Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:05 AM - Re: Re: Piet Props (M. Zeke Zechini)
2. 06:28 AM - Re: Piet Props (AircamperN11MS)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: Re: Piet Props (Marcus Zechini)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: axle bending (CraigAho)
5. 08:16 AM - Early spring flight (Douwe Blumberg)
6. 08:26 AM - Update from: Corky's Rib Building (Isablcorky@aol.com)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: Simplicity wins... again... (aerocarjake)
8. 09:08 AM - Axle bending (helspersew@aol.com)
9. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: axle bending (Jack Phillips)
10. 09:37 AM - Re: Axle bending (Jack Phillips)
11. 09:59 AM - Re: Update from: Corky's Rib Building (jarheadpilot82)
12. 12:06 PM - Re: axle bending (Chris Rusch)
13. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: axle bending (Craig Aho)
14. 02:15 PM - Re: Early spring flight (Don Emch)
15. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: axle bending (Jack Phillips)
16. 03:18 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Jim Boyer)
17. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: axle bending (helspersew@aol.com)
18. 03:53 PM - early spring flight (Douwe Blumberg)
19. 04:00 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Ray Krause)
20. 04:05 PM - Wooden strut metal fittings - help (Jim Quinn)
21. 04:07 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (gboothe5@comcast.net)
22. 05:24 PM - Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help (Bill Church)
23. 05:27 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (tools)
24. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help (Jim Quinn)
25. 05:56 PM - Re: Piet Props (taildrags)
26. 06:02 PM - Re: Early spring flight (TriScout)
27. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Piet Props (M. Zeke Zechini)
28. 06:10 PM - Emailing: piet fittings (Jim Quinn)
29. 06:14 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Bill Church)
30. 06:35 PM - Re: Emailing: piet fittings (Gary Boothe)
31. 07:09 PM - Re: Emailing: piet fittings (tools)
32. 07:17 PM - Re: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help (Jim Boyer)
33. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: Emailing: piet fittings (gboothe5@comcast.net)
34. 07:35 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Jim Boyer)
35. 07:37 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Jim Boyer)
36. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Jim Boyer)
37. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Jim Boyer)
38. 08:10 PM - Re: Emailing: piet fittings (tools)
39. 08:16 PM - Re: Emailing: piet fittings (tools)
40. 09:10 PM - Re: Emailing: piet fittings (Bill Church)
41. 09:13 PM - Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help (Bill Church)
Message 1
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Thanks, Lorin. I need this kind of info. I am new to Piets! Every one a little
different. I want to be sure ofwhat I am doing. Getting scales soon. Will try
a couple other props, I think.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 29, 2013, at 11:02 PM, "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com> wrote:
>
> Marcus,
> I've got a GN-1 with an A-75 in it. It's got a metal McCauley 74x39 on it. WOT
is 2500rpm at around 85mph indicated. Climb is pretty good. I typically cruise
at about 2250 rpm, burn at that rate is around 4.5 - 5 gallon per hour, speed
around 75mph.
>
> Your cruise of 80 kts (92mph) seams a little fast to me - but I guess it is possible.
I'm not really comfortable in my plane at 90+mph though, it buffets me
around too much.
> Lorin
>
> --------
> Lorin Miller
> Waiex N81YX
> GN-1 N30PP
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399641#399641
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Marcus,
Your numbers are very close to mine. I can pull 2550 at WOT. My airspeed indicates
93 MPH At 3000 MSL. With the C-85 I can get the fuel burn down to 5 GPH
if I run the engine between 2200 and 2275 While flying solo. I can't do that
with two people on board. I need to carry about 2350 or more with a 150lb passenger.
Mt fuel burn is close to 6 GPH at gross weight.
You may be propped very close to what you need.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399657#399657
Message 3
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Thanks, Scott. The more I think about it, the more I believe it. Bugged me
that the Cub was keeping up,...but...I AM part Cub.
