Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? (Jack Phillips)
2. 04:08 AM - Corky's update and Rib building (Timothy Willis)
3. 05:32 AM - Corky's rib building company (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 05:35 AM - elevator cable routing (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 06:10 AM - Re: Progress! (Gary Boothe)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (C N Campbell)
7. 06:21 AM - Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? (C N Campbell)
8. 06:59 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (kevinpurtee)
9. 07:06 AM - Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? (kevinpurtee)
10. 07:10 AM - Re: Corky's rib building company (Isablcorky@aol.com)
11. 07:38 AM - Re: Progress! (echobravo4)
12. 07:45 AM - Re: An Inquiry (Ralph)
13. 08:26 AM - Re: Stabilizer brackets.. (Ray Krause)
14. 08:52 AM - Re: Aileron Horn Question (crusty old aviator)
15. 08:58 AM - Re: Stabilizer brackets.. (Gary Boothe)
16. 09:40 AM - Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? (Mark Roberts)
17. 09:43 AM - Re: Progress! (Mark Roberts)
18. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? (Ken Bickers)
19. 10:46 AM - Re: An Inquiry (Isablcorky@aol.com)
20. 11:28 AM - Re: An Inquiry (Dick N)
21. 11:42 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Fun2av8)
22. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Gary Boothe)
23. 12:34 PM - Do I need to sheet this with plywood? (Mark Roberts)
24. 12:50 PM - Re: Stabilizer brackets.. (Ray Krause)
25. 12:56 PM - Re: Do I need to sheet this with plywood? (Gary Boothe)
26. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Jim Boyer)
27. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Jim Boyer)
28. 02:31 PM - Re: An Inquiry (Jim Boyer)
29. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Horn Question (Jim Boyer)
30. 03:01 PM - Re: Do I need to sheet this with plywood? (helspersew@aol.com)
31. 03:44 PM - Aluminum Bump (Gary Boothe)
32. 03:47 PM - Re: Do I need to sheet this with plywood? (Mark Roberts)
33. 04:11 PM - Re: Aluminum Bump (Jim Boyer)
34. 04:19 PM - Re: Do I need to sheet this with plywood? (Jack Phillips)
35. 05:30 PM - Straight Axel advise (CraigAho)
36. 05:31 PM - Re: Straight Axel advise (CraigAho)
37. 08:31 PM - Re: Corky's rib building company (kmercer)
38. 09:49 PM - Re: Aluminum Bump (Ray Krause)
39. 10:23 PM - Re: Aluminum Bump (Mark Roberts)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? |
I used pulleys. Sawing through the cross-member with a cable just didn't
seem like a good way to go.
You can see the elevator cable pulley in the foreground of the picture
below. You can also see the pulleys I used for the rudder cables as well as
the trim system:
There's a rule of thumb in the Bingelis books about any change in direction
of a cable more than X degrees should use a pulley, but my books are packed
away at the moment and I don't remember what the angle is. Look it up in
your Bingelis books.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 2:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ?
Thinking the same thing Gary... But I am trying to convince myself that I
don't need to spend 35 more bucks for a plane that will only cost me 8000 to
build... Doap!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398017#398017
Message 2
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| Subject: | Corky's update and Rib building |
Corky, I am sorry to hear of Isabelle's current condition but delighted
that you are still raring to go and wanting to build Pietenpols.
For the Piet community, I am also a positive reference. I bought Corky's
second Piet project. I have not finished the project, as my wife and I are
both battling health problems. Building will likely not continue unless
conditions materially change.
However I can attest to Corky's workmanship and especially to the quality
of his ribs. He used T-88, individualized gussets and little brass nails
to hold the gussets. Lots of detail there, and not a single glitch.
Moreover a buyer may well have opportunities to interact with Corky, a
treat in itself, as he is an experienced and colorful southern officer and
gentleman.
Regards to Corky and the board,
Tim Willis
Tim in central TX
Message 3
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| Subject: | Corky's rib building company |
Hey Corky,
I'll get you started!
I'll buy a set from you. Don't need them now, but I'd like to donate them
or keep 'em around to help someone out one day.
