Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:56 AM - Re: I Forgot to Add Proof (jarheadpilot82)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: I Forgot to Add Proof (Isablcorky@aol.com)
3. 10:16 AM - Re: I Forgot to Add Proof (taildrags)
4. 10:33 AM - Riblett wing volume (taildrags)
5. 12:08 PM - Re: Riblett wing volume (airlion2@gmail.com)
6. 12:32 PM - Re: Riblett wing volume (Craig Aho)
7. 01:11 PM - Re: Riblett wing volume (Ken Bickers)
8. 02:18 PM - About to make to First Rib (Isablcorky@aol.com)
9. 04:04 PM - Re: Riblett wing volume (Jerry Dotson)
10. 06:03 PM - Re: Riblett wing volume (Gary Boothe)
11. 09:01 PM - Re: Riblett wing volume (taildrags)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: I Forgot to Add Proof |
Those are the dastardly 613.5 Riblett wing ribs.
Good eye.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399985#399985
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: I Forgot to Add Proof |
In a message dated 5/5/2013 5:56:33 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82"
<jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
Those are the dastardly 613.5 Riblett wing ribs.
Good eye.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399985#399985
Finished my jig. They are pure Minnesota, oatmeal, apple pie, Pietenpol
designed and signed rib specs for 3/4 spars, 3/8 X 1/4 select fir cap strip,
for three piece wing. The kit will include 31 ribs and 1/8 plywood for 8
surfaces of aileron end ribs and related wing ribs.
Wanted to furnish plywood for butt ribs but freight costs prohibits this.
Avoid 1/4 marine plywood for these butt ribs as they are too heavy. I would
even consider using 1/16 on top and bottom of center section. Think weight
each time you add to your project. I think my W&B was 634 w/metal McCauley
prop about 21 lbs. Wood prop was near 9 lbs which brought the project down
to about 621. It must jump off the ground now with the 75 engine and pilot
Oscar who isn't much fatter than a fart in a whirlwind. Just remember to
build light. Lots of places for lightning holes
Corky
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: I Forgot to Add Proof |
Corky: at the last W&B (after the engine change), the empty, dry weight of 41CC
was right at 630 lbs as weighed on digital, electronic race car scales. And
that's with a venturi, gyro turn & bank, ELT, and comm whip antenna with coax
installed. And now that I think about it, I think the "baggage pouch" behind
the pilot's seat also had two canvas flying helmets, two sets of goggles, the
airplane's papers, a small bottle of water, and a small ziplock with safety wire,
some AN nuts and washers, cotter pins, and small roll of tape in it as well.
So your original W&B of 621 lbs is probably still what it weighs if I take
the stuff out of the baggage pouch. Don't tell the FAA that I weighed it with
that stuff back there, please ;o)
Yes, the Air Camper can be built light and it will fly happier that way.
do not archive
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399994#399994
Message 4
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| Subject: | Riblett wing volume |
By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the possibilities
of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively flat Pietenpol
wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a wing bay. Curious
to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank holds when constructed
to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10 gallons, maybe a little
less.
The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing
of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should have a volume of
around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide 16 gallons
and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons of
fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank to flow reliably, especially
in anything other than straight and level flight. With the fuel in the wings,
gravity flow is much better, and it moves the fuel away from the cockpit.
That can be a big plus, as William Wynne found out the hard way when his plane
crashed and fuel in the cockpit burned him badly and destroyed the airplane.
Another plus is that the CG will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks.
And you can keep the centersection for storing things. And you can get to the
rear of the firewall easier. And... and...
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett wing volume |
I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at the front
and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I figure 3.5
hrs. cheers, Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On May 5, 2013, at 1:32 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the possibilities
of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively flat Pietenpol
wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a wing bay.
Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank holds when constructed
to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10 gallons, maybe a little
less.
>
> The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib spacing
of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should have a volume
of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide 16 gallons
and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the last 2 or 2.5 gallons
of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank to flow reliably, especially
in anything other than straight and level flight. With the fuel in the wings,
gravity flow is much better, and it moves the fuel away from the cockpit.
That can be a big plus, as William Wynne found out the hard way when his plane
crashed and fuel in the cockpit burned him badly and destroyed the airplane.
Another plus is that the CG will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks.
And you can keep the centersection for storing things. And you can get to
the rear of the firewall easier. And... and...
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Riblett wing volume |
So is the concensus that most Piet builders would not change to the 4412 or
Riblett?
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume
> From: airlion2@gmail.com
> Date: Sun=2C 5 May 2013 15:06:12 -0400
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at
the front and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I
figure 3.5 hrs. cheers=2C Gardiner
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 5=2C 2013=2C at 1:32 PM=2C "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wro
te:
>
m>
> >
> > By the way=2C just looking at Terry's wing ribs=2C I am reminded about
the possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relativ
ely flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall)=2C it's tough to get much volum
e in a wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel t
ank holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is arou
nd 10 gallons=2C maybe a little less.
> >
> > The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With
rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart=2C a Riblett wing bay should
have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would
provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable=2C unlike the
last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC=2C which are just too low in the tank
to flow reliably=2C especially in anything other than straight and level f
light. With the fuel in the wings=2C gravity flow is much better=2C and it
moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus=2C as Willia
m Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockp
it burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the C
G will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the ce
ntersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewal
l easier. And... and...
