---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/25/13: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Re: jury struts (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:00 AM - Re: jury struts (Jack) 3. 05:44 AM - Re: jury struts (C N Campbell) 4. 05:44 AM - Piets in pa (Amsafetyc) 5. 05:53 AM - Re: Corvair cooling eyebrows (Gary Boothe) 6. 06:01 AM - Re: Corvair cooling eyebrows (Robert Bush) 7. 07:21 AM - Re: Continental Engine (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 8. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: what is a "flight manual" and an "equipment list" (shad bell) 9. 10:08 AM - Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: (Bill Princell) 10. 04:29 PM - Re: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: (Gary Boothe) 11. 06:05 PM - Re: Jury struts yes or no? (Darrel Jones) 12. 06:17 PM - Re: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: (Bill Princell) 13. 07:13 PM - Re: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: (dwilson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:14 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: jury struts Nope. The resonance problem is a result not a cause. By putting the connection in the exact center you are creating a "node" such that when a sideways motion occurs on one side an equal but opposite motion is induced in the other side. In essence a wave similiar to an electronic sine wave occurs. the rapid bending back and forth will eventualy rip the strut apart in the same manner as you snapping a paper clip by bending it back and forth. By moving the connecting point a short ways from center you destroy the possibilty of resonance. You don't want to make the difference in length too large however, as you could arrive at a secondary node. If you know anything about music, you'll understand this as harmonics. Clif I though jury struts where to kill/eliminate/prevent resonance on strus, that's why they are not in the midle/center of them and are so thin. Mario Giacummo ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: jury struts From: Jack Cliff, to clarify, you mean offset from the center of the strut, correct? Al so could you specify how far, an inch, foot? Is it best to offset up or down the strut? Thanks! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 25, 2013, at 2:12 AM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > Nope. The resonance problem is a result not a cause. > By putting the connection in the exact center you are > creating a "node" such that when a sideways motion > occurs on one side an equal but opposite motion > is induced in the other side. In essence a wave > similiar to an electronic sine wave occurs. the rapid > bending back and forth will eventualy rip the strut > apart in the same manner as you snapping a paper > clip by bending it back and forth. > By moving the connecting point a short ways from > center you destroy the possibilty of resonance. > You don't want to make the difference in length > too large however, as you could arrive at a secondary > node. If you know anything about music, you'll > understand this as harmonics. > > Clif > > > > > > I though jury struts where to kill/eliminate/prevent resonance on strus, t hat's why they are not in the midle/center of them and are so thin. > Mario Giacummo > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:27 AM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: jury struts Jack, I asked a similar question to Douwe yesterday and he sent me a front view picture of his Piet. By measuring the photo (I copied the picture to a piece of paper first) we determined that the jury struts were moved up the strut (toward the wing) about 6 inches. That's not necessarily the only dimension that will work but at least we know his jury struts do the job they are meant to do. The struts are not moved down the main struts because the added length of the vertical members of the jury struts would just add weight. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 7:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: jury struts Cliff, to clarify, you mean offset from the center of the strut, correct? Also could you specify how far, an inch, foot? Is it best to offset up or down the strut? Thanks! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 25, 2013, at 2:12 AM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: Nope. The resonance problem is a result not a cause. By putting the connection in the exact center you are creating a "node" such that when a sideways motion occurs on one side an equal but opposite motion is induced in the other side. In essence a wave similiar to an electronic sine wave occurs. the rapid bending back and forth will eventualy rip the strut apart in the same manner as you snapping a paper clip by bending it back and forth. By moving the connecting point a short ways from center you destroy the possibilty of resonance. You don't want to make the difference in length too large however, as you could arrive at a secondary node. If you know anything about music, you'll understand this as harmonics. Clif I though jury struts where to kill/eliminate/prevent resonance on strus, that's why they are not in the midle/center of them and are so thin. Mario Giacummo 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets in pa From: Amsafetyc June 1 LNS fly in breakfast fund raiser for CAP and the Piet is in the hangar if you're interested in visitin John Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:59 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cooling eyebrows Randy - Here you go. Hope all's good! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Bush Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 6:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cooling eyebrows Hello all, Does anyone have the drawings for Hans vandervoort's cooling eyebrows? And if so could you post them or send the m to me at randybush2@gmail.com Thanks, Randy Bush NX294RB Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cooling eyebrows From: Robert Bush Hi Gary , thanks . Yea I'm good , hope things are good with you. I guess you are enjoying that beautiful new plane.thanks for the drawings. See everybody at Brodhead, should be a good year. Randy Bush NX294RB Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2013, at 7:53 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > Randy - Here you go. Hope all's good! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Bush > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 6:51 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cooling eyebrows > > > Hello all, > Does anyone have the drawings for Hans vandervoort's cooling eyebrows? And > if so could you post them or send the m to me at randybush2@gmail.com > Thanks, Randy Bush NX294RB > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:49 AM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Engine Jeff wilsonn in St Louis, Mo has a cont. 65 for $3500. His contact is jlwilsonn@yahoo.com and there is a you tube video of it running. Dennis E From: Charles Burkholder Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Engine Hey guys I'm looking for a Continental 65 or 85 engine.... I know everybody's looking for them so I'm just throwing it out there. Doesn't have to be low time (higher cost). If you have one sitting in the corner of your hangar let me know.....Contact me on my private email.... Charles Burkholder ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:54 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: what is a "flight manual" and an "equipment list" Build it with only minimum equipment, and then you don't need one, If it's not installed, it cant cost anything, weigh anything, and it cant break. =C2- My 2 cents, Shad --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Fun2av8 wrote: From: Fun2av8 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: what is a "flight manual" and an "equipment li st" Thoughts on having a Minimum Equipment List (MEL) for a Pietenpol. It really boils down to what are your chances .... =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- You'd be ramp check by Mr. FAA =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Have an accident because of a missing/inop item that was a =9Cno go=9D item like a broken Airspeed Indicator o r an expired inspection/certification on your Altimeter. =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Your insurance company would look very unsympat hetically at the missing MEL and the situation that occurred because you di dn=99t have one. I guess I have a sort of mixed blessing.=C2- A real good friend of mine, who lives three houses down the street is in the Dulles Flight Standards Of fice and he is among other things a Ramp Checker.=C2-=C2-=C2-I overhe ard the other day at the local FBO that a couple of guys got ramp checked r ecently and it sorta went OK.=C2- Since Dulles is in our backyard - it do esn't come as a surprise that we get the ole "Hi, We're from the FAA and we 're here to help you!" greeting.=C2- SO....... to be on the safe side wit h my Piet - I've been studying the rules with lots of encouragement from my friend (?) Do Piet's have a Minimum Equipment List ?=C2- Some say we do and some say we don't.=C2- Now, If nothing ever goes wrong and you never get ramp che cked =93 maybe you don=99t need one.=C2- If my 30 years in ge neral aviation has taught me anything =93 it=99s that where the FAA is concerned =93 Yes, Henry =93 there is a rule for that! =C2- You say =9C But this rule says it don=99t apply=9D =C2- FAA says =9CTrue =93 but these two obscure rules says it does!=9D=C2- It=99s a stacked deck! Here's what you can expect a really sharp Inspector might say during your r amp check right after he/she has finished with your Weight & Balance review .=C2- May I see your MEL?=C2- (Google =9CFigure 56 FAR Part 91 Ra mp Inspection Job Aid=9D) If you say you do not need an MEL for your airplane - then he/she will use =C2- http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=Publication&doctype=MM EL and look at you with a big smile and ask you: =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Is your aircraft listed under Airplanes?=C2- =C2-=C2-..=C2-=C2-=C2-No, it=99s a Pietenpol =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Is your aircraft a Single Engine Airplane long pause .Yes=C2- .=9DGotcha !! !=9D Then since you don=99t have an MEL =93 =9CM SE Airplane R 1 -- Single Engine Airplane, Rev. 1 Date -- 11/23/2011=9D now becomes your default MEL.=C2- This MEL lists every possible piece of equipment that could conceivably be installed in a single engine airplane.=C2- Its an unbelievably long list =93 pages and pages. The Ramp Check of your airplane starts using this MEL.=C2- Now, if everyt hing in your Piet is working and you have all the required goodies (ELT, Sh oulder Harness, Day VFR instruments, Pertinent Charts, Placards, Fire Extin guisher {seen that discussed in another post}.etc.) then you are golden.=C2 - But if you are missing a mandatory item or if its broke =93 he/sh e can ground the aircraft.=C2-=C2-=C2- Luckily, there are a few caveats some of this stuff has a grandfa ther clause i.e., if your aircraft was certified before a certain date =93 the requirement for that particular item does not apply.=C2 - My Piet was built in 1988 =93 it all applies!!!!=C2- There are othe r reasons some of the stuff may or may not be required.=C2- But, you shou ld know what does and what doesn=99t =93 it=99s your airp lane.=C2- Me, I know that it=99s ALL required. Can=99t Beat=99m =93 Join=99m:=C2- Here=99s my approach =93 I=99m going to create an MEL that lists all th e Day VFR Required Equipment=C2- (91.205) and put it in the front of my O perations Manual. =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Airspeed indicator. =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Altimeter. =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Magnetic Compass and correction card =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Tachometer =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Oil pressure gauge (for each engine using press ure system) =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Temperature gauge for each liquid-cooled engine . (Not Me!) =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Oil temperature gauge (for each air-cooled engi ne) =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in e ach tank. =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-There are some work-arounds for this one. =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Safety belt with an approved metal-to-metal lat ching device =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Shoulder Harness each seat =93 Applies to Piets manufactured after July 18, 1978, =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Emergency locator transmitter =C2=A7 91.207. =A2=C2-=C2-=C2- Appropriate Placards and Warnings I am hoping that the Ramp Checker will find this more acceptable rather tha n telling him I don=99t have one.