Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:08 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars (Mild Bill)
2. 12:25 AM - Re: Jury struts... (Mild Bill)
3. 03:22 AM - Re: Re: Jury struts... (Jack Phillips)
4. 04:56 AM - insurance question again. (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 05:24 AM - Re: insurance question again. (Jack Phillips)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: insurance question again. (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB)
7. 06:25 AM - Re: Jury struts... (Bill Church)
8. 07:10 AM - Re: insurance question again. (Don Emch)
9. 07:43 AM - Re: insurance question again. (tools)
10. 08:47 AM - Re: insurance question again. (gcardinal@comcast.net)
11. 06:17 PM - Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale? (helspersew@aol.com)
12. 06:35 PM - Re: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale=?UTF-8?B?Pw==? (Perry Rhoads)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fittings on Spars |
OK. I thought you might be thinking about other places such as the tail. :D
Lengthening the strut attachment fittings to gain a little clearance for
wrenches and washers shouldn't be a problem, assuming the fittings are
at least the same thickness as specified on the early plans which had the
fittings at an angle only about 25 deg from vertical. That angle would put
an eccentric load on the fittings, and if they had enough beef to handle
that (and as far as I know there were no failures of eccentrically loaded
fittings), then they would have enough beef to handle a little extra length
when dealing with a smaller eccentric load (i.e. when the strap fitting is
oriented more in line with the strut axis.)
Something I would be more concerned about is the cross sectional area
between the bottom of the lowest bolt hole going through the spar and
the bottom of the spar. In one of the earlier pictures in this thread the
depth of this area on a proposed drilling pattern looks to be only a little
more than 1/4". The problem is that all of the lift generated outboard of
the strut attachment creates a bending moment around the point of
attachment, which moment must be resisted by compression along the
top of the spar and tension along the bottom. The wood above the neutral
axis (essentially the centerline on a spar of this type) only handles
compression. The wood between the neutral axis and the top of the
lowest bolt hole doesn't handle much tension at all. There isn't any wood
or other material to absorb tension loads through the area of the bolt
hole. (Well, the bolt is there, but who's got glue strong enough to transmit
the tension between the wood and the metal?). So it's basically up to the
area between the hole and the bottom of the spar to keep the wing
together.
A little more than 1/4" depth seems a bit skimpy. What do the plans
specify for the distance between the bottom of the spar and the bottom of
the lowest hole through the spar?
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401460#401460
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jury struts... |
Yep, that's what my father did on his Tailwind. The struts were fabricated from
streamline steel tubing originally manufactured for use as antenna masts for
some WW II fighter or trainer. A snug fitting dowel was shoved into the center
to prevent buckling if the strut bowed a little bit from negative g's.
Somebody else was testing a different Tailwind at full gross load when a sandbag
on the passenger side of the seat worked loose and fell into the gap between
the seat and the control stick, forcing the stick full forward during high speed
flight. The negative g loads were enough to bend the tubing in the fuselage
a bit, but the struts never buckled.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401461#401461
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jury struts... |
So what I can gather from this is, if you want to have a plane with no jury
struts, you should build a Tailwind (or buy a later model Cessna).
Comparing two different airplanes and saying "gee, this one doesn't have
jury struts, so that one obviously doesn't need them" is illogical.
Bernard Pietenpol was a practical man. When he designed the Pietenpol, he
used strut material that didn't require jury struts to achieve sufficient
stiffness, so his plans didn't show jury struts (but did specify the strut
material). Once that strut material was no longer available, he added jury
struts to his planes. Note the jury struts in place on the last Air Camper
he built.
Buckling under compressive loading is a real phenomenon, which occurs
anytime the length to thickness ratio of a column (strut) exceeds a critical
value, and the compressive loading exceeds a critical load (which is
surprisingly small). That ratio can be improved by either making the strut
thicker (Cessna's solution) or making it shorter (which is really what
aTailwind does - their struts are pretty short). Pietenpols, particularly
those with longer wings or centersections, or those with wings raised higher
above the fuselage (both conditions require longer lift struts) are in the
range with a length to thickness ratio that is well into the critical range.
Jury struts are easy to make, add little weight and little drag, and add
substantial safety. Not putting them on is an effective way of declaring to
the world that the builder of the airplane doesn't understand engineering.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mild Bill
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:26 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jury struts...
Yep, that's what my father did on his Tailwind. The struts were fabricated
from streamline steel tubing originally manufactured for use as antenna
masts for some WW II fighter or trainer. A snug fitting dowel was shoved
into the center to prevent buckling if the strut bowed a little bit from
negative g's.
