Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:20 AM - Re: Pietenpol Picnic (Bill Church)
2. 04:41 AM - Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (Jerry Dotson)
3. 05:13 AM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (AircamperN11MS)
4. 07:25 AM - Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
5. 07:45 AM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (Mark Roberts)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (nightmare)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (AircamperN11MS)
8. 08:31 AM - Alt Eng Round-up (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 09:04 AM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (Mark Roberts)
10. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (Michael Perez)
11. 10:48 AM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (Catdesigns)
12. 12:12 PM - Re: Re: squirrelly on the gear (Rick)
13. 01:33 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (AircamperN11MS)
14. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: squirrelly on the gear (airlion2@gmail.com)
15. 03:50 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (taildrags)
16. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: squirrelly on the gear (Gary Boothe)
17. 04:07 PM - Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (Gary Boothe)
18. 04:58 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (taildrags)
19. 05:22 PM - Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (nightmare)
20. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (Jack Phillips)
21. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: squirrelly on the gear (Chris)
22. 06:21 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (Mark Roberts)
23. 06:23 PM - Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (nightmare)
24. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it (Greg Cardinal)
25. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: squirrelly on the gear (Ken Bickers)
26. 09:10 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (taildrags)
27. 09:31 PM - Re: Pietenpol Picnic (tdudley57@gmail.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Picnic |
Tom,
Ontario IS big. To put it in perspective, it's about 1.5 times the size of Texas.
Your couple of hours drive would put you in Southern Northwestern Ontario.
:)
I have family up there (just north of Minnesota), and to visit involves an 18 -
20 hour drive - and I don't even leave the province. We once had a visitor from
Germany that we took on one of those journeys. She couldn't believe how long
the drive was. In Europe, such a long trip would have encompassed half a
dozen countries, whereas in Canada, we didn't even leave the province.
Too bad you will miss Brodhead this year.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402113#402113
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| Subject: | Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
I was taxiing up in front of the hangar after flying when the left bungee broke
and a sick feeling came over me. The wingtip was still about waist high and no
damage. The attached pictures show my attempt at solving the problem of those
bolts cutting into the bungee cord. The leather is called "horse butt". It is
tough stuff. I wanted the firmer ride so we added a fourth wrap. I really like
the suspension now. I still moves but only when you hit a bump. Maybe I can
get at least a year out of the bungees. I figure on taking the leather off every
other year to check for rust under the leather. I really don't like covering
the steel up like that but couldn't think of a better fix. The big flat washer
and the unpainted tubing come off after the wrapping is done. The nut limits
the travel to about 4" inches.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402115#402115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a4_569.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a5_522.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a6_202.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a7_443.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Mark,
Just for the sake of perspective. Mine is 52" (per gary's measurement) just like
Gary's. Although my gear is not as tall as his. Mine works very well.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402116#402116
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| Subject: | Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
Looks like a very nice solution to your fraying bungee issues Jerry. The bungee
wrap nearly covers your
entire leather wrap. Looks really good to me and you should get much longer life
out of your bungee shock cords.
Mike C.
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
I see your point Scott, BUT, you're a better pilot than I am :D
Kinda like training wheels for me :o
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402122#402122
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| Subject: | Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
Very nice Jerry. Im yet to build my gear but planning on the bungee straight axle
as well. Love the look. All this talk of difficult bungee installation and
short lifespan, I wonder has anyone come up with a straight axle spring suspension
system?
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402123#402123
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Great topic. Does anyone know what the track is on a cub or a champ?
Oh, Just a thought here. The wider the track is, the harder it will be to hold
a wing down in a crosswind. How wide is too wide? I don't know.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402124#402124
Message 8
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| Subject: | Alt Eng Round-up |
>From Round-Up host=2C Pat Panzera:
LAST CALL!
Join us at the Alternative Engine Roundup this weekend!!!
Saturday=2C June 8th=2C 2013 is the date.
If you=92ve already registered but have not received your placard for getti
ng in for free=2C PLEASE email me and let me know!
If you=92d like to present a forum=2C we can still accommodate you!
If you=92ve not yet registered=2C now=92s the time!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CONTACT! Magazine has been sponsoring a free fly-in for the past 10 years.
This year it will continue to be held in conjunction with the Golden West F
ly-in (as it was for the past two years) located in Marysville (Olivehurst)
=2C California (KMYV) and will be held on Saturday=2C June 8th=2C 2013. The
Golden West Fly-in on the other hand will be all three days=2C June 7th
' 9th and they permit camping if you are so inclined.
