Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: Re: Wing incidence.. (Michael Perez)
2. 05:18 AM - Finish a wing (giacummo)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: Wing incidence.. (Bill Church)
4. 05:38 AM - Re: Re: An Inquiry (airlion2@gmail.com)
5. 05:43 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (womenfly2)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (tools)
7. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: An Inquiry (Isablcorky@aol.com)
8. 07:00 AM - Re: Re: Wood on the Way (Isablcorky@aol.com)
9. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: straight axle landing gear (Craig Aho)
10. 07:55 AM - Re: Finish a wing (Craig Aho)
11. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Wing incidence.. (Ray Krause)
12. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Wing incidence.. (Michael Perez)
13. 09:25 AM - Re: Wing incidence.. (Bill Church)
14. 09:51 AM - Could be Aircraft Related... (Michael Perez)
15. 09:52 AM - Re: Wing incidence.. (tools)
16. 09:59 AM - Re: Wing incidence.. (jarheadpilot82)
17. 10:58 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Bill Church)
18. 11:37 AM - Re: 2013 Brodhead Pietenpol Fly-In (echobravo4)
19. 12:28 PM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (tools)
20. 12:34 PM - 3 days to rebuild--very impressive (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
21. 12:36 PM - Re: Wing incidence.. (tools)
22. 01:38 PM - "Re-PIET" tire change (Douwe Blumberg)
23. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Wing incidence.. (Ray Krause)
24. 02:11 PM - Re: "Re-PIET" tire change (TOM STINEMETZE)
25. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: Wing incidence.. (Ray Krause)
26. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Wing incidence.. (Ray Krause)
27. 02:33 PM - Re: "Re-PIET" tire change (Ray Krause)
28. 02:35 PM - Re: "Re-PIET" tire change (Ray Krause)
29. 05:13 PM - Re: Finish a wing (Jack)
30. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Jack)
31. 05:27 PM - Re: "Re-PIET" tire change (Jack)
32. 06:51 PM - Pietenpol magazine article (Bill Church)
33. 06:51 PM - Re: "Re-PIET" tire change (tools)
34. 06:58 PM - Re: Pietenpol magazine article (Charles Burkholder)
35. 07:48 PM - Re: 3 days to rebuild--very impressive (tools)
36. 10:07 PM - Re: Could be Aircraft Related... (jarheadpilot82)
37. 10:13 PM - Re: 3 days to rebuild--very impressive (jarheadpilot82)
38. 10:17 PM - Re: Could be Aircraft Related... (tools)
39. 10:26 PM - Re: 3 days to rebuild--very impressive (tools)
40. 11:13 PM - Re: Re: straight axle landing gear (Clif Dawson)
41. 11:16 PM - Re: Re: Could be Aircraft Related... (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Ray, as well as other new builders:
If you are building an Air Camper and using a Riblett airfoil, the cabane length
changes yet again. As per advice that I received, my cabane lengths for the
Riblett 612 type airfoil are equal.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 2
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Hello,
I have finish my first wing. I paint it with latex, it have by the moment 4 ( 1
Gal) hands of paint, I plan 2 or 3 more but in yellow. Inspections rings, cables,
evrything in it place.
Some photos here http://goo.gl/zAl1L
do not archive
--------
Mario Giacummo
Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398230#398230
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05170_161.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05169_148.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Ray,
I think most builders are just following the plans. And for the Air Camper, that
means the front cabanes are 1" longer than the back. But if the Sky Scout
plans show equal length front and back, it would seem logical to make the cabanes
for the Sky Scout equal in length.
When all else fails, read the instructions.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398231#398231
Message 4
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Would you be making the 612 also? I am asking for someone else. Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Isablcorky@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 4/8/2013 7:25:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jarheadpil
ot82@hotmail.com writes:
mail.com>
>
> Corky,
>
> I kinda' like the name "Corky's Rib Shack" for the title of your business.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398179#398179
>
>
> In all my years I've probably been called everything so these new business
names are welcome.
> No I'm no Semper Fi but I do go back to OCS, Ft Benning 1943
> Keep those names coming, Also, if any might have an idea on the best way t
o box a set of ribs for shipment lets have it.
> Corky
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Hi Jim,
The passenger door can be add to a built up side frame with little work. If you
are adding it to an already finished side frame with plywood covering, its a
little more work, but doable.
Many Pietenpol builders have add the side door for ease of loading passengers.