Tell me what you want to charge, and let's get going.
Douwe
douweblumberg@earthlink.net
805 573 3564
Message 4
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| Subject: | elevator cable routing |
Hey Mark,
Great progress!!
Technically, according to uncle Tony (Bingilis) the elevator cables deflect
enough to require a pulley there. I've never heard of a problem with the
original layout though; neither sawing through the wood or wear on the
cables, but.. That being said.. I put two small pulleys back there, and
would guess that most guys are doing that these days. Seems a simple and
beneficial mod, which I can see no reason not to do.
Douwe
Message 5
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Nice job on the welding, Mark!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Progress!
--> <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Well, dang.
Almost done with all the work my current money has left. (Daughter getting
married in 7 weeks, or 49 days but who's counting...). But, I have the main
control system in place and all the varnish painting supply's ready.
Thought I'd post a few pictures tonight. Rudder pedals, control tubes,
rudder bar, control stick assembly with removable front stick (so I can pack
an overnight tent/sleeping bag in front for fly-ins), and elevator pivot
tube/horn assembly in place. All I need to do now is cable up the stick and
see if there is any slack in my set up as some have reported. Anyway, very
excited to see progress.
If you have not yet started, or are just beginning, have hope! Even if it
takes 10 years, progress can be made slowly and steady. I have had to wait
for 6+ months to make any meaningful progress, but tonight I have seen
almost the completion of the steel parts of the front controls.
Welding was NOT as scary as I thought. Heck, I find I am loving it, and I
was very fearful of the process (as a search of previous posts would prove).
I am almost ready to plan the next plane as a steel Pober Jr. Ace, as I have
those plans already! Actually, I have found that I am pretty good at gas
welding. This is the real benefit of home building. New skills and
discoveries. Plus, I can't believe how relaxing the whole thing is.
My lovely and patient wife approves of the time I am building because she
knows that while I am out in the barn, I completely STOP thinking about the
stresses of life. It is, indeed, cheaper than therapy and when you are done,
you have something to fly!! And Spruse and steel doesn't ask stupid
questions about your childhood... :D
Here's some pictures of the set up...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398016#398016
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_659.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_221.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_753.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_210.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Jim, when you get to be 89 you can consider yourself an old fart! Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Krause
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Jim,
I bent in the same place and broke nine weeks ago, I'm mostly all
healed now and I am 71! So there's hope for us old farts.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:10 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
Yeah Kevin but you young farts can bend in places those of us more
mature cannot.
Jim
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? |
Mark, my fuse is not handy for a pic. I drilled two holes in the cross
piece and added two small pulleys on the back of the seat. I still get a
bit of dragging noise when I move the stick, but it seems to be free enough.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 11:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys or "through the seat" ?
> <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>
> Seeings as how we all want to make Mr. Pietenpol's airplane just "that
> much better" than he designed it, I am wondering how many of you have
> opted for running the 1/8" elevator cables through the seat bottom cross
> brace as shown on the plans, or used pulleys as I have felt inclined to
> do. I see a few pics from the guys that have used pulleys, but don't
> remember seeing any where they drilled holes as shown on the plans through
> the rear seat bottom cross member.
>
> As I am at the point of needing to run the cable, I am trying to decide if
> I am going to have to wait until I can afford to buy more stuff from ACS,
> or if the wood guide is "good 'nuf". I need to get the nico press stuff
> and all that too...
>
> What are your recommendations?
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398007#398007
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
I understand your point, Jim. You built yours with a door. This gentleman is
talking about retrofitting an existing fuselage. He's going to have to enjoy
flying light passengers unless he wants to essentially build a new fuselage.
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
Rebuilding NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398036#398036
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? |
Mark - I did it per the plans originally. On the rebuild I'll add pulleys because
it seems like the right thing to do. Having said that, the per-the-plans
treatment was a non-issue. I added guides that kept the cable from sawing through
the structure. The cables wore the guides to a certain point and then apparently
reached equilibrium - no more wear and never an impact on the structure.
The cables held up fine as well.
