch (Gary Boothe) 9. 09:05 AM - Re: Hat Box, Glove Box (dgaldrich) 10. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Once around the patch (Ray Krause) 11. 09:25 AM - My antique Smith Airline torches (Jerry Dotson) 12. 09:47 AM - Re: My antique Smith Airline torches (nightmare) 13. 10:18 AM - Re: My antique Smith Airline torches (Gary Boothe) 14. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Once around the patch (Jim Boyer) 15. 10:25 AM - Re: My antique Smith Airline torches (Jim Boyer) 16. 06:38 PM - 33% or 36% MAC? (Boatright, Jeffrey) 17. 06:53 PM - Re: 33% or 36% MAC? (Gary Boothe) 18. 09:32 PM - Re: 33% or 36% MAC? (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hat Box, Glove Box From: Jack Paul here is another variation. There are a couple more pictures on my site http://www.textors.com/IMG_7497_1600x1067.jpg Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Mar 3, 2013, at 3:57 PM, "cjborsuk" wrote: > > Paul, > > Do these help? > > Chuck > 989CB > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395547#395547 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/front_620.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0110_136.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hat Box, Glove Box From: "nightmare" Looks good Jack. The inner carpenter in me likes how that bottom piece of wood is not widdled away at the ends. Plus, the more stout motor mount will allow my future chevy 454 auto conversion. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395584#395584 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hat Box, Glove Box From: "Bill Church" Paul, Just for the record, the motor mount doesn't hold the front end of the plane together. The front end of the fuselage is held very solidly by all of the glued wood surfaces, including the firewall, which acts as a huge gusset. Bill C. Paul wrote: > Thanks Chuck. That does help. It seems odd that its not designed so the fitting ties together the bottom wood 1x . But I guess the motor mount does a good job keeping the forward fuselage nice and solid. Thanks.Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395589#395589 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hat Box, Glove Box From: "nightmare" Ahhh, now that makes sense. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395593#395593 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: motivation From: "Bill Church" Wow Earl. REALLY nice work. Very clean and precise. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395595#395595 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:58 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch Yeah and I had to attend a grand-daughters party so I couldn't go to see Rays Sky Scout or Gary flying. Jim ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:01 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch Sorry, guys! Did not know I ruined the day for so many of my friends. I wi ll try to make it up to you. Ray Sent from my iPad On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:14 AM, Jim Boyer wrote: > Yeah and I had to attend a grand-daughters party so I couldn't go to see R ays Sky Scout or Gary flying. > > Jim > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:10 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch YES! and would have much rather seen your Sky Scout project rather than go flying! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch Sorry, guys! Did not know I ruined the day for so many of my friends. I will try to make it up to you. Ray Sent from my iPad On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:14 AM, Jim Boyer wrote: Yeah and I had to attend a grand-daughters party so I couldn't go to see Rays Sky Scout or Gary flying. Jim 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hat Box, Glove Box From: "dgaldrich" Beautiful work but I notice the lack of shoulder harness fittings for the rear cockpit. My personal decision was to give up the space and mount a decent 4 point harness. That decision was based on the experience of our own Axel Purtee, as well as a LOT of other credible sources. There's an old saying in the nautical community -- "Every ship steers by her own compass" -- and that certainly applies to personal choices involving things like safety and aesthetics so consider your choices carefully. This is not a low risk hobby like stamp collecting. Stepping down off soap box now... Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395607#395607 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:55 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch Now, I thought you were a truthful friend! Ray Sent from my iPad On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:49 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > YES! and would have much rather seen your Sky Scout project rathe r than go flying! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause > Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 8:27 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch > > Sorry, guys! Did not know I ruined the day for so many of my friends. I w ill try to make it up to you. > > Ray > > Sent from my iPad > > On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:14 AM, Jim Boyer wrote: > > Yeah and I had to attend a grand-daughters party so I couldn't go to see R ays Sky Scout or Gary flying. > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: My antique Smith Airline torches From: "Jerry Dotson" I am posting this just for the nostalgia of having built my Pietenpol with torches that are older than I am and I happen to be 66 years old! They were my dad's when he worked for Luscombe. He built engine mounts. These are my Smith Airline torches. Dainty little guy. With the cutting attachment on like shown it is only 13" long. The little tools are tip cleaners. Each torch has a number 20 through 29 with 20 being the smallest. Each tip has a numbered tip cleaner to match. They are little drill bits with a brass hex molded on. I have more than 1 of a couple of sizes. Everything is 100% operational. Not bad considering their age. -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395608#395608 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a17_159.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a14_196.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My antique Smith Airline torches From: "nightmare" Love that story. And torch welding. Check out this little baby. Only about 5 years old though -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395612#395612 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130304_123746_210.jpg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My antique Smith Airline torches From: Gary Boothe Especially cool, considering their history!! Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:24 AM, "Jerry Dotson" wrote: > > I am posting this just for the nostalgia of having built my Pietenpol with torches that are older than I am and I happen to be 66 years old! They were my dad's when he worked for Luscombe. He built engine mounts. > > These are my Smith Airline torches. Dainty little guy. With the cutting attachment on like shown it is only 13" long. The little tools are tip cleaners. Each torch has a number 20 through 29 with 20 being the smallest. Each tip has a numbered tip cleaner to match. They are little drill bits with a brass hex molded on. I have more than 1 of a couple of sizes. Everything is 100% operational. Not bad considering their age. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > > First flight June 16,2012 > Flying in phase 2 > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395608#395608 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a17_159.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/a14_196.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:22 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch Gary I think your nose is going to grow for that one! Cheers, Jim YES! and would have much rather seen your Sky Scout project rather than go flying! =C2- Gary Boothe NX308MB =C2- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Once around the patch =C2- Sorry, guys! =C2-Did not know I ruined the day for so many of my friends. =C2-I will try to make it up to you. =C2- Ray Sent from my iPad On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:14 AM, Jim Boyer < boyerjrb@comcast.net > wrote: Yeah and I had to attend a grand-daughters party so I couldn't go to see Ra ys Sky Scout or Gary flying. Jim ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:23 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My antique Smith Airline torches Hi Jerry, Thats especially neat that they all work, and at our age (75 here) that may not be true of all parts! Cheers, Jim I am posting this just for the nostalgia of having built my Pietenpol with torches that are older than I am and I happen to be 66 years old! They were my dad's when he worked for Luscombe. He built engine mounts. These are =C2-my Smith Airline torches. Dainty little guy. With the cutti ng attachment on like shown it is only 13" long. The little tools are tip c leaners. Each torch has a number 20 through 29 with 20 being the smallest. Each tip has a numbered tip cleaner to match. They are little drill bits wi th a brass hex molded on. I have more than 1 of a couple of sizes. Everythi ng is 100% operational. Not bad considering their age. -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395608#395608 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a17_159.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/a14_196.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:17 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Pietenpol-List: 33% or 36% MAC? I was reading an Aeronca Champ POH and find that the center of gravity rang e is 18.0% M.A.C. most forward and 36.O%M.A.C. most rearward. I've read t he list that the limits for the FC10 Pietenpol airfoil are 25-33% MAC. A 33 % aft limit seems fairly standard. What's special about the Champ's airfoil that it allows such a wide range? ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:08 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 33% or 36% MAC? Jeff, As I understand, the Champ and the Chief both had 4412 airfoils. The Champ was originally designed to fly on 50 hp, needing a hi-lift airfoil to help it get off the ground. Cessna 120's and 140's never had less than 85 hp, and used the 2412 airfoil.less camber. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 6:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 33% or 36% MAC? I was reading an Aeronca Champ POH and find that the center of gravity range is 18.0% M.A.C. most forward and 36.O%M.A.C. most rearward. I've read the list that the limits for the FC10 Pietenpol airfoil are 25-33% MAC. A 33% aft limit seems fairly standard. What's special about the Champ's airfoil that it allows such a wide range? _____ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 33% or 36% MAC? From: "taildrags" Gary; I don't believe anyone has ever formally tested the FC-10 airfoil to determine any real "numbers" for it; certainly not anything like putting it in the wind tunnel. The published CG limits are more along the lines of what was commonly accepted for airfoils of its era and general shape and loading, and are sort of just good aeronautical rules of thumb for CG range for these airfoils. Later developments, modern aircraft such as the C-120/140, T'Craft, Champ, Cub and others had relatively much more sophisticated airfoils that benefitted from the work of NACA and wartime development to produce scientific refinements to airfoils. Mr. Pietenpol only had the wooden floor of his barn, his French curve, a lead pencil, and his Mark I calibrated eyeball to guide him. This is a subject that has come up fairly regularly over the years, and there are two or three camps on the issue. At the far right (conservative) are those who claim, and rightly so, "it has worked for years this way, don't mess with it, Air Campers aren't falling out of the sky". The far left (liberal or progressives) say, "we know a lot more about airfoil modeling with computers nowadays, so let's put the FC-10 into a program like ProFoil or one of the others and let's get the REAL numbers on it." The middle camp (most of us), just shrug our shoulders and move on. I was a small part of a group of people who worked on the development of an airfoil specifically designed to maximize the performance of the Rand Robinson KR-2 and -2S homebuilt aircraft. This resulted in the testing, refinement, and publication of the new airfoil (actually a series of airfoils from 15% to 18% thickness), dubbed the AS504x series. This airfoil is flying today on various KRs and its benefits have been proven. You can read more about it here: http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ but the bottom line from my perspective is, "don't mess with Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper". -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395663#395663 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.