It adds very little weight to the basic Piet but really helps in getting in and
out of the front cockpit.
If you have any question on adding the passenger door, please Email me directly.
I will do my best to answer them. Link below.
Blue skies,
Keri-Ann
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398234#398234
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
During a landing accident, I broke BOTH the bottom longerons on my wood fuse Piet.
The repair itself, building new landing gear legs (wood gear), scarfing in
new longerons, replacing the belly skin, one crossmember and the recovering
really only took 3 days.
However, getting the fuselage to where I could get everywhere I needed, took some
time.
Soooo, if you can do it without removing tailfeathers (I needed to so I could get
it in the shop), engine, firewall everything, and everything else that was
detachable, it really shouldn't be THAT difficult.
You're going to have to be pretty good at woodworking in that you'll likely have
to essentially carve some things out, make pieces to fit places that aren't
easily gotten to, possibly make some scarf joints inplace (not sure about this
one... but if so, requires some confidence with hand tools), do some fairly varsity
clamping frequently requiring a lot of jigging and stuff like that.
If there's tools you need, they'll likely be hand tools and really aren't that
expensive (certain sorts of eastern hand saws for example, that run in the $20
range, additional clamps - inexpensive, etc). So if that's up your alley, I'd
pretty seriously consider it. There's ALWAYS a weight penalty, but fortunately
it's on the CG, so it isn't as serious as other weight penalties like those
aft of the CG.
Obviously it's been done before, but I can't recall it being documented well, so
it would definitely be an asset for here and certainly in the BPA newsletter.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398237#398237
Message 7
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In a message dated 4/9/2013 7:38:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
airlion2@gmail.com writes:
Would you be making the 612 also? I am asking for someone else. Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 8, 2013, at 9:57 PM, _Isablcorky@aol.com_
(mailto:Isablcorky@aol.com) wrote:
In a message dated 4/8/2013 7:25:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
_jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com_ (mailto:jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com) writes:
<_jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com_ (mailto:jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com) >
Corky,
I kinda' like the name "Corky's Rib Shack" for the title of your business.
Just a thought.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398179#398179
In all my years I've probably been called everything so these new business
names are welcome.
No I'm no Semper Fi but I do go back to OCS, Ft Benning 1943
Keep those names coming, Also, if any might have an idea on the best way
to box a set of ribs for shipment lets have it.
Corky
D=========
(mip://014ab450/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List")
D=========
(mip://014ab450/3D"http://forums.matronics.com")
D=========
(mip://014ab450/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution")
D=========
Could
Corky
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wood on the Way |
In a message dated 4/9/2013 7:34:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Corky: I believe I still have all the tiny nails that you gave me when you
were cleaning house. You want 'em back-? Not sure I can find them in the
hangar, but given a couple of hours and a sunshiny Saturday, I'll bet I
could!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398218#398218
I've ordered quarter lb to start with.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: straight axle landing gear |
Thank you Clif I appreciate the info as I have been very interested in the
types of brakes and ways other have delt with the rotation issue. On my fir
st Piet NX40772 I used a rather crude method although as I think about it
I suppose it fit the era of the design and it did work. I am a simple perso
n so I am facinated at the enginuity and craftsmanship of others. Am I cor
rect that you live up in Beautiful BC? Greetings from a fellow N. Westerner
Craig
> From: cdawson5854@shaw.ca
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: straight axle landing gear
> Date: Mon=2C 8 Apr 2013 23:39:56 -0700
>
> The entire brake assembly is free floating on the
> axle. The axle does whatever it would do if
> there weren't any brakes at all. I went through
> a few trees worth of paper to come up with the
> position and angles that would minimize the
> rotational movement of the brake assembly as
> the axle goes up and down over bumps.
>
> I don't expect to be using the brakes moving
> over anything that bumpy anyway and I certainly
> don't plan on hitting the brakes on touchdown! :-)
> And not when moving at more than a snails pace
> either. Mostly for runup and pivot turning. Just
> like the Chief I presently fly. On the grass at my
> strip=2C idle the engine and it stops pretty quick on
> it's own.
>
> This pic illustrates the main parts. The disc=2C of
> course=2C bolts to the wheel hub.There is a large
> bearing sheet between that and the plate on the
> right shown by a thick dark line. The only things
> attached to the axle are the end cap and split
> collar. They hold everything in place and
> alignment. Clear as mud ??? :-)
>
> Clif
> Nothing worse could happen to one than
> to be completely understood.