I may have othe fuel burn issue, but throttling back may be my
answer.....will need to do more testing! On it!
On Apr 30, 2013 9:31 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
> Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Marcus,
>
> Your numbers are very close to mine. I can pull 2550 at WOT. My airspeed
> indicates 93 MPH At 3000 MSL. With the C-85 I can get the fuel burn down
> to 5 GPH if I run the engine between 2200 and 2275 While flying solo. I
> can't do that with two people on board. I need to carry about 2350 or more
> with a 150lb passenger. Mt fuel burn is close to 6 GPH at gross weight.
>
> You may be propped very close to what you need.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399657#399657
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: axle bending |
I was wondering if one could take a piece of angle steel and insert down the middle
of the tube for bending resistance or how about welding the piece on the
bottom outside of an Axel you are already using? Also can anyone advise on the
anti rotation pin and receiving tube. the thickness of the bracket attached to
the wood bottom piece is about 16 guage so should the receiver tube be the same
wall thickness? Thanks for the feedback.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399663#399663
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| Subject: | Early spring flight |
To celebrate the end of phase I testing, I went for an early morning flight
and watched the ground fog burn off. Absolutely gorgeous! Put simple tape
on the prop and it sounded quieter until the ends flew off. It was old. Am
getting fresh from ace.
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Update from: Corky's Rib Building |
Pieters,
Progress is the word. Jig completed. This is the original design by Mr
Pietenpol. Those interested in a set of ribs will have to inform me whether a
one piece wing or 3 piece. Choice of 1/2X1/4 or 3/8X1/4 cap strip. The
material will be premium selected Douglas Fir from Washington state. Kiln dried,
tight vertical grains. A 3/8 width will be much stronger than a 1/2 spruce
and near the same weight. All will be 3/8X1/4 unless requested otherwise.
T-88 glue used. Also, decide whether you are using 1in or 3/4in spars.
If interested parties will respond to this letter I would appreciate it so
I might make my plans.
Going in Tuesday so they can whittle on my heart a bit. If you don't hear
from me by the 8th or 9th then you best start looking for another rib
company
Corky
Chief honcho
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Simplicity wins... again... |
Awesome post - thanks..... Finishing a kitchen remodel and estate/family details
on this end. Should be back to the Piet in a couple weeks. This kind of post
helps...
Do not archive
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399671#399671
Message 8
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Never got a response to this. Any thoughts or opinions at all?
Is a slight bending of the straight axle inherently bad? I can't remember w
hich thickness I used, but after all the welding I had it magnafluxed. And
then last year I did some additional welding of those bungee "dams" that I
added. After that I noticed the wheels are canted a bit inward, caused by t
he warping from the heat. This did not seem to affect performance at all wi
th all those rides I gave at Brodhead last year. Any thoughts?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: axle bending |
I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees
yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easily
measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in
place.
As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to
.090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and the
guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never
had the axle bind in the guide tubes.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CraigAho
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:04 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending
I was wondering if one could take a piece of angle steel and insert down the
middle of the tube for bending resistance or how about welding the piece on
the bottom outside of an Axel you are already using? Also can anyone advise
on the anti rotation pin and receiving tube. the thickness of the bracket
attached to the wood bottom piece is about 16 guage so should the receiver
tube be the same wall thickness? Thanks for the feedback.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399663#399663
Message 10
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No
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axle bending
Never got a response to this. Any thoughts or opinions at all?
Is a slight bending of the straight axle inherently bad? I can't remember
which thickness I used, but after all the welding I had it magnafluxed. And
then last year I did some additional welding of those bungee "dams" that I
added. After that I noticed the wheels are canted a bit inward, caused by
the warping from the heat. This did not seem to affect performance at all
with all those rides I gave at Brodhead last year. Any thoughts?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Update from: Corky's Rib Building |
Corky,
Best wishes on the "whittlin'", and I fully expect to hear more about the business
long past the 8th or 9th.
