Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:52 AM - Re: 4130 tubing FOR SALE (stearmandriver)
2. 06:11 AM - new member in Cincinnati area (stearmandriver)
3. 06:21 AM - Re: riblett attack (Michael Weston)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&qu (tools)
5. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&qu (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB)
6. 08:11 AM - Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&qu (nightmare)
7. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&qu (Gary Boothe)
8. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Floorboard refinish (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB)
9. 02:38 PM - Re: Wire spoke wheels size... (Jack Phillips)
10. 02:41 PM - Re: squirrelly on the gear (Jack Phillips)
11. 03:28 PM - Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&qu (Mark Roberts)
12. 03:38 PM - Re: Wire spoke wheels size... (Mark Roberts)
13. 03:40 PM - Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&q (Mark Roberts)
14. 05:20 PM - Re: Wire spoke wheels size... (Bill Church)
15. 06:02 PM - Re: Wire spoke wheels size... (Mark Roberts)
16. 06:23 PM - Re: new member in Cincinnati area (DaveG601XL)
17. 08:18 PM - Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&qu (tools)
18. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 not 1&qu (Clif Dawson)
19. 09:36 PM - Re: new member in Cincinnati area (shad bell)
20. 09:47 PM - Re: Wire spoke wheels size... (taildrags)
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| Subject: | Re: 4130 tubing FOR SALE |
pm sent
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402319#402319
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| Subject: | new member in Cincinnati area |
Hello,
I have recently acquired the bug to build a steel tube Pietenpol. Spending my
entire life in the air, in hangers and barns has left me with a love of craftsmanship.
I am not ready to start actually building but more in the research stage.
if anyone in the Cincinnati area will be in their shop or hanger this week,
I would love to stop by and have a look at your project or completed aircraft.
Thanks in advance for patience offered to a Pietenpol scrod...
Best Regards,
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402320#402320
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| Subject: | Re: riblett attack |
thanks guys. that should do it. thanks.
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 |
not 1&qu
Hmmm, are you talking about the ash pieces that go from side to side on the fuse?
I broke one and replaced it, thought it was supposed to be 3/4, it was 3/4 and
I replaced it with 3/4, thinking I should go check the plans more carefully!
Ergo, I think 3/4 is fine, the break was due to the fuse dropping onto the axle,
not normal use. If it's supposed to be 1 tapering to 3/4, you won't lose any
strength in the area of the joint, as it's predicated on 3/4 clearly.
Also, I'm not certain it EVER broke either. When I removed it, what looked like
a crack to me, was a chip of wood that was more likely broken out when the original
fittings were installed. Wasn't difficult to replace (at that point),
so did it anyway.
IF you have any doubts to reconcile, laminate on a piece to bring up the plans
dimensions. Simply carve or sand away the varnish beforehand. The laminated
piece, done correctly, will be as strong (or stronger).
I'm not sure why it would be 1 tapering to 3/4 anyway. When the plane was designed,
1" lumber was indeed 1" thick. Getting 1" thick ash these days would require
laminating, cutting down from 8 (or maybe 6/4) or more rarely, buying 5/4
lumber. It's possible Pietenpol was using what was generally available. Much
of the cross section strength here is coming from that piece being laminated
onto the belly pan piece of 1/4 plywood.
Good well fitted fittings are necessary though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402323#402323
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are |
3/4 not 1&qu
UNCLASSIFIED
> I'm not sure why it would be 1 tapering to 3/4 anyway. When the plane was designed,
1" lumber was indeed 1" thick. Getting 1" thick ash these days would require
laminating, cutting down from 8 (or maybe 6/4) or more rarely, buying 5/4
lumber. It's possible Pietenpol was using what was generally available. Much
of the cross section strength here is coming from that piece being laminated
onto the belly pan piece of 1/4 plywood.
I am not sure when the market changed but the "rationale" from the lumber industry
is:
In the past, you could buy "rough" lumber, wood that actually met the dimensions
but it was measured green and not planed or shaped, at the lumber yard. Most
home framing and construction was done with rough lumber.
