---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/02/13: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:35 AM - I Forgot to Add Proof (jarheadpilot82) 2. 03:42 AM - Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant? (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 04:41 AM - Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant? (jarheadpilot82) 4. 05:49 AM - Shad's offer and axle thoughts (Douwe Blumberg) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: I Forgot to Add Proof (Jerry Dotson) 6. 06:58 AM - Re: Wooden gear legs (Craig Aho) 7. 08:38 AM - Re: axle bending (Bill Church) 8. 09:19 AM - Re: axle bending (AircamperN11MS) 9. 09:41 AM - Plans inconsistency (Isablcorky@aol.com) 10. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: axle bending (Craig Aho) 11. 12:08 PM - Re: Plans inconsistency (jarheadpilot82) 12. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: axle bending (helspersew@aol.com) 13. 02:30 PM - Re: central Iowa Piets? (rorichts) 14. 02:34 PM - Re: central Iowa Piets? (rorichts) 15. 02:39 PM - Re: central Iowa Piets? (rorichts) 16. 03:48 PM - Re: I Forgot to Add Proof (jarheadpilot82) 17. 04:25 PM - Re: Plans inconsistency (C N Campbell) 18. 04:36 PM - Re: Plans inconsistency (Isablcorky@aol.com) 19. 07:06 PM - Re: Wooden gear legs (Clif Dawson) 20. 09:34 PM - Re: Wooden gear legs (Dennis Vetter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: I Forgot to Add Proof From: "jarheadpilot82" Sorry for the 2nd thread. I forgot to add the proof/photos/evidence. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399833#399833 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2960_205.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2959_229.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant? From: helspersew@aol.com Terry, I would have found that very cumbersome and completely unnecessary (Sorry U ncle Tony). If your spars are close to perfect (most are) then it follows t hat the wing surfaces will be also if the ribs are identical to each other, and placement and relation to the spars is the same. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: jarheadpilot82 Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 8:46 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restauran t? ail.com> of course, they are "Ribs are Done!" :D Just finished my last wing rib today. Well, not quite done. I have to- 1. Trim the nose of the ribs for the leading edge piece, as yet to be built .. 2. Rout the gussets where they are "proud". (always loved that word when ta lking about building) 3. Trim the tail of the ribs to prep them for the trailing edge piece, as y et to be created. But I am at least finished with the jig. Progress! But I have one question- Tony Bingelis suggests NOT putting the ribs together on a set of short faux spars to sand them. He says it is better to trammel the wings and then sand two or three of them at a time with a long sanding board. To the builders who h ave completed your wings, does it really matter, as Tony suggests? Your thought s are appreciated. P. S. On to the tail feathers! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399816#399816 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Your Favorite Words to Hear in a Georgia Restaurant? From: "jarheadpilot82" Thanks to all for the words of wisdom. I will round off the edges of the gussets after routing them flush and call it a day. Thanks again. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399837#399837 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:17 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shad's offer and axle thoughts Thanks Shad! Dang, I already ordered the zig zag stuff and it's on its' way. Re the axle discussion, then I'll shut up about it. I agree with Mikeee, if you're building, just use the thicker stuff and save weight somewhere else besides the landing gear. Believe me, that is one place you don't want to skimp. I'm in a different boat as because mine is already done, so whether I modify mine (kind of a fun experiment) or build a new one, they're both extra work. Building a new one being a bit more work. D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I Forgot to Add Proof From: "Jerry Dotson" Congratulations Terry. Keep on keepin' on. Just a matter of time before I look out at the runway and you coming to visit and show off your Piet. Oh and the proof looks good to me. -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399844#399844 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:40 AM PST US From: Craig Aho Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wooden gear legs Is that 2 cents Canadian or US? From: cdawson5854@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wooden gear legs =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Absolutely!! The more touching the better. =0A :-)=0A =0A Clif=0A =0A After reading that post a couple =0A weeks ago about the broken gear leg=2C it seems a good thing to make it a =0A priority that the gear legs actually touch both the fuselage longerons an d =0A eachother at the bottom=2C so shock isn=92t all taken up by the =0A bolts.