Keep us posted!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399678#399678
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: axle bending |
I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130, but i drilled THRU the
complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how you did yours?
completely thru or just welded to the outside?
jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote:
> I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees
> yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easily
> measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in
> place.
>
> As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to
> .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and the
> guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never
> had the axle bind in the guide tubes.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> --
--------
NX321LR
Fully Assembled
Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.
Wings covered and primed, one painted
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: axle bending |
I was noticing on my wood gear plan from Don Pietenpol and 1932 FGM that th
e axel is 12 guage wich is .109 wall so .120 is already larger. On my plan
from Don he included a stickum note saying "Don't use this" I guess he was
not a fan of the wood gear. I spent the morning trying to find out if I co
uld straighten out my old Axel so I could use my old brake setup etc. but i
t looks like it is not at all practicle so I will put my order in for the n
ew axel. My Vee fittings are the 16 guage per the plan which is kind of (1/
16") thin. I plan to use the vertical Pin setup like so many are now using
and I first saw on Mike Cuys ship. Thanks for the feedback on the pins etc.
I was thinking that the receiver tube welded to the V fitting would only b
e as strong as the thickness of that fitting so I hope that the setup will
work for me. I like the looks of the system. still deciding on the brakes a
llthough my wheels are setup for the 4.5" drums which seemed to work ok. I
keep trying to remember what my train of thought was back 20 years ago when
I started my first Air Camper because I seem to have so much more to think
about with many details I dont think I considered back in the past. I just
followed the plan and 2 yrs later I was completed and ended up with a nice
Piet. I hope this one turns out even better. Craig
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending
> From: rmdinfo@rmdbenders.com
> Date: Tue=2C 30 Apr 2013 12:05:43 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
om>
>
> I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130=2C but i drilled
THRU the complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how y
ou did yours? completely thru or just welded to the outside?
>
>
>
>
>
> jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote:
> > I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees
> > yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have eas
ily
> > measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees
in
> > place.
> >
> > As I recall=2C I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing=2C welde
d to
> > .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and
the
> > guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've nev
er
> > had the axle bind in the guide tubes.
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > NX899JP
> > Smith Mountain Lake=2C Virginia
> >
> > --
>
>
> --------
> NX321LR
> Fully Assembled
> Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.
> Wings covered and primed=2C one painted
> Mitsubishi Powered
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Early spring flight |
Douwe,
There is nothing quite like early morning flying above low laying fog. It's just
indescribable and makes ya wonder why you're so fortunate to be the one up
there taking it all in.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399702#399702
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: axle bending |
I drilled completely through and passed the tube through and welded top and
bottom
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending
I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130, but i drilled THRU
the complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how you did
yours? completely thru or just welded to the outside?
jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote:
> I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees
> yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easily
> measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in
> place.
>
> As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to
> .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and
the
> guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never
> had the axle bind in the guide tubes.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> --
--------
NX321LR
Fully Assembled
Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.
Wings covered and primed, one painted
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
I have a question for those who have flying Piets or at least completed wings for
Piets.
I am laying out my wing spars and am using the new lift strut fittings shown on
the supplemental plans. In the two pictures you can see how much of the fitting
hangs over the lower edge of the spar when laying on the spar at approximately
a 45 degree angle (which is to the new fitting drawing). It is about 3 1/4
inches overhang.
Have I missed something or is that okay? I will be using the Carlson aluminium
lift struts and to me it looks like an excessive overhang.
How much overhang on the lower edge of the spar are your lift strut fittings?
Thanks,
Jim B.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: axle bending |
Me too.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 30, 2013 4:35 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending
.com>
I drilled completely through and passed the tube through and welded top and
bottom
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending
>
I made my anti rotation tubes from 3/4 x .120 wall 4130, but i drilled THRU
the complete axle and welded in the tube top and bottom. Is that how you di
d
yours? completely thru or just welded to the outside?
jack(at)bedfordlandings.c wrote:
> I wish you had asked this question yesterday. I changed my bungees
> yesterday as part of my annual Condition Inspection and could have easil
y
> measured the guide pins and guide tubes. Not so easy with the bungees in
> place.