=C2- Worst case =93 he would point out something I=99m missing, ask me to correct it, and send me on my way. After all =93 when you really boil it down =93 it=99s a p iece of paper in the front of your AFM.=C2-=C2-=C2-I will post mine w hen its done =93 it will be in MS Word so you can add/change/delete e ntries as you see fit. My 2 cents on the subject .=C2- Happy Memorial Day! I welcome any corrections to the above =93 please cite references -- its good for all of us to have this stuff right and readily available. -------- Jim McWhorter N687MB (New Owner) Culpeper, VA=C2- KCJR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401310#401310 t S WEB FORUMS - on Web Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:38 AM PST US From: Bill Princell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: I have a queston about how to connect the tach to the sender. I'm using the Stewart-Warner diesel engine tach recommended by WW and want to connect it the small (pencil type) magnetic sender. The tach has a green lead wire and a gray lead wire going to the sender. The sender has a white lead wire and a black lead wire. How do I connect them correctly? Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN Corvair Powered Pietenpol Rebuild Project ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:59 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: Bill - Close your eyes and pick one. You will be right 100% of the time. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Princell Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: I have a queston about how to connect the tach to the sender. I'm using the Stewart-Warner diesel engine tach recommended by WW and want to connect it the small (pencil type) magnetic sender. The tach has a green lead wire and a gray lead wire going to the sender. The sender has a white lead wire and a black lead wire. How do I connect them correctly? Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN Corvair Powered Pietenpol Rebuild Project ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:38 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jury struts yes or no? Jury struts, absolutely! We had a Pietenpol built at Sonoma Valley Airport that left them off and had the struts collapse in moderate turbulence resulting in a double fatality. Darrel Jones Pfeifer Sport N154JP On 5/23/2013 8:20 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB wrote: > > UNCLASSIFIED > I may be reopening a previous discussion. If so just tell me shut up and search the database. > > Jury struts, Yes or no? > > While loading my fuselage on a trailer, an airport bum, unknown to me, drove up, Introduced himself as Craig, praised the Pietenpol design, told me several things to be aware of on flying the Piet and then told me all about the evils of jury struts. (Oscar Zuniga verifies the mans credentials.) > > N3379 had jury struts and I intend on putting them back on. Craig says that they put a stress point on the wing in an unnatural place. He pointed out that Bernard P never put them on his planes and they are not on the origional plans. > > Craig then discussed his thots and experiences on jury struts. He is basically agin them based on vast Model building and experimental experience. Looking at photos across the web, most Piets have Jury struts. > > I was going to blow the guy's advice off, but he claimed he knew Oscar Zuniga and had flown Scout. This caused me to pause. I checked with OZ and the guy is bona fide. > > OZ confirmed that the guy is eccentric, opinionated and has some wrong ideas. BUT he is also brilliant and really knows small planes and is an excellent small plane mechanic and has many right ideas. OZ has let him fly Scout from the back seat. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > UNCLASSIFIED > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:03 PM PST US From: Bill Princell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: Hi Gary: That was simple enough. While I still have access to your Piet/Corvair expertise, what measurement did you use to set the air gap between the tip end of the sender and the starter/flywheel ring? Thanks for your help. Bill - On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Bill ' Close your eyes and pick one. You will be right 100% of the time .** > ** > > ** ** > > Gary Boothe**** > > NX308MB**** > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Princell > *Sent:* Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:08 AM > *To:* undisclosed-recipients: > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question:*** * > > ** ** > > I have a queston about how to connect the tach to the sender. I'm using > the Stewart-Warner diesel engine tach recommended by WW and want to conne ct > it the small (pencil type) magnetic sender. The tach has a green lead wir e > and a gray lead wire going to the sender. The sender has a white lead wir e > and a black lead wire. How do I connect them correctly? > > Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN > Corvair Powered Pietenpol Rebuild Project**** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Engine Tach Sender Wiring Question: From: "dwilson" Hi ! Bill I have the SW tach. The installation instructions say that polarity is not important. One lead to the tach the other to ground. The air gap for the sender is .030. Instructions say to adjust the sender by allowing it to just touch the ring gear then back off 1/2 thread of the 3/4 X 16 UNF. Which should equal .030 from the flywheel. Model 990-K Sender Kit. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401357#401357 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.