> C.G.Jung
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Am trying to visualize how this works=2C so the white metal arm is free
to
> > pivot up and back down with the axel and still prevents rotation under
> > braking? I assume we only need 2-3 inches of travel for the axel?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398165#398165
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
Message 10
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I have read quite a bit on the latex paint process folks are using and just
wanted to mention that I used flat black latex as an undercoat and Rodda P
olyurethane floor paint as the top coat applied with small foam rollers and
the results where impressive. Craig
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finish a wing
> From: mario.giacummo@gmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 9 Apr 2013 05:18:31 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
m>
>
> Hello=2C
>
> I have finish my first wing. I paint it with latex=2C it have by the mome
nt 4 ( 1 Gal) hands of paint=2C I plan 2 or 3 more but in yellow. Inspectio
ns rings=2C cables=2C evrything in it place.
>
> Some photos here http://goo.gl/zAl1L
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Mario Giacummo
> Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
> Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398230#398230
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05170_161.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05169_148.jpg
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
OK!
I will follow the plans, as I have done on everything else. My memory seemed to
tell me that there had been some discussion here about more incidence was required
for better flying qualities. That is why I asked the group. But if the
general opinion is that the plans are the best way to go, that is what I will
do. I actually feel a lot more comfortable doing that!
So thanks to all for the speedy responses. I will cut to length today and then
make the hardware.
Has anyone tried ordering chromoly metal from Onlinemetals.com in Seattle? They
seem easy to work with and have pretty good prices. For me it is only a 2-3day
ground UPS shipping. They will do custom cutting into strips for a very low
fee. Sure saves a lot of time.
Thanks to all,
Ray Krause,
SkyScout
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2013, at 5:32 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Ray,
> I think most builders are just following the plans. And for the Air Camper,
that means the front cabanes are 1" longer than the back. But if the Sky Scout
plans show equal length front and back, it would seem logical to make the cabanes
for the Sky Scout equal in length.
> When all else fails, read the instructions.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398231#398231
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Ray, I have bought most of my metal from Online Metals. Very good source to use
and I personally have had no issues with them.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Ray,
I started wondering about your question a bit more, and assumed that there must
be a structural difference between the Sky Scout and the Air Camper, to account
for the difference. I don't have a copy of the Sky Scout plans, so I accessed
the Sport Aviation articles online that discuss the Sky Scout, and saw that
the Sky Scout uses basically the same ribs and mounting bracket arrangement
as the Air Camper. And the detail for the cabane struts does show them to be
the same front and rear, yet the draftsman went to the trouble to list the length
for the front and back separately (see attachment). It does make one wonder
whether there should be a difference between front and rear. Maybe the answer
isn't as cut and dried as it seems.
Unfortunately, there aren't so many builders of Sky Scouts to gather empirical
evidence from.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398249#398249
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fgm_scout_struts_817.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Could be Aircraft Related... |
I noticed something- yesterday and thought I would post the question here
just in case someone may have experience with the subject...
While fueling my car, I was looking closely at the radio antenna sticking o
ut of the top of the fender. As with most, if not all fixed "whip" type ant
enna, spiraled around it was a thin piece of wire, like safety wire, from t
op to bottom.- I vaguely remember commercials when this first came about
and I believe it was a way to reduce wind noise.
So, I started to wonder...is a side effect of reducing wind noise, possible
drag reduction?- If so, I wondered how much, if any, of a difference wra
pping wire, (gauge, number of wraps, etc.?) around the various tube type st
ructers on our planes would make.-
Maybe we should all wrap WIRE around our various WIRE cross cables and the
like...8^)
Michael Perez
=0APietenpol HINT Videos
=0AKaretaker Aero
=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Is it EVER as simple as it seems?
Incidence is really only in relation to the horiz stab and/or all of this in relation
to the "center line" of the fuse.
When I splat the gear, it bent up my wing struts, so I built new ones by unbending
the old ones and measuring them as well as I could (which was clearly somewhat
of a swag). Because I wasn't sure if the length of the old ones were "trimmed"
to my plane, I just copied them rather than referring to the plans.
I also rebuilt the cabane struts (as they were bushed incorrectly) which had to
change them somewhat. It was a rebuild of them rather than a replacement.
And then, I replaced one of the brace wires (damage to only that one...) and who
knows if they were all retensioned the same as they were.