>
> As I recall, I made the guide tubes out of .045" wall tubing, welded to
> .090" sheet V-fitting. There is substantial slop between the tubes and
the
> guide pins to allow for axle motion. It works well enough and I've never
> had the axle bind in the guide tubes.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> --
--------
NX321LR
Fully Assembled
Tail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.
Wings covered and primed, one painted
Mitsubishi Powered
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399694#399694
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| Subject: | early spring flight |
First off, sorry about my earlier post. I didn't put "simple tape" on my
prop. I put "DIMPLE TAPE" on my prop.
Secondly, for those interested, here's a video of this morning's flight. It
was so smooth she felt like she was on rails! Really a pretty flight with
the ground fog and the dark bluegrass green coming out. CREATION ROCKS!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?vUVGVbqn2c
Douwe
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
Jim,
Don't for get you have to clear the rib cap strip and covering. Then you hav
e to allow for free movement of the strut bracket. The important measurement
is the distance from the center of the hole vertically to where the bracket
will attach, you will need bout an inch, I think. I had to re-make mine a
fter the wing was done.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Jim Boyer <boyerjrb@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I have a question for those who have flying Piets or at least completed wi
ngs for Piets.
>
>
>
> I am laying out my wing spars and am using the new lift strut fittings sho
wn on the supplemental plans. In the two pictures you can see how much of th
e fitting hangs over the lower edge of the spar when laying on the spar at a
pproximately a 45 degree angle (which is to the new fitting drawing). It is a
bout 3 1/4 inches overhang.
>
>
>
> Have I missed something or is that okay? I will be using the Carlson alumi
nium lift struts and to me it looks like an excessive overhang.
>
>
>
> How much overhang on the lower edge of the spar are your lift strut fittin
gs?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim B.
>
>
>
> <wing lift strut fittings on spars.JPG>
> <Lift Strut Fittings.JPG>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Wooden strut metal fittings - help |
I've made a mock-up of the wooden struts for my Piet, made the lower
fittings, inside and out, according to the plans. They don't come close
to fitting properly. I then made some fottings out of aluminum foil to
re-fit things. That works except I had to move the angles that go up the
struts inward a good 1 1/2". that seems like way too much.
Does anyone have good drawings or dimensions for these fittings? Any
help would be greatly appreciated!!!
Jim Quinn
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
I think the consensus is that more (more than the original plans) is better. Go
with what you have!
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyer, Jim" <boyerjrb@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:16:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars
I have a question for those who have flying Piets or at least completed wings for
Piets.
I am laying out my wing spars and am using the new lift strut fittings shown on
the supplemental plans. In the two pictures you can see how much of the fitting
hangs over the lower edge of the spar when laying on the spar at approximately
a 45 degree angle (which is to the new fitting drawing). It is about 3 1/4
inches overhang.
Have I missed something or is that okay? I will be using the Carlson aluminium
lift struts and to me it looks like an excessive overhang.
How much overhang on the lower edge of the spar are your lift strut fittings?
Thanks,
Jim B.
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| Subject: | Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help |
Jim,
I'm having a hard time figuring out what parts you're talking about. When you
say wooden struts, are you referring to the landing gear? What plans are you
working from? Maybe if you snapped a couple of photos to illustrate your problems,
and posted them, it might make it easier to understand.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399718#399718
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
The issue that comes into play is whether you can get the pin in from the top,
which is the general preference as it cannot fall out as easily.
I have a few spots where it HAS to go in from the bottom for clearance reasons.