It may not have a straight edge and almost looked "fuzzy" but it was in 1 inch
increments
Lumber's nominal dimensions are given in terms of green (not dried), rough (unfinished)
dimensions. The finished size is smaller, as a result of drying (which
shrinks the wood), and planing to smooth the wood. However, the difference between
"nominal" and "finished" lumber size can vary.
Now you get "finished" lumber that has been planed and shaped. BUT it is smaller
in all dimensions than rough lumber. You can order lumber in the bigger dimensions
but it is just about as cheap to buy a larger size and rip it down.
My experience in this area is in working with historic homes. We often had to rip
bigger wood down to a full specification. The best thing was to be able to
salvage wood from a period home that was being destroyed.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Just found this on Wikipedia (so it must be true):
Early standards called for green rough lumber to be of full nominal dimension when
dry. However, the dimensions have diminished over time. In 1910, a typical
finished 1-inch- (25mm) board was 1316in (21mm). In 1928, that was reduced by
4%, and yet again by 4% in 1956. In 1961, at a meeting in Scottsdale, Arizona,
the Committee on Grade Simplification and Standardization agreed to what is
now the current U.S. standard: in part, the dressed size of a 1inch (nominal)
board was fixed at 34inch; while the dressed size of 2inch (nominal) lumber was
reduced from 1 58inch to the current 1 12inch.
UNCLASSIFIED
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 |
not 1&qu
i see on the "split axle gear " plans show how it tapers to 1 inch as you mentioned,
and the steel strap under the plywood, but on the straight axle gear the
diagram just shows a non tapered piece with the steel strap on top. I dont see
a measurement for the ash, but if to scale, it looks 3/4. Which gear design
are you building Mark? If split axle, i would laminate as Tools recommended.
If straight axle, I think 3/4 ash with 16 gauge strap is the correct way of doing
it. I'm not sure why different floor design for different gear???
Also, Please confirm my Pietenpol knowledge. Wasn't the pre "improved" Aircamper
designed without the steel strap that runs from side to side tieing in the
left right gear? If so, I think the omission of 1/4 of ash is way more made
up with that added steel strap. please someone confirm or deny my perceived air
camper history.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402330#402330
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are |
3/4 not 1&qu
No steel cross strap on my straight axle gear...load tested, including side
loads and drop loads, up to 52 hrs. Ash x-member is 3/4" thick, beveled on
the ends to 3/4" to receive gear fittings.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 8:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are
3/4 not 1&qu
--> <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
i see on the "split axle gear " plans show how it tapers to 1 inch as you
mentioned, and the steel strap under the plywood, but on the straight axle
gear the diagram just shows a non tapered piece with the steel strap on top.
I dont see a measurement for the ash, but if to scale, it looks 3/4. Which
gear design are you building Mark? If split axle, i would laminate as Tools
recommended. If straight axle, I think 3/4 ash with 16 gauge strap is the
correct way of doing it. I'm not sure why different floor design for
different gear???
Also, Please confirm my Pietenpol knowledge. Wasn't the pre "improved"
Aircamper designed without the steel strap that runs from side to side
tieing in the left right gear? If so, I think the omission of 1/4 of ash is
way more made up with that added steel strap. please someone confirm or deny
my perceived air camper history.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402330#402330
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| Subject: | Re: Floorboard refinish |
UNCLASSIFIED
OK, Here with another silly question. Under the floorboards and anywhere inside
that I see bare wood. What should i use to seal the wood? I think West system
is way overkill for items not suffering wear.
Inspection shows that it is all good wood. No rot no softness. Some is obviously
sealed, some I am not sure about. As recommended, I would like to seal this
wood. How can I tell if it is sealed?
Blue Skies,
Steve D
UNCLASSIFIED
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| Subject: | Wire spoke wheels size... |
Mark,
Mine are 21" x 3.00" aluminum rims, with Avon Speedmaster tyres (from
England). The wheels have 36 spokes, the hubs are 6" wide of my own design,
machined from a solid billet of 6061 T651 aluminum. Spokes were custom made
(rolled threads) and laced by Buchanan's in California. Brakes are
Cleveland 6" hydraulic disc brakes. Total weight of each wheel, complete
with tire, tube and brake disc is 25 lbs.
Anything else you need to know?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 4:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wire spoke wheels size...
