Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 06/01/13


Total Messages Posted: 23



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:43 AM - flop vs cutout (Douwe Blumberg)
     2. 06:34 AM - Re: flop vs cutout (Jack Phillips)
     3. 06:52 AM - Re: flop vs cutout (John Hofmann)
     4. 07:41 AM - Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil (Michael Perez)
     5. 07:45 AM - Re: Fuel tank pictures (Michael Perez)
     6. 07:56 AM - Re: flop vs cutout (Michael Perez)
     7. 07:58 AM - Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List) (Michael Perez)
     8. 08:19 AM - Re: Fuel tank pictures (Rick)
     9. 09:53 AM - Re: Fuel tank pictures (taildrags)
    10. 10:02 AM - Re: flop vs cutout (taildrags)
    11. 01:17 PM - Re: Fuel tank pictures (nightmare)
    12. 01:57 PM - Flop vs Cutout (G Hansen)
    13. 02:33 PM - Wood List (Ohbejoyful)
    14. 02:57 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank pictures (Rick)
    15. 03:03 PM - Re: Fuel tank pictures (nightmare)
    16. 07:23 PM - Re: Wood List (nightmare)
    17. 09:59 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in (jorge lizarraga)
    18. 10:05 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in2 (jorge lizarraga)
    19. 10:09 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in3 (jorge lizarraga)
    20. 10:50 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in3 (Gary Boothe)
    21. 11:01 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    22. 11:07 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
    23. 11:33 PM - Re: flop vs cutout (Clif Dawson)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:43:36 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: flop vs cutout
    This comes up once in a while, and was discussed within the last year or two. My evidence is only from others as I've not flown a Piet with a cutout. There was an article in a BPA backissue where a guy with a cutout was told that it decreased lift and caused more turbulence over the tailfeathers. He didn't really know what to believe so he took the eminently practical step of making a foam "filler" for the cutout and duct-taping it in and then went flying. He reported a marked improvement in handling. "All I know is what I read in the papers" Will Rogers. Douwe


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:34:32 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
    Subject: flop vs cutout
    I've flown a number of Piets, mostly with cutouts (although John Hofmann's cutout is very small - just sort of a suggestion of a cutout). I've never noticed any downdraft blowing down my back. Does it decrease left? It would almost certainly have to, since it does decrease wing area. But one other thing a cutout adds besides ease of entry is much improved visibility. In a steep turn, when chasing that Hun as he tries to out-turn you, you have a splendid view through the cutout over the wing. I like the look of the cutout, but the flop is also a neat solution Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 7:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop vs cutout This comes up once in a while, and was discussed within the last year or two. My evidence is only from others as I've not flown a Piet with a cutout. There was an article in a BPA backissue where a guy with a cutout was told that it decreased lift and caused more turbulence over the tailfeathers. He didn't really know what to believe so he took the eminently practical step of making a foam "filler" for the cutout and duct-taping it in and then went flying. He reported a marked improvement in handling. "All I know is what I read in the papers" Will Rogers. Douwe


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:52:00 AM PST US
    From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
    Subject: Re: flop vs cutout
    My cutout is useless for much of anything but like Jack stated, I don't have an issue with wind down my back. John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Jun 1, 2013, at 8:32 AM, "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote: > I=92ve flown a number of Piets, mostly with cutouts (although John Hofmann=92s cutout is very small ' just sort of a suggestion of a cutout). I=92ve never noticed any downdraft blowing down my back. Does it decrease left? It would almost certainly have to, since it does decrease wing area. But one other thing a cutout adds besides ease of entry is much improved visibility. In a steep turn, when chasing that Hun as he tries to out-turn you, you have a splendid view through the cutout over the wing. > > I like the look of the cutout, but the flop is also a neat solution > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 7:54 AM > To: pietenpolgroup > Subject: Pietenpol-List: flop vs cutout > > This comes up once in a while, and was discussed within the last year or two. > > My evidence is only from others as I=92ve not flown a Piet with a cutout. There was an article in a BPA backissue where a guy with a cutout was told that it decreased lift and caused more turbulence over the tailfeathers. He didn=92t really know what to believe so he took the eminently practical step of making a foam =93filler=94 for the cutout and duct-taping it in and then went flying. > > He reported a marked improvement in handling. > > =93All I know is what I read in the papers=94 Will Rogers. > > Douwe > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:41:43 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Lofting GAU30-612 Airfoil
    My-procedure was to copy the full size plan so I could use the copy and k eep the original in tact. The copy was then layed down and the jig built ov er top of it. All rib pieces were cut and fitted to lay exactly on the full size plan I copied.- - So, my spars are layed out the same as the drawing. They do not look, to me , to be perpendicular, but I can't guess at the angle either. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:45:16 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Fuel tank pictures
    Thank you Rick. What a nice tank, very clean. Looks like it has baffles inside, yes? Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: flop vs cutout
    I would imagine that the down wash of air off of the cut out would also be related to the position of the wing. With wings being placed is various pos itions for W&B, that changes the relationship between the wing and pilot. E ase of getting in/out and down wash on the pilots back would be different p lane to plane.- I would guess that those with wings swept back, the pilot sits more "under" the wing and does not get as much wind down the back. I would also guess that swept back wings close up the cockpit making getting in and out harder. - Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:58:14 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Building Second Plane (was Min. Equp. List)
    Thanks for the suggestions guys. If that day EVER comes, it won't be for quite some time. I have a TON of wood projects to do for the house/family first. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:19:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel tank pictures
    From: Rick <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    Thanks Michael, Yes it does have baffles fore and aft to serve as stiffeners and to minimize fuel sloshing. If I had it to do over again I probably would make the tank s lightly smaller. Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad On Jun 1, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > Thank you Rick. What a nice tank, very clean. Looks like it has baffles in side, yes? > > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:53:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel tank pictures
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Rick; nice tank! Very similar to mine, except yours holds more fuel. One thing I will point out, something that I learned from the nose-over, is that the front crossmember that the tank support straps mount to can be a weak point. Take a look at the second picture here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/fueltank.html The member cracked right where the strap fastening bolt (AN3) goes through, and the small gusset glue joints at the uprights let go. When I rebuilt the support crossmember, I made it a little deeper (I think I used 1"x3/4") and more generous support haunches at the uprights, to provide more glue surface. If you haven't covered up the front with your firewall yet, you may consider installing corner gusset 'haunches' where the crossmember attaches to the uprights. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401760#401760


