---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/12/13: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:42 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (Jack Phillips) 2. 04:52 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (jarheadpilot82) 3. 05:21 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (Mario Giacummo) 4. 05:31 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (helspersew@aol.com) 5. 05:48 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (giacummo) 6. 05:51 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (giacummo) 7. 06:56 AM - Off-topic but related (helspersew@aol.com) 8. 07:07 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (Michael Perez) 9. 07:07 AM - Re: Off-topic but related (Gary Boothe) 10. 07:09 AM - Re: Off-topic but related (Michael Perez) 11. 07:40 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (Jack) 12. 07:53 AM - Re: Off-topic but related (airlion2@gmail.com) 13. 07:59 AM - Re: Off-topic but related (Rick Schreiber) 14. 08:27 AM - Re: Off-topic but related (Hans van der Voort) 15. 08:30 AM - Re: corvair cowl (Hans van der Voort) 16. 09:13 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (dgaldrich) 17. 11:35 AM - Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs (John Francis) 18. 12:03 PM - Re: Off-topic but related (Jerry Dotson) 19. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Off-topic but related (airlion2@gmail.com) 20. 05:25 PM - Re: Off-topic but related (tools) 21. 09:16 PM - Re: corvair cowl (Chris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:27 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs Terry, I didn't glue my ribs to the spar at all. They are nailed through the capstrip but not glued. It is useful to be able to slide them slightly left or right to help clear the drag and anti-drag wires, and it is best to not have them free to move slightly for trammeling the wing. Once the rib lacing is in place they cannot move anyway. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jarheadpilot82 Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs A quick question as I am currently working on rib #20 and expect to be finished with wing ribs in the next couple of weeks. Instead of moving on to the wing spar, I plan on working on the tail feathers next as I have the wood (thanks again to Dave Aldrich) for that. It may be a while before I do the spars and attach the ribs. I know that I need to seal the wood at some point, and I thought I had read it was better to attach to the spar and then seal the wood so as to have a good glue seal between the ribs and the spar. So my question is this - can I/should I seal the ribs, but not where the wood attaches to the spar, or just not worry about it for now? If I leave them unsealed, should I leave them in the house, as opposed to the unheated uncooled workshop? Thanks in advance for the answers. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396047#396047 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs From: "jarheadpilot82" Thanks, Jack(s). [Laughing] Both comments help a lot, and that is what I like best about the forum. Solid, logical advice based upon experience. Thanks again. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396078#396078 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:09 AM PST US From: Mario Giacummo Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs Hi, About gluing the ribs to the spars... I've glued them all, but I ask, It is common to leave them "free"?.. In the leading and trailng edge they have to be glued, so....why not glue them over/down the spars? once they are glued to the edges, you can not move them to anywhere. mario Mario Giacummo . -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- / ...- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - . 2013/3/12 Jack Phillips > jack@bedfordlandings.com> > > Terry, I didn't glue my ribs to the spar at all. They are nailed through > the capstrip but not glued. It is useful to be able to slide them slightly > left or right to help clear the drag and anti-drag wires, and it is best to > not have them free to move slightly for trammeling the wing. Once the rib > lacing is in place they cannot move anyway. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jarheadpilot82 > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:31 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs > > > > A quick question as I am currently working on rib #20 and expect to be > finished with wing ribs in the next couple of weeks. > > Instead of moving on to the wing spar, I plan on working on the tail > feathers next as I have the wood (thanks again to Dave Aldrich) for that. > It > may be a while before I do the spars and attach the ribs. I know that I > need > to seal the wood at some point, and I thought I had read it was better to > attach to the spar and then seal the wood so as to have a good glue seal > between the ribs and the spar. > > So my question is this - can I/should I seal the ribs, but not where the > wood attaches to the spar, or just not worry about it for now? If I leave > them unsealed, should I leave them in the house, as opposed to the unheated > uncooled workshop? > > Thanks in advance for the answers. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396047#396047 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs From: helspersew@aol.com Mario, I glued mine. I guess it is not necessary but it made me "feel" better. Dan Hesper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Mario Giacummo Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2013 7:21 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs Hi, About gluing the ribs to the spars... I've glued them all, but I ask, It is common to leave them "free"?.. In the leading and trailng edge they have t o be glued, so....why not glue them over/down the spars? once they are glue d to the edges, you can not move them to anywhere. mario Mario Giacummo . -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- / ... - .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - . 2013/3/12 Jack Phillips .com> Terry, I didn't glue my ribs to the spar at all. They are nailed through the capstrip but not glued. It is useful to be able to slide them slightly left or right to help clear the drag and anti-drag wires, and it is best to not have them free to move slightly for trammeling the wing. Once the rib lacing is in place they cannot move anyway. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jarheadpilot82 Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs A quick question as I am currently working on rib #20 and expect to be finished with wing ribs in the next couple of weeks. Instead of moving on to the wing spar, I plan on working on the tail feathers next as I have the wood (thanks again to Dave Aldrich) for that. I t may be a while before I do the spars and attach the ribs. I know that I nee d to seal the wood at some point, and I thought I had read it was better to attach to the spar and then seal the wood so as to have a good glue seal between the ribs and the spar. So my question is this - can I/should I seal the ribs, but not where the wood attaches to the spar, or just not worry about it for now? If I leave them unsealed, should I leave them in the house, as opposed to the unheated uncooled workshop? Thanks in advance for the answers. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396047#396047 st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs From: "giacummo" Me too -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396080#396080 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs From: "giacummo" You have to cover your plane with something transparent like mylar... -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396081#396081 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic but related From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Guys, Does anyone know if waterproof glue will stick to pressure-treated construc tion wood? This will be outside all the time. Fence components that will be nailed together and if I can get glue to stick it will keep them from twis ting nine ways to Sunday. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:07 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs Terry, it is best to do all of your epoxy to bare, clean, unsealed wood.- The ribs will be fine unsealed as long as they are not outside in the elem ents. (as mentioned)- Some other thoughts: I have epoxied- wood pieces, mostly plywood, over sealed wood and was sur prised how strong it was. (non aircraft projects)- I epoxied my ribs to t he spars, but if it is OK not to epoxy the ribs to the spars, ( you could n ail or leave free)- you could seal the ribs now, epoxy to the spars later , (over the varnish) and that would hold them in place long enough for wing assembly. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic but related From: Gary Boothe Use construction adhesive in 24oz tubes. Gary Sent from my iPhone On Mar 12, 2013, at 6:56 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Does anyone know if waterproof glue will stick to pressure-treated constru ction wood? This will be outside all the time. Fence components that will be nailed together and if I can get glue to stick it will keep them from twist ing nine ways to Sunday. > > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:13 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic but related I am no expert, but I was under the impression glues/adhesives did not work well with treated lumber. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs From: Jack Mine are glued Mario Sent from my iPhone On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:20 AM, Mario Giacummo wrote : > Hi, > > About gluing the ribs to the spars... I've glued them all, but I ask, It i s common to leave them "free"?.. In the leading and trailng edge they have t o be glued, so....why not glue them over/down the spars? once they are glued to the edges, you can not move them to anywhere. > > mario > > Mario Giacummo > . -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- / .. .- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - . > > > 2013/3/12 Jack Phillips s.com> > > Terry, I didn't glue my ribs to the spar at all. They are nailed through > the capstrip but not glued. It is useful to be able to slide them slightl y > left or right to help clear the drag and anti-drag wires, and it is best t o > not have them free to move slightly for trammeling the wing. Once the rib > lacing is in place they cannot move anyway. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jarheadpilot82 > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 6:31 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs > > > > A quick question as I am currently working on rib #20 and expect to be > finished with wing ribs in the next couple of weeks. > > Instead of moving on to the wing spar, I plan on working on the tail > feathers next as I have the wood (thanks again to Dave Aldrich) for that. I t > may be a while before I do the spars and attach the ribs. I know that I ne ed > to seal the wood at some point, and I thought I had read it was better to > attach to the spar and then seal the wood so as to have a good glue seal > between the ribs and the spar. > > So my question is this - can I/should I seal the ribs, but not where the > wood attaches to the spar, or just not worry about it for now? If I leave > them unsealed, should I leave them in the house, as opposed to the unheate d > uncooled workshop? > > Thanks in advance for the answers. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396047#396047 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic but related From: airlion2@gmail.com Use deck screws Dan . That will keep the wood from twisting. That is what ai m doing right now. gardiner Sent from my iPad On Mar 12, 2013, at 9:56 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Does anyone know if waterproof glue will stick to pressure-treated constru ction wood? This will be outside all the time. Fence components that will be nailed together and if I can get glue to stick it will keep them from twist ing nine ways to Sunday. > > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:22 AM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic but related On 3/12/2013 8:56 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Hi Guys, > Does anyone know if waterproof glue will stick to pressure-treated > construction wood? This will be outside all the time. Fence components > that will be nailed together and if I can get glue to stick it will > keep them from twisting nine ways to Sunday. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > Dan, As Gary said use the construction adhesive in tubes. Check the info on the tube as there is some that is made specially for pressure treated lumber. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:16 AM PST US From: Hans van der Voort Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic but related I used the left over T 88 to build a small garden bridge out of pressure tr eated wood.=0AHas been outside since 2006 and still standing.=0A-=0AHans, =0AWaller,TX=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "helspersew @aol.com" =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:56 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic but re lated=0A =0A=0AHi Guys, =0A- =0ADoes anyone know if waterproof glue will stick to pressure-treated construction wood? This will be outside all the time. Fence components that will be nailed together and if I can get glue t o stick it will keep them from twisting nine ways to Sunday. =0A=0A=0ADan H = ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:28 AM PST US From: Hans van der Voort Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair cowl Joe,=0A-=0AThe drawing was available on Mykitplane.com, but I noticed tha t ww.Mykitplane.com is no longer operational.=0AI will dig up the orginal f ile and send you a copy.=0A-=0AThanks=0A-=0AHans=0ANX15KV=0AWaller, TX =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: JOSEPH SWITHIN =0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:35 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: cor vair cowl=0A =0A=0AHans, =0AI really liked the look of the cowl. Do you ha ve a drawing with dimensions available? I looks cleaner than most I have se en.=0AThanks=0AJoe Swithin=0AMorris, IL =0AHunting & Gathering Mode=0A=0A -======================== =================== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs From: "dgaldrich" Hi Terry I made a "dunk tank" out of a 1 ft x 6 ft spare piece of MDF and some 2 inch side rails and did the full immersion baptism of the ribs. Used thinned spar varnish and did it twice, looking for penetration and not beauty. The benefit of doing it before storage is that they are sealed and more or less immune to any affects that the environment might have. Of course I'VE never spilled anything accidentally or had mice nest someplace they shouldn't... Ref the attachment to spar discussion -- I tend to take the nails/Jack Phillips side rather than glue for one reason. If you ever have to rebuild a wing (like Axel, Jack, Douwe, and Gardiner), it's easier to disassemble nails than glue. Now if you used a relatively weak glue that would hold things in place until after rib stitching but could be broken without damage to the ribs or spar, that would work too. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396099#396099 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Almost Finished With Wing Ribs From: "John Francis" Terry, They will be fine if just kept indoors and dry. It would be difficult to not varnish the areas that you will apply glue later. It's not just the area that is attached to the spars but what about the trailing and leading edges? Or the plywood on the leading edge? And how about all the cutting and gluing required when the ailerons are built and cut out. It is just too complicated and not worth the effort in my opinion. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396109#396109 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Off-topic but related From: "Jerry Dotson" TiteBond 3 will do it if the wood is fairly dry. A lot of the treated wood we get here has water/chemical literally dripping off it. Separate the wood it so it can dry first. worth what it cost ya............. -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396111#396111 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Off-topic but related From: airlion2@gmail.com Jerry, are you going to Brodhead this year? gardiner mason Sent from my iPad On Mar 12, 2013, at 3:03 PM, "Jerry Dotson" wrote: > > TiteBond 3 will do it if the wood is fairly dry. A lot of the treated wood we get here has water/chemical literally dripping off it. Separate the wood it so it can dry first. > > worth what it cost ya............. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > > First flight June 16,2012 > Flying in phase 2 > Lycoming O-235 C2C > Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396111#396111 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Off-topic but related From: "tools" If the wood is dry enough, the glue will do as well as it can... By that I mean, wood outside, not REALLY well sealed, will move seasonally as much as wood can. If any of these fence components are attached at right angles (and likely they are), the joints WILL fail, regardless of how well the glue takes hold. Even indoors, it's inevitable, reference dowel joints. Just as sure as nails will eventually back themselves out. I've repaired LOTS of chairs made with dowel joinery. The nature of the joint makes sure that is going to happen, unless it's kept at a very steady humidity level. You are better off with deck screws as mentioned. If the wood grain is aligned, it's hit or miss. If you have edges of boards glued up that are all similar in grain orientation, they might survive. If you have quartersawn glued to flat sawn (for example), you have differential expansion rates, and the joint will fail. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396126#396126 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:03 PM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: corvair cowl Hans, Joe I think I have a copy of the drawing. See Attached. Chris Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans van der Voort Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair cowl Joe, The drawing was available on Mykitplane.com, but I noticed that ww.Mykitplane.com is no longer operational. I will dig up the orginal file and send you a copy. Thanks Hans NX15KV Waller, TX From: JOSEPH SWITHIN Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:35 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair cowl Hans, I really liked the look of the cowl. Do you have a drawing with dimensions available? I looks cleaner than most I have seen. Thanks Joe Swithin Morris, IL Hunting & Gathering Mode ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.