---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/25/13: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:21 AM - Re: Re: Axle thickness? (Jack Phillips) 2. 03:25 AM - Re: Anyone near Beaumont TX? (John Franklin) 3. 03:51 AM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (DandD Boyd) 4. 05:17 AM - YouTube 1 hour Garmin 1000 Tutorial here--- (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 5. 06:06 AM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (tools) 6. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Axle thickness? (Craig Aho) 7. 07:34 AM - From: jorge lizarraga (jorge lizarraga) 8. 07:48 AM - Re: Axle thickness? (tools) 9. 08:58 AM - Re: Axle thickness? (nightmare) 10. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Axle thickness? (Craig Aho) 11. 09:07 AM - Re: Axle thickness? (tools) 12. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Jim Boyer) 13. 10:01 AM - Re: Ruddder Horn Repair (Jack) 14. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: Axle thickness? (gcardinal@comcast.net) 15. 12:20 PM - Re: Axle thickness? (Chris Rusch) 16. 12:44 PM - thick axel weight (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 17. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Axle thickness? (Craig Aho) 18. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: Axle thickness? (Jack Phillips) 19. 03:14 PM - Telegram (BYD) 20. 03:33 PM - Re: Telegram (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 21. 03:33 PM - Re: Telegram (Craig Aho) 22. 06:03 PM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Fun2av8) 23. 06:07 PM - Re: thick axel weight (Rick Schreiber) 24. 06:31 PM - Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Fun2av8) 25. 06:34 PM - Re: Telegram (Gary Boothe) 26. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam (Dick N) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:33 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? Yes. I had oxy-acetylene welded the pin into the axle, and probably had a small crack there which caused enough of a stress concentration to weaken the axle. But after it broke and I (belatedly) ran a stress analysis on the design I was surprised to see how highly loaded that configurtion is and concluded that it was a very marginal design. On my new axle I had a professional welder TIG weld the pins, then sent the whole assembly to Rex Heat Treating in Pennsylvania to be heat treated to 160,000 psi (normalized 4130 is good for 90,000 psi). Of course heat treating does not increase stiffness, so it still has a slight bow but not apparent to the eye (as Jerry Dotson said, you can see the bow with a straightedge). The bow is significatnly less than it was with the .120" wall. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:27 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? Hi Jack, Where did your axle fail? At the anti rotation add on? jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > That would be me. My original axle was 1-1/2" OD, .120 wall. My new axle > is 1-1/2" OD, .188 wall, heat treated after welding to 160,000 psi ultimate > strength. > > The thin wall axle is ok if you don't have brakes and the wheels are very > close to the V-blocks of the undercarriage. The problem comes when brakes > require moving the wheels further outboard, which dramatically increases the > moment applied to the axle. Add a stress riser, such as a guide pin to > prevent axle rotation, and you can find yourself in the same situation I > did. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399329#399329 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:58 AM PST US From: John Franklin Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone near Beaumont TX? Mark, I'm at Prairie Aire (4TA0) in Needville, TX. That's about 2.5 hours drive-time from Beaumont. Hans Vandervoort is near Waller TX at Skydive Airport, 37XA, that's about the same distance. You can travel a few hours further west and see Kevin Purtee near San Marcos, TX. If you're moving to Beaumont then you must be in the oil/refinery industry? John Franklin -----Original Message----- >From: Mark Roberts >MIGHT be looking at moving to Beaumont... Anyone near there? > >Mark ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam From: DandD Boyd Hey Jim, I've got shoulder straps (4-point) in mine. The straps are bolted to to longeron/verticals, reinforced, behind the rear seat and the belts come thru the seat back. Had one occassion to be glad they were there. Worked great. Dave On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:28 PM, Dick N wrote: > ** > Jim > I wasnt going to share this with anyone but I have already showed this pic > to a few guys from my EAA chapter so here it is. The point here is I had > landed and was fast taxiing down the runway and something happend and I ran > off the side of the runway into a snow bank. My point is my four point > harness held me just fine, I would have been injured with a simple 2 point > belt > Dick N. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Marcus Zechini > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 24, 2013 1:07 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam > > Jim: > While doing conditional, got a peek through inspection hole at how > shoulder half is attached. Mine come thru slits in fabric behind the seat. > I will pop in to CJR soon. > Zeke GN-1 C-85-12 "Rosie" > On Apr 24, 2013 2:02 PM, "Fun2av8" wrote: > >> >> I've seen several Piets and they do NOT have shoulder harnesses - just >> seat belts. Does anyone use a 4-point harness in the back seat or is it >> tradition to use only a lap belt? >> >> If you do use a harness, and if you had to install it after the Piet was >> built - would share how you did it? >> >> Mr. Sam has only a lap belt. I would like to add a four point harness - >> but since the seat back is built-in to the frame - there will have to be >> some serious wood cutting to install the shoulder harness. >> >> Thoughts and suggestions are welcome. >> >> -------- >> Jim McWhorter >> N687MB (New Owner) >> Culpeper, VA KCJR >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399290#399290 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:28 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: YouTube 1 hour Garmin 1000 Tutorial here--- Oscar, This video was posted by a very capable flight instructor and even a steam gauge guy like me was able to pickup quite a few things in just a few minutes from this gent. He fails to menti on if he flew in the military or not though. Mike C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0y6p0ct1m0 Dick Rochfort Dick Rochfort is a full-time Master Certified Flight Instructor providing t ype-specific, insurance-approved initial, recurrent and instructor standard ization training, buyer consulting, aircraft relocation and expert witness services to Piper PA46 (Matrix, Malibu, Mirage, and Meridian) owners, pilot s and instructors worldwide. He holds ATP and Gold Seal Flight Instructor Certificates with CFII, MEI, a nd CE-525S ratings. He has been actively involved in flight training as an instructor since 1991. Dick is an Aviation Safety Counselor for the FAA Baltimore Flight Standards District Office, a National Industry Member of the FAA Safety Team (FAAST) and a member of the FAA Wings Industry Advisory Committee. His training pr ogram is FITS (FAA Industry Training Standards) approved and FAA Wings appr oved and fully insured. He has held the National Association of Flight Inst ructors (NAFI) Master CFI designation for over 10 years. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam From: "tools" Hey Dick! REALLY sorry to see that, trust me, I know! Anyway, kinda ironic, I was going to make a post and have him ask YOU how you did your upper belt restraints (imagine they're the same in 2RN and 25RN?) with the cables back to the tailpost, as it seems like an easy retrofit and, as I can also attest, work really well. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399347#399347 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:09 AM PST US From: Craig Aho Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? I need to replace my old axel as I proceed to rebuild the wood gear=2C So I should at Least buy the heavier wall axel? I do not have the money to heat treat etc. so I will just go heavy. How much more weight is the thicker wa ll? Craig > From: jack@bedfordlandings.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? > Date: Thu=2C 25 Apr 2013 06:20:53 -0400 > gs.com> > > Yes. I had oxy-acetylene welded the pin into the axle=2C and probably ha d a > small crack there which caused enough of a stress concentration to weaken > the axle. But after it broke and I (belatedly) ran a stress analysis on the > design I was surprised to see how highly loaded that configurtion is and > concluded that it was a very marginal design. > > On my new axle I had a professional welder TIG weld the pins=2C then sent the > whole assembly to Rex Heat Treating in Pennsylvania to be heat treated to > 160=2C000 psi (normalized 4130 is good for 90=2C000 psi). Of course heat > treating does not increase stiffness=2C so it still has a slight bow but not > apparent to the eye (as Jerry Dotson said=2C you can see the bow with a > straightedge). The bow is significatnly less than it was with the .120" > wall. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rus ch > Sent: Wednesday=2C April 24=2C 2013 11:27 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? > om> > > Hi Jack=2C > > Where did your axle fail? At the anti rotation add on? > > > > > > > jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > > That would be me. My original axle was 1-1/2" OD=2C .120 wall. My new axle > > is 1-1/2" OD=2C .188 wall=2C heat treated after welding to 160=2C000 ps i > ultimate > > strength. > > > > The thin wall axle is ok if you don't have brakes and the wheels are ve ry > > close to the V-blocks of the undercarriage. The problem comes when bra kes > > require moving the wheels further outboard=2C which dramatically increa ses > the > > moment applied to the axle. Add a stress riser=2C such as a guide pin to > > prevent axle rotation=2C and you can find yourself in the same situatio n I > > did. > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia > > > > -- > > > -------- > NX321LR > Fully Assembled > Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. > Wings covered and primed=2C one painted > Mitsubishi Powered > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399329#399329 > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:35 AM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Pietenpol-List: From: jorge lizarraga http://www.saba50.org/firstp.php =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ..... jorge lizarraga ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? From: "tools" Hey Craig, Something to consider if you don't want to heat treat, is buying a tube already in the state you want and then use a method that doesn't require welding on the tube. 2RN has a 3/16 wall tube, but it has 1" solid inserts that go through the 1" ID bearings in the wheels (not sure of your setup). I imagine the 1" inserts (which have a 1/16 wall sleeve to make up the difference between 1 1/2OD, 1 1/8ID - 3/16 wall) do strengthen things up a bit more. Also has a free floating plate with the brake calipers. Anti rotation is via short cables so no welding is required. It's been stressed enough to severely bend up a wheel with no ill effects on the axle, so it's a proven system. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399359#399359 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? From: "nightmare" Tools: any pics or drawing of your setup. Especially curious about the floating disc and cable antirotation system. Did you weld some tabs on axle to attach cables? Jack; ive only found the smaller diameter "weldable axle stubs". Couple of questions: 1. Is the weldable axle stub a good way to go? (Or one piece axle) 2. If I cant find a threaded axle in the thicker wall. Is it acceptable to use a plumbers type of pipe threader to do it myself. No lathe. Here is what I had in mind from harbor freight.http://www.harborfreight.com/3-8-eighth-inch-to-2-inch-ratcheting-pipe-threader-set-94098.html -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399363#399363 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:22 AM PST US From: Craig Aho Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? I will have to look at that setup. My wire wheel hubs are designed to slip on to the 1.5" axel. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? > From: n0kkj@yahoo.com > Date: Thu=2C 25 Apr 2013 07:48:13 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Hey Craig=2C > > Something to consider if you don't want to heat treat=2C is buying a tube already in the state you want and then use a method that doesn't require w elding on the tube. > > 2RN has a 3/16 wall tube=2C but it has 1" solid inserts that go through t he 1" ID bearings in the wheels (not sure of your setup). I imagine the 1" inserts (which have a 1/16 wall sleeve to make up the difference between 1 1/2OD=2C 1 1/8ID - 3/16 wall) do strengthen things up a bit more. Also ha s a free floating plate with the brake calipers. Anti rotation is via shor t cables so no welding is required. > > It's been stressed enough to severely bend up a wheel with no ill effects on the axle=2C so it's a proven system. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399359#399359 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? From: "tools" Well, there's no reason the setup couldn't be the same, except the free floating caliper holder would be over the 1 1/2" axle. IF you wanted the extra strength (but I really think you wouldn't) you could still slip in a short solid stub. I'll be in GA (where my plane is) in a week or so. If you want, I'll get some good close up pics of the setup. Just let me know. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399366#399366 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:51 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam HI Dick, Sorry to see your Piet nose up in the snow bank. Hope the damage was minimal; probably the prop though. Jim B. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ruddder Horn Repair From: Jack Andy the link said page not found Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Apr 24, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Andre Abreu wrote : > The Rudder Horn on 6186L broke. > We removed it from the aircraft and made a repair... just in time for flyi ng season. > > Here are some pictures. > http://http://tinyurl.com/aqe27h3 > > Andy Abreu > KTDZ > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:40 AM PST US From: gcardinal@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? 1 1/2 X .120 = 1.770 lbs. per foot. 1 1/2 X .188 = 2.636 lbs. per foot. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Aho" Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:12:57 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? I need to=C2-replace=C2-my old axel as I proceed to rebuild the wood=C2 -gear, So I should at Least buy the heavier wall axel? I do not have the money to heat treat etc. so I will just go heavy. How much more weight is t he thicker wall? =C2- Craig =C2- > From: jack@bedfordlandings.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? > Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 06:20:53 -0400 > gs.com> > > Yes. I had oxy-acetylene welded the pin into the axle, and probably had a > small crack there which caused enough of a stress concentration to weaken > the axle. But after it broke and I (belatedly) ran a stress analysis on t he > design I was surprised to see how highly loaded that configurtion is and > concluded that it was a very marginal design. > > On my new axle I had a professional welder TIG weld the pins, then sent t he > whole assembly to Rex Heat Treating in Pennsylvania to be heat treated to > 160,000 psi (normalized 4130 is good for 90,000 psi). Of course heat > treating does not increase stiffness, so it still has a slight bow but no t > apparent to the eye (as Jerry Dotson said, you can see the bow with a > straightedge). The bow is significatnly less than it was with the .120" > wall. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rus ch > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:27 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? > om> > > Hi Jack, > > Where did your axle fail? At the anti rotation add on? > > > > > > > jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote: > > That would be me. My original axle was 1-1/2" OD, .120 wall. My new axl e > > is 1-1/2" OD, .188 wall, heat treated after welding to 160,000 psi > ultimate > > strength. > > > > The thin wall axle is ok if you don't have brakes and the wheels are ve ry > > close to the V-blocks of the undercarriage. The problem comes when brak es > > require moving the wheels further outboard, which dramatically increase s > the > > moment applied to the axle. Add a stress riser, such as a guide pin to > > prevent axle rotation, and you can find yourself in the same situation I > > did. > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > > -- > > > -------- > NX321LR > Fully Assembled > Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. > Wings covered and primed, one painted > Mitsubishi Powered > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399329#399329 > > > > > > > > > > > > &========= > > > == ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:37 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? From: "Chris Rusch" Almost a 5 lb weight penalty... [quote="gcardinal(at)comcast.net"]1 1/2 X .120 = 1.770 lbs. per foot. 1 1/2 X .188 = 2.636 lbs. per foot. Greg Cardinal From: "Craig Aho" Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:12:57 AM Subject: RE: Re: Axle thickness? I need to replace my old axel as I proceed to rebuild the wood gear, So I should at Least buy the heavier wall axel? I do not have the money to heat treat etc. so I will just go heavy. How much more weight is the thicker wall? Craig > From: jack@bedfordlandings.