---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/03/13: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:37 AM - Re: New Builder just starting (caldwrl) 2. 05:19 AM - Re: satellite tracking devices (AircamperN11MS) 3. 05:26 AM - Re: West coast Pieter's (AircamperN11MS) 4. 09:16 AM - Re: First Flight (CraigAho) 5. 09:24 AM - Re: Hangar rats (CraigAho) 6. 10:00 AM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Gary Boothe) 7. 10:29 AM - Re: West coast Pieter's (Ray Krause) 8. 10:59 AM - Re: West coast Pieter's (Ray Krause) 9. 11:09 AM - Re: West coast Pieter's (Gary Boothe) 10. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Craig Aho) 11. 11:33 AM - Re: West coast Pieter's (Tim70) 12. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: West coast Pieter's (Jim Boyer) 13. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: West coast Pieter's (Gary Boothe) 14. 12:21 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (John Egan) 15. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Gary Boothe) 16. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Ken Bickers) 17. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Gary Boothe) 18. 01:05 PM - Re: New Builder just starting (V Groah) 19. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Ken Bickers) 20. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Gary Boothe) 21. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Ken Bickers) 22. 02:59 PM - Virginia Pietenpols (woodflier) 23. 03:07 PM - Re: New Builder just starting (Mike Rich) 24. 03:50 PM - Re: New Builder just starting (airlion2@gmail.com) 25. 05:30 PM - Re: West coast Pieter's (Ray Krause) 26. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: West coast Pieter's (Ray Krause) 27. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (helspersew@aol.com) 28. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Hangar rats (Ken Bickers) 29. 09:46 PM - Re: Cables; control and brace (Mark Roberts) 30. 10:15 PM - Re: Hangar rats (Mark Roberts) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Builder just starting From: "caldwrl" Welcome to the world of Pietenpol builders, Mike. You have received lots of advice from the list, so I won't waste your time repeating all that good stuff. I am currently in the building process so when you want to venture out and see Piets in the area, put me on your list. I live at Holly Lake Ranch, about 100 clicks east of Dallas. We can discuss my build anytime you want and you are welcome to come visit and put your hands and eyes on it. I have found that seeing an Air Camper up close, either being built or already flying, is the most educational and motivating thing you can do. Feel free to contact me off-list if you want. -------- Robert Caldwell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397718#397718 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: satellite tracking devices From: "AircamperN11MS" Welcome Jim, I remember that airplane. I had seen it at Brodhead back in 1996. I think it was from the new england states back in the day. I think you found yourself a good one. Happy landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397721#397721 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West coast Pieter's From: "AircamperN11MS" Ok, I see I am going to have to find my SFO chart and start marking out the requested stops and see where that leaves us. I'll start marking the destinations and then we can connect the dots at the gathering. We'll just figure it out as it moves along. Keep the ideas coming. Looking forward to it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397722#397722 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Flight From: "CraigAho" Beautiful. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397747#397747 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: "CraigAho" What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I will either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you have any close up shots of your Axel assy. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:21 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Craig, My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block to serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables around the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axle in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I came up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before that axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to do something else (or not). Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I will either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you have any close up shots of your Axel assy. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:31 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's Thanks, Mike. The SkyScout is a whole different story and medium for me. I t hought working with wood would be easy and more familiar than working with a luminum, and it has been. But the metal (steel) work is a real learning pro cess! It has certainly slowed me down. If the Barnstorming Tour materializes , plan on a visit to Colusa to check on my progress on my SkyScout. We coul d put most, if not all, of the group up here at my place. Maybe you fellas c an make some metal parts for me while you are here! Then we can visit Gary' s Lincoln lair and see what he is up to! There is also supposed to be a Pie tenpol in Oroville, but I have not seen it. There is also one in Chico. Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:58 PM, Michael Groah wrote: > Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing the waiex again. He did an awesome j ob. I'm sure his sky scout will look just as good. > > Mike > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:23 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > >> "Count me IN, even though I ain't got no head gear!" >> >> Ray's going to make us look bad in his Waiex... >> >> >> >> Gary Boothe >> NX308MB >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause >> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 10:42 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's >> >> --> >> >> Would this be restricted to Pietenpols only? Mine is not ready, but wou ld consider going along in my Waiex or Aeronca. Aeronca is NORCO, except ha nd-held. >> >> Ray Krause! >> >> SkyScout in progress >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Apr 2, 2013, at 8:20 AM, "AircamperN11MS" w rote: >> >> > --> >> > >> > Pieter's >> > >> > How many of you would like to spend some time (one day or more) barnsto rming around central CA after the Hollister gathering? It would be a fun t ime for all. I am interested, anyone else??? >> > >> > -------- >> > Scott Liefeld >> > Flying N11MS since March 1972 >> > Steel Tube >> > C-85-12 >> > Wire Wheels >> > Brodhead in 1996 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397653#397653 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> http://forums.matronics.com >> >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:03 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's Gary, I usually charge a royalty fee for the use of such "un-official" photos, bu t I will let it slip this time; since it makes me look younger than I reall y am! Ray Sent from my iPad On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:23 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > "Count me IN, even though I ain't got no head gear!" > > Ray's