---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/04/13: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: WIGS ARE ON! (Michael Perez) 2. 04:33 AM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") (Jack Phillips) 3. 04:39 AM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") (Jack) 4. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") (airlion2@gmail.com) 5. 05:34 AM - Re: WINGS ARE ON! (Chris Rusch) 6. 05:40 AM - Re: WINGS ARE ON! (Chris Rusch) 7. 05:42 AM - Re: WINGS ARE ON! (Chris Rusch) 8. 07:24 AM - Cable ends!!! (tkreiner) 9. 07:39 AM - Re: Cable ends!!! (Bill Church) 10. 07:48 AM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") (Don Emch) 11. 08:07 AM - Re: Cable ends!!! (tkreiner) 12. 10:29 AM - Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") (nightmare) 13. 02:37 PM - Cream puff ? (bender) 14. 02:43 PM - Re: Cream puff ? (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 15. 05:14 PM - Re: Cream puff ? (AircamperN11MS) 16. 05:58 PM - squirrelly on the gear (taildrags) 17. 06:00 PM - Re: hangar floor color (dgaldrich) 18. 06:05 PM - horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat (pringljo) 19. 06:09 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (Gary Boothe) 20. 06:18 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 21. 06:20 PM - Congrats to John Francis - First Solo () 22. 06:23 PM - Re: Cream puff ? (bender) 23. 06:27 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat (nightmare) 24. 06:29 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat (nightmare) 25. 06:32 PM - Re: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo (nightmare) 26. 06:41 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat (pringljo) 27. 06:42 PM - Congratulations Jeff Faith! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 28. 06:44 PM - Re: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo (Gary Boothe) 29. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") (Gary Boothe) 30. 07:07 PM - NOT Going Thru Build Withdrawal (Gary Boothe) 31. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Cream puff ? (Jack Phillips) 32. 07:19 PM - Re: Congratulations Jeff Faith! (bender) 33. 07:20 PM - Re: Cream puff ? (AircamperN11MS) 34. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank pictures (Rick Schreiber) 35. 07:25 PM - Re: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo (AircamperN11MS) 36. 09:45 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (Mark Roberts) 37. 09:58 PM - Re: Re: squirrelly on the gear (The real bike Mike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:00 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WIGS ARE ON! GREAT!- The paint scheme is very cool. Michael Perez =0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero =0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:47 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") Gary, I=92m sorry to hear about the mishap, but glad you=92re OK. Planes can be rebuilt. People are more difficult (although Kevin tried to prove that people are easier to rebuild than airplanes). Pietenpols aren=92t the easiest planes to land in a crosswind ' the ailerons are just not very responsive. Do you have gap seals on your ailerons? That vastly improves responsiveness, changing it from non-existent to barely adequate. I find that in a gusty crosswind a wheel landing works better because you can touch down at a faster speed, giving better control. Narrow gear certainly adds to the challenge, but once the wind gets under the wing, wide gear won=92t help too much. Looking at your pictures, that spar really got whacked! Note the chunk of spar material OUTSIDE the plywood doubler! That looks like Sitka Spruce but I=92m not sure. What material did you use for your spars? As Douwe and Kevin, and Andrew Eldridge, Gardiner Mason and a few others on the list (including myself) can attest, rebuilding your dream is tough, but admirable. A few years from now this will be just a distant memory and you=92ll have many years of pleasant flying in your creation. The good news is, since it is already certified, you won=92t have to get it inspected again. This is just a repair. Good luck and press on! Just feel sorry for those that have finished their Pietenpols recently and are now going through build withdrawal. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 9:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") All, By now you should have seen the lineup of Piets that Chris Tracy posted. Pietenpols were coming out from under hay stacks and barn hide-aways all up and down the state (or so it seemed)! The great states of Texas and Oregon were also represented by dignitaries. But, as you look at the lineup, there is one plane missing=85NX308MB. Unofficially, =BD way thru a 2 hour leg, I hit extreme turbulence that most assuredly damaged a rear spar. Yes=85I=92m sure that was it. It certainly wasn=92t the gentle tapping of the left wing on the runway in a right x-wind landing. Well, it may have been a tid-bit more than a gentle tap=85 Kevin & Shelley flew out from Austin and spent Friday night at my new house. Friday evening was pleasant, even windless, and Kevin took my Piet up for a short flight. I was very keen to get the impressions of an experienced Pietenpol pilot about how my plane flew. He