---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/31/13: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:50 AM - Re: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale? (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 04:43 AM - Brodhead camping (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 04:46 AM - Re: Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 (Amsafetyc) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 (Dan Yocum) 5. 06:05 AM - Re: Brodhead camping (Bill Church) 6. 06:42 AM - Re: fuel flow (Rick Schreiber) 7. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Brodhead camping (Jack) 8. 07:22 AM - Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 (Baldeagle) 9. 07:56 AM - Re: fuel flow (Ken Bickers) 10. 08:15 AM - Re: fuel flow (Gary Boothe) 11. 09:17 AM - what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 12. 09:27 AM - Gas tank strap padding (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 13. 09:33 AM - Re: what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in (Gary Boothe) 14. 09:45 AM - Re: Gas tank strap padding (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 15. 10:05 AM - Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) (Michael Perez) 16. 10:09 AM - Re: fuel flow (Michael Perez) 17. 10:19 AM - Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) (John Hofmann) 18. 10:30 AM - Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) (tools) 19. 10:42 AM - Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) (Scott Knowlton) 20. 10:44 AM - Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 21. 10:44 AM - Re: Gas tank strap padding (taildrags) 22. 10:45 AM - Re: Gas tank strap padding (taildrags) 23. 10:50 AM - Re: what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in (Catdesigns) 24. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 (Dan Yocum) 25. 02:04 PM - Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (Allan Macklem) 26. 02:04 PM - Re: fuel flow (Rick) 27. 02:19 PM - Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) (C N Campbell) 28. 02:26 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (C N Campbell) 29. 02:27 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (C N Campbell) 30. 02:53 PM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (Scott Liefeld) 31. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Gas tank strap padding (Ken Bickers) 32. 03:08 PM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (Michael Groah) 33. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Gas tank strap padding (Ken Bickers) 34. 03:11 PM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (Gary Boothe) 35. 03:16 PM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (Patrick Panzera) 36. 03:32 PM - Re: fuel flow (Michael Perez) 37. 03:44 PM - Alternative Engine Round up (Oscar Zuniga) 38. 03:48 PM - Center section rear cutout. (Charles Burkholder) 39. 04:07 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (Michael Perez) 40. 04:07 PM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (Scott Liefeld) 41. 04:13 PM - Re: Center section rear cutout. (Rick) 42. 04:17 PM - Re: Center section rear cutout. (Michael Perez) 43. 04:24 PM - Re: Center section rear cutout. (nightmare) 44. 04:33 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (nightmare) 45. 04:54 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (nightmare) 46. 04:57 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (markmckellar@reagan.com) 47. 05:08 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (jarheadpilot82) 48. 07:18 PM - Fuel tank pictures (Rick Schreiber) 49. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (Jim Boyer) 50. 09:52 PM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (Mark Roberts) 51. 09:53 PM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (Mark Roberts) 52. 10:00 PM - Re: Alternative Engine Round up (Mark Roberts) 53. 10:12 PM - Re: Center section rear cutout. (Mark Roberts) 54. 10:52 PM - Re: what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in (Mark Roberts) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale? From: helspersew@aol.com Please send it to 265 Marvin Ln., Puryear, TN 38251. Thanks!! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Perry Rhoads Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 4:04 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale ? Should have been "DAN", where do I send the scale? Brain fart.............. ----- Original Message ----- From: Perry Rhoads Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Sca le? Larry, I still haven't heard from you on where to send the scale. Perry Rhoads ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish S cale? Holy Cow Larry, I just noticed the attached pic of your plane Gorgeous! ! You should be very proud!! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: l.morlock Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 8:28 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish S cale? Dan, when you are finished with the "special test" I'm still interested in getting the Official Scale. I'm almost ready for the D.A.R. Larry Morlock ----- Original Message ----- From: Perry Rhoads Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale? Hi Dan, I'm the guilty party! I was to ship it to the next user awhile back. Then I was out of town and completely forgot about it. Tell me where it needs to go and I'll get it shipped. Perry Rhoads N12939 Sent from my Motorola ATRIX=84=A2 4G on AT&T -----Original message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 01:16:40 GMT+00:00 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Location of Official Pietenpol List Fish Scale? Hello Good People, I kind of lost track of the whereabouts of the Official Scale. I wo uld like to get ahold of it for a special test. Could the present p ossessor please chime in? Thanks, Dan Helsper Puryear, TN href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank"http://forums.matroni cs.