A little longer is better. For all flying purposes, these are in tension, so
the little longer cantilever isn't a big deal.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399719#399719
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| Subject: | Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help |
Hi Bill,
Thanks and yes, the landing gear. Working on the pics,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Jim,
> I'm having a hard time figuring out what parts you're talking about. When
> you say wooden struts, are you referring to the landing gear? What plans
> are you working from? Maybe if you snapped a couple of photos to
> illustrate your problems, and posted them, it might make it easier to
> understand.
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399718#399718
>
>
>
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Marcus;
One way you could set sort of a benchmark is to just go out for an hour with a
full tank, climb to about 1500-2000', and set power to cruise at about 70 MPH
indicated. Fly around and have fun at that cruise setting and altitude more or
less, and an hour later, top off the tank again and see how much you burned.
I'm guessing it will be 4.5 to a max of 5 gallons.
41CC started life with a metal prop on the A65. I'll have to dig out the logs
to see what the prop was. It's never had a metal prop since I've owned it, though.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399723#399723
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| Subject: | Re: Early spring flight |
Hi Douwe,
Nice flight. Where does one go for dimple tape?.. Ace Hardware? I saw an article
in an old Piet bulleting a yr or two ago. ..wouldn't mind trying it. Thx
Larry
N2308C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399724#399724
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Oscar, I Like the plan. I should have watched what I was doing last Sat., but
had too much fun flying!
Right now, after checking McCauley application chart, I think I want to re- pitch
my prop to get just a little more bite... not a lot. I do like wood, though.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 30, 2013, at 8:56 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Marcus;
>
> One way you could set sort of a benchmark is to just go out for an hour with
a full tank, climb to about 1500-2000', and set power to cruise at about 70 MPH
indicated. Fly around and have fun at that cruise setting and altitude more
or less, and an hour later, top off the tank again and see how much you burned.
I'm guessing it will be 4.5 to a max of 5 gallons.
>
> 41CC started life with a metal prop on the A65. I'll have to dig out the logs
to see what the prop was. It's never had a metal prop since I've owned it,
though.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399723#399723
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Emailing: piet fittings |
Hi Bill,
Here's a pic. Cut pieces on the bottom, inside and outside fittings for
the wooden landing gear. My foil cut-outs are on top.
I'm using plans purchased from the Pietenpol family, a one page
supplement.
Thanks,
Jim
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
piet fittings
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
Jim,
Something doesn't look right. The bottom bolt hole looks to be too close to the
edge of the spar. I just drew up the lift strut bracket, with the dimensions
shown in the supplemental plans, using CAD, and superimposed it on a 4 3/4"
spar, using whatever angle the dimensions resulted in. Turns out to be about
39. I printed the drawing with a scale of 1:1, and scanned it. As you can see,
it looks a little different from yours. I wonder if your miter angle at the
top of the bracket is off. You should be able to print a full scale copy of
the drawing on 8 1/2" x 11" paper, to compare.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399726#399726
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/lift_strut_fitting_165.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: piet fittings |
Jim,
Although my fittings are to the plans, it is my understanding that most buil
ders adjust the fittings to fit their gear, especially in consideration of t
he gear changes one may make in line with William Wynne's findings on axle p
lacement.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 30, 2013, at 6:09 PM, "Jim Quinn" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> Here's a pic. Cut pieces on the bottom, inside and outside fittings for th
e wooden landing gear. My foil cut-outs are on top.
>
> I'm using plans purchased from the Pietenpol family, a one page supplement
.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
> The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachment
s:
> piet fittings
>
ding or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail secu
> <piet fittings.JPG>
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: piet fittings |
Ok, the pictures help tons, now I see what you're talking about.
If you were to keep the angles to plans on the bottoms of the struts, it would
change the angle at the top by a practically negligible amount...
By the way, when I say "to the plans", don't take this too seriously. I assume
you made the upper angles "to the plans" as close as you could. If you made
them PERFECTLY, the plans themselves could be off enough to cause this, just because
a piece of paper 20 x 30" can change a quarter of an inch because of humidity...