The pulleys are like the piano hinge aileron hinges. It darn sure looks like a
better design, even though the per-the-plans design worked fine. (I noticed
when I bought strap hinges this time that the quality of the hinges were significantly
less then what I bought 15 years ago. I bought the piano hinges and
will go that route.)
--------
Kevin "Axel" Purtee
Rebuilding NX899KP
Austin/San Marcos, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398038#398038
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Corky's rib building company |
In a message dated 4/7/2013 7:32:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
douweblumberg@earthlink.net writes:
Hey Corky,
I=99ll get you started!
I=99ll buy a set from you. Don=99t need them now, but I
=99d like to donate
them or keep =98em around to help someone out one day.
Tell me what you want to charge, and let=99s get going.
Douwe
_douweblumberg@earthlink.net_ (mailto:douweblumberg@earthlink.net)
805 573 3564
I was hoping to get a few encouraging responses but it is over the top.
Even naming my business. Smells like Washington, D C. Hope they don't send
the
tax collector before I drive the first nail.
Message 11
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That's very nice work Mark-
On the wood and the metal
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398042#398042
Message 12
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I also bought a set of ribs from Charlie Rubeck in the late 1980s. I
did it to =9Cblackmail=9D myself into starting on the
project. I figured if I had the $200 (at that time) tied up in ribs I
would continue on with the project. I stopped in Minneapolis at a boat
builders lumber yard and bought spruce for the rest of the airplane on
the way home to South Dakota. It worked although I haven=99t
finished the plane the wood construction in done. Charlie included a
note indicating he used western cedar (he told me he bought barn siding
to rip into pieces), AirAlite glue, 1410 pieces of wood and plywood (I
believed him, I didn=99t count them) and 3000 staples (which he
removed). The extra rib is a fine wall hanging and I used it for the
pattern for the nose and tail ribs of the center section. I figured he
saved me most of a winters work. I felt confident they were done right.
I enjoyed many helpful conversations with Charlie in the following
years.
Spring has finally arrived in SD. The snow is gone. I pulled the skis
off of the Chief. I hope to get back to my unheated garage and continue
my Piet soon.
Ralph Hurlbert
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Stabilizer brackets.. |
Did you include any plywood in the laminations? I just laid up the cabanes w
ith a center layer of mahogany, two layers of 1/8" plywood then a layer if V
G Doug Fir on the outside. Final Outside measurements are 11/8" by 2". Of c
ourse, that will be worked down in shaping.
What grain orientation do you look for with hickory, any? What about main s
truts?
Thanks,
Ray
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 6, 2013, at 10:32 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hickory. 3 laminations, 1=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D thick x 2 =C3=82=C2=BC=C3=A2
=82=AC=C2=9D.
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 8:45 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer brackets..
>
> Thanks, Jim. I remember they were pretty thin (fore and aft) and looked r
eally neat. I am copying Gary's (?) and trying to make them out of wood. I m
ade one set and did not like them, started a new set today. Sure takes a lot
of stickum to laminate them!
>
> Gary, hat wood did you use?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Krause
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> My cabane struts are steel streamline from AS&S; I am going to use the alu
minium wing struts from Carlson Aircraft. I belied Dan Helsper used them on h
is Piet. He had some really nice photos of how to connect them at each end; t
hey are on Chris Tracy's West Coast Piet site.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
What material are you making your control horns of: 22 gage Cold Rolled Steel (standard
sheet metal), or .025 or .032 4130 chromoly? Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398051#398051
Message 15
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| Subject: | Stabilizer brackets.. |
Ray,
No plywood laminations on mine. I seriously doubt if plywood adds any
strength.maybe some character.
The attached picture is of my current lift struts. You can see the
orientation. Also, a strength chart, that shows tensile strength, which
is really what you need. Following is my favorite excerpt from an email
I got from the very wise Clif Dawson, nearly 4 years ago:
"Spruce has a tensile strength of 6700 lb/square inch.
For the sake of argument let=99s say a strut is 1" X 3 1/2". With
streamlining the area should be 2/3 of the square area, or 2.3 square
inch. There are four struts or 5.2 square inches. That=99s 34840
lbs( yes I know the front ones take the majority of the load) .Dividing
on the assumption of equal load on a 1200 lb AC we get 29 g! How much
less if properly calculated? 25 g? 20 g? Is this adequate?
