Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:57 AM - Fire extinguisher (at7000ft)
2. 09:14 AM - Re: spruce capstrip (Jim Boyer)
3. 11:49 AM - Re: My Days Work (Mark Roberts)
4. 11:50 AM - Re: Fire extinguisher (Kip and Beth Gardner)
5. 12:36 PM - Re: spruce capstrip (taildrags)
6. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: My Days Work (Gary Boothe)
7. 01:04 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher (taildrags)
8. 01:14 PM - Re: My Days Work (taildrags)
9. 01:52 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
10. 02:02 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher (taildrags)
11. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: spruce capstrip (Isablcorky@aol.com)
12. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: spruce capstrip (C N Campbell)
13. 05:46 PM - Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture (Mark Roberts)
14. 06:15 PM - Re: My Days Work (Mark Roberts)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fire extinguisher |
Guys
Haven't posted in quite a while but I am just about ready to drag my Piet to a
hanger I am sharing with a great guy with two Thorpe T-18s (Meadow Lake, east
of Colorado Springs).
Anyhow I know its not a requirement but how many of you guys carry a fire extinguisher?
And what type? Would a halon extinguisher work in an open cockpit or
would a dry chemical type be better? Asked the FAA safety people at SNF and they
were clueless.
rick
--------
Rick Holland
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400342#400342
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
NO you drink Scotch; you are a Scot.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Hi Guys:
Welcome to the 613.5 club! Yes, I am building that airfoil as well. I know recent
testing has been done on the different rib styles, but I'm going for the true
"Experimental" route and using the GA-30-613.5 (as Mr. Riblett corrected me
when I asked his advice between the "612 and the 613.5" for my fat all up weight).
I do have plans drawn out if you want them. I don't "Publish" them as I want no
liability for their use. I drew them to the actual plots published, and used
the same size capstrip as the piet airfoil. I also did SEVERAL iterations of them,
and punched out the jig on a CNC router I had. I also drew out the gussets
to be laser cut.
At one point, during one of my more and more frequent job lay offs, I had thought
that I might kit the various airfoil jigs and parts (including a 'stick' cutting
jig that would fit on a table saw and allow you to cut all of the internal
parts accurately, with the right length, and angle to just POP into place and
glue... made one and it works well, but not cost effective to make and ship).
The jig I finalized used 1/4" dowels as bracing as it was easier to punch out
on a CNC router. It is "dead to nuts" accurate to the original .dat point file
on the airfoil plot.
So, here's my take as a heretic of the "Riblett following":
Listen to Oscar (aka Taildrags) in his analysis of the spar. It is height, not
spar width that will make the biggest strength difference. The true strength is
in the top and bottom of the spar which carry the compression and tension loads,
and the height between the 2 that makes the spar stronger, not the width.
(OK: that's a readers digest summary, perhaps you engineers will wince (Oscar!).
The Riblett spar slots are deeper (taller) at their respective positions on the
plot. Taller equals more spar height (depth) if you choose to make the spar fill
the entire rib (top to bottom) with a spar (I do and I will). So (Oscar, correct
my simple engineering mind if I am incorrect, but I'm not), the distance
between the top and bottom of the spar can increase, allowing for a stronger
wing spar for an extended length wing (as I plan.... I know HERESY!). For the
record: I have allowed for the changes in wing length by taking advantage of
a taller spar with 1" depth- routed for lightening- and moving the strut connection
to the spar out one wing bay to allow for the added stress of 2 additional
bays per side... and yes, I designed the vertical tail and stab/elevator to
the proper size to compensate for the additional wing area and fuse nose extension
by 2").
In theory, the Riblett design could add additional lift and allow to carry heavier
loads. I plan to go for the full 1320 lb weight limit on my Piet with the
additional strength changes to the design.
So, hope that helps!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400361#400361
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
Rick,
I would say offhand, go with the dry chem. With either you may have a
problem getting it onto the fire, but if you succeed in that, the dry
chem is going to have a continuous action, where the halon will
dissipate rapidly.
On May 11, 2013, at 10:57 AM, at7000ft wrote:
>
> Guys
>
> Haven't posted in quite a while but I am just about ready to drag my
> Piet to a hanger I am sharing with a great guy with two Thorpe T-18s
> (Meadow Lake, east of Colorado Springs).
>
> Anyhow I know its not a requirement but how many of you guys carry a
> fire extinguisher? And what type? Would a halon extinguisher work in
> an open cockpit or would a dry chemical type be better? Asked the
> FAA safety people at SNF and they were clueless.
>
> rick
>
> --------
> Rick Holland
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400342#400342
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
Aye, it's "Scots", man. Nothing against a little Glenlivet scotch, though!
My grandfather, Paul Young, was Scots-Irish. I guess that's why I never throw
anything away and always try to make do with what I have ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400366#400366
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Not endorsing the Riblett airfoils, but I have seen Mark's rib jib...it's a
thing of beauty!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Days Work
--> <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Hi Guys:
Welcome to the 613.5 club! Yes, I am building that airfoil as well. I know
recent testing has been done on the different rib styles, but I'm going for
the true "Experimental" route and using the GA-30-613.5 (as Mr. Riblett
corrected me when I asked his advice between the "612 and the 613.5" for my
fat all up weight).
I do have plans drawn out if you want them. I don't "Publish" them as I want
no liability for their use. I drew them to the actual plots published, and
used the same size capstrip as the piet airfoil. I also did SEVERAL
iterations of them, and punched out the jig on a CNC router I had. I also
drew out the gussets to be laser cut.