Somebody else was testing a different Tailwind at full gross load when a
sandbag on the passenger side of the seat worked loose and fell into the gap
between the seat and the control stick, forcing the stick full forward
during high speed flight. The negative g loads were enough to bend the
tubing in the fuselage a bit, but the struts never buckled.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401461#401461
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | insurance question again. |
How that everyone is back from their weekend, I wanted to run my insurance
question by one more time.
How does insurance work when hopping rides, such as at Brodhead? What do
you guys do who have flown a lot of rides?
Got a couple of answers, but clearly, everyone is away.
Thanks!
Douwe
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | insurance question again. |
Douwe, my insurance policy (with Falcon, the EAA insurance) on my Pietenpol
covers me for $1 Million liability, if I'm flying my airplane. In addition,
the policy I have on my RV-4 covers me for hull damage up to $40,000 if I'm
flying someone else's airplane, along with the $1 Million in liability.
You need a million in liability to fly Young Eagles for the EAA, so I think
most people carry liability insurance. It doesn't cost much - maybe $300 a
year or so, depending on your ratings and experience.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: insurance question again.
How that everyone is back from their weekend, I wanted to run my insurance
question by one more time.
How does insurance work when hopping rides, such as at Brodhead? What do
you guys do who have flown a lot of rides?
Got a couple of answers, but clearly, everyone is away.
Thanks!
Douwe
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | insurance question again. |
UNCLASSIFIED
I had full coverage on my Vtail (an old one with low value) and it was about $1200,
without Hull insurance it was about $800. I have been told that full coverage
including the Piet will not be much more. That includes the $1mil liability
policy required by EAA and some enhanced medical coverage.
My Vtail is currently out of annual and I only have it covered by my renter's insurance.
If the hangar burns down, it is covered.
Except for my family's finances and the EAA requirement, I would not insure. If
I wreck the plane, Either I am hurt and don't care about the plane, or I slap
a wing to the ground, and I fix it. I will learn metal or wood and fabric work.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On 05/28/13, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Douwe, my insurance policy (with Falcon, the EAA insurance) on my Pietenpol covers
me for $1 Million liability, if I’m flying my airplane. In addition,
the policy I have on my RV-4 covers me for hull damage up to $40,000 if I’m
flying someone else’s airplane, along with the $1 Million in liability.
>
>
>
> You need a million in liability to fly Young Eagles for the EAA, so I think most
people carry liability insurance. It doesn’t cost much - maybe $300
a year or so, depending on your ratings and experience.
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:07 AM
> To: pietenpolgroup
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: insurance question again.
>
>
>
>
> How that everyone is back from their weekend, I wanted to run my insurance question
by one more time.
>
>
>
> How does insurance work when hopping rides, such as at Brodhead? What do you
guys do who have flown a lot of rides?
>
>
>
> Got a couple of answers, but clearly, everyone is away.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
UNCLASSIFIED
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jury struts... |
I think we're talking about Pietenpols.
Seriously, though, The Tailwind is a completely different design. Among other
things, the wingspan is only about 20 ft.
Bill C.
>
> Tailwind doesn't use jury struts. I think they shove a piece of wood through
the center prevent buckling from the compressive loads.
>
> Andy Abreu
> 6186L
> EAA 582
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401467#401467
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: insurance question again. |
Douwe,
The insurance company views a "passenger" as a "passenger". They don't say we
will allow you to give "a" ride, but not allow you to give one ride after another,
such as at a fly in. Is that what you mean? Unless of course there is a
named exclusion on there that would be such a thing as giving rides at a show,
but I really doubt that would exist. Nevertheless, it's always very important
to read every bit of the policy!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401470#401470
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: insurance question again. |
For the data point, my ins is through EAA, Falcon and some other underwriter or
something.
It was $350 to $400 for liability only, $850 to $950 for that and hull moving or
not ($12K value).
Lots of time and ratings, not much tail dragger. Not sure when you're considered
to have lots of tail dragger, probably a hundred or three hundred.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401473#401473
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: insurance question again. |
My liability insurance does not exclude giving rides. It also doesn't limit
the number of rides I can give.
It has the usual verbiage about not being used for hire or compensation.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:06:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: insurance question again.
How that everyone is back from their weekend, I wanted to run my insurance
question by one more time.
=C2-
How does insurance work when hopping rides, such as at Brodhead?=C2- What
do you guys do who have flown a lot of rides?
=C2-
Got a couple of answers, but clearly, everyone is away.
=C2-
Thanks!
=C2-
============
==
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale? |
Hello Good People,
I kind of lost track of the whereabouts of the Official Scale. I would like
to get ahold of it for a special test. Could the present possessor please
chime in?
Thanks,
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale=?UTF-8?B?Pw==? |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Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|