There's a bolt at each end. The strength here is based on how much force
required to pull a plug of wood out by the bolt. That plug has two
faces, the square area of which is the width of the strut times the
distance from the end to the bolt. If the strut is 1" thick and the bolt
is 1" from the end then you have two faces each 1" square or two square
inches. The "shear parallel to the grain" is 1120 lb per square inch. So
we have a strength here of 2240 lb. Four struts so that=99s a
total of 8960 lb. That's still over 7 g. If we added another such bolt
we have 14 g capacity. Taking into account the higher front strut stress
I'd bet we still have at least 10 g to play with.
And this is for plain, solid spruce, no plywood, no laminated straps or
embedded tubing or anything else to complicate matters.
You can add a little more strength by using Western Hemlock or Doug Fir
but not much. "
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer brackets..
Did you include any plywood in the laminations? I just laid up the
cabanes with a center layer of mahogany, two layers of 1/8" plywood then
a layer if VG Doug Fir on the outside. Final Outside measurements are
11/8" by 2". Of course, that will be worked down in shaping.
What grain orientation do you look for with hickory, any? What about
main struts?
Thanks,
Ray
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 6, 2013, at 10:32 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Hickory. 3 laminations, 1=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D thick x 2
=C3=82=C2=BC=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer brackets..
Thanks, Jim. I remember they were pretty thin (fore and aft) and looked
really neat. I am copying Gary's (?) and trying to make them out of
wood. I made one set and did not like them, started a new set today.
Sure takes a lot of stickum to laminate them!
Gary, hat wood did you use?
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Ray,
My cabane struts are steel streamline from AS&S; I am going to use the
aluminium wing struts from Carlson Aircraft. I belied Dan Helsper used
them on his Piet. He had some really nice photos of how to connect them
at each end; they are on Chris Tracy's West Coast Piet site.
Cheers,
Jim
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=========
cs.com
=========
matronics.com/contribution
=========
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? |
Thanks guys!
Yep, sometimes it's good to trust your gut, and mine was saying "pulleys", but
I was hoping to be able to keep working without having to wait to order them.
But, I'll be flying this for years and pulleys will be better.
Jack, I'd like to see more of your elevator trim set up. I haven't yet figured
out how to do mine, and your crank assembly in the picture looks good. Do you
have other pics handy without too much digging around? I hope the construction
of your place in VA is going nicely!
And Kevin: thanks for the heads up on the aileron hinges. I am planning to use
the piano hinges too.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398054#398054
Message 17
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Thanks guys! The welding is much easier and more fun than I had imagined!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398056#398056
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Pulleys or "through the seat" ? |
Mark, I compromised on this. I followed the plans for the low deflection
cable that runs to the bottom of the elevator control horn, but installed a
pulley for the high deflection cable that runs to the top of the elevator
control horn. It hasn't flown yet, but seems to operate freely when I test
it in my hangar. Cheers, Ken
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
> mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> Yep, sometimes it's good to trust your gut, and mine was saying "pulleys",
> but I was hoping to be able to keep working without having to wait to order
> them.
>
> But, I'll be flying this for years and pulleys will be better.
>
> Jack, I'd like to see more of your elevator trim set up. I haven't yet
> figured out how to do mine, and your crank assembly in the picture looks
> good. Do you have other pics handy without too much digging around? I hope
> the construction of your place in VA is going nicely!
>
> And Kevin: thanks for the heads up on the aileron hinges. I am planning to
> use the piano hinges too.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398054#398054
>
>
Message 19
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In a message dated 4/7/2013 9:45:41 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
ralphhsd@itctel.com writes:
I also bought a set of ribs from Charlie Rubeck in the late 1980s. I did
it to =9Cblackmail=9D myself into starting on the project. I f
igured if I had
the $200 (at that time) tied up in ribs I would continue on with the
project. I stopped in Minneapolis at a boat builders lumber yard and boug
ht
spruce for the rest of the airplane on the way home to South Dakota. It
worked although I haven=99t finished the plane the wood construction
in done.