And then I just flew it... and noticed not one single difference than before.
The point is, I'm not sure even an INCH is really noticeable in this genre of
flying.
I often wonder if all the speed and climb differences we experience are more due
to rigging (or lack thereof) rather than minute differences in props, airfoils
or streamlined fittings. A fuselage not aligned with travel direction presents
LOTS of frontal area, and that's what we're talking about when we change
the incidence of the wing, and then corresponding elevator trim or stab incidence
change.
I found on my last cross country (my first alone, so had time to just play and
experiment) I picked up a cool 5mph by holding the ball about 3/4 out to the left,
meaning something wasn't rigged just right or the ball indicator a little
off, something.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398250#398250
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Tools,
Is splat the past tense of split? Or are you referring to the noise they made on
that one landing? You Boat School Navy guys need to be a little more specific.
[Wink]
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398252#398252
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Tools,
Really? Only three days to build new landing gear legs, scarf in two new longerons,
replace the belly skin and one crossmember, and recover?
Did you do the work up at the North Pole around the summer solstice?
That's a LOT of work to accomplish in only three days. You must work very fast.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398256#398256
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 2013 Brodhead Pietenpol Fly-In |
Lets hope this isn't the firepit this year!
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398257#398257
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_176.jpg
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Really it's not. I spent MONTHS staring at it figuring out exactly what and how,
but the actual work from when the fuse was staged and I first started actual
repair (not all the prep of staging...), it was about 3 average length days.
Would be quicker if not waiting for things to dry. I only recovered what I
had to since the covering there is only asthetic, thought it would be a good place
to practice how to fix a hole essentially. I didn't recover the whole thing.
It was basically two strips of fabric about 8" by 4 feet or so.
I'm also lucky enough to have a very well equipped shop. It took some rather esoteric
tools to do it efficiently. A weird type of japanese flooring saw that
can start a cut in the middle of a board, other funky little narrow kerf and
flexible saws, a rather good sized back saw, probably had 40 or 50 clamps on
there when I scarfed on side plywood pieces. Could only do one side at a time
since I ran out of clamps! I used three or four handplanes to get old glue off
some areas (bull nose rabbet plane, chisel plane, small block planes). Had
to carve some joints apart, which took all the hand cutting mortise and tenon
joint skill I had, and a decent selection of chisels. I milled the legs from
some VERY nice southern yellow pine from a pallet I had laying around. That
included resawing, planing, ripping, blind stopped bevel cuts on the tablesaw,
routing and those weird angled cuts which are really easy on a big bandsaw.
It took one 12 hr day to make struts (aluminum very much like Larry W's) and rebuild
the cabane struts (could have made new ones as quickly, just didn't have
the materials on hand, and rebuilding was just as functional). But again, about
a month sketching, designing, fretting, etc beforehand.
I'm fortunate that high end woodworking has been my primary hobby for over 20 years.
It could be done with LOTS less, but nearly as efficiently.
When spending some time with Dick N, I was helping with the group Piet project
he's spearheading. I was mortising in the elev/stab hinges. It took about an
hour plus per hinge with a 1/2" wide xacto brand tool with a chisel like blade
(flat across the end). In my shop, with a very well designed workbench and
my mortising chisel set, it would take about 5 to 10 minutes... of course I got
a LOT of practice (to the tune of 106... or so) mortises like that I cut in
oak, for my daughters baby crib (she's 22, the crib is now about 21 1/2... I'm
a very serious procrastinator!), and they were all 3/4" deep, not 1/8" (which
is one easy pass in spruce).
A decent command of hand tools really makes retrofitting stuff a lot easier. It's
pretty easy to make a pattern for a router to cut some part. But to get inside
a cockpit and cut a hole... a nice japanese keyhole saw is quick, efficient,
and practically no chance of a misstep and ruining who knows what.
If someone has a difficult time making wing ribs, I wouldn't recommend a retrofit
of a door. However, if they make shaker oval boxes... child's play... so as
always, it depends.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398264#398264
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| Subject: | 3 days to rebuild--very impressive |
That is just an INCREDIBLE amount of work to accomplish in three days, yes
Bill. I'm amazed at your productivity
Mike. That is a VERY impressive rebuild time.
I recall the first time I built a set of landing gear legs, it took me abou
t 3 days just to get all the compound angles correct
with lots of cursing because I wasn't smart enough to use two-by-fours to p
ractice on first.
