Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:52 AM - Re: My Days Work (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 04:42 AM - Re: My Days Work (womenfly2)
3. 05:08 AM - Re: My Days Work (Avill)
4. 05:56 AM - Re: My Days Work (Michael Weston)
5. 06:24 AM - Re: My Days Work (Avill)
6. 06:45 AM - Turnbuckle Cleanup (CraigAho)
7. 06:53 AM - Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
8. 06:58 AM - Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup (C N Campbell)
9. 07:08 AM - Welcome Michael Weston (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
10. 07:23 AM - Re: My Days Work (dgaldrich)
11. 08:02 AM - Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup (dgaldrich)
12. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: My Days Work (Ken Bickers)
13. 08:28 AM - Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup (CraigAho)
14. 08:42 AM - My Days Work (Oscar Zuniga)
15. 09:10 AM - Re: My Days Work (nightmare)
16. 09:55 AM - Re: My Days Work (taildrags)
17. 10:28 AM - Re: My Days Work (Dick N)
18. 10:41 AM - Re: My Days Work (nightmare)
19. 11:36 AM - Re: My Days Work (Bill Church)
20. 11:39 AM - Re: My Days Work (Don Emch)
21. 01:04 PM - spruce capstrip (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
22. 01:38 PM - Re: spruce capstrip (C N Campbell)
23. 01:47 PM - Re: spruce capstrip (C N Campbell)
24. 02:03 PM - Re: spruce capstrip (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
25. 02:38 PM - Re: My Days Work (Greg Cardinal)
26. 03:09 PM - Re: My Days Work (Avill)
27. 05:54 PM - Re: spruce capstrip (C N Campbell)
28. 07:18 PM - Re: spruce capstrip (nightmare)
29. 11:55 PM - Re: Re: My Days Work (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
OK John Hoffman, so the list has been slow lately....................
-----Original Message-----
From: Avill <avillery@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, May 9, 2013 7:51 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Days Work
Well here is my day's work. I figured since money is tight I might as well
draw
up my ribs. This is a 613.5 for use on a long wing with 1.5" I-beam spars.
I
will probably end up having one of the people I know with a router cut the
gussets and jig to match. We will see if I can get the cap strips cut on a
laser
or a router. What ever happened to that guy about 2 years ago who was offer
ing
CNC rib kits?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400229#400229
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_no_verticals_932.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_6135_with_verticals_113.jpg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Why would you cut the cap strips out on a CNC router or laser. The grain or slope
of the wood would not be correct.
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400245#400245
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Maybe I used the incorrect terminology, the capstrips would still be bent but 90%
of the mitres could be completed.
I also neglected to mention the purpose. The mission is hot and high here in Denver.
Yeah its been slow.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400247#400247
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
hi, new here.my name is mike weston I'm building a short fuselage piet here in
minneapolis, where the pilot light blew out on spring.anyway.I was unaware of
the option to use a 1.5" "I"beam spar. where do I obtain a copy of this plan addendum?
for that matter I didnt know that there was a long wing option how long?
and where? by the way, you guys (and gals) are by far and away the most pleasant
and helpful group i have ever come across on the web. keep it up!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Mike,
There are no plans for an I-beam spar. It is however referenced on the West Coast
Piet site with the necessary formulas.
As far as lenghtening the wing, it has been done but again, no plans. I was intending
on an extra rib inboard and one outboard of the strut.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400252#400252
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| Subject: | Turnbuckle Cleanup |
I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for cleaning the barrels of the many
turnbuckles i have from NX40772. The barrels are all dark from age but also the
smoke damage. A couple cleaned up with some brass polish and fine bronze wool
but most are stubborn and it would be a lot of handwork to brighten. Is there
something I can soak them in? Lacquer thinner? or something?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400254#400254
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| Subject: | Turnbuckle Cleanup |
http://www.wizardsproducts.com/store/catalog/Metal-Polish-30-oz-p-13.html
This is by far the best (and easiest) stuff I've used to polish not only tu
rnbuckles but my aluminum rims.
