---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/21/13: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:52 AM - baggage cage and squadron size (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Louisville guys (C N Campbell) 3. 06:11 AM - Re: Baggage Cage (C N Campbell) 4. 07:56 AM - Re: Louisville guys (jarheadpilot82) 5. 10:41 AM - Re: Louisville guys (bender) 6. 01:33 PM - Re: Baggage Cage (taildrags) 7. 01:39 PM - Re: baggage cage and squadron size (taildrags) 8. 05:12 PM - Successful gross weight test (Douwe Blumberg) 9. 05:32 PM - Re: Successful gross weight test (Ken Bickers) 10. 06:02 PM - Re: Successful gross weight test (Avill) 11. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: Baggage Cage (Isablcorky@aol.com) 12. 06:29 PM - Anyone in the Springfield, VA area? (Jim Markle) 13. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Newbie needed help and info. (Ken Bickers) 14. 07:22 PM - Re: Anyone in the Springfield, VA area? (M. Zeke Zechini) 15. 08:19 PM - Re: baggage cage and squadron size (Clif Dawson) 16. 10:20 PM - Number of varnish coats needed... (Mark Roberts) 17. 10:37 PM - What should I do to fix this?? (Mark Roberts) 18. 10:37 PM - What should I do to fix this?? (Mark Roberts) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:55 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: baggage cage and squadron size COOL BAGGAGE CAGE! Re Oscar's question as to what constitutes an proper and official Pietenpol squadron; here are my thoughts. Like most things in life, I think this is relative, as it seems to be in air forces around the world. However, in my book a Pietenpol squadron is comprised of three or more airplanes. I feel this is justified by their relative rarity and uniqueness which makes a flight of three or more a pretty unusual event. Plus I always thought it was just a cool word to say. $.02 Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:06 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Louisville guys Number of aircraft in a squadron depends on when, where, and what branch of service. During WW2 in the US Navy in an aircraft carrier group the number of squadrons was 3 and the number was typically 36 aircraft with 150% crew members in each giving 108 planes (plus a few spares). During the latter stages of the war the powers that be decided we needed more fighter aircraft so the number of planes in a bomber squadron (VB) and a torpedo squadron (VT) was reduced to 18 planes and a fighter-bomber squadron (VBF) was added (still with 108 aircraft in the airgroup). This occurred in late 1944. Now, the number of Piets in a squadron depends on who organizes the squadron and what the squadron's function would be. Anyone's guess. Chuck Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "dgaldrich" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 6:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Louisville guys > > > IIRC, 16 in a squadron? > > Dave > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399018#399018 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:12 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Baggage Cage I like it!!! C Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "pineymb" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 7:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Baggage Cage > > Another idea that may be of interest for containing and securing cargo for > those long trips to Brodhead. > Yes throttle knob and stick to be removed when cage in use. > > -------- > Adrian M > Winnipeg, MB > Canada > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399020#399020 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00671_821.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00655_113.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Louisville guys From: "jarheadpilot82" To follow Chuck's line of thinking about aircraft numbers in his squadron, during my two cruises (7 months each time in WestPac, 1983-4, 1984-5) we had 12 CH-46's, 4 CH-53's, 4 Cobras, and 2 Hueys, totaling 22 airframes. In addition, on my second cruise we had 4 AV-8A/C Harriers, for a total of 26 airframes. Two years later, I was an IP in VT-3 at Whiting Field, FL. Technically, we had NO airplanes as they were owned by Training Wing 5, maintained under contract by DynaCorp, and doled out to VT-2, VT-3, and VT-6 on a rotating basis. The squadron was made up of the pilots and support personnel. So my point is this - a squadron is the people, not the aircraft. The aircraft can number between zero and as many as you want. I think that this forum could be considered the Pietenpol Squadron. Your KY contingent is merely a Section, or Flight out of the larger Squadron. So who is Section Lead? My $.02 -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399049#399049 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Louisville guys From: "bender" I really need to fly soon so i can get the 40 hrs off by then. I had a couple of emails with Jim... and Bob McKinley is the guy across the river at JVY i believe... I've seen his plane in the hangar over there. Can't wait for that trip north i have a smaller diameter crankshaft pulley on the way to slow down the water pump... Hope that solves my issue so i can get off the ground jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399054#399054 