> >
> > --------
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > Medford=2C OR
> > Air Camper NX41CC "=3BScout"=3B
> > A75 power
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett wing volume |
Oscar, I built a center section wing tank. The center section is the width
called out in the plans and the wing ribs are Pietenpol. I've measured the
fuel capacity of my tank at 11 gallons, give or take a few ounces. I don't
know (and won't, for at least a few months) what the usable amount is.
Cheers, Ken
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Craig Aho <soar561@hotmail.com> wrote:
> So is the concensus that most Piet builders would not change to the 4412
> or Riblett?
>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume
> > From: airlion2@gmail.com
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 15:06:12 -0400
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> >
> >
> > I have a 36in center section with the fuel tank inside and an outlet at
> the front and at the back.It holds 20.5 gallons and with my corvair power I
> figure 3.5 hrs. cheers, Gardiner
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On May 5, 2013, at 1:32 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> taildrags@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the
> possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively
> flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a
> wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank
> holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10
> gallons, maybe a little less.
> > >
> > > The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With
> rib spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should
> have a volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would
> provide 16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the
> last 2 or 2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank
> to flow reliably, especially in anything other than straight and level
> flight. With the fuel in the wings, gravity flow is much better, and it
> moves the fuel away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus, as William
> Wynne found out the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockpit
> burned him badly and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the CG
> will not shift as fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the
> centersection for storing things. And you can get to the rear of the
> firewall easier. And... and...
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Oscar Zuniga
> > > Medford, OR
> > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> > > A75 power
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >================
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | About to make to First Rib |
Pieters,
I'm about to get started. Thought I would make 1 complete rib tomorrow and
in event I'm not in any position to make any more after Tuesday you can put
this one in the Piet museum.
Corky
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett wing volume |
I built my tank to the Piet airfoil. No fabric required. It is made from 060 aluminum.
The top is big enouh to be over the ribs A piece of wood is glued on top of each
spar to screw wood screw into to fasten it to the wing. It holds 16 1/2 gallons
giving it a little over 2 hours range with plenty of reserve. It is all I
need. Me bones won't let me ride more than an hour or so.
Sorry abut the fuzzy picture. I enlarged it and then cropped it.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400009#400009
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a1_133.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Riblett wing volume |
To be clear, if you read back about WW's accident, it was with a wing
tank...a wing tank without flexible fuel lines running to the fuselage. Thus
his constant reminder to avoid solid lines where the wing may shift in an
accident. Also, he notes that some Pietenpols, with the slant brace struts,
have a poor attachment design at the wing fitting, which appears to be
fragile, at best. He advises a bracket that will not let the strut shift
from one side to another, or otherwise break, as a wing may try to shift
forward in a nose-over or crash.
FYI, my center section fuel tank, in an as-designed Pietenpol wing, holds 16
gallons, by raising the top a bit.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 10:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Riblett wing volume
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
By the way, just looking at Terry's wing ribs, I am reminded about the
possibilities of putting fuel tanks in the wings now. With the relatively
flat Pietenpol wing (less than 5" tall), it's tough to get much volume in a
wing bay. Curious to know how much the typical centersection fuel tank
holds when constructed to Air Camper plans. I've heard that it is around 10
gallons, maybe a little less.
The Riblett 613.5 should be about 8" tall (13.5% of 60" =8.1"). With rib
spacing of 11" and spars about 27" apart, a Riblett wing bay should have a
volume of around 8 gallons. Putting a wing tank on each side would provide
16 gallons and essentially all of it would be usable, unlike the last 2 or
2.5 gallons of fuel in 41CC, which are just too low in the tank to flow
reliably, especially in anything other than straight and level flight. With
the fuel in the wings, gravity flow is much better, and it moves the fuel
away from the cockpit. That can be a big plus, as William Wynne found out
the hard way when his plane crashed and fuel in the cockpit burned him badly
and destroyed the airplane. Another plus is that the CG will not shift as
fuel is used up in wing tanks. And you can keep the centersection for
storing things. And you can get to the rear of the firewall easier. And...
and...
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399995#399995
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett wing volume |
Very good information from everyone who responded! Good data points for builders
who are thinking about their fuel system arrangement, especially.
I really like the "DeHavilland hump" that some of the builders have used on their
centersection to get more fuel capacity (or a larger storage area). It works
very well if you're building period appearance into your Air Camper. We've
already discussed the downsides to having the fuel in the centersection (getting
up there to fill the tank, for example), so I won't go there. We've also
discussed easy options for fuel level indication for the centersection or wing
tank, with the Larry Williams "Stearman glass" setup being the one I like best.
Thanks for the comments from everyone, and thanks to Terry for posting the pictures
of his stack of ribs to start the discussion on fuel tanks and capacities
in this regard. Now we have to ask Terry the question, did he pull the nails
or staples from his gussets after the glue dried, or did he leave them in? This
one always seems to set off a new discussion, usually about steel nails or
staples rusting if they are left in the wood, extra weight if they are left in
the wood, etc. etc.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400027#400027
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