My hat is off to you Mike for some incredible rebuild time that you accompl
ished so much in so little time. Does that include
color matching paint and all. Amazing.
Mike C.
Hope you get to enjoy some good flying this spring in Dick's old Piet.
Mike Danford wrote: (tools)
During a landing accident, I broke BOTH the bottom longerons on my wood fus
e Piet. The repair itself, building new landing gear legs (wood gear), sca
rfing in new longerons, replacing the belly skin, one crossmember and the r
ecovering really only took 3 days.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Hey... be nice! I'm rather sensitive...
Not sure what they sounded like since all I heard was "Oooooh fudge...",
but I didn't say fudge...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398266#398266
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| Subject: | "Re-PIET" tire change |
Well, my supercool (to my eye anyway) gray tires started cracking too much
for comfort. Gray rubber is old fashioned natural rubber and being
non-vulcanized, cracks like old fashioned tires did. These kept cracking
along the seam though, so the tire company very kindly exchanged them for a
black set, which won't have any of those problems.
Just put them on, and it's she kinda looks different.
Supposed I'll get used to it!
Douwe
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Thanks, Bill.
Those are the plans I have. I also have the Air Camper plans and go back and forth
between the two. The similarities are intriguing, but different. That is
why I questioned the incidence matter and I thought I had read something about
it here. I will stick to the plans and see what happens. But after using
the plans dimensions, I find I need more incidence, it will require all new cabanes,
struts, fittings and cables. IF I go with the added 1", I could always
modify the rest of the materials to accommodate the shorter front cabane. Oh
well, it takes faith to build an airplane!
Thanks for your time and research. That is the great part about this forum, you
really care!
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:24 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Ray,
> I started wondering about your question a bit more, and assumed that there must
be a structural difference between the Sky Scout and the Air Camper, to account
for the difference. I don't have a copy of the Sky Scout plans, so I accessed
the Sport Aviation articles online that discuss the Sky Scout, and saw that
the Sky Scout uses basically the same ribs and mounting bracket arrangement
as the Air Camper. And the detail for the cabane struts does show them to be
the same front and rear, yet the draftsman went to the trouble to list the length
for the front and back separately (see attachment). It does make one wonder
whether there should be a difference between front and rear. Maybe the answer
isn't as cut and dried as it seems.
> Unfortunately, there aren't so many builders of Sky Scouts to gather empirical
evidence from.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398249#398249
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/fgm_scout_struts_817.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: "Re-PIET" tire change |
Douwe:
They will not look right until they have No Hunting or No Fishing painted on them
anyway. 8^)
Stinemetze
do not archive
>>> "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> 4/9/2013 3:38 PM >>>
Well, my supercool (to my eye anyway) gray tires started cracking too much
for comfort. Gray rubber is old fashioned natural rubber and being
non-vulcanized, cracks like old fashioned tires did. These kept cracking
along the seam though, so the tire company very kindly exchanged them for a
black set, which won't have any of those problems.
Just put them on, and it's she kinda looks different.
Supposed I'll get used to it!
Douwe
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
You mean I won't just drop out of the sky if I go with no wing incidence, or with
the 1inch you use with the Air Camper?
With my Waiex, I tend to have a heavy left foot. If I relax and am not paying
attention, I will be flying along with the ball out about a full ball width. When
I finally feel it (guess my seat of the pants is dying), I make the correction
by removing my left foot, I pick up another 5MPH! So much for trim.
Ray Krause
Sky
Scout
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:51 AM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is it EVER as simple as it seems?
>
> Incidence is really only in relation to the horiz stab and/or all of this in
relation to the "center line" of the fuse.
>
> When I splat the gear, it bent up my wing struts, so I built new ones by unbending
the old ones and measuring them as well as I could (which was clearly somewhat
of a swag). Because I wasn't sure if the length of the old ones were "trimmed"
to my plane, I just copied them rather than referring to the plans.
>
> I also rebuilt the cabane struts (as they were bushed incorrectly) which had
to change them somewhat. It was a rebuild of them rather than a replacement.
>
> And then, I replaced one of the brace wires (damage to only that one...) and
who knows if they were all retensioned the same as they were.
>
> And then I just flew it... and noticed not one single difference than before.
The point is, I'm not sure even an INCH is really noticeable in this genre of
flying.