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Baggage Cage From: "taildrags" Now see, I like that cage too! Great idea! A guy could even make it out of aluminum and pop it all together with pulled rivets and not need to weld anything. We don't need no FAA, PMA, STCs, 337s, or any of that other stuff, either ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399062#399062 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: baggage cage and squadron size From: "taildrags" It has been duly noted in the Pietenpol Field Operations Manual that three Air Campers shall constitute a squadron. And I suppose that a flight of three could also operate as a 'missing man formation', with Mr. Pietenpol as the missing man. So, how many squadrons are there in a wing? ;o) Don't answer that. I'm curious to know what has been the largest number of Piets all together in one place at one time. That would be an interesting assemblage of Air Campers (and/or their derivatives). do not archive -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399064#399064 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:35 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Successful gross weight test Today, "RE-PIET" successfully carried her max gross weight. As I consider it unsafe to try to secure 160 of ballast in the cockpit, I decided to use myself. All went well. Obviously a bit more sluggish, but trimmed out and stalled nicely. This load was 40 lbs more than Marci and I with a full load of 20 gallons. Douwe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Successful gross weight test From: Ken Bickers Douwe, I'll refrain from any comments about flying inverted while doing a gross weight test. That would be too easy. My question is about the goggles. They appear to be prescription lens, and are very sharp looking. Where did you get them? And what do you think of them? Cheers, Ken On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Today, =93RE-PIET=94 successfully carried her max gross weight. As I > consider it unsafe to try to secure 160 of ballast in the cockpit, I > decided to use myself.**** > > ** ** > > All went well. Obviously a bit more sluggish, but trimmed out and stalle d > nicely. This load was 40 lbs more than Marci and I with a full load of 2 0 > gallons.**** > > ** ** > > Douwe**** > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Successful gross weight test From: "Avill" What was your stall speed whilst at gross? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399077#399077 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:54 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Baggage Cage In a message dated 4/21/2013 3:33:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" Now see, I like that cage too! Great idea! A guy could even make it out of aluminum and pop it all together with pulled rivets and not need to weld anything. We don't need no FAA, PMA, STCs, 337s, or any of that other stuff, either ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399062#399062 Oscar????????????????? Are you getting that 60s urge to sneek through those low Sierra passes early in the mornings toward Brodhead?????????????????????? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone in the Springfield, VA area? From: Jim Markle SSBtaWdodCBiZSBpbiB0aGUgYXJlYSBuZXh0IHdlZWsgYW5kIHN1cmUgd291bGQgZW5qb3kgYSB2 aXNpdCBhbmQgYSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wgZXZlbmluZyEKClNlbnQgdmlhIHNtYXJ0cGhvbmUuLi5zbyBw bGVhc2UgaWdub3JlIHR5cG9zLi4uLg= ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info. From: Ken Bickers Gardiner, I'm in Longmont, which is north of Denver by about 40 miles. Feel free to drop in when you are in the state. With the weather warming up (notwithstanding the forecast of more snow tomorrow night and the next day), most evenings I'll be working at my hangar on the Pietenpol. Let me know when you are coming and I'll put a beer or two in the fridge. Cheers, Ken On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 6:34 AM, wrote: > Ken, where are you located. I have kids in Colorado Springs and glen wood > springs and I get out there often. My Piet has the cut out. And the WWII > corvair. Gardiner Mason (Airlion) > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 17, 2013, at 8:54 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: > > Avill, > > I've given this question a lot of thought over the past several years. I, > too, operate out of a fairly high airport, KLMO, which has a field > elevation of just over 5k, but with density altitudes that are typically > between 7k and 9k during the summer. > > On my Pietenpol project, which is not yet flying, I've done at least three > things to compensate for altitude. One, I lengthened the wings by 9 inches > on each side. I know that isn't much, but the spar blanks I bought from > Aircraft Spruce were 14' long. I decided not to cut off the 9 inches, and > instead to take advantage of the extra length. That works out to a 5% > longer wingspan. The attach points for the diagonal spars moved out > approximately 6 inches from what is called out in the plans. I did lots of > calculations using the formulas on the WestCoastPiet.com website before > deciding whether (and where) to shift the strut attach points, as the > section of the wing outside the struts is where the greatest lift stresses > are