So, consider this. The gear strut geometry at the bottom is probably more critical,
because the spacing between the pieces allows room for the axle. I'd consider
making the angles fit your metal pieces, then adjust where they hit the
fuselage, in the angle, not where the fittings hit the fuse as they are where
they are for strength reasons.
Compound angle stuff is VERY difficult. TINY errors (pencil widths, imperfect
calibration of machine miter gages, etc...) add up VERY quickly. I make some
wooden puzzles that require angles to be cut accurately to the minute... Despite
a BUNCH of really really accurate tools (think machinist Brown and Sharpe
stuff accurate to tenths of minutes, ten thousandths of an inch...) in the end,
angles get set by making multiple cuts, adding up the parts to find compounding
errors and making empirical adjustments until the parts just fit.
If you can get the parts to fit perfectly on the lower (near the axle end) perfectly,
and with a gap about a 1/4" or less at the fuselage end, then you're in
a position where you can adjust those ends to fit perfectly (which is necessary),
then overall gear geometry will be fine.
If there's a gap, then you transfer the gap dimension onto the strut every quarter
of an inch, then just sand, pare with a chisel, whatever method you're most
comfortable with, to your new line.
That new line should taper from the max gap dimension where the parts touch, to
nothing where the gap is the greatest... does that make sense? It's a method
of fitting generally known as "scribing". It's closely related to "coping".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399730#399730
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| Subject: | Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help |
HI Bill,
I did a ttach two photos of the lift strut fittings that are about 80 inches out
from the wing root; didn't they go through?
Jim B.
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: piet fittings |
"...So, consider this. The gear strut geometry at the bottom is probably more critical,
because the spacing between the pieces allows room for the axle. I'd
consider making the angles fit your metal pieces, then adjust where they hit the
fuselage, in the angle, not where the fittings hit the fuse as they are where
they are for strength reasons."
I'm not sure Tools really meant to say this. Obviously, the struts 'hit' the fuselage
where the fittings are located. Those points are fixed. You next decide
where you want the axle, and how long the legs are (determines your deck angle).
The angles will be the resulting factor. You can make the metal fittings to
fit those angles.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:09:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Emailing: piet fittings
Ok, the pictures help tons, now I see what you're talking about.
If you were to keep the angles to plans on the bottoms of the struts, it would
change the angle at the top by a practically negligible amount...
By the way, when I say "to the plans", don't take this too seriously. I assume
you made the upper angles "to the plans" as close as you could. If you made them
PERFECTLY, the plans themselves could be off enough to cause this, just because
a piece of paper 20 x 30" can change a quarter of an inch because of humidity...
So, consider this. The gear strut geometry at the bottom is probably more critical,
because the spacing between the pieces allows room for the axle. I'd consider
making the angles fit your metal pieces, then adjust where they hit the fuselage,
in the angle, not where the fittings hit the fuse as they are where they
are for strength reasons.
Compound angle stuff is VERY difficult. TINY errors (pencil widths, imperfect calibration
of machine miter gages, etc...) add up VERY quickly. I make some wooden
puzzles that require angles to be cut accurately to the minute... Despite
a BUNCH of really really accurate tools (think machinist Brown and Sharpe stuff
accurate to tenths of minutes, ten thousandths of an inch...) in the end, angles
get set by making multiple cuts, adding up the parts to find compounding
errors and making empirical adjustments until the parts just fit.
If you can get the parts to fit perfectly on the lower (near the axle end) perfectly,
and with a gap about a 1/4" or less at the fuselage end, then you're in
a position where you can adjust those ends to fit perfectly (which is necessary),
then overall gear geometry will be fine.
If there's a gap, then you transfer the gap dimension onto the strut every quarter
of an inch, then just sand, pare with a chisel, whatever method you're most
comfortable with, to your new line.