>
> I often wonder if all the speed and climb differences we experience are more
due to rigging (or lack thereof) rather than minute differences in props, airfoils
or streamlined fittings. A fuselage not aligned with travel direction presents
LOTS of frontal area, and that's what we're talking about when we change
the incidence of the wing, and then corresponding elevator trim or stab incidence
change.
>
> I found on my last cross country (my first alone, so had time to just play and
experiment) I picked up a cool 5mph by holding the ball about 3/4 out to the
left, meaning something wasn't rigged just right or the ball indicator a little
off, something.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398250#398250
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Wing incidence.. |
Great point, and thanks.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2013, at 9:51 AM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is it EVER as simple as it seems?
>
> Incidence is really only in relation to the horiz stab and/or all of this in
relation to the "center line" of the fuse.
>
> When I splat the gear, it bent up my wing struts, so I built new ones by unbending
the old ones and measuring them as well as I could (which was clearly somewhat
of a swag). Because I wasn't sure if the length of the old ones were "trimmed"
to my plane, I just copied them rather than referring to the plans.
>
> I also rebuilt the cabane struts (as they were bushed incorrectly) which had
to change them somewhat. It was a rebuild of them rather than a replacement.
>
> And then, I replaced one of the brace wires (damage to only that one...) and
who knows if they were all retensioned the same as they were.
>
> And then I just flew it... and noticed not one single difference than before.
The point is, I'm not sure even an INCH is really noticeable in this genre of
flying.
>
> I often wonder if all the speed and climb differences we experience are more
due to rigging (or lack thereof) rather than minute differences in props, airfoils
or streamlined fittings. A fuselage not aligned with travel direction presents
LOTS of frontal area, and that's what we're talking about when we change
the incidence of the wing, and then corresponding elevator trim or stab incidence
change.
>
> I found on my last cross country (my first alone, so had time to just play and
experiment) I picked up a cool 5mph by holding the ball about 3/4 out to the
left, meaning something wasn't rigged just right or the ball indicator a little
off, something.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398250#398250
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: "Re-PIET" tire change |
All you do is work on that thing? Still looks great! Is that baby bump growing,
or is that jut a pimple on its nose? I'm hoping it's a baby bump!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2013, at 1:38 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Well, my supercool (to my eye anyway) gray tires started cracking too much
> for comfort. Gray rubber is old fashioned natural rubber and being
> non-vulcanized, cracks like old fashioned tires did. These kept cracking
> along the seam though, so the tire company very kindly exchanged them for a
> black set, which won't have any of those problems.
>
> Just put them on, and it's she kinda looks different.
>
> Supposed I'll get used to it!
>
> Douwe
>
> <photo.JPG>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: "Re-PIET" tire change |
Sorry, guess that is Gary with the baby bump! Your pig is not the same! Still
looks great!
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2013, at 1:38 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Douwe
>
Message 29
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Outstanding Mario!
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finish a wing
Hello,
I have finish my first wing. I paint it with latex, it have by the moment 4
( 1 Gal) hands of paint, I plan 2 or 3 more but in yellow. Inspections
rings, cables, evrything in it place.
Some photos here http://goo.gl/zAl1L
do not archive
--------
Mario Giacummo
Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398230#398230
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05170_161.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05169_148.jpg
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Tools, what a shop, could you put me in your will? Seriously, I have many
tools and airplane stuff. I have a list for wife Susan to contact should I
expire, or when I guess. They are people I trust in assisting her with the
disposal of my riches...
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 2:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam
Really it's not. I spent MONTHS staring at it figuring out exactly what and
how, but the actual work from when the fuse was staged and I first started
actual repair (not all the prep of staging...), it was about 3 average
length days. Would be quicker if not waiting for things to dry. I only
recovered what I had to since the covering there is only asthetic, thought
it would be a good place to practice how to fix a hole essentially. I
didn't recover the whole thing. It was basically two strips of fabric about
8" by 4 feet or so.
I'm also lucky enough to have a very well equipped shop. It took some
rather esoteric tools to do it efficiently. A weird type of japanese
flooring saw that can start a cut in the middle of a board, other funky
little narrow kerf and flexible saws, a rather good sized back saw, probably
had 40 or 50 clamps on there when I scarfed on side plywood pieces. Could
only do one side at a time since I ran out of clamps! I used three or four
handplanes to get old glue off some areas (bull nose rabbet plane, chisel
plane, small block planes). Had to carve some joints apart, which took all
the hand cutting mortise and tenon joint skill I had, and a decent selection
of chisels. I milled the legs from some VERY nice southern yellow pine from
a pallet I had laying around. That included resawing, planing, ripping,
blind stopped bevel cuts on the tablesaw, routing and those weird angled
cuts which are really easy on a big bandsaw.