At one point, during one of my more and more frequent job lay offs, I had
thought that I might kit the various airfoil jigs and parts (including a
'stick' cutting jig that would fit on a table saw and allow you to cut all
of the internal parts accurately, with the right length, and angle to just
POP into place and glue... made one and it works well, but not cost
effective to make and ship). The jig I finalized used 1/4" dowels as bracing
as it was easier to punch out on a CNC router. It is "dead to nuts" accurate
to the original .dat point file on the airfoil plot.
So, here's my take as a heretic of the "Riblett following":
Listen to Oscar (aka Taildrags) in his analysis of the spar. It is height,
not spar width that will make the biggest strength difference. The true
strength is in the top and bottom of the spar which carry the compression
and tension loads, and the height between the 2 that makes the spar
stronger, not the width. (OK: that's a readers digest summary, perhaps you
engineers will wince (Oscar!).
The Riblett spar slots are deeper (taller) at their respective positions on
the plot. Taller equals more spar height (depth) if you choose to make the
spar fill the entire rib (top to bottom) with a spar (I do and I will). So
(Oscar, correct my simple engineering mind if I am incorrect, but I'm not),
the distance between the top and bottom of the spar can increase, allowing
for a stronger wing spar for an extended length wing (as I plan.... I know
HERESY!). For the record: I have allowed for the changes in wing length by
taking advantage of a taller spar with 1" depth- routed for lightening- and
moving the strut connection to the spar out one wing bay to allow for the
added stress of 2 additional bays per side... and yes, I designed the
vertical tail and stab/elevator to the proper size to compensate for the
additional wing area and fuse nose extension by 2").
In theory, the Riblett design could add additional lift and allow to carry
heavier loads. I plan to go for the full 1320 lb weight limit on my Piet
with the additional strength changes to the design.
So, hope that helps!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400361#400361
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
Boy, I'll bet you get answers that are all over the map on this one. It's really
going to depend on where and when you expect to have to use the extinguisher,
and on what type of fire. My guess is that if you have a fire while in the
air, you won't be in any position to handle the extinguisher while flying the
plane, but the alternative isn't pretty either. On the ground, you will have
a better chance of properly applying the extinguisher while shutting down the
engine and fuel supply.
The three common classes fires (for purposes of extinguishers) are A, B, and C.
Class A are ordinary combustibles such as wood, paper, fabric, etc. Class B
are flammable and combustible liquids. Class C are electrical fires. Most household
or light commercial portable extinguishers are either dry chemical types
rated for A-B-C, or CO2, rated for B or C. There are pros and cons to each.
The dry chemical types, as Kip mentioned, may be the best choice but be aware
that they do leave a residue and it will require cleanup or you can get corrosion
from the residue. The CO2 extinguishers leave no residue, but don't work
well when you may have wood and fabric on fire. CO2 will almost certainly
get blown out of your cockpit if you're in flight or have the engine running
when you try to use it.
Too many variables, and no cure-all. The other problem is that there isn't much
room in a Piet cockpit to carry an extinguisher of any size, so you really only
get one short shot at putting out a fire with a small extinguisher. If you
want to sacrifice one, set up a mock fire with spruce, fabric, or avgas and
try a small A-B-C extinguisher on it to see if it's worth the effort to carry
in the cockpit.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400368#400368
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
Mark; I think your Reader's Digest version states things very clearly. And yes,
in theory a taller spar should be able to resist a greater bending load (lift,
in the case of a cantilevered airplane wing), which should enable you to increase
the span or the wing loading.
With that said, I will reiterate what others have pointed out: the chain is only
as strong as its weakest link. You can strengthen one link or several links,
but then the failure point moves elsewhere and you have to make sure you check
all the links. One thing affects another, and another. You need to check
the lift struts, the strut attach hardware and fittings, maybe the internal wing
bay bracing, who knows what else.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400371#400371
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
The pond! The pond's the safest place Axel!
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400373#400373
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher |
Curt, you may actually be right about that (unless the pond is salt water).
Except now you're going to start a whole new discussion about the best type of
PFD to wear while flying, in the event of a water landing ;o)
On a more serious note, I saw in the news earlier this week where one of the crew
aboard a World Cup catamaran drowned when the boat capsized. If you get trapped
in the wreckage, boat or airplane, things can turn rotten in a hurry and
neither a PFD nor a fire extinguisher can help much.
It's best that we-
do not archive
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400374#400374
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
In a message dated 5/11/2013 2:37:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Aye, it's "Scots", man. Nothing against a little Glenlivet scotch, though!
My grandfather, Paul Young, was Scots-Irish. I guess that's why I never
throw anything away and always try to make do with what I have ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400366#400366
So that's why I've always ended up with all my stuff.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: spruce capstrip |
I'm Scots-Irish --- very frugal. C
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spruce capstrip
In a message dated 5/11/2013 2:37:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
Aye, it's "Scots", man. Nothing against a little Glenlivet scotch,
though!
My grandfather, Paul Young, was Scots-Irish. I guess that's why I
never throw anything away and always try to make do with what I have ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400366#400366
So that's why I've always ended up with all my stuff.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Well, I did it... Cut out that compression fracture |
Now it's fixed!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400389#400389
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/13683195156930_799.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: My Days Work |
I blush.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400392#400392
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