located. > > Two, I decided not to do a cutout over the rear cockpit. Everything I > read suggests this reduces lift by a significant amount. Were I nearer to > sea level, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to build with the cutout. I > love the look. But I want to retain every last measure of lift. Instead, > I built a flop section. That gives me ease of access to the rear pit and > preserves lift. > > Three, I decided to use a Corvair engine. I'm going fairly stock, ala > William Wynne's conversion manual, with a set up to produce approximately > 100 hp at sea level, or about 70-75 hp on a typical summer day here in > Colorado. > > Not specific to altitude but just in general, I've tried to be judicious > about things that add weight. I have made a couple of concessions. I've > used the Jenny-style landing gear. It is a bit heavier than the J3-style > gear. I just like the way it looks. Also, I've installed a second fuel > tank. Again, I wouldn't have done that if I still lived in the midwest > where there is an airport every few miles. Where I fly, airports can get > awfully far apart. When they do, I'd swear the winds are directly off the > nose. > > Tell us all where you are. If you are in the Colorado area, feel free to > drop me a PM. There are a few other Pietenpols in the area -- a couple > that are finished and a couple, including mine, that are advancing toward > completion. > > My best, Ken > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Avill wrote: > >> >> I have been wondering this exact same thing. Thanks for bring it up Bill. >> My reasons are different though. I would be operating a Piet off of >> airports at altitudes of 5-6,000 ft before factoring in DA. Hence why I >> would be interested in any experiences operating at these altitudes, or >> folks that have extended their wing, and how they did it. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398836#398836 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone in the Springfield, VA area? From: "M. Zeke Zechini" Jim: It's quite a stretch, but if it's not rush hour...it would take about an hou r and a half to get out to White Post, near Wincester, Va. I keep my GN-1 th ere. Mr. Sam just arrived (jim McWhorter just purchased) and lives in Culpep er, about same time out of Springfield. I think Gene Rambo about finished wi th his Model A masterpiece, also at KCJR. -Zeke Sent from my iPad On Apr 21, 2013, at 9:28 PM, Jim Markle wrote: > I might be in the area next week and sure would enjoy a visit and a Pieten pol evening! > > Sent via smartphone...so please ignore typos.... > ky=C2=B7=C3=A8=C5=BE=C3=9B"=C3=8D=C3=AD=C5=93=C2=A2Z+=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9A q=C3=A7(=C2=BA=C2=B8=C5=BE=C2=AEw=C2=B0r=B9=C2=AB=B0=C3=C3=93 =C3=A3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5-=C3=8BD=84=A2=C2=A8 =C2=A5=16=C5-=C3=AE=84=A2K=1E=C2=B6=17=C5=92j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',.+-=15 =C3=C2=AD=C2=BA=C2=B7=C2=AC5=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AE=C3=9A=1B=C2=AE =C5=92,z=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2 =B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=0B=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5- =BAb=C2=A2p+r=18=C2=AFy'=C5=A1=C2=AD=C3=88C=C2=A3 =C3=A5=C2=A1=C2=A7{ =C2=AC=C2=81=C2=AE=C5=92,x(Z=C2=B4P=10>=1A-=C2=A2=C3=88Z=C2=AD=C3=C2=A7v k=C5=93-k=C5=93-j+y=C2=A8ky=C3=B8m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C &j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8 =C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C &j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8 =C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A0=04=C3=918=C3=92=02I a=01=14=C3=A4T1$=C5=A1=84=A2=C3=A8+y=C2=AB\=C2=A2{^=C5=BE=C3'=C2=A5=C2=B2 -=C2=AFj)ZnW=C2=AF=B0=C2=ABayg=BA=16=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3 =86=C2=A1=C2=AD=C3=A7=C3=A1=C2=B6=C3=9A=7F=C3=BD=C3=BA+=C2=BAk&j=C3=9A=C3=A8 =C5=BE',r=B0=C2=A1=C2=B6=C3=9A=7F=C3=BD=C3=BA+=C2=BAk&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5 =BE',r=B0=C2h=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4*'=C2=B6=C2=B8=BA=C2=BA=C3=98=C2 =A8=C2=9Dg=BAJ+^N=16=C2=A7=9C*.~=C5-=C3=B2=C2=A2=C3=C3-zw =C2=AB=C2=A2=C3=AB,=C2=BA=C5=A1h=C2=AE=C3=93=1A=C2=B6=C3=90=C3=ABjY^.+-=01=C3 =99=C2=A2=C2=9D=C2=A8ky=C3=B8m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE ',r=B0=C2r=B0=C3=AD=C2=AE&=C3=AE=C2=B6*'-=C3=9Bi=C3 =C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B7(=C5=BE=C3=9A =C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2=7F=C3=9A=C3=BD=C2=C3=9F=C2=A2{=7F=C2=C2=B7=C2n =A1r=C3=BE=1Bf ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:13 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: baggage cage and squadron size Sounds to me that each one of us is worth at least thirty six of anyone else. Or is that just my multipersonality syndrom rearing it's ugly head?? :-) Clif "If you've heard this story before," said Groucho Marx, "don't stop me, because I'd like to hear it again." Re Oscar's question as to what constitutes an proper and official Pietenpol squadron; here are my thoughts. Like most things in life, I think this is relative, as it seems to be in air forces around the world. However, in my book a Pietenpol squadron is comprised of three or more airplanes. I feel this is justified by their