That new line should taper from the max gap dimension where the parts touch, to
nothing where the gap is the greatest... does that make sense? It's a method
of fitting generally known as "scribing". It's closely related to "coping".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399730#399730
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
Thanks Ray,
I went out and measured 2 1 /8 inches on the fitting center line from the s
trut mounting hole to the edge of the spar.
Considering the=C2-clearance for the bolt and strut I think I will just c
hange the angle a little to make the bottom fitting hole farther up into th
e spar.
Jim B.
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
Thanks Gary,
Think I will just move slightly to make bottom fitting hole more into the spar
and leave it alone.
Jim B.
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
Thanks Tools, the list has been very helpful. Think I will leave them as is except
for slight move to make lower hole more into spar.
Jim B.
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
HI Bill,
Thanks for the drawing; I will print it off. I think th e angle at the top of my
fittings may be off; but anyway I will check it with the drawing and at least
move the angle enough to put the lower fitting hole farther up into the spar.
Thanks,
Jim B.
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: piet fittings |
Well, we're saying the same thing, it's just tough without pictures...
What I'm saying is... hopefully more clearly... is that you need to make the lower
fittings fit the metal you have... The axle needs to fit in there correctly.
Now, the angle at the fuse is making the strut "hit" the lower fitting in
a way that leads you to believe you need to move it an inch and a half closer
to the front one.
Don't do that. Just adjust the angle on the end of the strut pieces so that they
fit. While you may have a big gap based on calculated or measured values,
it really isn't that big of a 'real' difference.
In other, other words (man, ten minutes in a shop and this would be really obvious!),
just like Gary says, the end points are fixed. Just MAKE the struts fit
them. Don't cut the end angles based on calculations or measurements off of
plans and expect them to fit. They'll be close, but THEN you need to "scribe"
them to fit precisely, which will make them very strong. I make them a little
long so that the ensuing scribing will shorten them a bit and they'll be pretty
darn close to right on as they fit. That "little long" is an amount based
on doing lots of this. It's about a quarterish (?) long generally. You kind
of see the part close in on the right length and spot as you scribe it to fit...
I have no idea if this helps or not...
I've always said a carrier landing is like a free throw in basket ball. Not terribly
complicated, but try WRITING a description of how to throw a free throw!
And in the end, it isn't that complicated, but if you're going to bet your
arse on it, you just gotta be pretty good at it.
Does that help?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399738#399738
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: piet fittings |
And I just reread what I originally wrote a few times...
Gary is EXACTLY right... DO NOT adjust where they hit ANYTHING (you seem to be
trying to adjust where they hit the lower fitting) and I seem to say to adjust
where they hit the fuse. I didn't mean that.
The clearer description is, adjust the angles, the end points are VERY fixed.
The normal way to do this would be to cut the angles you measure off the plans,
then wonder why they don't fit. Use the angles on the plans so you have a piece
that will fit closely enough that you can figure the angle precisely. Is
that better?!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399739#399739
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: piet fittings |
So, Jim, are you saying that your wood isn't coming out right, or is it the metal
that isn't fitting correctly? My guess is that your wood isn't quite right,
if you feel the need to bring the tabs of your metal fittings 1 1/2" closer
together. The wood needs to be the correct size at the bottom V, so that the
axle can sit between the front and back legs of the gear without binding. And,
as Gary said, the upper ends of the gear legs need to fall at the mounting brackets
on the fuselage.
Probably the best approach would be to first make sure that your woodwork is the
way it is supposed to be, and then, using the plans as a guide, and using some
card stock (rather than aluminum foil - that must be horrible to work with)
create templates for the metal fittings. Fit and adjust the card stock templates
as needed until they fit YOUR wood gear properly. At this point, use those
templates to cut your metal fittings.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399742#399742
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| Subject: | Re: Wooden strut metal fittings - help |
Jim (Boyer),
Looks like two different questions about metal fittings got posted by two different
Jims. I was asking Jim Quinn for photos. Your photos came through fine.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399743#399743
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