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Re: Axle thickness? > Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 06:20:53 -0400 > > > Yes. I had oxy-acetylene welded the pin into the axle, and probably had a > small crack there which caused enough of a stress concentration to weaken > the axle. But after it broke and I (belatedly) ran a stress analysis on the > design I was surprised to see how highly loaded that configurtion is and > concluded that it was a very marginal design. > > On my new axle I had a professional welder TIG weld the pins, then sent the > whole assembly to Rex Heat Treating in Pennsylvania to be heat treated to > 160,000 psi (normalized 4130 is good for 90,000 psi). Of course heat > treating does not increase stiffness, so it still has a slight bow but not > apparent to the eye (as Jerry Dotson said, you can see the bow with a > straightedge). The bow is significatnly less than it was with the .120" > wall. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399381#399381 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:29 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: thick axel weight Chris, Thank you for doing the thick axel weight calculation. Even with my thick-walled axel my empty weight came out to 632 lbs. so you can still build a decent weight Piet with that and a 3-piece wing like I have. I've had quite a few hard landings over the years and I'm pleased that the axel has stood my tests these past couple hundred hours. One item I'd like to add is that I believe it to be important to keep the X brace cables under the belly of the Jenny type gear very tight. I had some slight loosening of those cables a few years ago and didn't catch it on my preflights like I should have so the gear was flexing just a touch over time and in time it broke the bent tabs on one end of one of my spreader bars. I replaced both spreader bars w/ new. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:20 PM PST US From: Craig Aho Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? Thank you tools=2C I would appreciate seeing your setup as I am having a bi t of trouble visualizing. Thanks to all on this subject matter the discussi on is helping me. I am currently working on the landing gear so it is total ly pertinent. Craig > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? > From: n0kkj@yahoo.com > Date: Thu=2C 25 Apr 2013 09:07:30 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Well=2C there's no reason the setup couldn't be the same=2C except the fr ee floating caliper holder would be over the 1 1/2" axle. > > IF you wanted the extra strength (but I really think you wouldn't) you co uld still slip in a short solid stub. > > I'll be in GA (where my plane is) in a week or so. If you want=2C I'll g et some good close up pics of the setup. Just let me know. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399366#399366 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:50 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? When I rebuilt my Pietenpol after the accident, it gained 5.5 lbs. In addition to the axle weight added, I added some weight in the tail rebuilding the broken lower right longeron, but I saved some weight by changing from a leaf spring tailwheel to the BHP swinging A-Arm type. My axle is 7 feet long, so I added 6.06 lbs to the axle. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Axle thickness? Almost a 5 lb weight penalty... [quote="gcardinal(at)comcast.net"]1 1/2 X .120 = 1.770 lbs. per foot. 1 1/2 X .188 = 2.636 lbs. per foot. Greg Cardinal From: "Craig Aho" Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 9:12:57 AM Subject: RE: Re: Axle thickness? I need to replace my old axel as I proceed to rebuild the wood gear, So I should at Least buy the heavier wall axel? I do not have the money to heat treat etc. so I will just go heavy. How much more weight is the thicker wall? Craig > From: jack@bedfordlandings.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Re: Axle thickness? > Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 06:20:53 -0400 > > > Yes. I had oxy-acetylene welded the pin into the axle, and probably had a > small crack there which caused enough of a stress concentration to weaken > the axle. But after it broke and I (belatedly) ran a stress analysis on the > design I was surprised to see how highly loaded that configurtion is and > concluded that it was a very marginal design. > > On my new axle I had a professional welder TIG weld the pins, then sent the > whole assembly to Rex Heat Treating in Pennsylvania to be heat treated to > 160,000 psi (normalized 4130 is good for 90,000 psi). Of course heat > treating does not increase stiffness, so it still has a slight bow but not > apparent to the eye (as Jerry Dotson said, you can see the bow with a > straightedge). The bow is significatnly less than it was with the .120" > wall. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -- -------- NX321LR Fully Assembled Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted. Wings covered and primed, one painted Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399381#399381 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Telegram From: "BYD" FYI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399393#399393 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/telegraph_one_177.jpg ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:27 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Telegram Way to go Bill---you're going to love it even more once you have your first flight! Love the old-fashioned telegram message! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:59 PM PST US From: Craig Aho Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Telegram Wow another neighbor with a Pietenpol. I look forward to hearing all about it. Craig > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Telegram > From: billsayre@ymail.com > Date: Thu=2C 25 Apr 2013 15:14:20 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > FYI > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399393#399393 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/telegraph_one_177.jpg > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam From: "Fun2av8" First Flight in Mr. Sam .... Magic, just plain and simple, Pure Magic. Finally hooked up with Chuck Tippet this afternoon. He was pressed for time - so we had just enough time to do three patterns and landings. What a great feeling - open cockpit is the way to go. Reminds me so much of my days flying a Stearman at the Flying Circus. Piet felt solid and steady in all phases of flight. That O-200 has some kick ! Tomorrow we will finish up the insurance requirement for 5 landings to a full stop. Then I'm off on my own. I can hear the wild blue yonder calling me ...... :-) -------- Jim McWhorter N687MB (New Owner) Culpeper, VA KCJR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399398#399398 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:58 PM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: thick axel weight On 4/25/2013 2:44 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > > Chris, > > Thank you for doing the thick axel weight calculation. > > Even with my thick-walled axel my empty weight came out to 632 lbs. so you can still build a decent weight > Piet with that and a 3-piece wing like I have. > > I've had quite a few hard landings over the years and I'm pleased that the axel has stood my tests these past > couple hundred hours. > > One item I'd like to add is that I believe it to be important to keep the X brace cables under the belly of the Jenny > type gear very tight. I had some slight loosening of those cables a few years ago and didn't catch it on my preflights > like I should have so the gear was flexing just a touch over time and in time it broke the bent tabs on one end of one > of my spreader bars. I replaced both spreader bars w/ new. > > Mike C. > > Good information Mike! I'll be sure to keep track of mine. Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam From: "Fun2av8" For those of you flying with an O-200 - do these look about right? Airspeed Limitations Never Exceed Speed (Vne).......................100 mph 75% Power 3000 ft. MSL, 2000 RPM................70 mph 65% Power 3000 ft. MSL, 1900 RPM................60 mph 55% Power 3000 ft. MSL, 1800 RPM................55 mph Rate of Climb at Sea Level, Gross Weight.......400 fpm Takeoff Performance Ground Roll Sod................................450 ft Ground Roll Pavement...........................400 ft Total Distance over 50 ft Obstacle.............1,500 ft Landing Performance Ground Roll......................................400 ft Distance over 50 ft. Obstacle (estimated........1200 ft Stall speed, Power Off..........................30 mph AirSpeed Limitations Vne Never Exceed Speed......................90 mph Vno Maximum Structural Cruising Speed.......70 mph Va Maneuvering Speed @ 1150 lbs............60 mph Vr Rotation Speed..........................55 mph Vs Stall Speed.............................30 mph Vy Best Rate of Climb......................65 mph Vx Best Angle of Climb.....................50 mph Vmpg Best Economical Cruise Speed............70 mph Vg Maximum Glide Distance Power Off......55 mph Vef Engine Failure after Take Off Speed.....65 mph AirSpeed Markings Green Arc...................................30 - 80 mph Yellow Arc..................................80 - 100 mph -------- Jim McWhorter N687MB (New Owner) Culpeper, VA KCJR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399400#399400 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:40 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Telegram The CAA hasn't made it to California yet. Very nice, Bill!!! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Telegram FYI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399393#399393 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/telegraph_one_177.jpg ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:58 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam HI Mike My belts attach to the tail wheel with a cable that goes forward to about where the bell crank is. Both sides of the seat belts attach and the shoulder harness attaches to the same point. If anyone is interested I can send a couple of pics. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tools" Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Pietenpol named Mr. Sam > > Hey Dick! > > REALLY sorry to see that, trust me, I know! Anyway, kinda ironic, I was > going to make a post and have him ask YOU how you did your upper belt > restraints (imagine they're the same in 2RN and 25RN?) with the cables > back to the tailpost, as it seems like an easy retrofit and, as I can also > attest, work really well. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399347#399347 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.