Of course there is Nevr Dull polishing wadding available at Walmart/Kmart A
utomotive and most of the autozone
type stores that work well too but there is some chemical in this Wizards t
hat really makes brass shine incredibly nicely
and fast.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.png@01CE4D64.212208B0]
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup |
Craig, there is a product called "Brasso" which (most) military types use to
shine their belt buckles. Don't know where you could get a can. I used to
get what I needed at a military uniform shop or something similar. It does
take a bit or rubbing, though. C
----- Original Message -----
From: "CraigAho" <Soar561@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle Cleanup
>
> I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for cleaning the barrels of the
> many turnbuckles i have from NX40772. The barrels are all dark from age
> but also the smoke damage. A couple cleaned up with some brass polish and
> fine bronze wool but most are stubborn and it would be a lot of handwork
> to brighten. Is there something I can soak them in? Lacquer thinner? or
> something?
>
> Craig
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400254#400254
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Welcome Michael Weston |
Hi Michael,
I made a simple spar that required no routing and was easy to build.
You can make the wing longer yes. If building a 3-pce wing make your cente
r section wider or add a foot or two to each
wing panel. It will improve your climb and how much you can lift passenge
r-wise. You've got Dick Navratil in your area
and he's built two Piets so he should be a good source of info first hand.
If you can attend the Piet fly-in at Brodhead, WI
you'll see lots of good things on how people did various aspects of the pla
ne. Each one a little different from the rest. Bring
a measuring tape, camera, and notepad:).
Michael Cuy
Ohio
[cid:image001.jpg@01CE4D66.118FC200]
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Mike
There are a number of Piets in the MSP area and one of the local EAA chapters is
building one. Dick Navrotil has built or had a hand in building something like
10 of them, lives in St Paul, and is active on this list. You should have
a lot of usable advice from them.
Dave
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400263#400263
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| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup |
Or you could just leave them as-is and call it an "unrestored, authentic, antique,
patina finish" -- guaranteed to add value to almost anything. Insert smart-a**
smiley face here.
Dave
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400268#400268
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Avill,
If you are in the Denver area, you're welcome to drop by sometime to take a
peek at my Pietenpol project. I'm based in Longmont. I'll be at the hangar
most of tomorrow wing covering and probably some other to-do list items.
Send me a PM if interested.
Ken
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Avill <avillery@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe I used the incorrect terminology, the capstrips would still be bent
> but 90% of the mitres could be completed.
>
> I also neglected to mention the purpose. The mission is hot and high here
> in Denver. Yeah its been slow.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400247#400247
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Turnbuckle Cleanup |
Thanks Guys for the suggestions. I have not seen the Miracle product Mike, I will
take a look for it. I have used the others and was using some Never Dull along
with the steel and bronze wool. I even chucked up a few barrels and spun them
with my drill motor while holding the wool in the other hand which is a nice
way to quickly polish but there are many VERY subbornly tarnished baked on
smoke finish ones that will be more of a challenge and with the costs of buckles
these days these are like gold so I will put the labor in a clean them up or
maybe go with Daves suggestion. :) Speaking of labor intensive my wire wheels
are a nitemare trying to relace them just because I had to have the nice looking
grease cups. [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
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Avill=3B
Is there some engineering behind your increasing the spar width to 1.5"? T
he most important dimension for a spar (bending loads) is the depth. Incre
asing the width does improve the spar's top and bottom chord performance in
tension and compression=2C which helps in bending=2C but the point is=2C o
thers have shown that 3/4" width is adequate for standard Air Camper spars.
You might consider using 1" instead of 1.5" for your analysis with the lo
nger wing before locking yourself into doubling the stock spar width.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford=2C OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Avil: welcome to the 613.5 club. Mark Roberts, I believe, can provide cnc rib jig.
Not sure about the ribs themselves. Contact me off line for his phone number.
I don't think he would mind.
I've built my center section I-beam 5/8 web and 1x1 top and bottom. I was just
today trying to find out how one could figure out how to determine I-beam configurations
to be equally as strong as varied sizes of sawn lumber spar material.would
love to hear about your software/website/formula that you are using.
Thanks; Paul
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Paul;
The easy way to figure out what spar configuration you need would be to start with
what works and then reverse-engineer your way to the configuration that you
want to try. In the case of the stock Piet wing, you could start with the stock
1" solid spar and determine the moment that the stock, solid Air Camper spar
was designed to sustain and use that as the number that your proposed substitute
spar needs to meet. There are tables for looking up the moment of inertia
for the beam section (Ix), a rectangle being the simplest. With that number
in hand, you could calculate the web and flange dimensions needed for your
"alternative" spar, but it gets more complex.