And as usual=2C it's FREE for those who elect to exhibit their plane=2C pro
ject=2C or engine with us.
http://www.ContactMagazine.com/roundup.html
The catch? In order for it to be free=2C you must fly in (or trailer in) wi
th an experimental aircraft that has an "alternative engine" and be willing
to put it on display with the others. This will entitle you and the occupa
nts who flew in with you to attend the fly-in for free- but you must prereg
ister.
And for those of you who have an experimental (data plate removed) hot-rod
Lycoming=2C Continental=2C or any number of non-certified=2C non-auto conve
rsion engines (UL=2C Jabiru=2C Hirth=2C Deltahawk=2C etc.) we consider thos
e an "alternative engine" too.
Please visit http://www.ContactMagazine.com/roundup.html for preregistratio
n information.
If you are flying-in with an aircraft powered by a Subaru=2C Corvair=2C Rot
ary=2C Honda=2C Geo/Suzuki=2C Ford=2C Chevrolet=2C or any other auto conver
sion and would like to present a forum (or even if you are currently buildi
ng one and can't bring it- or CAN bring it on a trailer)=2C please contact
me.
Editor@ContactMagazine.com
We'd love to include you in the fun!
And so that those who are unable to make it to the show this year won't fee
l left out=2C here's some free stuff: http://www.contactmagazine.com/FreeLu
nch.html
--
If you receive more than one of these notices=2C please accept my humble ap
ology. It most likely means that we are on more than one of the same email
lists.
And PLEASE help us spread the word by forwarding this note to anyone you th
ink might benefit from this information.
--
Thanks!
Patrick Panzera
Editor@ContactMagazine.com
www.ContactMagazine.com
The next issue of CONTACT! Magazine is seriously delinquent but we hope to
have it in hand in time for this event.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
That's a great point that I hadn't thought of: the crosswind factor. Since the
ailerons are not known to be overly effective, I too wonder how wide is too wide.
The cub gear is 70", and it is close to the Piet in size (6 feet more wing,
but still in the ball park).
Any aero-scholars out there have any ideas?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402129#402129
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| Subject: | Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
Paul, I started down that road, but abandoned the idea because of added weight
that I did not want on the plane. I really didn't get very far with it.
Michael Perez
Pietenpol HINT Videos
Karetaker Aero
www.karetakeraero.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Hopefully I don't get in trouble for posting this but here is an article about
landing gear design. The biggest problem is we don't know where the true center
of gravity (center of mass is probably a better term) on a Pietenpol is located
which makes all this information difficult to apply on our plane. Note: the
true center of gravity is not along the wing cord like all the drawings of
a planes weight and balance seem to show.
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402140#402140
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_design_178.pdf
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
It's 77" on a Taylorcraft L2
Rick Schreiber
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:57 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
>
> Great topic. Does anyone know what the track is on a cub or a champ?
>
> Oh, Just a thought here. The wider the track is, the harder it will be to hold
a wing down in a crosswind. How wide is too wide? I don't know.
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402124#402124
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Thanks Chris,
I will have a look at that when I get home. Looks interesting.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402149#402149
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
On the airlion my gear is 57 inches and have not had any trouble with it. gardiner.
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 6, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Rick <lmforge@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> It's 77" on a Taylorcraft L2
> Ith
> Rick Schreiber
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:57 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Great topic. Does anyone know what the track is on a cub or a champ?
>>
>> Oh, Just a thought here. The wider the track is, the harder it will be to
hold a wing down in a crosswind. How wide is too wide? I don't know.
>>
>> --------
>> Scott Liefeld
>> Flying N11MS since March 1972
>> Steel Tube
>> C-85-12
>> Wire Wheels
>> Brodhead in 1996
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402124#402124
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
The distance between centers of tire tread on Scout (with split J-3 style gear)
is right at 57" with nobody in the airplane.
Is somebody going to put all these data points into Excel and generate a nifty
statistical bell curve showing the most popular spacing? ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402158#402158
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Yes, Oscar...you are! ;-)
But allow me to clarify...there's a difference between squirrely and tippy.
My problem is tippy. Gear too narrow for its height. I don't think all this
data would mean anything without taking height into consideration to solve a
tippy problem.
BTW - "Tippy" is the word supplied by Kevin, so I'm sure it's
UNCLASSIFIED....
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 3:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: squirrelly on the gear
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
The distance between centers of tire tread on Scout (with split J-3 style
gear) is right at 57" with nobody in the airplane.