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/c" target="_blank"http://www.matronics.c om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,g=EF=BD=EF=BD href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:14 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead camping Camping is encouraged at Brodhead with a few "rules". Remember to pay your camping "donation" at the little table under the covered tables, it's like five bucks or so and you get a souvenir pin and help their efforts. Campers, tents etc in areas on the east wide of the closed runway which is the area next to the entrance road where all the hangars are. People camp along the treeline on the west side of the closed runway but it is designated ONLY for tent camping and last year they wouldn't even let a vehicle drive over there, you had to carry all your stuff across. Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 From: Amsafetyc Don't know about yours but I'm pulling mine on to the field again John Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2013, at 10:05 PM, "John Francis" wrote: > > Would they allow me to pull my camper onto the grounds? > > -------- > John Francis > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401637#401637 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:59 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 RVs and large campers are restricted to the east side of the field. I think only tents are allowed on the west side but maybe I've seen pop-ups over there. Ah, yes - Gary Bell's itty-bitty one-person camper has been allowed. I think the issues are 2 fold - damage to the field by numbnuts who drive straight across the closed runways instead of driving around the south end of the field and, secondly, generator noise. I, for one, much prefer to listen to the constant drone of the gas powered water pump driving the field irrigator at the north end of the airport. PM - glad to hear you'll be draggin' your wagon to Brodhead! Do not archive -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com On May 31, 2013, at 6:46 AM, Amsafetyc wrote: > > Don't know about yours but I'm pulling mine on to the field again > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 30, 2013, at 10:05 PM, "John Francis" wrote: > >> >> Would they allow me to pull my camper onto the grounds? >> >> -------- >> John Francis >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401637#401637 > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead camping From: "Bill Church" As Douwe said, camping at Brodhead is operated on a donation basis. However, I would suggest that the donation be a little more generous than five bucks. That would barely cover the cost of the souvenir pin, let alone renting the porta-potties and providing hot water for showers. I think twenty per person might be a better starting point (feel free to go up from there). Typical fees at a campground run at least 20 dollars a night, so it's still a bargain. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401659#401659 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:26 AM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow On 5/30/2013 11:13 AM, C N Campbell wrote: > > > Rick, no body to the message. C I'll try this again...... I rolled out the Piet Wednesday for the first fueling. I wanted to check fuel flow, primer function and if I had any leaks. I have a 19 gal nose tank and a Stromberg NAS3B carb. Initially I added 1/2 gal of fuel and allowed it to drain completely at a angle of attack of about 20 deg. When I checked for the remaining unusable fuel it was only about 4 oz! Next I added the 1/2 gallon back in and checked for fuel flow. With my Corvair engine the FARs say I should have a fuel flow at the carb of at least 9 gph, if the Corvair burns 6 gph. What I was able to measure was a fuel flow of 22.5 gph. The primer worked fine and there were no leaks. As soon as the prop comes in I will be ready for first engine start. Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead camping From: Jack That's what I do Bill. Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On May 31, 2013, at 8:04 AM, "Bill Church" wrote: > > As Douwe said, camping at Brodhead is operated on a donation basis. However, I would suggest that the donation be a little more generous than five bucks. That would barely cover the cost of the souvenir pin, let alone renting the porta-potties and providing hot water for showers. I think twenty per person might be a better starting point (feel free to go up from there). Typical fees at a campground run at least 20 dollars a night, so it's still a bargain. > Bill C. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401659#401659 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 From: "Baldeagle" Ummmm, check the thread title.... and first post........ - - - - - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401668#401668 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow From: Ken Bickers Rick, sounds great. Congratulations on your progress. Ken On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Rick Schreiber wrote: > On 5/30/2013 11:13 AM, C N Campbell wrote: > >> cncampbell@windstream.net> >> >> Rick, no body to the message. C >> > I'll try this again...... > > I rolled out the Piet Wednesday for the first fueling. I wanted to check > fuel flow, primer function and if I had any leaks. I have a 19 gal nose > tank and a Stromberg NAS3B carb. Initially I added 1/2 gal of fuel and > allowed it to drain completely at a angle of attack of about 20 deg. When I > checked for the remaining unusable fuel it was only about 4 oz! Next I > added the 1/2 gallon back in and checked for fuel flow. With my Corvair > engine the FARs say I should have a fuel flow at the carb of at least 9 > gph, if the Corvair burns 6 gph. What I was able to measure was a fuel flow > of 22.5 gph. The primer worked fine and there were no leaks. As soon as the > prop comes in I will be ready for first engine start. > > Rick Schreiber > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:25 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow Lookin' good, Rick!! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schreiber Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow On 5/30/2013 11:13 AM, C N Campbell wrote: > > > Rick, no body to the message. C I'll try this again...... I rolled out the Piet Wednesday for the first fueling. I wanted to check fuel flow, primer function and if I had any leaks. I have a 19 gal nose tank and a Stromberg NAS3B carb. Initially I added 1/2 gal of fuel and allowed it to drain completely at a angle of attack of about 20 deg. When I checked for the remaining unusable fuel it was only about 4 oz! Next I added the 1/2 gallon back in and checked for fuel flow. With my Corvair engine the FARs say I should have a fuel flow at the carb of at least 9 gph, if the Corvair burns 6 gph. What I was able to measure was a fuel flow of 22.5 gph. The primer worked fine and there were no leaks. As soon as the prop comes in I will be ready for first engine start. Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:12 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in Hope you all have a great time this weekend at the West Coast Piet gatherin g at his gorgeous airport! Frazier Lake Airport just north of Hollister, CA. Photo by Tom Reeves. [cid:image001.png@01CE5DF8.AD01C510] ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:24 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gas tank strap padding UNCLASSIFIED Now for my questions on Fuel tank straps. I am installing the front fuel tank. The straps are ready but I need to put something onto the aluminum straps that will hold my front tank for vibration. IE lining the straps with a rubber strap. I am currently doing a test on some foam and rubber that I have on hand. They I have used some Neoprene type rubber in other gas tank repairs. Perhaps McMaster-Carr. The straps will not set in gas, but gas will at some point be spilled on them. One similar situation is on the straps that hold my oil tank/cooler in my old Bonanza (it is a dry sump with an external oil tank.) One current Bonanza guru uses a heat shrink wrap over the foam rubber since the origional is no longer available. Any Ideas from the Peanut gallery? What have you used. BTW The oil cooler/tank on my 1948 Vtail is an elegantly simple solution. The oil is pumped up to the tank from the engine and dumped on top of the side of a bundle of 50 or so "straws" inside the tank. The straws are on 1/2 of the tank, open ended to the outside and oriented so that the open ends face into and away from the airflow in the engine compartment. Cooling air blows through the straws as the hot oil flows around the straws. Cool Oil is too thick to flow between the straws. This cool oil overflows a "dam" and flows to the side of the tank without the straws and is dumped into the bottom of the tank and is sent back to the engine. As it warms up, it flows through the straws more until it is thin and all flows through the cooling straws. Very simple, no moving parts, valves, or anything mechanical to break. Blue Skies, Steve D UNCLASSIFIED ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in From: Gary Boothe At least there are no trees to crash into! Sent from my iPhone On May 31, 2013, at 9:16 AM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, L LC]" wrote: > Hope you all have a great time this weekend at the West Coast Piet gatheri ng at his gorgeous airport! > > Frazier Lake Airport just north of Hollister, CA. Photo by Tom Reeves. > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:27 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gas tank strap padding UNCLASSIFIED One more detail. The Aux tank, Top wing, has a felt padding. Steve On 05/31/13, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" wrote: > > UNCLASSIFIED > Now for my questions on Fuel tank straps. > > I am installing the front fuel tank. The straps are ready but I need to put something onto the aluminum straps that will hold my front tank for vibration. IE lining the straps with a rubber strap. > > I am currently doing a test on some foam and rubber that I have on hand. They I have used some Neoprene type rubber in other gas tank repairs. Perhaps McMaster-Carr. > > The straps will not set in gas, but gas will at some point be spilled on them. > One similar situation is on the straps that hold my oil tank/cooler in my old Bonanza (it is a dry sump with an external oil tank.) One current Bonanza guru uses a heat shrink wrap > over the foam rubber since the origional is no longer available. > > Any Ideas from the Peanut gallery? What have you used. > > BTW The oil cooler/tank on my 1948 Vtail is an elegantly simple solution. The oil is pumped up to the tank from the engine and dumped on top of the side of a bundle of 50 or so "straws" inside the tank. The straws are on 1/2 of the tank, open ended to the outside and oriented so that the open ends face into and away from the airflow in the engine compartment. Cooling air blows through the straws as the hot oil flows around the straws. > > Cool Oil is too thick to flow between the straws. This cool oil overflows a "dam" and flows to the side of the tank without the straws and is dumped into the bottom of the tank and is sent back to the engine. As it warms up, it flows through the straws more until it is thin and all flows through the cooling straws. > > Very simple, no moving parts, valves, or anything mechanical to break. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > UNCLASSIFIED > UNCLASSIFIED ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:54 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) Speaking of building a second plane, anyone know of a 4 place home-built? I know the Cozy is one, but I would be more interested in wood, maybe fabric , etc.- No plans at the moment to build a second plane, but perhaps in th e future I will either be building...or buying another. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com No problem Oscar. Its a small enough group as it is, cant imagine many peop le (especially married ones) that have been able to build more than one. I love the build process and could definitely imagine a second plane. Not sur e if my marriage would survive it though. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:14 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow Rick, would you mind sharing some pictures of your fuel tank? It sounds like it functions very nice. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:25 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) If you want a good plane with traditional building materials as well as being plans-built, I would look at the Bearhawk. Bob Barrows has done a nice job there. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On May 31, 2013, at 12:05 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > > Speaking of building a second plane, anyone know of a 4 place home-built? I know the Cozy is one, but I would be more interested in wood, maybe fabric, etc. No plans at the moment to build a second plane, but perhaps in the future I will either be building...or buying another. > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > No problem Oscar. Its a small enough group as it is, cant imagine many people (especially married ones) that have been able to build more than one. I love the build process and could definitely imagine a second plane. Not sure if my marriage would survive it though. > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:38 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) From: "tools" I'd second the Bearhawk. My dad started one, but bailed. Just a nice looking plane, nice features, good numbers. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401681#401681 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:55 AM PST US From: "Scott Knowlton " Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) Micheal, if you want to stay all wood the Miranda is a great example of a four seat airplane with a good track record. You can find it and the plans on the Falconar website - Chris Falconar same guy who invented and sells Hipec fabric. Scott Knowlton Burlington ON -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) Speaking of building a second plane, anyone know of a 4 place home-built? I know the Cozy is one, but I would be more interested in wood, maybe fabric, etc. No plans at the moment to build a second plane, but perhaps in the future I will either be building...or buying another. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com No problem Oscar. Its a small enough group as it is, cant imagine many people (especially married ones) that have been able to build more than one. I love the build process and could definitely imagine a second plane. Not sure if my marriage would survive it though. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:29 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) UNCLASSIFIED The Falco is pretty, but has a very long build time. Blue Skies, Steve D On 05/31/13, Michael Perez wrote: > > Speaking of building a second plane, anyone know of a 4 place home-built? I know the Cozy is one, but I would be more interested in wood, maybe fabric, etc. No plans at the moment to build a second plane, but perhaps in the future I will either be building...or buying another. > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > > > > No problem Oscar. Its a small enough group as it is, cant imagine many people (especially married ones) that have been able to build more than one. I love the build process and could definitely imagine a second plane. Not sure if my marriage would survive it though. > > > > -------- > > Paul Donahue > > Started 8-3-12 > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > UNCLASSIFIED ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gas tank strap padding From: "taildrags" Steve: the tank straps on Scout are padded with felt, maybe 1/4" thick. Not sure where Corky got it. The felt is tacked/glued onto the metal straps to keep it in place. You can see it in the second picture up from the bottom, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/incident.html -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401682#401682 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gas tank strap padding From: "taildrags" Oops... third picture from the bottom, not second picture. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401685#401685 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in From: "Catdesigns" It even has a pond if Gary's wheels happen to fall off for some unknown reason.. -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401688#401688 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:36 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: On to Brodhead fly-in, Indiana, July 23 Oh, bugger. Saw PMDanger reply, got as far as "Brodhead" and stopped reading. Hell, everyone knows Brodhead ain't in Indiana. Do not archive -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com On May 30, 2013, at 8:18 PM, "Baldeagle" wrote: > > Just a bump, for your planning purposes. Or you could drive your Model T.... > > http://henryshoosiers.com/hagerstown-antique-plane-flying-circus-model-t-museum-driving-tour/ > > > > - > > -------- > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401630#401630 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:35 PM PST US From: "Allan Macklem" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil I=92m sure some of you that have built Riblett 612 ribs can help with this. I purchased the 612 plans several years ago and when I started to build ribs recently I found that the paper template had shrunk. So, using the X,Y plot points provided I decided to loft a new template. The upper and lower points are plotted and connected and the profile and outer dimensions look correct. My problem is how to locate the spars. I see that the center to center measurement between the =BE=94 spars is 28 =BE=94, but where on the X axis is the main spar located? Are the spars perpendicular to the cord line or relative to something else? The template I received shows them canted forward about five degrees from perpendicular to the cord. The same is true of the internal braces. Is there anything that tells exactly where they go? I=92m uncomfortable with all of this because with so much precision in an airfoil I=92d like to think there is a function or purpose for most of the dimensions. Allan Macklem Late Starter Elkhorn, NE ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow From: Rick Michael, There is a side view drawing without dimensions on West Coast Piet. When I g et home from the airport tonight I will try and post pictures and a dimensio ned drawing. Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad On May 31, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Michael Perez wrote : > > Rick, would you mind sharing some pictures of your fuel tank? It sounds li ke it functions very nice. > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:25 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) Michael, I bought an old rag (literally) of a PA-22 and converted it to a PA-20 Pacer during a rebuild. I REALLY liked that airplane. It had a 150 Lycoming and it was a lot of fun. Carried 4 grownups very nicely. Would be great for you, wife, and your two kids. Attached pic is not very good, but it will give you an idea of what it was. Mama has the good pictures framed so I can't scan one of them. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 1:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) Speaking of building a second plane, anyone know of a 4 place home-built? I know the Cozy is one, but I would be more interested in wood, maybe fabric, etc. No plans at the moment to build a second plane, but perhaps in the future I will either be building...or buying another. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com No problem Oscar. Its a small enough group as it is, cant imagine many people (especially married ones) that have been able to build more than one. I love the build process and could definitely imagine a second plane. Not sure if my marriage would survive it though. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:33 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Macklem To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 5:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil I'm sure some of you that have built Riblett 612 ribs can help with this. I purchased the 612 plans several years ago and when I started to build ribs recently I found that the paper template had shrunk. So, using the X,Y plot points provided I decided to loft a new template. The upper and lower points are plotted and connected and the profile and outer dimensions look correct. My problem is how to locate the spars. I see that the center to center measurement between the =BE" spars is 28 =BE", but where on the X axis is the main spar located? Are the spars perpendicular to the cord line or relative to something else? The template I received shows them canted forward about five degrees from perpendicular to the cord. The same is true of the internal braces. Is there anything that tells exactly where they go? I'm uncomfortable with all of this because with so much precision in an airfoil I'd like to think there is a function or purpose for most of the dimensions. Allan Macklem Late Starter Elkhorn, NE ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:51 PM PST US From: "C N Campbell" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil Michael, why don't you help Allan out -- didn't you use the 612 Riblett? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Macklem To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 5:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil I'm sure some of you that have built Riblett 612 ribs can help with this. I purchased the 612 plans several years ago and when I started to build ribs recently I found that the paper template had shrunk. So, using the X,Y plot points provided I decided to loft a new template. The upper and lower points are plotted and connected and the profile and outer dimensions look correct. My problem is how to locate the spars. I see that the center to center measurement between the =BE" spars is 28 =BE", but where on the X axis is the main spar located? Are the spars perpendicular to the cord line or relative to something else? The template I received shows them canted forward about five degrees from perpendicular to the cord. The same is true of the internal braces. Is there anything that tells exactly where they go? I'm uncomfortable with all of this because with so much precision in an airfoil I'd like to think there is a function or purpose for most of the dimensions. Allan Macklem Late Starter Elkhorn, NE ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering From: Scott Liefeld TWlrZSBNYWRyaWQgYW5kIG15IHNlbGYgYXJlIGhlcmUuIEFscmVhZHkgaGF2ZSBzZWVuIENoYXJs aWUuIFdoZW4gc2hvdWxkIHdlIGJlIHNlZWluZyB0aGUgcmVzdCBvZiB5b3UgZm9sa3M/CkNoZWVy cywgU2NvdHQgTGllZmVsZAoKU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IE1PVE9ST0xBIEFUUklY4oSiIEhEIG9uIEFU JlQKCk1pY2hhZWwgR3JvYWggPGRza29ncm92ZXJAeWFob28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToKCj4KPgo+Cj5U byB0aG9zZSBwbGFubmluZyBvbiBmbHlpbmcgaW50byB0aGUgV2VzdCBDb2FzdCBQaWV0ZW5wb2wg R2F0aGVyaW5nIHRoaXMgU2F0dXJkYXkgeW91IG5lZWQgdG8gcmVtZW1iZXIgeW91ciBzdGFrZXMg YW5kIHJvcGUgb3Igb3RoZXIgdGllIGRvd25zIcKgIAo+Cj4KPlRoaXMgaXMgZ29pbmcgdG8gYmUg YSBncmVhdCB3ZWVrZW5kIGFuZCBpdCBsb29rcyBsaWtlIHdlJ3JlIGdvaW5nIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBn cmVhdCB0dXJub3V0LsKgIEkgbG9vayBmb3J3YXJkIHRvIHNlZWluZyBhbGwgb2YgeW91IHRoZXJl LsKgCj4KPgo+TWlrZSBHcm9haAo+Cg= ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gas tank strap padding From: Ken Bickers I also used felt strips for my fuel tank straps. Aircraft Spruce sells it with an adhesive backing. I couldn't find true felt anywhere locally until one day I was in our local Ace Hardware looking for some household items. There it was, on a bottom shelf, looking right back at me, near the parts for garage door repairs. It turns out that felt strips are used to better seal between the horizontal garage door panels to keep out the wind and cold. It comes in varying widths and was remarkably cheap, no doubt because it apparently didn't occur to anyone to sell it for airplane use. Cheers, Ken On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:45 AM, taildrags wrote: > > Oops... third picture from the bottom, not second picture. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401685#401685 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:23 PM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering I'll be there in the morning!=0A=0AMike Groah=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________ _________________=0A From: Scott Liefeld =0ATo: Michael G roah =0ACc: Piet List ; Gary Boothe ; Fritz Watson ; Larry Kruchten ; John Doig ; George Benson ; glenf@ccountry.com; thephoebusc@aol.com; Wa lt Bowe ; Patrick Panzera ; Pat Panzera =0ASent: Friday, May 31, 2013 2:52 PM=0ASubject: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering=0A =0A=0A=0AMik e Madrid and my self are here. Already have seen Charlie. When should we be seeing the rest of you folks?