=0A =0A =0A $.02=0A =0A Douwe=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending From: "Bill Church" First off, the axle as shown in the plans should be sufficient. But the key is "as shown in the plans"; i.e. no brakes (or, more precisely, no extended axle required due to space needed for brakes). If the space required for the brake arrangement you choose is relatively small, just beef up the wall thickness to 3/16", as has been successfully done by Mike Cuy and others. If your brake system needs more space, use the heavier wall and also get the tube heat treated, like Jack Phillips did. Shoving a piece of wood inside the axle doesn't seem to be a wise approach. As was mentioned, the wood will retain moisture, and almost certainly result in corrosion. And the wood will add very little in strength. Just because something was an accepted practice many years ago, doesn't mean it is/was a good idea. And finally, I can't see adding a bunch of diagonal tubes being a viable option. It would be a lot of work. It would add minimal strength. All the additional welding will likely warp the axle. Douwe, if you feel the need to stiffen your existing axle, you may be able to simply weld a steel bar onto the top and bottom surfaces of your current axle. Since your axle is already hidden inside a fairing, the added bars likely would not even be visible. Of course, care would need to be taken in your welding procedure to ensure that distortion is minimized. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399855#399855 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending From: "AircamperN11MS" Here is a pic of my planes front view. The axle is 1.5 inches by 0.125 wall and is original to the plane. It does not have anything extra in the center of it. At times I do have a little bow in the axle when loaded to gross weight. I do not have any brakes which means that the axle is full floating and can rotate should a wheel run low on grease. Ask me how I know. It is hard on the bungee cords when that happens. My feeling is to just use the heavier wall tube and don't worry about it. When it does bend or flex a little it add some camber to the wheels. I think that would make for a little better handling qualities. My 3 cents. (adjusted for inflation) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399858#399858 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_115_234.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:52 AM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:28 AM PST US From: Craig Aho Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending Sounds good to me=2C since I have to replace my bowed axel anyway Im going to the heavier wall. But the discussion was kind of interesting. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending > From: Scott.liefeld@lacity.org > Date: Thu=2C 2 May 2013 09:19:36 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > ity.org> > > Here is a pic of my planes front view. The axle is 1.5 inches by 0.125 wa ll and is original to the plane. It does not have anything extra in the ce nter of it. At times I do have a little bow in the axle when loaded to gro ss weight. I do not have any brakes which means that the axle is full floa ting and can rotate should a wheel run low on grease. Ask me how I know. It is hard on the bungee cords when that happens. My feeling is to just us e the heavier wall tube and don't worry about it. When it does bend or fle x a little it add some camber to the wheels. I think that would make for a little better handling qualities. > > My 3 cents. (adjusted for inflation) > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399858#399858 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_115_234.jpg > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans inconsistency From: "jarheadpilot82" Corky, When looking at my plans, I see the chord as being 60 inches. If you add the distances (6 3/4 + 1 + 27 3/4 + 1 + 11 3/4 + 11 3/4) it equals 60 inches. I don't have the full size rib drawing with me, but does it show a different size spar than the 1 inch? Like maybe a 3/4"? That could be your missing 1/2" 1/4" less on each spar. I may be talking out my backside, but just trying to help. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399869#399869 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2013_05_02_at_20136_pm_911.png ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending From: helspersew@aol.com Bill, I hear you. All this talk about axle bending.....but a little bending (flex ing) is OK. Its the "breaking" part we want to avoid. My axle is warped fro m all the welding. I agree that when welding in all those diagonals, warpin g would be difficult to avoid. But if anyone could do it, Douwe certainly c ould with his experience and skill. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church Sent: Thu, May 2, 2013 11:41 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: axle bending > First off, the axle as shown in the plans should be sufficient. But the ke y is "as shown in the plans"; i.e. no brakes (or, more precisely, no extended ax le required due to space needed for brakes). If the space required for the br ake arrangement you choose is relatively small, just beef up the wall thickness to 3/16", as has been successfully done by Mike Cuy and others. If your brake system needs more space, use the heavier wall and also get the tube heat treated, like Jack Phillips did. Shoving a piece of wood inside the axle doesn't seem to be a wise approach. As was mentioned, the wood will retain moisture, and almost certainly result i n corrosion. And the wood will add very little in strength. Just because something was an accepted practice many years ago, doesn't mean it is/was a good idea. And finally, I can't see adding a bunch of diagonal tubes being a viable op tion. It would be a lot of work. It would add minimal strength. All the additio nal welding will likely warp the axle. Douwe, if you feel the need to stiffen your existing axle, you may be able to simply weld a steel bar onto the top and bottom surfaces of your current axle. Since your axle is already hidden in side a fairing, the added bars likely would not even be visible. Of course, car e would need to be taken in your welding procedure to ensure that distortion is minimized. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399855#399855 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: central Iowa Piets? From: "rorichts" Dennis Vetter wrote: > I'm 20 miles WNW of Fort Dodge,IA. N6636B 65 hp Cont, Piet. Where are you located? Dennis Vetter, minimax103@hotmail.com :D Dennis Look forward to seeing you again, it was yours that I saw in Iowa Falls last summer Rich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399875#399875 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: central Iowa Piets? From: "rorichts" jack(at)textors.com wrote: > Robert I'm in DSM, www.textors.com > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > Jack > Looked over your pics very nice, your experience will be very helpful > Rich ( Robert) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399769#399769 > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399876#399876 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: central Iowa Piets? From: "rorichts" ldmill wrote: > Yup! I actually live in Colo - right between Ames and Marshalltown. Have a GN-1 hangered in Marshalltown. Give me a yell: > Lorin Miller > Cell - 641-485-0840 > email: lorin.miller@emerson.com > GN-1 N30PP, Cont A-75 Nice weather improves will stop in Marshalltown and have another close look take care Rich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399878#399878 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I Forgot to Add Proof From: "jarheadpilot82" Thanks, Jerry. I appreciate the encouragement. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399880#399880 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:43 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency My full-size rib plan measures 27-11/16 spar to spar. That's the reason that full-size rib plan should not be used to build your rib jig with. Paper shrinks or expands with the changes in temperature and humidity. On the main wing plan, there is a drawing at the top of the page giving the dimensions on how to lay out the wing rib. Suggest you use that wing rib plan to decorate your shop wall and lay out the rib on the piece of whatever you are going to use for the jig, using the diminsions from the main drawing. Then, come in 6-3/4 inches from the front of the rib to the front of the spar (if you plan to use a 1-inch thick spar) use 7 inches from the front of the rib if you're using a 3/4 inch thick spar (which is what I did). Then use the wing rib plan to establish the verticals and diagonal pieces. KEEP THE 27-3/4 DIMENSION FROM THE REAR OF THE FRONT SPAR TO THE FRONT OF THE REAR SPAR. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:31 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency In a message dated 5/2/2013 6:26:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cncampbell@windstream.net writes: My full-size rib plan measures 27-11/16 spar to spar. That's the reason that full-size rib plan should not be used to build your rib jig with. Paper shrinks or expands with the changes in temperature and humidity. On the main wing plan, there is a drawing at the top of the page giving the dimensions on how to lay out the wing rib. Suggest you use that wing rib plan to decorate your shop wall and lay out the rib on the piece of whatever you are going to use for the jig, using the diminsions from the main drawing. Then, come in 6-3/4 inches from the front of the rib to the front of the spar (if you plan to use a 1-inch thick spar) use 7 inches from the front of the rib if you're using a 3/4 inch thick spar (which is what I did). Then use the wing rib plan to establish the verticals and diagonal pieces. KEEP THE 27-3/4 DIMENSION FROM THE REAR OF THE FRONT SPAR TO THE FRONT OF THE REAR SPAR. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: _Isablcorky@aol.com_ (mailto:Isablcorky@aol.com) Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans inconsistency Pieters, Had this problem 13 years ago and have forgotten how it was solved. Spar distances. The fullsize layout indicates 27 3/4 in distance between spars inside measurements. If you measure the layout you will find a distance of 28 1/4. Who should I believe. Need your comments before I cut wood. Corky href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thanks. I'm profiling the rib on my jig now using the given numbers. It will take longer to get set up but the accuracy will be well worth it; Corky ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:41 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wooden gear legs I dunno. Ask your wife. :-) Under certain circumstances I'm fairly certain it doesn't matter. Clif A Canadian is someone who knows how to make love in a canoe. Pierre Burton ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Aho Is that 2 cents Canadian or US? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: cdawson5854@shaw.ca Absolutely!! The more touching the better. :-) Clif make it a priority that the gear legs actually touch both the fuselage longerons and eachother at the bottom, $.02 Douwe ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wooden gear legs From: "Dennis Vetter" That's worth more than $.02. Some times small details matter. A lot! 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