Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:04 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Fun2av8)
2. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Marcus Zechini)
3. 07:35 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Bill Church)
4. 08:01 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (tools)
5. 10:57 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Avill)
6. 11:52 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (taildrags)
7. 12:51 PM - Re: Louisville guys (taildrags)
8. 03:20 PM - Re: Louisville guys (dgaldrich)
9. 04:08 PM - Baggage Cage (pineymb)
10. 06:14 PM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Fun2av8)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Getting the logs and paper work in order. I have a weight and balance data that
some of the info is really difficult to decipher. See attached.
What I need to find / figure out is how to create / get a weight & balance chart.
Can someone help me figure this one out?
--------
Jim McWhorter
N687MB (New Owner)
Culpeper, VA KCJR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399001#399001
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight_and_balance_n687mb_2_514.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight_and_balance_n687mb_1_251.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sample_wandb_graph_136.png
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
I was about to rent or buy scales to weigh mine...avery tools
On Apr 20, 2013 9:07 AM, "Fun2av8" <iflyga@fun2av8.com> wrote:
>
> Getting the logs and paper work in order. I have a weight and balance
> data that some of the info is really difficult to decipher. See attached.
>
> What I need to find / figure out is how to create / get a weight & balance
> chart.
>
> Can someone help me figure this one out?
>
> --------
> Jim McWhorter
> N687MB (New Owner)
> Culpeper, VA KCJR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399001#399001
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight_and_balance_n687mb_2_514.pdf
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight_and_balance_n687mb_1_251.pdf
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/sample_wandb_graph_136.png
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
http://bit.ly/11vyl7Q
> I don't know what TARE is and I'm not sure about some of the data the form is
asking for.
>
> Can someone help me figure this one out?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399005#399005
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
I can see why you're confused!
Really, this is probably going to be the easiest for you if you have someone local
you can sit down with over a beer and figure it all out.
However, here's a couple of points that I hope help a little.
First, there's some fixed values you NEED to know, and given what I've seen in
your attachments, I'd verify if I were you.
Prop up the tail of the plane to where the top longeron of the fuse is parallel
to the ground. Then, mark the center of where the front wheels touch the ground.
Drop a plumb line from the center of where the tail wheel touches whatever
it's propped up on, to the ground and that's your wheel base. Your paper work
seems to indicate it's 179 inches?
Since the safe center of gravity is usually represented as a distance range from
the leading edge of the wing, you need to know where that is, relative to the
front wheels. One of your docs seems to indicate 7 inches, the other SEEMS
to say 5.59 inches. That's only a inch and a half difference, but that's pretty
significant. Drop a plumb line from the leading edge to the ground and then
measure to figure the distance.
Third, you need to know what the safe cg range is for a GN-1. MOST normal little
planes' wings have a safe cg range of about 20 to 30 percent of the MAC...
or from a fifth to a third of the width (or chord) of the wing from the leading
edge.
For a piet, that has a 60 inch chord, it's from 12 to 20 inches from the leading
edge. However, I think the plans indicate 15 to 20 inches, which is merely
more conservative. Probably ought to look through your operating limitations
for something. If that doesn't work, ask GN-1 builders (there's plenty here)
what their plans indicate.
There are formulas you can use, or derive, to figure the min and max weights here
and there to determine the data you need to make the chart you want. But really,
it's Piet.... there's only so much you can do to change the CG! Basically
it's gonna be based (since I think you only have a over wing tank) on Pilot
weight. The pax is pretty much on the CG and wont change things much.
Rather than using a lot of formulas, or guessing where the cg of various components
are and doing very involved calculations, I just loaded the plane this way
and that (me in the front, son in the back... me in the back son inthe front,
just me, just him... ) and weighed it each way and did the simple calculation
of determining where the cg was in each case and got a feel for what is safe
in the plane.
I was surprised to learn that for my Piet (which is a pretty standard Piet) that
a difference of some 50 lbs in the pilot seat only changed the cg about an inch...
from 18 to 19 inches or thereabouts. If the plane was set up correctly
to begin with (basically where the wing is on the thing and things like batteries,
props), it'll be fine for practically all operating conditions.
So load it up, weigh it, fill out a sheet showing your calculations and that they're
within the safe range, log it and go flying! Double check if you decide
to take the battery out, change from a metal to wood prop, stuff like that.
If your plane is like most, it's close to the aft limit, just how they usually
wind up. So put the heaviest guy in there you think is gonna fly it, the lightest,
you get the idea. Then you'll know for SURE.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399006#399006
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Jim,
Tare has to do with the weight of objects that aren't part of the airplane. In
your case chocks, chains, or straps used to hold the plane in position would be
your tare weight. The best solution is to put the chocks on the scale then zero
them out. In your calcs you could just put zero down. Otherwise the weight
of chocks would be tare.
I hope this helps.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399011#399011
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Weight and balance is something that if you do it right, you'll only have to do
it once (until you change something significant on the airplane). It's also
something that if you do it wrong, it can make your airplane squirrelly to fly...
or worse. In the case of my airplane, with all the fuel in a single tank
ahead of the CG, as the fuel burns the CG moves aft, so it's important to know
the W&B and be aware of how it changes in different loading configurations.
The good news is that, like everything else about the Piet (or Grega), it's simple.
My advice would be for you to contact an EAA tech counselor or someone who has
access to good scales and who has done the W&B on other airplanes. That will
make it very easy, quick, and accurate. The last one that I did on Scout, after
I changed the engine and prop, took less than an hour and I am very, very confident
in the logbook entries and in the weights and measurements that we took.
There is an EAA chapter, 186, in Manasses... just over the hill from you. They
have six tech counselors and one of them is Dick Koehler, who is a frequent contributor
to the excellent homebuilder hints videos that EAA offers. Here's
a webpage on the tech counselors:
http://www.186.eaachapter.org/technicalcounselors.htm
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399012#399012
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Louisville guys |
Hey, Douwe: how many Piets are there in a squadron?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399015#399015
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| Subject: | Re: Louisville guys |
IIRC, 16 in a squadron?
Dave
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399018#399018
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Another idea that may be of interest for containing and securing cargo for those
long trips to Brodhead.
Yes throttle knob and stick to be removed when cage in use.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399020#399020
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00671_821.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00655_113.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam |
Absorbing .... Lots of great stuff. As luck would have it EAA Chapter 186 was
out at KCJR today and will be there again tomorrow. I'm going to go introduce
myself. Their website has a really great tutorial on W&B that reads well with
Tools comments.
Got homework to do ... :-)
--------
Jim McWhorter
N687MB (New Owner)
Culpeper, VA KCJR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399021#399021
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