It took one 12 hr day to make struts (aluminum very much like Larry W's) and
rebuild the cabane struts (could have made new ones as quickly, just didn't
have the materials on hand, and rebuilding was just as functional). But
again, about a month sketching, designing, fretting, etc beforehand.
I'm fortunate that high end woodworking has been my primary hobby for over
20 years. It could be done with LOTS less, but nearly as efficiently.
When spending some time with Dick N, I was helping with the group Piet
project he's spearheading. I was mortising in the elev/stab hinges. It
took about an hour plus per hinge with a 1/2" wide xacto brand tool with a
chisel like blade (flat across the end). In my shop, with a very well
designed workbench and my mortising chisel set, it would take about 5 to 10
minutes... of course I got a LOT of practice (to the tune of 106... or so)
mortises like that I cut in oak, for my daughters baby crib (she's 22, the
crib is now about 21 1/2... I'm a very serious procrastinator!), and they
were all 3/4" deep, not 1/8" (which is one easy pass in spruce).
A decent command of hand tools really makes retrofitting stuff a lot easier.
It's pretty easy to make a pattern for a router to cut some part. But to
get inside a cockpit and cut a hole... a nice japanese keyhole saw is quick,
efficient, and practically no chance of a misstep and ruining who knows
what.
If someone has a difficult time making wing ribs, I wouldn't recommend a
retrofit of a door. However, if they make shaker oval boxes... child's
play... so as always, it depends.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398264#398264
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| Subject: | "Re-PIET" tire change |
Douwe what a beautiful Ship!
Jack Textor
Des Moines, IA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Re-PIET" tire change
Well, my supercool (to my eye anyway) gray tires started cracking too much
for comfort. Gray rubber is old fashioned natural rubber and being
non-vulcanized, cracks like old fashioned tires did. These kept cracking
along the seam though, so the tire company very kindly exchanged them for a
black set, which won't have any of those problems.
Just put them on, and it's she kinda looks different.
Supposed I'll get used to it!
Douwe
Message 32
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| Subject: | Pietenpol magazine article |
Okay, it's from six years ago, but it's not a bad article about a few Canadian
Pietenpols. Kind of a big file - takes a bit of time to download.
http://www.raa.ca/magazine_pdf/Jan-Feb07.pdf
Bill C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398298#398298
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| Subject: | Re: "Re-PIET" tire change |
Gray tyres, schmay tyres... (although the gray is TOTALLY cool...), it IS a beautiful
ship.
Every pic I see seems to show off a few more details.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398299#398299
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol magazine article |
Thankyou for that Bill...
Charles B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 9:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol magazine article
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Okay, it's from six years ago, but it's not a bad article about a few
> Canadian Pietenpols. Kind of a big file - takes a bit of time to
> download.
>
> http://www.raa.ca/magazine_pdf/Jan-Feb07.pdf
>
> Bill C
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398298#398298
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 3 days to rebuild--very impressive |
michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov wrote:
> about 3 days just to get all the compound angles correct
> with lots of cursing because I wasn't smart enough to use two-by-fours to practice
on first.
Gee... sorry to hear that. Figure angle, draw line, cut along line... not NASA
science.
Will definitely enjoy flying NX2RN, it's a joy! Thanks! Finally got a good start
on the hangar.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398307#398307
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Could be Aircraft Related... |
Michael,
You have a good memory. A quick search brought up the following-
>From http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/industry/Transcripts/2000/118.htm
[Why'd They Do That? - Car Antennas]
John McElroy, American Driver
"And, finally tonight, in a segment we like to call Whyd they do that, Im going
to attempt to explain why all car antennas are not alike. While many antennas
are smooth, have you ever noticed how some others look like they have a wire
wrapped around them, or have a spiral groove in them? You know what thats for?
Its to cut down on wind noise and vibration. That spiral shape actually helps
the antenna slice through the wind more easily, so its quieter. When an antenna
is mounted on the front fender, as the wind comes off it, that noise is actually
directed right at the driver. These spiral-type antennas direct the noise
off to the side of the car. And you know how automotive engineers test these
antennas to see how quiet they are? They go outside and swish them around like
swords!"