Charlie included a note indicating he used western cedar (he told me he bo
ught
barn siding to rip into pieces), AirAlite glue, 1410 pieces of wood and
plywood (I believed him, I didn=99t count them) and 3000 staples (w
hich he
removed). The extra rib is a fine wall hanging and I used it for the patt
ern
for the nose and tail ribs of the center section. I figured he saved me
most of a winters work. I felt confident they were done right. I enjoyed
many helpful conversations with Charlie in the following years.
Spring has finally arrived in SD. The snow is gone. I pulled the skis
off of the Chief. I hope to get back to my unheated garage and continue m
y
Piet soon.
Ralph Hurlbert
I didn't know Mr Roebuck. Hope the spring weather will encourage you to
get busy toward a finished Piet. It was such a milestone in my life even at
that advanced age. I've often compared the building techniques, skills, an
d
applied
allied arts necessary in building an aircraft to an advanced degree or
higher. Keep in touch if I can help.
Corky
Message 20
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Hi Ralph
Where in MPLS is the boat builders lumber yard? I havent seen it.
Dick N.
St. Paul, MN.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: An Inquiry
I also bought a set of ribs from Charlie Rubeck in the late 1980s. I
did it to =9Cblackmail=9D myself into starting on the
project. I figured if I had the $200 (at that time) tied up in ribs I
would continue on with the project. I stopped in Minneapolis at a boat
builders lumber yard and bought spruce for the rest of the airplane on
the way home to South Dakota. It worked although I haven=99t
finished the plane the wood construction in done. Charlie included a
note indicating he used western cedar (he told me he bought barn siding
to rip into pieces), AirAlite glue, 1410 pieces of wood and plywood (I
believed him, I didn=99t count them) and 3000 staples (which he
removed). The extra rib is a fine wall hanging and I used it for the
pattern for the nose and tail ribs of the center section. I figured he
saved me most of a winters work. I felt confident they were done right.
I enjoyed many helpful conversations with Charlie in the following
years.
Spring has finally arrived in SD. The snow is gone. I pulled the
skis off of the Chief. I hope to get back to my unheated garage and
continue my Piet soon.
Ralph Hurlbert
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Wow, great responses on the door idea .... going with the general consensus ....
if ain't broke .... don't fix it.
I mentioned to someone yesterday that I was buying a Piet and about the door idea.
He said that some Piet's were made with a hatch in the leading edge to enable
people to get in easier. I've never seen a pic of such a hatch. Is there
any truth to his tale?
--------
Jim McWhorter
N687MB (New Owner)
Culpeper, VA KCJR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398073#398073
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Cruel and vicious rumors!!
Hatch can be in the trailing edge, but only helps the pilot.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fun2av8
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 11:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Wow, great responses on the door idea .... going with the general consensus
.... if ain't broke .... don't fix it.
I mentioned to someone yesterday that I was buying a Piet and about the door
idea. He said that some Piet's were made with a hatch in the leading edge
to enable people to get in easier. I've never seen a pic of such a hatch.
Is there any truth to his tale?
--------
Jim McWhorter
N687MB (New Owner)
Culpeper, VA KCJR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398073#398073
Message 23
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| Subject: | Do I need to sheet this with plywood? |
Hey Guys:
Do I need to sheet this with plywood? I used balsa blocks to fill the space between
the top.deck stringers as bracing. It goes back about 4" back from the
face of the front of the top former/sear back. I was planning to cover this with
1/8 ply, but after looking at the final product, I am thinking it is plenty
strong, but I am not sure how much abuse this part gets when sitting on it/ getting
in and out/ etc.
Will the final covering be enough if I cover the top with some leather like Mike
Cuy? Just looking for some "been there, done that" advice.
I do plan to "dimple" or feather the edges to prevent the covering from having
a hard edge regardless...
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398076#398076
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/13653632089300_134.jpg
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Stabilizer brackets.. |
Gary,
Thanks so much! That really helps a lot. I printed this out as a permanent
reference. Beautiful work!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:57 AM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Ray,
>
> No plywood laminations on mine. I seriously doubt if plywood adds any stre
ngth.maybe some character.