going to make us look bad in his Waiex... > > > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 10:42 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's > > --> > > Would this be restricted to Pietenpols only? Mine is not ready, but woul d consider going along in my Waiex or Aeronca. Aeronca is NORCO, except han d-held. > > Ray Krause! > > SkyScout in progress > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 2, 2013, at 8:20 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wr ote: > > > --> > > > > Pieter's > > > > How many of you would like to spend some time (one day or more) barnstor ming around central CA after the Hollister gathering? It would be a fun ti me for all. I am interested, anyone else??? > > > > -------- > > Scott Liefeld > > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > > Steel Tube > > C-85-12 > > Wire Wheels > > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397653#397653 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:34 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's It was taken 4 yrs ago! I=99ll bet your Waiex looks exactly the same, thoughand that=99s what really matters! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's Gary, I usually charge a royalty fee for the use of such "un-official" photos, but I will let it slip this time; since it makes me look younger than I really am! Ray Sent from my iPad On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:23 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: "Count me IN, even though I ain't got no head gear!" Ray's going to make us look bad in his Waiex... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's --> < raykrause@frontiernet.net> Would this be restricted to Pietenpols only? Mine is not ready, but would consider going along in my Waiex or Aeronca. Aeronca is NORCO, except hand-held. Ray Krause! SkyScout in progress Sent from my iPad On Apr 2, 2013, at 8:20 AM, "AircamperN11MS" < Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote: > --> < Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > Pieter's > > How many of you would like to spend some time (one day or more) barnstorming around central CA after the Hollister gathering? It would be a fun time for all. I am interested, anyone else??? > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397653#397653 > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:04 AM PST US From: Craig Aho Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Thanks Gary=2C Interesting setup and definitly looks strong. The one I had on my old ship was rather crude but with the marginal drum brakes it worked . I have always thought I would go with the setup like Mike Cuy's. I will d o some more study before I decide. I certainly would like to make the Piet Fly in and will consider it. Thanks again. Craig > From: gboothe5@comcast.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats > Date: Wed=2C 3 Apr 2013 09:59:22 -0700 > > Craig=2C > > My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were > barely functional=2C and I had a steel tube running through the ash block to > serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake > linings through McMaster-Carr=2C and they worked so well that on the firs t > taxi test they ripped the tubes right out=2C wrapped up my brake cables a round > the axle=2C ripping them out of the heel brake connections! > > The hole thru my axle already existed=2C as that holds the actual wheel a xle > in place=2C and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So=2C I came > up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before t hat > axle ever rotates again=2C the entire gear will be gone! > > Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant =2C > but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to do > something else (or not). > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho > Sent: Wednesday=2C April 03=2C 2013 9:25 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats > > > What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful > since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to > use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked > but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I wi ll > either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you > have any close up shots of your Axel assy. > > Craig > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West coast Pieter's From: "Tim70" West coast pieters, Guess its time to end being a lurker. Yes Ray I have a piet here in Oroville My name is Tim Wall and Gary and Chris I have met. I'm working to finish covering tail feathers and fuse on 'original' piet with corvair power. John Watson built a piet in Chico in 2001 and he and his son keep it at chico muni I think. There is a fellow in Red Bluff and another in Quincy. both I've talked with. I also have room for up to six "barnstormers" here at my home. I'll post pics soon. See you all at Frazier Lake! Tim Wall Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397768#397768 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:06 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: West coast Pieter's Hi Scott and all; If you should wander North as far as Sonoma county there are several spots you all could visit; mine in Santa Rosa, Darrel in Sonoma Skypark, Walt I think is now in Gnoss field and of course now Gary is at lincoln with Mike Weaver building, Kevin McDonald is at Nut Tree airport with his Model A Piet. It goes on and on. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:42 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: West coast Pieter's Ah...Yes! They all come out of the closet eventually... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim70 Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West coast Pieter's West coast pieters, Guess its time to end being a lurker. Yes Ray I have a piet here in Oroville My name is Tim Wall and Gary and Chris I have met. I'm working to finish covering tail feathers and fuse on 'original' piet with corvair power. John Watson built a piet in Chico in 2001 and he and his son keep it at chico muni I think. There is a fellow in Red Bluff and another in Quincy. both I've talked with. I also have room for up to six "barnstormers" here at my home. I'll post pics soon. See you all at Frazier Lake! Tim Wall Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397768#397768 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: John Egan <1smilingmoon@gmail.com> Gary, Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during run up with this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if you were to do it again? Thanks so much, John Egan Greenville, Wi Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up here... On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Craig, > > My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were > barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block to > serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake > linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first > taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables > around > the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! > > The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axle > in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I came > up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before > that > axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! > > Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, > but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to > do > something else (or not). > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats > > > What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful > since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to > use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked > but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I will > either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you > have any close up shots of your Axel assy. > > Craig > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:28 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Hi John, McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348. When you get into the brake lining section on their website, you can find all sorts of widths, thicknesses and friction ratings. My brakes are simply cable actuated go-kart band brakes. As originally installed, they would not hold over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old lining and glued in the new linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a normal run-up!! For large wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellent! Best wishes on your covering. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Gary, Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during run up with this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if you were to do it again? Thanks so much, John Egan Greenville, Wi Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up here... On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Craig, My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block to serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables around the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axle in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I came up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before that axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to do something else (or not). Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I will either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you have any close up shots of your Axel assy. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: Ken Bickers Gary, I also have installed cable operated band brakes (the ones sold by Aircraft Spruce). They don't seem to hold very well, though all the experiments have been using a two-man powered "motor." My question is the orientation of your band brakes. Do you have them positioned so that they are self-actuating when the airplane is trying to move forward? Or, the reverse, such that that you don't have to worry about them accidentally trying to self-actuate? I have mine oriented in the latter position and am wondering if I should flip them around. Thanks, Ken On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Hi John,**** > > ** ** > > McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348 . When you > get into the brake lining section on their website, you can find all sort s > of widths, thicknesses and friction ratings. My brakes are simply cable > actuated go-kart band brakes. As originally installed, they would not hol d > over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old lining and glued in the new > linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a normal run-up!! For large > wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellent!**** > > ** ** > > Best wishes on your covering=85**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Gary Boothe**** > > NX308MB**** > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Egan > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats**** > > ** ** > > Gary,**** > > **** > > Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake > lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during r un > up with this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if you > were to do it again?**** > > **** > > Thanks so much,**** > > **** > > John Egan**** > > Greenville, Wi**** > > Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up > here...**** > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe wrote : > **** > > Craig, > > My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were > barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block t o > serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake > linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first > taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables > around > the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! > > The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axl e > in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I ca me > up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before > that > axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! > > Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, > but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to > do > something else (or not). > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats > > > What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful > since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to > use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked > but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I wi ll > either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you > have any close up shots of your Axel assy. > > Craig > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 > > > **** > > ** ** > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:02 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Mine are the former, but there is no indication that they would ever draw up tight on their own. Dan Helsper put me wise to the hi-friction brake linings.that's what he did, too. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Gary, I also have installed cable operated band brakes (the ones sold by Aircraft Spruce). They don't seem to hold very well, though all the experiments have been using a two-man powered "motor." My question is the orientation of your band brakes. Do you have them positioned so that they are self-actuating when the airplane is trying to move forward? Or, the reverse, such that that you don't have to worry about them accidentally trying to self-actuate? I have mine oriented in the latter position and am wondering if I should flip them around. Thanks, Ken On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Hi John, McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348. When you get into the brake lining section on their website, you can find all sorts of widths, thicknesses and friction ratings. My brakes are simply cable actuated go-kart band brakes. As originally installed, they would not hold over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old lining and glued in the new linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a normal run-up!! For large wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellent! Best wishes on your covering. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Gary, Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during run up with this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if you were to do it again? Thanks so much, John Egan Greenville, Wi Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up here... On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Craig, My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block to serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables around the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axle in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I came up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before that axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to do something else (or not). Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I will either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you have any close up shots of your Axel assy. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:40 PM PST US From: V Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting talk to mark in fresno ca. He is your size and is upsizing a piet at this time. Put in the front door while you are at it. Ps I too am your size. Vic NX414MV From: m.rich2@verizon.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting Hello everyone=2C my name is Mike Rich from the Dallas Tx. area. A little a bout me. I have researched for the past two years many different aircraft t hat would be a good build starting with a Piet=2Cand ending with a Piet. I' ve been in model aviation for 25 years winning some scale contest and have been around full scale aviation since I was a boy with my father and brothe r. They kept nagging me=2C"When are you going to get your license and start flying for real" ? Well I finally did=2C but there's still something missi ng. I'm not building anything and it's driving me nuts!! So I joined the EA A=2CBPA ect. and was told this was the place to get advice if I want to bui ld a Pietenpol Air Camper. Everyone in the Piet community has been very nic e and down to earth...I love it. I feel I'm finally with the right group of aviators. I have thus far built a mockup from "Flying and Glider" to see how I would fit=2C bought all the Benglis books ect.So with that said=2C I need to order plans now. I'm 6'3" at 240 lbs. and I know I will need the lo ngest fuse/ supplemental plans but I'm not sure about the rest. Do I order the whole shabang or just parts of it? Please advise=2Cthanks. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: Ken Bickers Gary: Sounds good. I may do both: flip the orientation around and replace the linings. Thanks, Ken On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Mine are the former, but there is no indication that they would ever draw > up tight on their own. Dan Helsper put me wise to the hi-friction brake > linings=85that=92s what he did, too.**** > > ** ** > > Gary Boothe**** > > NX308MB**** > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Bickers > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:54 PM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats**** > > ** ** > > Gary, I also have installed cable operated band brakes (the ones sold by > Aircraft Spruce). They don't seem to hold very well, though all the > experiments have been using a two-man powered "motor." My question is th e > orientation of your band brakes. Do you have them positioned so that the y > are self-actuating when the airplane is trying to move forward? Or, the > reverse, such that that you don't have to worry about them accidentally > trying to self-actuate? I have mine oriented in the latter position and am > wondering if I should flip them around. Thanks, Ken **** > > ** ** > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: * > *** > > Hi John,**** > > **** > > McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348 . When you > get into the brake lining section on their website, you can find all sort s > of widths, thicknesses and friction ratings. My brakes are simply cable > actuated go-kart band brakes. As originally installed, they would not hol d > over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old lining and glued in the new > linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a normal run-up!! For large > wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellent!**** > > **** > > Best wishes on your covering=85**** > > **** > > **** > > Gary Boothe**** > > NX308MB**** > > **** > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Egan > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats**** > > **** > > Gary,**** > > **** > > Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake > lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during r un > up with this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if you > were to do it again?**** > > **** > > Thanks so much,**** > > **** > > John Egan**** > > Greenville, Wi**** > > Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up > here...**** > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe wrote : > **** > > Craig, > > My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were > barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block t o > serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake > linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first > taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables > around > the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! > > The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axl e > in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I ca me > up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before > that > axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! > > Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, > but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to > do > something else (or not). > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats > > > What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful > since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to > use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked > but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I wi ll > either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you > have any close up shots of your Axel assy. > > Craig > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 > > > **** > > **** > > * ***** > > * ***** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List***** > > *http://forums.matronics.com***** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution***** > > * ***** > > * * > > * * > > *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *tp://forums.matronics.com* > > *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > ** ** > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: Gary Boothe Just try one side and see which is better! ;-) Gary Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: > Gary: Sounds good. I may do both: flip the orientation around and replace the linings. Thanks, Ken > > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: >> Mine are the former, but there is no indication that they would ever draw up tight on their own. Dan Helsper put me wise to the hi-friction brake lin ingsthat=99s what he did, too. >> >> >> >> Gary Boothe >> >> NX308MB >> >> >> >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers >> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:54 PM >> >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats >> >> >> Gary, I also have installed cable operated band brakes (the ones sold by A ircraft Spruce). They don't seem to hold very well, though all the experime nts have been using a two-man powered "motor." My question is the orientati on of your band brakes. Do you have them positioned so that they are self-a ctuating when the airplane is trying to move forward? Or, the reverse, such that that you don't have to worry about them