The solid wood spar in the original drawings (and the routed 3/4" spar that Mr.
Pietenpol later used as well) are Sitka spruce. If you use a different type
of wood, or if you build up a composite I-beam section, the materials used may
have different yield stress characteristics than Sitka and you've got to account
for that. If you change the spar depth, the moment of inertia for the spar
section changes, and you have to account for that. If you make the wings longer,
the bending moment and other loads change as well... and you have to account
for that. If you keep the attachment point for the lift struts to the wing
spars the same but increase the wing span, the loading on the outboard parts
of the wing changes and you have to account for that. Yadda, yadda.
The point is, it's not as simple as "if I widen the flange by 1/2", I can increase
the wing span by 18". At least, not if you want to do it right.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
What part of Mpls are you in? I am in Arden Hills and would like to stop by
for a visit sometime.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Weston" <smikewest@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Days Work
hi, new here.my name is mike weston I'm building a short fuselage piet here
in minneapolis, where the pilot light blew out on spring.anyway.I was
unaware of the option to use a 1.5" "I"beam spar. where do I obtain a copy
of this plan addendum? for that matter I didnt know that there was a long
wing option how long? and where? by the way, you guys (and gals) are by far
and away the most pleasant and helpful group i have ever come across on the
web. keep it up!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Thanks Oscar; my scenario would be a little easier. Since im using the 613.5 wing,
I would like to reverse engineer a cub spar into an ibeam. For all practical
purposes, all the variables would be identical. Even though im using doug
fir, I would still compare it to the spruce and end up with a slightly stronger
spar.
I looked at the west coast piet formulas that Avill mentioned and its Not as
easy to figure out as I was hoping (for me) but Thats OK, I'll just continue with
my slightly lighter and slightly stronger spar, unless any one else has some
time to kill and wants to figure it out for me.
Paul;
The easy way to figure out what spar configuration you need would be to start with
what works and then reverse-engineer your way to the configuration that you
want to try. In the case of the stock Piet wing, you could start with the stock
1" solid spar and determine the moment that the stock, solid Air Camper spar
was designed to sustain and use that as the number that your proposed substitute
spar needs to meet. There are tables for looking up the moment of inertia
for the beam section (Ix), a rectangle being the simplest. With that number
in hand, you could calculate the web and flange dimensions needed for your "alternative"
spar, but it gets more complex.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Avill,
i was just looking at your CAD model of your rib, and it appears that you have
raised the level where the bottom surface of the spars will sit. I don't think
you want to do that. That will require that your brackets will need to be longer,
with increased bending loads. The spars should sit right on top of the
bottom capstrip.
As for CNC router or laser cut capstrips... one has to ask "why?". These are simple
1/4" x 1/2" strips of spruce, easily cut with a small hand saw, or a miter
saw. I rough cut mine a little bit oversized, and then fine tuned with a stationary
disc sander. Worked like a charm.
And finally, as Oscar said, every change affects many other things that need to
be accounted for. Be careful to make sure you cover all your bases before proceeding
with significant changes.
Bill C.
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Remember, Mr. Pietenpol used a 1" routed spar and that is shown in the Pietenpol
family plans. Later, in the '60's he used a laminated 3/4" spar with no routing.
Laminated correctly this would be stronger than a solid 3/4" spar which
he never used. Others however have used this. There's very little difference
in price between 3/4" and 1" and routing is very simple.
Don Emch
NX899DE
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This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs.
(this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than Douglas
Fir too.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.png@01CE4D97.A8FAEB20]
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip
This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs.
(this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than
Douglas Fir too.
Mike C.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
Michael, I don't know where you got the figure of $0.53 per foot for 1/2
X 1/4 capstrip. ACS sells it for $0.32 per foot for a total of $144 for
450 feet. I sort of think it will take just a bit more than that. I
think I figured 500 feet. My capstrip was cut from 5/4 (1 inch
finished) Douglas Fir stock. We first cut the board into 1/4-inch
strips and then cut the 1-inch dimension down the middle. The strips
actually came out 1/4 X 7/16 or there abouts. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip
This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs.