>From http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/2007-ford-edge-ar32661.html
"Even the radio antenna was scrutinized. By modifying the pitch and height of the
spiral by tenths of a millimeter, wind noise was reduced by as much as two
decibels."
>From http://www.autoworld.com/cutlass.htm
"The radio antenna has a spiral-ground groove to prevent wind whistles."
However, I don't think wind noise is an apples-to-apples comparison to drag. I
am not an aeronautical engineer nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last
night, but I don't think the logic behind one translates directly to the other.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398311#398311
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: 3 days to rebuild--very impressive |
Mike,
You almost sound like you don't believe Tools. The crack about paint matching gave
it away.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398312#398312
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| Subject: | Re: Could be Aircraft Related... |
Still worth researching... ever try to teach someone to fly in a Piet? EVERY decibel
counts. Just sayin'...
Now curious about how many folks have actually learned to fly in a Piet. Scott
has ONE lesson in a Taylorcraft, the rest in a Piet.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398313#398313
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: 3 days to rebuild--very impressive |
Oh ya, the paint matching... no, that's included. Dick is a true gentleman, he
shipped me the correct paint when he heard of the accident.
As is the rest of the Minnesota crowd by the way. UNBELIEVABLE group of folks,
not surprising, birthplace of the Piet.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398314#398314
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: straight axle landing gear |
You're welcome. Yes, I'm in Vancouver.
Since you said "up" can I assume you're
in Washington?
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Aho
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:22 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: straight axle landing gear
Thank you Clif I appreciate the info as I have been very interested in
the types of brakes and ways other have delt with the rotation issue. On
my first Piet NX40772 I used a rather crude method although as I think
about it I suppose it fit the era of the design and it did work. I am a
simple person so I am facinated at the enginuity and craftsmanship of
others. Am I correct that you live up in Beautiful BC? Greetings from a
fellow N. Westerner
Craig
> From: cdawson5854@shaw.ca
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: straight axle landing gear
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 23:39:56 -0700
>
> The entire brake assembly is free floating on the
> axle. The axle does whatever it would do if
> there weren't any brakes at all. I went through
> a few trees worth of paper to come up with the
> position and angles that would minimize the
> rotational movement of the brake assembly as
> the axle goes up and down over bumps.
>
> I don't expect to be using the brakes moving
> over anything that bumpy anyway and I certainly
> don't plan on hitting the brakes on touchdown! :-)
> And not when moving at more than a snails pace
> either. Mostly for runup and pivot turning. Just
> like the Chief I presently fly. On the grass at my
> strip, idle the engine and it stops pretty quick on
> it's own.
>
> This pic illustrates the main parts. The disc, of
> course, bolts to the wheel hub.There is a large
> bearing sheet between that and the plate on the
> right shown by a thick dark line. The only things
> attached to the axle are the end cap and split
> collar. They hold everything in place and
> alignment. Clear as mud ??? :-)
>
> Clif
> Nothing worse could happen to one than
> to be completely understood.
> C.G.Jung
>
>
>
>
<Soar561@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Am trying to visualize how this works, so the white metal arm is
free to
> > pivot up and back down with the axel and still prevents rotation
under
> > braking? I assume we only need 2-3 inches of travel for the axel?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398165#398165
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/09/13
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Could be Aircraft Related... |
Aren't our cables already twisted? Or is it just me?
Don't answer that!!! :-)
Clif
>>From http://www.theautochannel.com/mania/industry/Transcripts/2000/118.htm
> [Why'd They Do That? - Car Antennas]
> John McElroy, American Driver
> "And, finally tonight, in a segment we like to call ?oWhy?Td they do
> that, I?Tm going to attempt to explain why all car antennas are not
> alike. While many antennas are smooth, have you ever noticed how some
> others look like they have a wire wrapped around them, or have a spiral
> groove in them? You know what that?Ts for? It?Ts to cut down on wind
> noise and vibration. That spiral shape actually helps the antenna slice
> through the wind more easily, so it?Ts quieter. When an antenna is
> mounted on the front fender, as the wind comes off it, that noise is
> actually directed right at the driver. These spiral-type antennas direct
> the noise off to the side of the car. And you know how automotive
> engineers test these antennas to see how quiet they are? They go outside
> and swish them around like swords!"
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
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