accidentally trying to self-ac tuate? I have mine oriented in the latter position and am wondering if I sh ould flip them around. Thanks, Ken >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: >> >> Hi John, >> >> >> >> McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348. When you get into the brake lining section on their website, you can find all sorts of widths, thicknesses and friction r atings. My brakes are simply cable actuated go-kart band brakes. As original ly installed, they would not hold over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old l ining and glued in the new linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a no rmal run-up!! For large wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellent! >> >> >> >> Best wishes on your covering >> >> >> >> >> >> Gary Boothe >> >> NX308MB >> >> >> >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan >> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats >> >> >> >> Gary, >> >> >> >> Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake lini ng material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during run up w ith this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if you were t o do it again? >> >> >> >> Thanks so much, >> >> >> >> John Egan >> >> Greenville, Wi >> >> Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up here ... >> >> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe wrote : >> >> Craig, >> >> My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were >> barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block t o >> serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake >> linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first >> taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables aro und >> the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! >> >> The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axl e >> in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I ca me >> up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before t hat >> axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! >> >> Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, >> but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to do >> something else (or not). >> >> Gary Boothe >> NX308MB >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho >> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats >> >> >> What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful >> since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need t o >> use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked >> but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I wi ll >> either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you >> have any close up shots of your Axel assy. >> >> Craig >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: Ken Bickers Good idea. I'll do it on the side opposite from the direction of my ground loops. :) On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Just try one side and see which is better! ;-) > > Gary > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 3, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: > > Gary: Sounds good. I may do both: flip the orientation around and replac e > the linings. Thanks, Ken > > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > >> Mine are the former, but there is no indication that they would ever dra w >> up tight on their own. Dan Helsper put me wise to the hi-friction brake >> linings=85that=92s what he did, too.**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Gary Boothe**** >> >> NX308MB**** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Bickers >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:54 PM >> >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Gary, I also have installed cable operated band brakes (the ones sold by >> Aircraft Spruce). They don't seem to hold very well, though all the >> experiments have been using a two-man powered "motor." My question is t he >> orientation of your band brakes. Do you have them positioned so that th ey >> are self-actuating when the airplane is trying to move forward? Or, the >> reverse, such that that you don't have to worry about them accidentally >> trying to self-actuate? I have mine oriented in the latter position and am >> wondering if I should flip them around. Thanks, Ken **** >> >> ** ** >> >> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Gary Boothe wrote : >> **** >> >> Hi John,**** >> >> **** >> >> McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348 . When you >> get into the brake lining section on their website, you can find all sor ts >> of widths, thicknesses and friction ratings. My brakes are simply cable >> actuated go-kart band brakes. As originally installed, they would not ho ld >> over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old lining and glued in the new >> linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a normal run-up!! For large >> wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellent!**** >> >> **** >> >> Best wishes on your covering=85**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> Gary Boothe**** >> >> NX308MB**** >> >> **** >> >> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Egan >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats**** >> >> **** >> >> Gary,**** >> >> **** >> >> Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake >> lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during run >> up with this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if yo u >> were to do it again?**** >> >> **** >> >> Thanks so much,**** >> >> **** >> >> John Egan**** >> >> Greenville, Wi**** >> >> Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up >> here...**** >> >> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe >> wrote:**** >> >> Craig, >> >> My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were >> barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block to >> serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake >> linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first >> taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables >> around >> the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! >> >> The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel ax le >> in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I >> came >> up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before >> that >> axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! >> >> Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant , >> but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance t o >> do >> something else (or not). >> >> Gary Boothe >> NX308MB >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho >> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats >> >> >> What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpfu l >> since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need >> to >> use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worke d >> but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I >> will >> either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you >> have any close up shots of your Axel assy. >> >> Craig >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> * ***** >> >> * ***** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List***** >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com***** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution***** >> >> * ***** >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* >> >> *tp://forums.matronics.com* >> >> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> >> * * >> >> ** ** >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> >> ** >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > ======================== > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ======================== ===========cs.com > ======================== ===========matronics.com/contribution > ======================== > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Virginia Pietenpols From: woodflier Jim, I'm just down the road from you in Lexington, VA. I'll probably fly my Piet up to Culpeper later in the spring to check on Gene Rambo's progress with his Piet. Hope to meet you and see your airplane. Matt Paxton NX629ML subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: satellite tracking devices From: "Fun2av8" Hello All - I'm a Newbie to the wonderful world of Pietenpols. I am in the process of purchasing N687MB out of Sarasota. We do the ferry flight on th e tail end of Sun-n-Fun back to Culpeper Virginia. I'm no stranger to tail draggers - been flying them for years for fun and in for even more fun at the Flying Circus in Bealeton Virginia (www.flyingcircusairshow.com) I owned a Maule for about 10 years. Gotta tell you - I am excited about my new Piet. I've since learned that there are several Piets in the local area and that I am hoping to hook up with them for the July run to Brodhead.... Jim McWhorter N687M (New Owner) Culpeper, VA KCJR ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:26 PM PST US From: "Mike Rich" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting Hey Vic, thanks for the advice. I'm suppose to be getting some info in from Bill Rewey as well, any day now on how to tweak the fuselage ect. I've seen your plane on W.C. Piet, outstanding job good routing work. I'm still new to all of this but wouldn't any mods like wider,longer,ect. just add more weight? I'm intrested in makeing some changes as long as I'm not adding a lot to the wing load. The Piet doesn't have a lot to play with. Or am I totally off base? I really like the door idea. Thanks, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: V Groah To: piet list Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 3:05 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting talk to mark in fresno ca. He is your size and is upsizing a piet at this time. Put in the front door while you are at it. Ps I too am your size. Vic NX414MV ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: m.rich2@verizon.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 14:58:55 -0500 Hello everyone, my name is Mike Rich from the Dallas Tx. area. A little about me. I have researched for the past two years many different aircraft that would be a good build starting with a Piet,and ending with a Piet. I've been in model aviation for 25 years winning some scale contest and have been around full scale aviation since I was a boy with my father and brother. They kept nagging me,"When are you going to get your license and start flying for real" ? Well I finally did, but there's still something missing. I'm not building anything and it's driving me nuts!! So I joined the EAA,BPA ect. and was told this was the place to get advice if I want to build a Pietenpol Air Camper. Everyone in the Piet community has been very nice and down to earth...I love it. I feel I'm finally with the right group of aviators. I have thus far built a mockup from "Flying and Glider" to see how I would fit, bought all the Benglis books ect.So with that said, I need to order plans now. I'm 6'3" at 240 lbs. and I know I will need the longest fuse/ supplemental plans but I'm not sure about the rest. Do I order the whole shabang or just parts of it? Please advise,thanks. st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting From: airlion2@gmail.com Hi mike ,I made my fuse 26 in wide I weigh 200 and I am glad that I did. I a lso put a door on the right side, it makes ingress a lot easier and to work o n the inside.. I have the long fuse and my weight is 825 with a corvair and w ith the 36 in center section I hold 20 gallons of fuel. Cheers, gardiner mas on . Sent from my iPad On Apr 3, 2013, at 6:07 PM, "Mike Rich" wrote: > Hey Vic, thanks for the advice. I'm suppose to be getting some info in fro m Bill Rewey as well, any day now on how to tweak the fuselage ect. I've see n your plane on W.C. Piet, outstanding job good routing work. I'm still new t o all of this but wouldn't any mods like wider,longer,ect. just add more wei ght? I'm intrested in makeing some changes as long as I'm not adding a lot t o the wing load. The Piet doesn't have a lot to play with. Or am I totally o ff base? > I really like the door idea. > > Thanks, > Mike > ----- Original Message ----- > From: V Groah > To: piet list > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 3:05 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting > > talk to mark in fresno ca. He is your size and is upsizing a piet at this time. Put in the front door while you are at it. Ps I too am your size. V ic NX414MV > > From: m.rich2@verizon.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Builder just starting > Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 14:58:55 -0500 > > Hello everyone, my name is Mike Rich from the Dallas Tx. area. A little ab out me. I have researched for the past two years many different aircraft tha t would be a good build starting with a Piet,and ending with a Piet. I've be en in model aviation for 25 years winning some scale contest and have been a round full scale aviation since I was a boy with my father and brother. They kept nagging me,"When are you going to get your license and start flying fo r real" ? Well I finally did, but there's still something missing. I'm not b uilding anything and it's driving me nuts!! So I joined the EAA,BPA ect. and was told this was the place to get advice if I want to build a Pietenpol Ai r Camper. Everyone in the Piet community has been very nice and down to eart h...I love it. I feel I'm finally with the right group of aviators. I have t hus far built a mockup from "Flying and Glider" to see how I would fit, boug ht all the Benglis books ect.So with that said, I need to order plans now. I 'm 6'3" at 240 lbs. and I know I will need the longest fuse/ supplemental pl ans but I'm not sure about the rest. Do I order the whole shabang or just pa rts of it? Please advise,thanks. > > > > st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:08 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's Thanks, the plane still looks good, but I don't look the same! Ray Sent from my iPad On Apr 3, 2013, at 11:08 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > It was taken 4 yrs ago! I=99ll bet your Waiex looks exactly the same , thoughand that=99s what really matters! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 10:59 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's > > Gary, > > I usually charge a royalty fee for the use of such "un-official" photos, b ut I will let it slip this time; since it makes me look younger than I real ly am! > > Ray > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:23 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > "Count me IN, even though I ain't got no head gear!" > > Ray's going to make us look bad in his Waiex... > > > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 10:42 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: West coast Pieter's > > --> > > Would this be restricted to Pietenpols only? Mine is not ready, but woul d consider going along in my Waiex or Aeronca. Aeronca is NORCO, except han d-held. > > Ray Krause! > > SkyScout in progress > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 2, 2013, at 8:20 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wr ote: > > > --> > > > > Pieter's > > > > How many of you would like to spend some time (one day or more) barnstor ming around central CA after the Hollister gathering? It would be a fun ti me for all. I am interested, anyone else??? > > > > -------- > > Scott Liefeld > > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > > Steel Tube > > C-85-12 > > Wire Wheels > > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397653#397653 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:04 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: West coast Pieter's Tim, I am in Oroville almost every Saturday to visit with Merle Reppert and have lunch. Would sure like to see your plane. Tom said he thought you were making one plane from some other planes, or something..... He did not know too much. I saw a Piet on Barnstormers for sale in Oroville, was that yours? Give me. Call, or come down to Merle's hangar on Saturday, sometime. Would love to meet you. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad On Apr 3, 2013, at 11:32 AM, "Tim70" wrote: > > West coast pieters, Guess its time to end being a lurker. Yes Ray I have a piet here in Oroville My name is Tim Wall and Gary and Chris I have met. I'm working to finish covering tail feathers and fuse on 'original' piet with corvair power. > John Watson built a piet in Chico in 2001 and he and his son keep it at chico muni I think. There is a fellow in Red Bluff and another in Quincy. both I've talked with. > I also have room for up to six "barnstormers" here at my home. I'll post pics soon. See you all at Frazier Lake! > Tim Wall > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397768#397768 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: helspersew@aol.com Here is a pic of my brakes with the lining material that Gary referenced. O bviously in this photo the brake band still needs to be assembled (dangling ). The photo was actually taken to illustrate the "bungee dams" I had welde d onto the axle, their purpose being to keep the bungees from getting pinch ed under the axle. This brake set-up holds like a demon. There is no tenden cy to "self actuate". Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Ken Bickers Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 7:49 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Good idea. I'll do it on the side opposite from the direction of my ground loops. :) On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Just try one side and see which is better! ;-) Gary Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: Gary: Sounds good. I may do both: flip the orientation around and replace the linings. Thanks, Ken On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Mine are the former, but there is no indication that they would ever draw u p tight on their own. Dan Helsper put me wise to the hi-friction brake lini ngsthat=99s what he did, too. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Gary, I also have installed cable operated band brakes (the ones sold by Ai rcraft Spruce). They don't seem to hold very well, though all the experime nts have been using a two-man powered "motor." My question is the orientat ion of your band brakes. Do you have them positioned so that they are self -actuating when the airplane is trying to move forward? Or, the reverse, s uch that that you don't have to worry about them accidentally trying to sel f-actuate? I have mine oriented in the latter position and am wondering if I should flip them around. Thanks, Ken On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Hi John, McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348. When you get into the brake lining section on t heir website, you can find all sorts of widths, thicknesses and friction ra tings. My brakes are simply cable actuated go-kart band brakes. As original ly installed, they would not hold over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old lining and glued in the new linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a normal run-up!! For large wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellen t! Best wishes on your covering Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats Gary, Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during run up wi th this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if you were t o do it again? Thanks so much, John Egan Greenville, Wi Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up here.. .. On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: Craig, My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block to serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the first taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables aroun d the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel axle in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I came up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before tha t axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegant, but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance to d o something else (or not). Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpful since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I need to use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method worked but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I will either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do you have any close up shots of your Axel assy. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========= cs.com ========= matronics.com/contribution ========= " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: Ken Bickers Dan, thanks. The picture helps. To be honest, I haven't known if the self-actuating thing is really an issue to be concerned about. But I've had a couple of "hangar rats" mention it to me when I mentioned whether I should flip the direction I have my brakes oriented to get more braking power. The reason I've continued to ponder it is that one of those people is someone with lots and lots of experience in the homebuilt world and someone whose opinion I respect. The other hangar rats ... well they have lots of opinions, which they feel obligated to share. I'm sure some of those opinions, just by random chance, are occasionally correct. Cheers, Ke n On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:29 PM, wrote: > Here is a pic of my brakes with the lining material that Gary referenced. > Obviously in this photo the brake band still needs to be assembled > (dangling). The photo was actually taken to illustrate the "bungee dams" I > had welded onto the axle, their purpose being to keep the bungees from > getting pinched under the axle. This brake set-up holds like a demon. The re > is no tendency to "self actuate". > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Bickers > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Wed, Apr 3, 2013 7:49 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats > > Good idea. I'll do it on the side opposite from the direction of my > ground loops. :) > > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > >> Just try one side and see which is better! ;-) >> >> Gary >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 3, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: >> >> Gary: Sounds good. I may do both: flip the orientation around and >> replace the linings. Thanks, Ken >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Gary Boothe wrote : >> >>> Mine are the former, but there is no indication that they would ever >>> draw up tight on their own. Dan Helsper put me wise to the hi-friction >>> brake linings=85that=92s what he did, too.