(this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than
Douglas Fir too.
Mike C.
Message 24
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That's even a better price you got there Chuck from AC Spruce. My cut and p
aste was from Wicks Aircraft Supply.
Sure is nice to just get finished stock and start cutting and gluing but I
can see people making their own capstrip material,
just not me:) !
Mike C.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N Campbell
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip
Michael, I don't know where you got the figure of $0.53 per foot for 1/2 X
1/4 capstrip. ACS sells it for $0.32 per foot for a total of $144 for 450
feet. I sort of think it will take just a bit more than that. I think I f
igured 500 feet. My capstrip was cut from 5/4 (1 inch finished) Douglas Fi
r stock. We first cut the board into 1/4-inch strips and then cut the 1-in
ch dimension down the middle. The strips actually came out 1/4 X 7/16 or t
here abouts. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]<mailto:michael.d.cu
y@nasa.gov>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip
This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs.
(this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than Douglas
Fir too.
Mike C.
[cid:image001.png@01CE4DA0.21EC1830]
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Mike,
Minneapolis / St. Paul has a very active Pietenpol following. Active
Pietenpol flyers include Dick Navratil, Bob Poore, Larry White and myself.
Several active build projects are in the immediate area also.
Call me at 612 721-6235, we'll get you connected.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Weston" <smikewest@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My Days Work
> <smikewest@comcast.net>
>
> hi, new here.my name is mike weston I'm building a short fuselage piet
> here in minneapolis, where the pilot light blew out on spring.anyway.I was
> unaware of the option to use a 1.5" "I"beam spar. where do I obtain a copy
> of this plan addendum? for that matter I didnt know that there was a long
> wing option how long? and where? by the way, you guys (and gals) are by
> far and away the most pleasant and helpful group i have ever come across
> on the web. keep it up!
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Bill Church wrote:
> Avill,
> i was just looking at your CAD model of your rib, and it appears that you have
raised the level where the bottom surface of the spars will sit. I don't think
you want to do that. That will require that your brackets will need to be
longer, with increased bending loads. The spars should sit right on top of the
bottom capstrip.
> As for CNC router or laser cut capstrips... one has to ask "why?". These are
simple 1/4" x 1/2" strips of spruce, easily cut with a small hand saw, or a miter
saw. I rough cut mine a little bit oversized, and then fine tuned with a
stationary disc sander. Worked like a charm.
> And finally, as Oscar said, every change affects many other things that need
to be accounted for. Be careful to make sure you cover all your bases before
proceeding with significant changes.
>
> Bill C.
Bill,
Thank you for your input. I will reduce the distance from the capstrips to the
spar on the next revision.
Everyone else, I will put in more time and see if the 1" built up spar works with
the extra height.
Ken,
How does next Friday sound?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400306#400306
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
I'm cheap!! My last name's Campbell -- Scotch, you know. C
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip
That's even a better price you got there Chuck from AC Spruce. My cut
and paste was from Wicks Aircraft Supply.
Sure is nice to just get finished stock and start cutting and gluing
but I can see people making their own capstrip material,
just not meJ !
Mike C.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C N
Campbell
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:46 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip
Michael, I don't know where you got the figure of $0.53 per foot for
1/2 X 1/4 capstrip. ACS sells it for $0.32 per foot for a total of $144
for 450 feet. I sort of think it will take just a bit more than that.
I think I figured 500 feet. My capstrip was cut from 5/4 (1 inch
finished) Douglas Fir stock. We first cut the board into 1/4-inch
strips and then cut the 1-inch dimension down the middle. The strips
actually came out 1/4 X 7/16 or there abouts. Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 4:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spruce capstrip
This would be enough spruce to build an entire set of wing ribs.
(this is for 450 feet of =BC"x =BD" spruce capstrip. Lighter than
Douglas Fir too.
Mike C.
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
For that money, I got enough doug fir for 1 1/2 piets. And I mean spars, ribs,
longerons ect... I couldnt find that deal again though.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
In this 5/8" web, what is the material and direction
of grain?
Clif
> I've built my center section I-beam 5/8 web and 1x1 top and bottom. .
> Thanks; Paul
> Paul Donahue
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