relative rarity and uniqueness which makes a flight of three or more a pretty unusual event. Plus I always thought it was just a cool word to say. $.02 Douwe ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Number of varnish coats needed... From: "Mark Roberts" Hi Guys: What's the consensus out there on number of varnish coats needed for the fuselage... I got one coat on most of the front inside parts (did'nt get all the underneath sides fully or the outside of the bottom floor yet). But, I painted the metal parts I've welded with Alum. Oxide and then black enamel spray paint, and then put the first coat of unthinned Man-O-War spar varnish on the fuse. Felt I was getting somewhere for a change... but I guess that was just the fumes ;o) So, what's the verdict on numbers of coats to be safe? (Did NOT paint the outside of the fuse where the ply paneling will go... I want a good, raw surface there for bonding...) Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399084#399084 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should I do to fix this?? From: "Mark Roberts" Hi Again: So while painting the varnish on the plane's fuse members today, I discovered something I am very glad I found, but wish I'd have seen before I build the fuse sides. I cut all of my own longerons and cross pieces from raw, un-finished sitka. I cut over size then planed the pieces to the finished size. The vertical fuse strut that connects the bottom fuse longeron to the top longeron, the one that the front left cabane strut connects to, has a compression fracture in the wood about 4-5 inches from the top longeron. You can see it plainly. It is actually glued to the inside 1/8" ply front fuse gusset that lines the inside of the engine tray, but still, it's there plain to see. Dunno how I missed it when I was building it. So, if I was to pull on the top of the cabane strut connection and the bottom of the plane (as if in a tug-o-war.... OR a high G manuver), I could see this part wanting to separate right at that fracture. It is, after all, the main connection to the fuse. I am sure the 2 plywood sides would sandwich and hold the piece securely, but still... I want to make that area more secure with some reinforcement. I will post a picture of the fracture. It can be seen looking from the front of the fuse, and runs forward to back on the face of the strut that is glued to the inside ply gusset. It is only on that side of the strut, but it is there. So, I am thinking of lining the front and rear of the strut where the fracture is with a 1/8 x 7/8" wide, x 8" or so long plate. That should make that whole area surrounded with a "box" of plywood (the side of the fuse and the inside gusset, and the 2 plates) that would hold the tension stress of the wing trying to pull the strut apart at the fracture, like a tug-o-war. Thoughts? I wish I'd seen this before the strut was in place. I really don't want to try to cut that part out and replace it at this point unless I really have to for safety. It would almost be like fixing a cracked strut that was't fully broken in a landing or something... Thanks!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399085#399085 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should I do to fix this?? From: "Mark Roberts" Hi Again: So while painting the varnish on the plane's fuse members today, I discovered something I am very glad I found, but wish I'd have seen before I build the fuse sides. I cut all of my own longerons and cross pieces from raw, un-finished sitka. I cut over size then planed the pieces to the finished size. The vertical fuse strut that connects the bottom fuse longeron to the top longeron, the one that the front left cabane strut connects to, has a compression fracture in the wood about 4-5 inches from the top longeron. You can see it plainly. It is actually glued to the inside 1/8" ply front fuse gusset that lines the inside of the engine tray, but still, it's there plain to see. Dunno how I missed it when I was building it. So, if I was to pull on the top of the cabane strut connection and the bottom of the plane (as if in a tug-o-war.... OR a high G manuver), I could see this part wanting to separate right at that fracture. It is, after all, the main connection to the fuse. I am sure the 2 plywood sides would sandwich and hold the piece securely, but still... I want to make that area more secure with some reinforcement. I will post a picture of the fracture. It can be seen looking from the front of the fuse, and runs forward to back on the face of the strut that is glued to the inside ply gusset. It is only on that side of the strut, but it is there. So, I am thinking of lining the front and rear of the strut where the fracture is with a 1/8 x 7/8" wide, x 8" or so long plate. That should make that whole area surrounded with a "box" of plywood (the side of the fuse and the inside gusset, and the 2 plates) that would hold the tension stress of the wing trying to pull the strut apart at the fracture, like a tug-o-war. Thoughts? I wish I'd seen this before the strut was in place. I really don't want to try to cut that part out and replace it at this point unless I really have to for safety. It would almost be like fixing a cracked strut that was't fully broken in a landing or something... Thanks!! 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