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:02:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: flop vs cutout
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Disclaimer: I have never flown in a Piet with the cutout, only with a flop. The cutout on Scout had slide latches on the underside to hold it in place, but I never used them and the flop never tended to lift up in flight or on the ground, so I removed them. I may regret it if a gust ever gets under it while the airplane is parked, because if it flops forward in a hurry, the hinge is toast. I use the flop each and every time I fly, and I love it. I am 5'-9", 154#, so I'm fairly limber and I still can't imagine how you crawl in and out of the cockpit without a cutout or flop. Scout has the cabanes swept back 4" and I believe they are a little longer than stock, too. My routine on climbing in is to grab the cabanes, put one foot on the step, and as I swing in I push the flop up with my head. It follows me as I climb down into the cockpit. No motions of the hand are required. Climbing out is the reverse... I stand in the cockpit, pushing the flop up with my head, and climb out. I have tried pushing the flop up into the airstream while in flight and there is a good steady aerodynamic force holding it down. I also appreciate having it there to deflect the air past the cockpit. Cutouts are cool, but I think the flop is better. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401761#401761


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:17:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel tank pictures
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    Very nice Rick. What welding process did you use? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401767#401767


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:57:26 PM PST US
    From: "G Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
    Subject: Flop vs Cutout
    When I first flew my Piet in 1970 it had a cutout above the rear cockpit, and I flew it that way for a couple of years. Then I re-worked the center section and installed a hinged =9Cflop=9D in order to perhaps gain a bit of lift and reduce turbulence over the tail surfaces. I cannot say that the lift was perceptively increased, but the airflow over the tail was definitely smoother (as felt in the control stick; no perceptible difference was felt in the rudder controls). Interestingly, when one raises the =9Cflop=9D trailing edge in flight, the nose promptly drops. My theory (and it is only a theory) is that raising the =9Cflop=9D spoils the airflow over the horizontal tail surfaces which are carrying a download and the nose pitches down as a result. Another theory: The in-flight photos of many Piets show the elevators drooping a bit and this may be partly due to the downwash from the wing. The in-flight photos of some early aircraft (eg. Sopwith Pup) also show this characteristic which may be caused by the downwash from the upper wing. Probably the weight of unbalanced elevators at low airspeeds is also a factor; there isn=99t enough force generated to overcome both gravity and the downwash effect. Anyway, this is largely speculation and we don=99t need to worry because the Pietenpol flies just fine, with or without a =9Cflop=9D. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada)


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:33:18 PM PST US
    From: Ohbejoyful <ohbejoyful10@gmail.com>
    Subject: Wood List
    I have completed most of the woodwork on my Pietenpol fuselage and am getting ready to order more wood. I was wondering if anyone has a complete wood list for the Pietenpol Air Camper per the 1933 plans. I am finding that some of the materials lists and preorder wood kits are for the GN-1 but I have not found a list for the Original Pietenpol. Thanks Joseph Jameson


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:57:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel tank pictures
    From: Rick <lmforge@earthlink.net>
    Thanks Paul, It was TIG. Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad On Jun 1, 2013, at 3:16 PM, "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Very nice Rick. What welding process did you use? > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401767#401767 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:03:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuel tank pictures
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    Thanks, gotta save my pennies and get me one. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401772#401772


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:23:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood List
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    Ive read of previous posts of complaints when ordering "wood kits". You dont want any waste when it comes to high dollar wood. I think a safer bet would be to go through plans and buy what you figure you need. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401780#401780


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:59:10 PM PST US
    From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in
    just like to say all you guys tanks for by so frienly and nice people todey these was bery wonderfull time shared your ideas and advice,wonderfull mea l and was bery plaseto meet you all of you seyou nex jorge from hanford=0A =0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401726#401726=0A =====================


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:05:47 PM PST US
    From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in2
    those person like see some pictures .=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view -======================== =- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle ========


    Message 19


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    Time: 10:09:36 PM PST US
    From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in3
    =========================0A ===================


    Message 20


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    Time: 10:50:29 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: West Coast Pietenpol fly-in3
    From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Great meeting you today, Jorge! Gary Sent from my iPhone On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:08 PM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com> wrote: > ht --> > > > > > <R1-06372-0001.jpg> > <R1-06372-0000.jpg> > <R1-06372-0004.jpg>


    Message 21


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    Time: 11:01:43 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. 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Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 22


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    Time: 11:07:14 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 23


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    Time: 11:33:36 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: flop vs cutout
    Why not have the best of both worlds? The open areas will be covered in lexan. Clif "The true method of knowledge is experiment." (William Blake) In a steep turn, when chasing that Hun as he tries to out-turn you, you have a splendid view through the cutout over the wing. I like the look of the cutout, but the flop is also a neat solution Jack Phillips




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