=0ACheers, Scott Liefeld=0A=0ASent from my MO TOROLA ATRIX=84=A2 HD on AT&T=0A=0AMichael Groah wrote:=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ATo those planning on flying into the West Coast Pie tenpol Gathering this Saturday you need to remember your stakes and rope or other tie downs!=C2- =0A=0A=0AThis is going to be a great weekend and it looks like we're going to have a great turnout.=C2- I look forward to se eing all of you there.=C2-=0A=0AMike Groah ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gas tank strap padding From: Ken Bickers Clarification. I used the felt strips as cushioning material between the fuel tanks and the metal straps that do the work holding the tanks in place. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: > I also used felt strips for my fuel tank straps. Aircraft Spruce sells it > with an adhesive backing. I couldn't find true felt anywhere locally until > one day I was in our local Ace Hardware looking for some household items. > There it was, on a bottom shelf, looking right back at me, near the parts > for garage door repairs. It turns out that felt strips are used to better > seal between the horizontal garage door panels to keep out the wind and > cold. It comes in varying widths and was remarkably cheap, no doubt > because it apparently didn't occur to anyone to sell it for airplane use. > Cheers, Ken > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:45 AM, taildrags wrote: > >> >> Oops... third picture from the bottom, not second picture. >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401685#401685 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:47 PM PST US From: Gary Boothe Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering 11 ish tomorrow Sent from my iPhone On May 31, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Scott Liefeld wrote: > Mike Madrid and my self are here. Already have seen Charlie. When should w e be seeing the rest of you folks? > Cheers, Scott Liefeld > > Sent from my MOTOROLA ATRIX=84=A2 HD on AT&T > > > Michael Groah wrote: > > > > To those planning on flying into the West Coast Pietenpol Gathering this S aturday you need to remember your stakes and rope or other tie downs! > > This is going to be a great weekend and it looks like we're going to have a great turnout. I look forward to seeing all of you there. > > Mike Groah ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:19 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering From: Patrick Panzera And for those of you who can, please join us next weekend at Marysville! http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html Pat On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Scott Liefeld wrote: > Mike Madrid and my self are here. Already have seen Charlie. When should > we be seeing the rest of you folks? > Cheers, Scott Liefeld > > *Sent from my MOTOROLA ATRIX=99 HD on AT&T* > > > Michael Groah wrote: > > > To those planning on flying into the West Coast Pietenpol Gathering this > Saturday you need to remember your stakes and rope or other tie downs! > > This is going to be a great weekend and it looks like we're going to have > a great turnout. I look forward to seeing all of you there. > > Mike Groah > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:50 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel flow Thanks Rick. My tank is complete and installed, but I always like to see how others fabricate/build things. Looking forward to the pictures. Thanks again. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:36 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternative Engine Round up Here's a reminder about the Alternative Engine Round-up which is June 8 in Marysville=2C CA: http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html This plane has already registered: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470281659713290&set=a.155149867 893139.38719.133387926736000&type=1&theater What's an alternative engine? How about a Ford Fiesta=2C Mitsubishi forkli ft=2C Corvair=2C or many other such engines that Piets have been powered wi th over the years? Does that mean there won't be any Lycoming/Continental/ Franklin/Tigre engines there? No=2C probably not =3Bo) Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:46 PM PST US From: "Charles Burkholder" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section rear cutout. Hi guys I was just getting ready to fire up my table saw tonight to cut out the trailing edge piece for the center section when I thought about making the rear semicircle cutout from the center section. Would you greatly recommend this and is it hard to do? Does it greatly help getting in and out of the cockpit? Thanks in advance.... CB ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:52 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil I am just now seeing Alan's Riblett question. I doubt I can help much, but. .. - "So, using the X,Y plot points provided I decided to loft a new template." -- I am not sure what you mean. I am looking at my original-612 print , (from 9/5/06) and do not see any X/Y plots.- - My print has the trailing edge drawn...both side and top views.- From the tip of the trailing edge to the rear face of the first vertical support, i t is shown as 11-3/4" on the drawing. From that point to the rear face of t he rear spar, I measure another 11-3/4". From the rear face of the rear spa r to the rear face of the front spar is 28-3/4", as you already noted. draw ing uses 3/4" spars. All of these measurements are measure along the bottom of the airfoil. - If I may be of any further assistance, please let me know. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering From: Scott Liefeld VGhhbmtzIGd1eXMKClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBNT1RPUk9MQSBBVFJJWOKEoiBIRCBvbiBBVCZUCgpG cml0eiBXYXRzb24gPGZ3YXRzb25AYWFzY3dvcmxkLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+VG9vIHdpbmR5IHVw IGhlcmUgaW4gQ2hpY28gZm9yIG15IGxpdHRsZSBQaWV0Li4uLnRlbnRpdGl2ZQo+Cj5Gcml0eiBX YXRzb24KPkJ1c2luZXNzIERldmVsb3BtZW50IE1ncgo+QXBwbGllZCBBZXJvc3BhY2UgU3RydWN0 dXJlcyBDb3JwLgo+U3RvY2t0b24sIENBIDk1MjA2Cj4oMjA5KSA5OTMtNDgxOSBtb2JpbGUKPigy MDkpIDk4My0zMzMyIG9mZmljZQo+Cj5TZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lCj4KPk9uIE1heSAzMSwg MjAxMywgYXQgMzoxMSBQTSwgIkdhcnkgQm9vdGhlIiA8Z2Jvb3RoZTVAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ8bWFp bHRvOmdib290aGU1QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0Pj4gd3JvdGU6Cj4KPjExIGlzaCB0b21vcnJvdwo+Cj5T ZW50IGZyb20gbXkgaVBob25lCj4KPk9uIE1heSAzMSwgMjAxMywgYXQgMjo1MiBQTSwgU2NvdHQg TGllZmVsZCA8cGlldG1hbkBxbmV0LmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cGlldG1hbkBxbmV0LmNvbT4+IHdyb3Rl Ogo+Cj5NaWtlIE1hZHJpZCBhbmQgbXkgc2VsZiBhcmUgaGVyZS4gQWxyZWFkeSBoYXZlIHNlZW4g Q2hhcmxpZS4gV2hlbiBzaG91bGQgd2UgYmUgc2VlaW5nIHRoZSByZXN0IG9mIHlvdSBmb2xrcz8K PkNoZWVycywgU2NvdHQgTGllZmVsZAo+Cj5TZW50IGZyb20gbXkgTU9UT1JPTEEgQVRSSVjihKIg SEQgb24gQVQmVAo+Cj4KPk1pY2hhZWwgR3JvYWggPGRza29ncm92ZXJAeWFob28uY29tPG1haWx0 bzpkc2tvZ3JvdmVyQHlhaG9vLmNvbT4+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4KPgo+VG8gdGhvc2UgcGxhbm5pbmcg b24gZmx5aW5nIGludG8gdGhlIFdlc3QgQ29hc3QgUGlldGVucG9sIEdhdGhlcmluZyB0aGlzIFNh dHVyZGF5IHlvdSBuZWVkIHRvIHJlbWVtYmVyIHlvdXIgc3Rha2VzIGFuZCByb3BlIG9yIG90aGVy IHRpZSBkb3ducyEKPgo+VGhpcyBpcyBnb2luZyB0byBiZSBhIGdyZWF0IHdlZWtlbmQgYW5kIGl0 IGxvb2tzIGxpa2Ugd2UncmUgZ29pbmcgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIGdyZWF0IHR1cm5vdXQuICBJIGxvb2sg Zm9yd2FyZCB0byBzZWVpbmcgYWxsIG9mIHlvdSB0aGVyZS4KPgo+TWlrZSBHcm9haAo+Cj4KPl9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4KPkNPTkZJREVOVElBTElUWSBOT1RJQ0U6 IElmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZS1tYWlsIGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2UgaW1tZWRp YXRlbHkgbm90aWZ5IHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYnkgZS1tYWlsIGF0IHRoZSBhZGRyZXNzIHNob3duLiBU aGlzIGUtbWFpbCB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIGluZm9ybWF0 aW9uLiBUaGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIG9ubHkgZm9yIHRoZSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhl IGluZGl2aWR1YWwocykgb3IgZW50aXR5IHRvIHdob20gaXQgaXMgaW50ZW5kZWQgZXZlbiBpZiBh ZGRyZXNzZWQgaW5jb3JyZWN0bHkuIFBsZWFzZSBkZWxldGUgaXQgZnJvbSB5b3VyIGZpbGVzIGlm IHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQuIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBj b21wbGlhbmNlLgo+Cg= ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center section rear cutout. From: Rick Charles, When I started my project 10 years ago I did not plan on putting in a cut ou t or a flop. Seven years ago I was far enough along that I was able to put t he center section above the fuselage with mocked up cardboard wing bottoms. I tried getting in and out of the fuselage with the fuselage in the proper on the ground stance. Fast forward to last summer and the wings are on, the ce nter section is on and the fuselage is on its gear. My cabanes are extended 2 inches and I slanted the wing back 4 inches for testing. I could get in but it was more difficult. My AP/IA kept trying to tell me to put in a flop or a cutout but I resisted. Finally, I sat in the cockpit for one hour then trie d to get out. I did it, but it was a struggle. I decided then to take the ce nter section home and install a flop. What a difference! It was only a half d ays work, but well worth it. It would have been a whole lot easier if I did i t during the original center section construction. If you go to Chris Tracy's West Coast Piet site and look under my photos, yo u can see a photo of my set up. Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad On May 31, 2013, at 5:49 PM, "Charles Burkholder" w rote: > Hi guys I was just getting ready to fire up my table saw tonight to cut o ut the trailing edge piece for the center section when I thought about makin g the rear semicircle cutout from the center section. Would you greatly reco mmend this and is it hard to do? Does it greatly help getting in and out of t he cockpit? Thanks in advance.... > CB > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:27 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center section rear cutout. I did the "typical" rounded cut out in my CS. However, if doing it again, I would consider a "flop" instead. I believe there is some debate as to if r emoving the rear of the CS for the cutout decreases lift/performance, howev er a flop leaves the CS airfoil shape completely intact and still hinges ou t of the way to get in/out. - I personally prefer the ascetics of the cutout, but a flop sounds to be a " win-win." - Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section rear cutout. From: "nightmare" opinions vary. but i think a flop is the way to go. The cutout reduces some lift (as noted by B.H. Pietenpol pg 33 of the yellow Pietenpol notes that D.H. Pietenpol published.) He recommended the flop for that reason. I personally don't have any experience in flying in one with the cutout, but have heard several others mention how the wind goes right down your back in flight. Just guessing, but the cutout might disrupt the air over the tail surface at high angles of attack as well. I'm sure many love the cutout "look", i personally like the "look" and efficiency of a straight trailing edge. I imagine ease of entry is identical in both cutout and flop. I'm a pro flop kind of guy. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401709#401709 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil From: "nightmare" this was in the archive. copied it a while ago if this helps. I drafted the 613.5 and compared it to a full size plan i aquired else where. it was accurate. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401710#401710 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1427_167.png ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil From: "nightmare" sorry, misread the question. (The following is from memory, on the road and away from my plans/notes, so please verify). not sure about the 612, but with the 613.5 the spars are not perpendicular to the chord line. Pretty sure that is what you are running in to.t if you level the bottom of the spars,(use same length cabane struts fore and aft) the angle of incidence is 2 degrees. this is what is specified in the Piet plans if i remember right. The original wing requires the front cabane strut to be 1 inch longer to get that angle of incedence (spars should be parallel to chord line in original wing).The way i understand it, that needed 2 degree angle of incidence is built in, so to speak, to the rib itself. Also, My 613.5 plans have the front and back spars parallel with each other and both resting on the bottom capstrip. hope i'm making sense of this. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401712#401712 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil From: markmckellar@reagan.com Michael, Did you build your ribs with the spars perpendicular to the chord line? Mark McKellar Mt. Pleasant TX -----Original Message----- From: "Michael Perez" Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 6:07pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil I am just now seeing Alan's Riblett question. I doubt I can help much, but... "So, using the X,Y plot points provided I decided to loft a new template." I am not sure what you mean. I am looking at my original612 print, (from 9/5/06) and do not see any X/Y plots. My print has the trailing edge drawn...both side and top views. From the tip of the trailing edge to the rear face of the first vertical support, it is shown as 11-3/4" on the drawing. From that point to the rear face of the rear spar, I measure another 11-3/4". From the rear face of the rear spar to the rear face of the front spar is 28-3/4", as you already noted. drawing uses 3/4" spars. All of these measurements are measure along the bottom of the airfoil. If I may be of any further assistance, please let me know. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil From: "jarheadpilot82" FWIW, I did my 613.5 the way it sounds like Paul did. Spars are perpendicular in reference to the lower cap strip. Also, I built the ribs anticipating a 1 inch spar. I then used the same measurements as the Pietenpol airfoil ( 6 and 3/4" from nose to front face of the front spar, 28 and 3/4" front face of front spar to face of rear spar, etc). I hope that helps. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401714#401714 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:07 PM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank pictures Michael, As promised here are some photos of my fuel tank installation. The total volume as planned and then by actual measurement came out to 19 gal. There is plenty of clearance for the front passenger including lots of room for operating the rudder pedals. If anyone would like to see dimensioned drawings I can post them later. 19 gal will probably give me 2 hrs and 45 min with a half hour reserve. Probably the only time I will fly with a full tank is going to Brodhead. ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:51 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering Hi Scott, Arl ene and I are here as well but don[t know the combination to get in the airport. We saw your planes as we drove by. Will see you tomorrow morning. Cheers, Jim B. ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil From: "Mark Roberts" Well for what it's worth to the group, here is some files I created 2 years ago to potentially sell Riblett GAU30-612 rib jigs. I plotted the DAT files that have been posted here before in my CAD software and the jig files were created to be punched on a CNC router. My '613.5' jig was popped out this way and that's what I am building on. So, this is posted "as-is". It is accurate to the dat files I was given (and the coorinates posted here as well), so have at it. As to the spar dimentions, they are spaced at 27.75" as per the original plans, and the internal struts and wing elements were dimensioned from the original piet FC-10 airfoil that I purchased (i.e.: The measurements for all related parts was taken from the original plans and copied to the new airfoil... so, however far the spar was from the front of the airfoil, that's how far it was on my plans...) I have chosen to fil the entire spar locations on my design top to bottom with a spar, as I am making my wing longer than plans (please, no flames :o) I am a heretic. Also, the attached DXF includes routing for the glue pots beneath the intersections where the glue can drop down and not stick to the jig surface. That is what the 'pots' reference is for: glue "pots" beneath the junctions. Hope this helps anyone building a Riblett 612 airfoil! As always in Experimental aviation, your altitude may vary... Enjoy! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401725#401725 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_612_airfoil_pegs_and_pots_final_254.dxf http://forums.matronics.com//files/airfoil_612_incidence_221.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_airfoil_167.xls ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering From: "Mark Roberts" I wish I was there camping tonight... :o( See ya'll in the morning!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401726#401726 ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Alternative Engine Round up From: "Mark Roberts" Stinking Weddings....! Just because my nephew is getting married on the same day, does that mean I HAVE to attend the ceremony? Just because my brother attended MY daughter's wedding last weekend, does that mean I HAVE to go to HIS kid's wedding when there is an alternative engine roundup on the same stinking weekend??? Life is full of difficult choices... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401728#401728 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center section rear cutout. From: "Mark Roberts" Interesting discussion... I had never considered anything but the cut out until this... Now I am leaning toward a Flop. Thanks fellers... Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401729#401729 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: what a beautiful place for a Piet fly-in From: "Mark Roberts" Mike Cuy: I sure wish you could attend the event, as I would love to meet you. I think you must be the most generous and considerate person on the list. You know, the first event I attended (year 2) was attended by the ubiquitous Jim Markle... You are truly the "Godfather" of the piet list. I promise to say nice things about you at the group meeting tomorrow! :o) Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401730#401730 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.