>
> The attached picture is of my current lift struts. You can see the orienta
tion. Also, a strength chart, that shows tensile strength, which is really w
hat you need. Following is my favorite excerpt from an email I got from the v
ery wise Clif Dawson, nearly 4 years ago:
>
> "Spruce has a tensile strength of 6700 lb/square inch.
> For the sake of argument let=99s say a strut is 1" X 3 1/2". With
> streamlining the area should be 2/3 of the square area, or 2.3 square inch
. There are four struts or 5.2 square inches. That=99s 34840 lbs( yes I
know the front ones take the majority of the load) .Dividing on the assumpt
ion of equal load on a 1200 lb AC we get 29 g! How much less if properly cal
culated? 25 g? 20 g? Is this adequate?
>
> There's a bolt at each end. The strength here is based on how much force r
equired to pull a plug of wood out by the bolt. That plug has two faces, the
square area of which is the width of the strut times the distance from the e
nd to the bolt. If the strut is 1" thick and the bolt is 1" from the end the
n you have two faces each 1" square or two square inches. The "shear paralle
l to the grain" is 1120 lb per square inch. So we have a strength here of 22
40 lb. Four struts so that=99s a total of 8960 lb. That's still over 7
g. If we added another such bolt we have 14 g capacity. Taking into account
the higher front strut stress I'd bet we still have at least 10 g to play w
ith.
>
> And this is for plain, solid spruce, no plywood, no laminated straps or em
bedded tubing or anything else to complicate matters.
>
> You can add a little more strength by using Western Hemlock or Doug Fir bu
t not much. "
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 8:26 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer brackets..
>
> Did you include any plywood in the laminations? I just laid up the cabanes
with a center layer of mahogany, two layers of 1/8" plywood then a layer if
VG Doug Fir on the outside. Final Outside measurements are 11/8" by 2". Of
course, that will be worked down in shaping.
>
> What grain orientation do you look for with hickory, any? What about main
struts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 6, 2013, at 10:32 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hickory. 3 laminations, 1=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D thick x 2 =C3=82=C2=BC=C3=A2
=82=AC=C2=9D.
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 8:45 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stabilizer brackets..
>
> Thanks, Jim. I remember they were pretty thin (fore and aft) and looked r
eally neat. I am copying Gary's (?) and trying to make them out of wood. I m
ade one set and did not like them, started a new set today. Sure takes a lot
of stickum to laminate them!
>
> Gary, hat wood did you use?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Krause
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:04 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> My cabane struts are steel streamline from AS&S; I am going to use the alu
minium wing struts from Carlson Aircraft. I belied Dan Helsper used them on h
is Piet. He had some really nice photos of how to connect them at each end; t
hey are on Chris Tracy's West Coast Piet site.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> =========================
=========
> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> =========================
=========
> cs.com
> =========================
=========
> matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
=========
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> <Lift Struts with Fittings, 2.JPG>
> <WOOD STRENGTH.jpg>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Do I need to sheet this with plywood? |
I recommend plywood, either 1/8" or 1/16"...just ties it all together.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 12:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do I need to sheet this with plywood?
--> <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Hey Guys:
Do I need to sheet this with plywood? I used balsa blocks to fill the space
between the top.deck stringers as bracing. It goes back about 4" back from
the face of the front of the top former/sear back. I was planning to cover
this with 1/8 ply, but after looking at the final product, I am thinking it
is plenty strong, but I am not sure how much abuse this part gets when
sitting on it/ getting in and out/ etc.
Will the final covering be enough if I cover the top with some leather like
Mike Cuy? Just looking for some "been there, done that" advice.
I do plan to "dimple" or feather the edges to prevent the covering from
having a hard edge regardless...
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398076#398076
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/13653632089300_134.jpg
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Okay Chuck, I'm only 75 now so still feel like I'm young; except trying to get
in the front cockpit!
Cheers,
Jim
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
HI Kevin,
Actually I had my fuselage all built when Arlene and I got married. Arlene
is the bionic women with 3 back surgeries so I wanted to be able to take he
r flying with me. I added a door after the fuselage was done; took at littl
e work but ot her than having to rebuild the rear seat framing wasn't reall
y that hard. Hope to have my Piet done for next years Brodhead to show you.