**** >>> ** ** >>> Gary Boothe**** >>> NX308MB**** >>> ** ** >>> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >>> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Bickers >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:54 PM >>> >>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats**** >>> ** ** >>> Gary, I also have installed cable operated band brakes (the ones sold >>> by Aircraft Spruce). They don't seem to hold very well, though all the >>> experiments have been using a two-man powered "motor." My question is the >>> orientation of your band brakes. Do you have them positioned so that t hey >>> are self-actuating when the airplane is trying to move forward? Or, th e >>> reverse, such that that you don't have to worry about them accidentally >>> trying to self-actuate? I have mine oriented in the latter position an d am >>> wondering if I should flip them around. Thanks, Ken **** >>> ** ** >>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Gary Boothe >>> wrote:**** >>> Hi John,**** >>> **** >>> McMaster-Carr PN- 6224K348 . When >>> you get into the brake lining section on their website, you can find al l >>> sorts of widths, thicknesses and friction ratings. My brakes are simply >>> cable actuated go-kart band brakes. As originally installed, they would not >>> hold over about 800 rpm. I removed all the old lining and glued in the new >>> linings. I can now run up to 1800 rpm and do a normal run-up!! For larg e >>> wheels and heel brakes, I think that is excellent!**** >>> **** >>> Best wishes on your covering=85**** >>> **** >>> **** >>> Gary Boothe**** >>> NX308MB**** >>> **** >>> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >>> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Egan >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:21 PM >>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats**** >>> **** >>> Gary,**** >>> **** >>> Regarding your pony (band) brakes, would you share the type of brake >>> lining material you bought from McMaster-Carr? How do they hold during run >>> up with this lining, and would you use a different friction lining if y ou >>> were to do it again?**** >>> **** >>> Thanks so much,**** >>> **** >>> John Egan**** >>> Greenville, Wi**** >>> Thinking about covering some parts this summer - if it ever warms up >>> here...**** >>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Gary Boothe >>> wrote:**** >>> Craig, >>> >>> My axle did not start out this way. The first brake linings I had were >>> barely functional, and I had a steel tube running through the ash block >>> to >>> serve as a an anti-rotation device. Dan Helsper led me to better brake >>> linings through McMaster-Carr, and they worked so well that on the firs t >>> taxi test they ripped the tubes right out, wrapped up my brake cables >>> around >>> the axle, ripping them out of the heel brake connections! >>> >>> The hole thru my axle already existed, as that holds the actual wheel >>> axle >>> in place, and I did not want to remove the bungees at this time. So, I >>> came >>> up with the pictured bolt-on application. It's hell-for-strong!! Before >>> that >>> axle ever rotates again, the entire gear will be gone! >>> >>> Let me know if the you need any info about this set-up. It's not elegan t, >>> but it will suffice until the bungees need replacing and I have chance >>> to do >>> something else (or not). >>> >>> Gary Boothe >>> NX308MB >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAh o >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 9:25 AM >>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats >>> >>> >>> What a nice Pietenpol you have there and the photo of the Gear is helpf ul >>> since I am trying to reassemble my old gear fittings to new wood. I nee d >>> to >>> use a new method of preventing Axel rotation as my original method work ed >>> but not the best way in hind sight. My original Axel is also bent so I >>> will >>> either have to find some way to straighten or just buy new steel. Do yo u >>> have any close up shots of your Axel assy. >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397748#397748 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> **** >>> **** >>> >>> * ***** >>> >>> * ***** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List***** >>> >>> *http://forums.matronics.com***** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution***** >>> >>> * ***** >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* >>> >>> *tp://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * * >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://forums.matronics.com* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >>> >>> ** >>> >>> * * >>> >>> * >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> ========= >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ==========cs.com >> ==========matronics.com/contribution >> ========= >> * >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cables; control and brace From: "Mark Roberts" Ok guys: I knew I had read about using chain links for cable connections, and a search of the archives produced the answers I was looking for... Kinda. Kevin: was the chain clips you got from a Motorcycle shop? Not a regular bicycle shop, right? I think I want to use this method versus shackles. Dang shackles cost more than the engine! Well, kinda.... Jim: did the roller chain #50 links work well for you? I am gearing up to start connecting all the welded pieces I've been making :-) Mark kevinpurtee wrote: > For Jim - Yes to the locking clip. I don't remember the sizes - sorry. Had a friend bring several different sizes from a bike shop where he worked. If I were to do it again I think I'd just use two female halves and secure with appropriate hardware, like the pictures posted earlier in this thread. > > Kevin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397826#397826 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hangar rats From: "Mark Roberts" Is the pic still there? I'm reading in my iPad but don't see the pic. Maybe on a regular computer, but after reading this thread, I am considering the whole LG decision again... Was thinking of the steel gear but the wooden gear with better brakes sounds good to me. But would like to see the pic... :) helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > Here is a pic of my brakes with the lining material that Gary referenced. Obviously in this photo the brake band still needs to be assembled (dangling). The photo was actually taken to illustrate the "bungee dams" I had welded onto the axle, their purpose being to keep the bungees from getting pinched under the axle. This brake set-up holds like a demon. There is no tendency to "self actuate". > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > > > > > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397827#397827 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.