Is somebody going to put all these data points into Excel and generate a
nifty statistical bell curve showing the most popular spacing? ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402158#402158
Message 17
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| Subject: | Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
Out West we have plenty of horses ass, but I haven't seen horse butt, except
at horse shows. So I just used some deer hide....as inspired by Greg
Cardinal. In the pics you will note that I did not lash it down as Jerry
did...because he always takes things to the next level; however, in 52 hrs,
my deer hide has not moved.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 4:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it
--> <jdotson@centurylink.net>
I was taxiing up in front of the hangar after flying when the left bungee
broke and a sick feeling came over me. The wingtip was still about waist
high and no damage. The attached pictures show my attempt at solving the
problem of those bolts cutting into the bungee cord. The leather is called
"horse butt". It is tough stuff. I wanted the firmer ride so we added a
fourth wrap. I really like the suspension now. I still moves but only when
you hit a bump. Maybe I can get at least a year out of the bungees. I figure
on taking the leather off every other year to check for rust under the
leather. I really don't like covering the steel up like that but couldn't
think of a better fix. The big flat washer and the unpainted tubing come off
after the wrapping is done. The nut limits the travel to about 4" inches.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402115#402115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a4_569.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a5_522.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a6_202.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/a7_443.jpg
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Gary;
I don't want to change the subject line yet again from 'squirrelly' to 'tippy',
so if it's OK I'll just use the term generically. I also don't want to get in
trouble with Chris Westcoastpiet or the late Tony Bingelis by saying that we
can rearrange the laws of aircraft engineering such that the airplane's CG no
longer needs to fall on the wing chord line, or something. If we get that CG
up higher than the angle that Pazmany says it should be for ground stability
(or 'tippiness', to use an UNCLASSIFIED word), then we get a tippy airplane unless
we can also rearrange the laws of physics in the vertical plane as well as
in the axial plane.
All of which is to say, "go fly 'er, then make adjustments till she don't feel
so dern tippy", and "Scout ain't too tippy as she sets".
Oh, and
do not archive
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402161#402161
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
So guys. Given a chafe free install, how long do those bungees last?
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402162#402162
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
I don't know. Mine always chafe and have to be replaced about every 3 years
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 8:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it
<pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
So guys. Given a chafe free install, how long do those bungees last?
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402162#402162
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Oscar
Gary is absolutely right, it is very dependent on the height to width. That
is exactly what the article tells us. You can have the same width with
taller gear and it gets tipsy, er I mean tippy. What we really need to make
all this data relevant is the height of the top longeron with the top
longeron level and the gear width. Then we can compare all the data. I
will volunteer to collect the data, make some pretty graphs and crunch the
data IF people will send the gear width AND height of the longeron in a the
level position as measured on their flying Pietenpol. A qualitative report
about you tippyness would also be appreciated. Will it tell us something?
Who knows but it would be fun to find out.
Oscar you could be the first to send in your data? Or you can fly that plane
down here and I will measure it while you and Gary swap stories of broken
planes over a few beers.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 4:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: squirrelly on the gear
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Gary;
I don't want to change the subject line yet again from 'squirrelly' to
'tippy', so if it's OK I'll just use the term generically. I also don't
want to get in trouble with Chris Westcoastpiet or the late Tony Bingelis by
saying that we can rearrange the laws of aircraft engineering such that the
airplane's CG no longer needs to fall on the wing chord line, or something.
If we get that CG up higher than the angle that Pazmany says it should be
for ground stability (or 'tippiness', to use an UNCLASSIFIED word), then we
get a tippy airplane unless we can also rearrange the laws of physics in the
vertical plane as well as in the axial plane.
All of which is to say, "go fly 'er, then make adjustments till she don't
feel so dern tippy", and "Scout ain't too tippy as she sets".
Oh, and
do not archive
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402161#402161
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Hey! I'd like to read that chart Chris! All this is coming at a good time for my
planning... I want to make the gear next...
Catdesigns wrote:
> Oscar
>
> Gary is absolutely right, it is very dependent on the height to width. That
> is exactly what the article tells us. You can have the same width with
> taller gear and it gets tipsy, er I mean tippy. What we really need to make
> all this data relevant is the height of the top longeron with the top
> longeron level and the gear width. Then we can compare all the data. I
> will volunteer to collect the data, make some pretty graphs and crunch the
> data IF people will send the gear width AND height of the longeron in a the
> level position as measured on their flying Pietenpol. A qualitative report
> about you tippyness would also be appreciated. Will it tell us something?
> Who knows but it would be fun to find out.
>
> Oscar you could be the first to send in your data? Or you can fly that plane
> down here and I will measure it while you and Gary swap stories of broken
> planes over a few beers.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, Ca
> Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> --
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402168#402168
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| Subject: | Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
Well that doesnt seem too bad.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402169#402169
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it |
NX18235 is going on 3 years since the leather anti-chafe installation. Prior
to that the bungees were being replaced annually. A most unpleasant job.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Broken Bungee & How I repaired it
> <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
>
> So guys. Given a chafe free install, how long do those bungees last?