reported good findings, but commented that it seemed a bit tricky on landing. We had a brief discussion about my landing gear width and how tall my Piet stands, and whether it was that or that he had not flown a Piet for almost a year. I discounted the latter, and took mental note of the former. I have had difficulty landing, too. How prophetic=85 There is no doubt in my mind that a more experienced pilot would not have botched the landing the following morning. I freely admit that, at the risk of losing Man Points. The only scary thing about the event, is that, after I fueled up, while taxiing back to the runway, I noticed a little flutter in the left wing. A closer examination confirmed my fears. I was 5 minutes from taking off! The rest of the good news is that I did not ground loop and the rest of the plane is fine. However, I now have a better idea=85 Since I like wood gear, and tall wheels, why not copy proven builds like Mike Cuy=92s or Jack Phillips=92! THERE, that=92s the ticket! My plane is not home yet, but I think my gear width is about 57=94, if I recall, and Jack=92s is over 69=94, and not as tall!! Even Mike Groah=92s brand new, beautiful Piet, which is styled very similarly to mine, has a gear width of 62=94; but Mike is also a much better pilot than I=85and his paint job is so smooth that the wind just slides off without effecting him! Take what you will from this mea culpa. I have a =91little voice=92 that speaks constantly to me=85but I often get confused because I hear lots of voices! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:09 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") Wow Gery so glad you caught it! Jack Textor Des Moines, IA _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 8:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") All, By now you should have seen the lineup of Piets that Chris Tracy posted. Pietenpols were coming out from under hay stacks and barn hide-aways all up and down the state (or so it seemed)! The great states of Texas and Oregon were also represented by dignitaries. But, as you look at the lineup, there is one plane missing=85NX308MB. Unofficially, =BD way thru a 2 hour leg, I hit extreme turbulence that most assuredly damaged a rear spar. Yes=85I=92m sure that was it. It certainly wasn=92t the gentle tapping of the left wing on the runway in a right x-wind landing. Well, it may have been a tid-bit more than a gentle tap=85 Kevin & Shelley flew out from Austin and spent Friday night at my new house. Friday evening was pleasant, even windless, and Kevin took my Piet up for a short flight. I was very keen to get the impressions of an experienced Pietenpol pilot about how my plane flew. He reported good findings, but commented that it seemed a bit tricky on landing. We had a brief discussion about my landing gear width and how tall my Piet stands, and whether it was that or that he had not flown a Piet for almost a year. I discounted the latter, and took mental note of the former. I have had difficulty landing, too. How prophetic=85 There is no doubt in my mind that a more experienced pilot would not have botched the landing the following morning. I freely admit that, at the risk of losing Man Points. The only scary thing about the event, is that, after I fueled up, while taxiing back to the runway, I noticed a little flutter in the left wing. A closer examination confirmed my fears. I was 5 minutes from taking off! The rest of the good news is that I did not ground loop and the rest of the plane is fine. However, I now have a better idea=85 Since I like wood gear, and tall wheels, why not copy proven builds like Mike Cuy=92s or Jack Phillips=92! THERE, that=92s the ticket! My plane is not home yet, but I think my gear width is about 57=94, if I recall, and Jack=92s is over 69=94, and not as tall!! Even Mike Groah=92s brand new, beautiful Piet, which is styled very similarly to mine, has a gear width of 62=94; but Mike is also a much better pilot than I=85and his paint job is so smooth that the wind just slides off without effecting him! Take what you will from this mea culpa. I have a =91little voice=92 that speaks constantly to me=85but I often get confused because I hear lots of voices! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") From: airlion2@gmail.com Sorry about your mishap Gary. And I am glad you caught the wing flutter in time. I wish I could have taken a picture of the flutter in my wings while I was in that tornado. I was too busy cussing.GARDINER Sent from my iPad On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Mark Roberts" wrote: > > Wow Gary... This just kept me from making they one call I had planned to make to you tonight... > > I'm so sorry for the turbulence. But very glad you caught that little flutter before the run up and subsequent take off accident! The spar looks to have really had a bad day. > > I am an hour from the Los Banos airport. When you go to pick it up and need help, please call me. My days are clear now until I get another job... > > Saying a little "thank you prayer" right now for you... > > Mark > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401930#401930 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WINGS ARE ON! From: "Chris Rusch" Sounds good, but where is HFX? [quote="jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc."]Looks Great Chris! We will have to barnstorm sometime. There are two of us at HXF with Piets. John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com (jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com) On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:13 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > It's beautiful, Chris!! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -- -------- NX321LR ON THE FINAL PUSH!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401964#401964 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:38 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WINGS ARE ON! From: "Chris Rusch" Thanks for all of the positive inputs, it really helps keeping the drive alive! One thing ive noticed is it a real pain in the a@#$ getting anything done at the airport, i never seem to have brought enough or the right amount of anything.....went out last night for a few hours and nothing got done cause i was either missing something or i didnt have the right tool. I should have kept it at my home shop longer where all the right stuff is a few steps away. It is nice seeing it all put together, but i realized quickly how much little stuff is left to do......so my dream of making it to brodhead this year doesnt look like its gonna happen.. -------- NX321LR ON THE FINAL PUSH!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401966#401966 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WINGS ARE ON! From: "Chris Rusch" Oh, i typed in in wrong, its Hatrford!! yea that will work! [quote="Chris Rusch"]Sounds good, but where is HFX? jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc. wrote: > Looks Great Chris! > > We will have to barnstorm sometime. There are two of us at HXF with Piets. > > > > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2424 American Lane > Madison, WI 53704 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com (jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com) > > > > On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:13 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > > > > It's beautiful, Chris!! > > > > Gary Boothe > > NX308MB > > > > > > -- > -------- NX321LR ON THE FINAL PUSH!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401967#401967 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable ends!!! From: "tkreiner" Guys, Take a look at this auction! 53 3/32 dia. HIGH $$$ crimp cable ends for $14. Do all your 3/32 cable ends with these for less than ACS wants for 1 piece. Here's the link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161031889608?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401970#401970 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cable ends!!! From: "Bill Church" Tom, Like you said, "take a look at this auction!". The $14 price is for each cable end. The whole bag of 53 will run $742. (darned fine print) Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401971#401971 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") From: "Don Emch" Sorry to hear about it Gary. Those are tough pictures to look at. ...."there's those that have and those that will..." I'm in the "have" group. I've learned that you haven't fully felt the airplane out until you've felt it go "out". Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401972#401972 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cable ends!!! From: "tkreiner" OH NOOOOOOO! Sorry about that! Please delete, destroy, whatever... DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401974#401974 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") From: "nightmare" Gary; soooo sorry! no two ways to say it, that just sucks! Glad your ok, and atleast you didn't have a prop strike. could have been a much more expensive rebuild if thinks went slightly worse. Sounds like the taller gear are a little more squirrely. If you don't mind, (and if you do mind, i understand), could you share in what way your aircraft is a little tricky to land? did you run out of rudder, slow roll rate, is it squirrely just on the tailwheel or while just on the mains......... this info would help some of us in the build stage to make some gear config decisions. maybe we should start a new thread having piet owners state the particulars of their gear setup. (height, width, size tires, and type of tailwheel, swiveling, castoring, fixed). how they feel they handle and what they would do differently to make the plane more docile if needed. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401988#401988 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:57 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cream puff ? From: "bender" So tell me its a cream puff before I go fly.. I've run out of things to do.. and it seems its time to try her out I've heard that it flys kinda like a cub and kinda like the Ragwing designs.. I hope so.. the Ragwing special I built was easy as pie to fly haven't been in a cub in a while... but I learned to fly in one I did find a 4 leaf clover today jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401995#401995 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:09 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cream puff ? Do it...................!!! Brian SLC-UT -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cream puff ? --> So tell me its a cream puff before I go fly.. I've run out of things to do.. and it seems its time to try her out I've heard that it flys kinda like a cub and kinda like the Ragwing designs.. I hope so.. the Ragwing special I built was easy as pie to fly haven't been in a cub in a while... but I learned to fly in one I did find a 4 leaf clover today jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401995#401995 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cream puff ? From: "AircamperN11MS" Jeff, I have about 11 hours in my buddies rag wing. In fact I did the first flights on it. His rag wing liked three point takeoffs and landings. Wheel landings and takeoffs were difficult and a waste of time since it would be air born :n half the distance it would take to get the tail off the ground. That said. Once in the air, they fly very much alike and bleed off airspeed very quickly during the flare. I would think that if you understand the rag wing you will not have any problems with the Piet. Go fly it and have fun. Great looking plane Happy Landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402011#402011 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: squirrelly on the gear From: "taildrags" I changed the subject line ;o) Gary, what is the track (distance between contact patches) of your mains? I know there's a word for it but I can't remember it right now. Just interested in comparing that dimension between airplanes, as I'm sure it does have some effect on ground handling. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402012#402012 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: hangar floor color From: "dgaldrich" My personal experience with 2 hangars and one large shop--- Taxi on down to Sherwin-Williams and talk to the guy that sells the commercial stuff, not the gawky looking guy who has mastered the paint color machine but the older guy who can find the commercial catalog. Ask for Armorseal 1000-HS. This is a 2 part epoxy favored by guys with those beautiful commercial hangars where you can eat off the floors. Carefully READ and HEED the preparation instructions and be prepared for sticker shock at the cost of the stuff. Once you're over that and have it applied according to instructions, it will be there forever. I have spilled every chemical available at Home depot as well as brake fluid, avgas, and muriatic acid (diluted) on mine with no ill affects. Now in fairness, I have NOT tried Skydrol but it's not really on the list of likely hangar spills in GA. About the only way the stuff comes up is with a cold chisel but that's tough on the concrete. I have discovered that T-88 DOES stick to it so trying to pry up drips WILL remove the paint and a thin layer of concrete. The big box stores do sell a variety of so called epoxy floor paints but the car guy forums have come to the conclusion that they are crap. Now that may be because car guys refuse to read instructions as well as torque tables so it's really a caveat emptor deal. I coughed up the bucks to do it right and have been VERY pleased. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402013#402013 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat From: "pringljo" So, I glued up my HS this weekend, and after taking it out of the jig, I found that it is not perfectly flat. On one end I get a little bit of rise on one corner. Possibly 1/16th of an inch. Maybe less. It's not visibly twisted. Just a little tiny bit off. It's all set up solidly. Is this ruined? I really don't know how much forgiveness there is in a situation like this. I'm really discouraged. Please advise -------- Joe Pringle Atlanta, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402014#402014 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:55 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: squirrelly on the gear Measured it tonight when we got her home...52". But I did not measure the gear height (that should be important, too). Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 5:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: squirrelly on the gear --> I changed the subject line ;o) Gary, what is the track (distance between contact patches) of your mains? I know there's a word for it but I can't remember it right now. Just interested in comparing that dimension between airplanes, as I'm sure it does have some effect on ground handling. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402012#402012 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:06 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat Joe, I'm amazed your horizontal stabilizer is only 1/16" of an inch 'not flat'. You have nothing to worry about. The four 3/32" cables that will attach your stabilizer will also act as rigging and truing adjustments with the turnbuckles back there. You just use a digital (or level) angle finder on your stab to get all of your cables tight and your horizontal stabilizer running true to the longerons or line of flight. Mike C. PS--twang all of the cables and try to get them to twang in the approximate same key. My 82 year old Charles Taylor Award winning IA helped me with that bit of advice. It worked. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:41 PM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo Friends, Our fellow Piet builder John Francis (Russia OH) just completed his private pilot solo! Please join me in congratulating a first class guy on his accomplishment. Now, we both just need to complete our Piets and fly them to broadhead in the near future. Bob Dewenter Dayton OH ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cream puff ? From: "bender" Well it worked. . Pitch sensitive for sure. .. My radiator is a little small I guess. .. it was a bit warm in flight. . Airspeed seemed off at first but in downwind it was on 50 kts Just under 2000 rpm Landing was ugly but it was the first. Photos soon. . My Facebook page has videos from friends already Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402017#402017 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:03 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat From: "nightmare" Joe: guess it depends on how much of a difference between the high and low side. you may want to temporarily mount it on a piece of wood resembling the footprint of the fuselage , then pull or push the points where the cables will be attached. Then run a straight edge across the entire length of the stabilizer to see if it is still higher on one side. If its straight, I would feel good using it, knowing that the cables will take out the warp. If still have a high side, you still may be able to use it by building up the low end with some t88 and strips of ply, then sanding down the opposite side so that the whole piece is straight. Hope this makes sense. I have never had to do this, just off top of my head what you may be able to do. Good luck. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402019#402019 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat From: "nightmare" I dont believe I typed all that to reread and see you only had 1/16 difference off. Man I wish I had your problems. Your doing great, dont sweat it. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402020#402020 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo From: "nightmare" Way to go Joe. Did they cut your tailfeathers? Do they still do that? Cut the back of your shirt? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402022#402022 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: horizontal stabilizer not perfectly flat From: "pringljo" Thanks for the reassurance. I realize I am probably over thinking this a bit. Just a little hyped up about starting this build, that I have been dreaming about for so many years. I'm confident it will be fine. -------- Joe Pringle Atlanta, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402024#402024 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:50 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Congratulations Jeff Faith! Way to go man! You did a good landing gear test on your maiden flight. Good, check that off on your list. I did the same! You can sleep great tonight. Well done. Now the best part of your project begins---having fun flying it! Michael Cuy ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:36 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo Congratulations, John!!! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rdewenter@woh.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 9:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo Friends, Our fellow Piet builder John Francis (Russia OH) just completed his private pilot solo! Please join me in congratulating a first class guy on his accomplishment. Now, we both just need to complete our Piets and fly them to broadhead in the near future. Bob Dewenter Dayton OH ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:19 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") Paul, As Kevin pointed out to me, the correct aircraft terminology is not 'squirrelly', but 'tippy'. Tippy in the sense that it tips over (;-))... and scrapes wing tips! Not only did I have this issue, but also my 15,000 hr flight instructor/test pilot who had a minor scrape a few weeks ago. I think I may have posted two wheel dimensions of 52 and 57", but the correct number is 52" from center to center of the tires. I have 21" Harley Sportster wheels (which have done quite well with my side-load testing program, I might say), but I do not know the height at this moment. Rebuild, which is really minor, will also consist of remaking the gear to a wider, lower stance....do NOT want to be tippy... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 10:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") --> Gary; soooo sorry! no two ways to say it, that just sucks! Glad your ok, and atleast you didn't have a prop strike. could have been a much more expensive rebuild if thinks went slightly worse. Sounds like the taller gear are a little more squirrely. If you don't mind, (and if you do mind, i understand), could you share in what way your aircraft is a little tricky to land? did you run out of rudder, slow roll rate, is it squirrely just on the tailwheel or while just on the mains......... this info would help some of us in the build stage to make some gear config decisions. maybe we should start a new thread having piet owners state the particulars of their gear setup. (height, width, size tires, and type of tailwheel, swiveling, castoring, fixed). how they feel they handle and what they would do differently to make the plane more docile if needed. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401988#401988 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:31 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: NOT Going Thru Build Withdrawal Thanks, Jack! My ailerons have continuous hinges. Although there has been much conversation about gear width, I am willing to bet that you, Mike or Kevin, or a number of other experience Piet pilots would not have botched that landing. I am awakening to the realization of how actively one must stay involved with this plane! It is not forgiving like a Cub, T-craft or Cessna, and must be correctly handled, especially at landings. My goal with revamping the gear is to give myself a little more margin for error. My spars are fir. When I get the fabric off, I will be looking for any flaws I can find in the grain, but really don=92t expect to reveal anything. As you noted, that chunk of spar outside the doubler really indicates just how far that spar was bent!...pretty cool! I take console in being just like you, Kevin, Douwe, Andrew, Gardiner, and a few others! ;-) Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 4:33 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") Gary, I=92m sorry to hear about the mishap, but glad you=92re OK. Planes can be rebuilt. People are more difficult (although Kevin tried to prove that people are easier to rebuild than airplanes). Pietenpols aren=92t the easiest planes to land in a crosswind ' the ailerons are just not very responsive. Do you have gap seals on your ailerons? That vastly improves responsiveness, changing it from non-existent to barely adequate. I find that in a gusty crosswind a wheel landing works better because you can touch down at a faster speed, giving better control. Narrow gear certainly adds to the challenge, but once the wind gets under the wing, wide gear won=92t help too much. Looking at your pictures, that spar really got whacked! Note the chunk of spar material OUTSIDE the plywood doubler! That looks like Sitka Spruce but I=92m not sure. What material did you use for your spars? As Douwe and Kevin, and Andrew Eldridge, Gardiner Mason and a few others on the list (including myself) can attest, rebuilding your dream is tough, but admirable. A few years from now this will be just a distant memory and you=92ll have many years of pleasant flying in your creation. The good news is, since it is already certified, you won=92t have to get it inspected again. This is just a repair. Good luck and press on! Just feel sorry for those that have finished their Pietenpols recently and are now going through build withdrawal. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 9:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering (aka: "Brodhead West") All, By now you should have seen the lineup of Piets that Chris Tracy posted. Pietenpols were coming out from under hay stacks and barn hide-aways all up and down the state (or so it seemed)! The great states of Texas and Oregon were also represented by dignitaries. But, as you look at the lineup, there is one plane missing=85NX308MB. Unofficially, =BD way thru a 2 hour leg, I hit extreme turbulence that most assuredly damaged a rear spar. Yes=85I=92m sure that was it. It certainly wasn=92t the gentle tapping of the left wing on the runway in a right x-wind landing. Well, it may have been a tid-bit more than a gentle tap=85 Kevin & Shelley flew out from Austin and spent Friday night at my new house. Friday evening was pleasant, even windless, and Kevin took my Piet up for a short flight. I was very keen to get the impressions of an experienced Pietenpol pilot about how my plane flew. He reported good findings, but commented that it seemed a bit tricky on landing. We had a brief discussion about my landing gear width and how tall my Piet stands, and whether it was that or that he had not flown a Piet for almost a year. I discounted the latter, and took mental note of the former. I have had difficulty landing, too. How prophetic=85 There is no doubt in my mind that a more experienced pilot would not have botched the landing the following morning. I freely admit that, at the risk of losing Man Points. The only scary thing about the event, is that, after I fueled up, while taxiing back to the runway, I noticed a little flutter in the left wing. A closer examination confirmed my fears. I was 5 minutes from taking off! The rest of the good news is that I did not ground loop and the rest of the plane is fine. However, I now have a better idea=85 Since I like wood gear, and tall wheels, why not copy proven builds like Mike Cuy=92s or Jack Phillips=92! THERE, that=92s the ticket! My plane is not home yet, but I think my gear width is about 57=94, if I recall, and Jack=92s is over 69=94, and not as tall!! Even Mike Groah=92s brand new, beautiful Piet, which is styled very similarly to mine, has a gear width of 62=94; but Mike is also a much better pilot than I=85and his paint job is so smooth that the wind just slides off without effecting him! Take what you will from this mea culpa. I have a =91little voice=92 that speaks constantly to me=85but I often get confused because I hear lots of voices! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:13 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cream puff ? Way to go, Jeff! There's absolutely no better feeling than the first flight in a plane you built yourself. Welcome to a very elite group. Pilots represent about 1/2 of 1% of the US population. People who start building their own airplanes are probably less than 10% of the pilot population, and of those who start to build, less than 25% ever finish their projects, so you are now a member of a very exclusive group. Now hurry and fly the 40 hours off so you can bring it to Brodhead this year. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bender Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 9:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cream puff ? Well it worked. . Pitch sensitive for sure. .. My radiator is a little small I guess. .. it was a bit warm in flight. . Airspeed seemed off at first but in downwind it was on 50 kts Just under 2000 rpm Landing was ugly but it was the first. Photos soon. . My Facebook page has videos from friends already Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402017#402017 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Congratulations Jeff Faith! From: "bender" Thanks Mike. . I'm glad the airframe worked. . The engine and prop worked great just got a little warm. I think I need a little bigger radiator. I knew mind was small. . Had my hopes that it would work. Small change. .. I'll make it happen fast Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402033#402033 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cream puff ? From: "AircamperN11MS" Congratulations Jeff, Keep us up to date please. Those first flights and their stories that follow give us all warn fuzzy feelings. How long was your flight? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402034#402034 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:38 PM PST US From: Rick Schreiber Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel tank pictures On 6/1/2013 11:53 AM, taildrags wrote: > > Rick; nice tank! Very similar to mine, except yours holds more fuel. One thing I will point out, something that I learned from the nose-over, is that the front crossmember that the tank support straps mount to can be a weak point. Take a look at the second picture here: > > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/fueltank.html > > The member cracked right where the strap fastening bolt (AN3) goes through, and the small gusset glue joints at the uprights let go. When I rebuilt the support crossmember, I made it a little deeper (I think I used 1"x3/4") and more generous support haunches at the uprights, to provide more glue surface. If you haven't covered up the front with your firewall yet, you may consider installing corner gusset 'haunches' where the crossmember attaches to the uprights. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > Oscar, Thanks for the compliment. Actually my tank is based on yours(Corky's) and Mike Cuy. The front support member on mine is 1-1/4 by 1-1/2 white ash. Hopefully it will never be tested. The firewall is in place, so there is not much I could do to improve it now. Today was a good day in the construction saga. The ignition wiring was completed and the Corvair had oil added for the first time. Tomorrow I will finish installing the starter. If all goes well I will circulate the oil, hook up the battery and try the starter. Once the prop is on I will be ready for first engine start. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Congrats to John Francis - First Solo From: "AircamperN11MS" Great job John -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402036#402036 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: squirrelly on the gear From: "Mark Roberts" Hey guys, If memory serves me (I don't have the plans in front of me), the wooden gear had a 48" wide tire-to-tire width. Or is that the "improved" gear... Either way, it sounds too narrow. But, I could see the width being 48" if it didn't sit high as it would with the Jenny style original gear (wooden)... Thoughts? I had heard that some of ya'll are making the wooden gear wider to begin with, over and above what the plans call for... I am planning my gear build now, after I get the stick assembly completed. Thanks! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402046#402046 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:51 PM PST US From: "The real bike Mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: squirrelly on the gear 56" tread, center to center, steel gear, individually sprung (bungeed). -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 9:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: squirrelly on the gear --> Hey guys, If memory serves me (I don't have the plans in front of me), the wooden gear had a 48" wide tire-to-tire width. Or is that the "improved" gear... Either way, it sounds too narrow. But, I could see the width being 48" if it didn't sit high as it would with the Jenny style original gear (wooden)... Thoughts? I had heard that some of ya'll are making the wooden gear wider to begin with, over and above what the plans call for... I am planning my gear build now, after I get the stick assembly completed. Thanks! 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