Glad to see all the good progress you are making Kevin.
Cheers,
Jim
=C2-
Message 28
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NIce update Ralph; hope to see you this summer in Brodhead and possibly in Raymond.
Cheers,
Jim
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Horn Question |
.032 4130 but plain old mild steel would be fine. They turn out very light and
very strong.
Jim
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Do I need to sheet this with plywood? |
Use plywood. 1/16 is fine. Ties it all together (where did I hear this?)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Apr 7, 2013 2:57 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Do I need to sheet this with plywood?
I recommend plywood, either 1/8" or 1/16"...just ties it all together.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Robert
s
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 12:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do I need to sheet this with plywood?
--> <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Hey Guys:
Do I need to sheet this with plywood? I used balsa blocks to fill the space
between the top.deck stringers as bracing. It goes back about 4" back from
the face of the front of the top former/sear back. I was planning to cove
r
this with 1/8 ply, but after looking at the final product, I am thinking it
is plenty strong, but I am not sure how much abuse this part gets when
sitting on it/ getting in and out/ etc.
Will the final covering be enough if I cover the top with some leather like
Mike Cuy? Just looking for some "been there, done that" advice.
I do plan to "dimple" or feather the edges to prevent the covering from
having a hard edge regardless...
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398076#398076
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/13653632089300_134.jpg
Message 31
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I awoke in a cold sweat last night, suddenly realizing that Dan Helsper was
going to learn that my Piet came out of the factory with a fiberglass
bump.he would then produce a document from the Secret Files, questioning the
authenticity of my plane. This bump is necessary to hide a portion of my
Corvair (A la Last Original) starter (see top of cowling). All I had on hand
was some 6061 and some homemade tools.and about 3 hours.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Do I need to sheet this with plywood? |
Okie Doakie... I will make a ply skirt for it. Thanks for the advice!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398097#398097
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Bump |
Maybe like Kim K. its pregnant and that is its baby bump?
Message 34
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| Subject: | Do I need to sheet this with plywood? |
The balsa blocking is probably strong enough, although it might dent easily.
I covered this area with 1/16" birch plywood, per the picture below:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 3:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Do I need to sheet this with plywood?
Hey Guys:
Do I need to sheet this with plywood? I used balsa blocks to fill the space
between the top.deck stringers as bracing. It goes back about 4" back from
the face of the front of the top former/sear back. I was planning to cover
this with 1/8 ply, but after looking at the final product, I am thinking it
is plenty strong, but I am not sure how much abuse this part gets when
sitting on it/ getting in and out/ etc.
Will the final covering be enough if I cover the top with some leather like
Mike Cuy? Just looking for some "been there, done that" advice.
I do plan to "dimple" or feather the edges to prevent the covering from
having a hard edge regardless...
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398076#398076
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/13653632089300_134.jpg
Message 35
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| Subject: | Straight Axel advise |
I was hoping that those who have built the anti rotation system ala Mike Cuy could
advise on the Vertical tube dia. and wall thickness and also the dia. of the
receiver tube and is it a close tolerance. Also the length of the tubes. I
would like to purchase a new tolerance and related tubing's for my new gear.
Thanks Guys for any advise. I am attaching a photo of my old gear just because
I have it avail on my computer.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398106#398106
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Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Straight Axel advise |
That is Iplan to purchase a new AXEL and related tubing. [Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398108#398108
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| Subject: | Re: Corky's rib building company |
Corky,
If you're looking for more business, I'm in for a set of ribs (after Douwe's, of
course!)!
Ken Mercer
San Rafael, CA (but a native Texan)
--------
Ken Mercer
San Rafael, CA (KDVO)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398112#398112
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Bump |
If it's pregnant, I want its first offspring!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
> Maybe like Kim K. its pregnant and that is its baby bump?
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Bump |
That's cool Gary! You gotta tell me how it's done, or is this in one of Uncle Tony's
books too! I've got the whole set, but haven't cracked the engine ones yet...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398115#398115
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