>
> --------
> Paul Donahue
> Started 8-3-12
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402162#402162
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Chris,
This may turn into a lot of work for something that ends up being a fairly
subjective "how does she feel" sort of thing. Still, if you are game to
take on the task, I'd like to make a suggestion. I don't think measuring
to the top longeron will give you the data point you want.
Given different cabane lengths and different amounts that wings get swung
back, the actual height of airplanes can differ quite a lot, even with
equivalent distances between the ground and the top longeron. I'd suggest
measuring to the top of the wing.
Actually what I'd suggest is what Oscar is suggesting. Fly, critique, and
adjust. There's so many variables in play -- tire width, stiffness of the
suspension system, rudder authority, and thus things like cutouts, distance
between rudder and wing trailing edge, etc. -- that no spreadsheet will be
able to replace the trio of fly, critique, adjust.
Cheers, Ken
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Chris <catdesigns@att.net> wrote:
>
> Oscar
>
> Gary is absolutely right, it is very dependent on the height to width. That
> is exactly what the article tells us. You can have the same width with
> taller gear and it gets tipsy, er I mean tippy. What we really need to
> make
> all this data relevant is the height of the top longeron with the top
> longeron level and the gear width. Then we can compare all the data. I
> will volunteer to collect the data, make some pretty graphs and crunch the
> data IF people will send the gear width AND height of the longeron in a the
> level position as measured on their flying Pietenpol. A qualitative report
> about you tippyness would also be appreciated. Will it tell us something?
> Who knows but it would be fun to find out.
>
> Oscar you could be the first to send in your data? Or you can fly that
> plane
> down here and I will measure it while you and Gary swap stories of broken
> planes over a few beers.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, Ca
> Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 4:58 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: squirrelly on the gear
>
> --> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> Gary;
>
> I don't want to change the subject line yet again from 'squirrelly' to
> 'tippy', so if it's OK I'll just use the term generically. I also don't
> want to get in trouble with Chris Westcoastpiet or the late Tony Bingelis
> by
> saying that we can rearrange the laws of aircraft engineering such that the
> airplane's CG no longer needs to fall on the wing chord line, or something.
> If we get that CG up higher than the angle that Pazmany says it should be
> for ground stability (or 'tippiness', to use an UNCLASSIFIED word), then we
> get a tippy airplane unless we can also rearrange the laws of physics in
> the
> vertical plane as well as in the axial plane.
>
> All of which is to say, "go fly 'er, then make adjustments till she don't
> feel so dern tippy", and "Scout ain't too tippy as she sets".
>
> Oh, and
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402161#402161
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: squirrelly on the gear |
Chris; I understand the concept of overturning moment ;o) I'll be at the hangar
this weekend and will level up the airplane and measure from the top of the
top longeron to the ground. I know I've done it before, but I don't remember
where I wrote it down.
And not to contradict what Ken said, just getting back to the design article and
a technical point, it may be that the CG is vertically positioned somewhere
near the top longeron. Look at the head-on diagram in the article and the CG
is shown roughly on the nose of the airplane, which (unless you have a Ford A-powered
Piet), is close to the level of the top longeron. Not exactly, but close.
The overturning moment is created in part by the mass at the CG acting on a moment
arm equal to its height above the ground. The higher the CG is, the 'tippier'
the airplane will be in roll, strictly talking about gravity here (no aerodynamic
forces). Resisting this tippiness are the main gear, with a wider stance
presenting more resistance to the rolling tendency or 'tippiness'.
So, while measuring to the top of the wing as Ken suggests might be useful if there
were significant mass up there, we already know that a pair of wings and
struts is only going to amount to about 1/4 the total weight of the plane... the
other 3/4 is down around where the heavier parts are. I think it would be
worthwhile to gather some numbers such as width of track and height to top of
the top longeron and then put them on a graph of some sort. If several well-established
airplanes and pilots can then provide qualitative reports on 'tippiness'
of their airplanes and those reports can be compared to where the data points
for those airplanes fall on the graph, we may see a pattern emerge. Some
of it is intuitive, of course... a ship with extended cabanes, tall wheels,
narrow gear, and a Ford A engine and radiator might be expected to be tippier
than a split-gear, wide-stance, fat tired, flat-4 engined ship would be.
All of this is stuff that we should only be doing when it's rainy, windy, and cold
out though. Right now we should be flying ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Picnic |
It's been bugging me all day Bill--province, not Providence [Wink] .
Tom
Read this topic online here:
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