In the current discussion of the height of the landing gear, I am wondering
if you wire spoked wheel guys can tell me what wheels you chose, what size
they are when inflated, and where you got them.
I am drawing out my landing gear design from the "improved" gear design, but
plan to use wire spoked wheels, not 6" tires.
So, I want to keep the overall height of the top of the fuse in the same
location as plans, but, that will require compensation for the additional
height of the spoked wheels...
Since I have not purchased the wheels, I am wondering what size I should be
designing to match.
Thanks!
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| Subject: | squirrelly on the gear |
On NX899JP, the tread is 69" and the top longeron is at 52"
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Cardinal
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2013 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: squirrelly on the gear
<gcardinal@comcast.net>
On NX18235 the track is 56" and the top longeron is at 50".
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 7:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: squirrelly on the gear
>
> I changed the subject line ;o) Gary, what is the track (distance between
> contact patches) of your mains? I know there's a word for it but I can't
> remember it right now. Just interested in comparing that dimension
> between airplanes, as I'm sure it does have some effect on ground
> handling.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402012#402012
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 |
not 1&qu
Thanks guys... I was thinking that I might lay a .090 steel strap over the top
of the ash and use plenty of bolts to sandich the ash block, but it sounds like
some of yu are using 3/4" ash, so maybe it is a moot point. I just needed to
have some input as to whether I was in the "safe" zone. I plan to make the bottom
steel straps all the way across the belly as well, as I can see hard landings
potentially an issue with my skill set :?
Thanks for the feedback.
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402354#402354
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| Subject: | Re: Wire spoke wheels size... |
> Anything else you need to know?
Uh yeah Jack: How can I get me a pair of them nice lookin' hubs! :)
Thanks for the input. I am assuming a 21" rim is not the finished size with tire?
Would those be 3" wide or 3" high? I am not familiar with tires yet (kind ignorant
actually... can you tell by the question?)
My plan is to use Spoked Tires with "Improved" gear, and it would seem that if
I did, I would raise the top of the longerons when level by much more than the
design intended. Since the bigger wheels are taller than the wide tires of the
improved gear, it wold seem that using the wire spoked on the improved gear
would require a slight modification in the height of the gear legs, Right?
Or is this overthinking things, and it is not that critical?
Many thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402355#402355
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 |
not 1&q
Thanks Steve.... I might be over thinking the whole thing, but I want to be safe!
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402356#402356
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| Subject: | Re: Wire spoke wheels size... |
Mark,
My rule of thumb is "when all else fails, read the instructions (plans)".
In this case, referring to drawing No. 3 (split axle LG), we see that the drawings
recommend 19" x 9" air wheels, but say that 24" x 4" or similar wheels may
also be used. The 24" x 4" wheels would be the tall, skinny "motorcycle" wheels.
As Greg mentioned, his wheels with 19" rims are about 25" tall when the
tires are added. 21" rims typically produce a wheel that is about 27" diameter,
when the tires get installed. Remember that the axle height is affected by
the RADIUS of the wheels. A 25" diameter wheel will have an axle that is 12
1/2" off the ground, and a 27" wheel will have an axle that is only 1" higher
(13 1/2").
Going back to drawing No. 1, we see that the dimensions provided for W&B indicate
a recommended longeron height of 51" - based on using 24" x 4" wheels.
So, in summary, the landing gear should work fine as drawn, with tall wheels.
If you choose to use taller wheels, it won't make much difference, but you could
adjust the geometry slightly to maintain the longeron height called for in
the plans.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402359#402359
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dwg_no_3_lg_604.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dwg_no_1_lg_207.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Wire spoke wheels size... |
Thanks Bill... how many times have I looked at the plans and not registered those
sizes?
Kinda like looking for car keys that are on the kitchen table but all you focus
on is the salt and pepper shakers.... Doap!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402360#402360
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| Subject: | Re: new member in Cincinnati area |
Dave,
I see your tag says you live in Pleasant Plain, OH. Well, I also live in Pleasant
Plain and it's not that big of a town so we have got to be just a few miles
apart. I will warn you in advance that I have a GN-1 project out of wood, but
you are welcome to stop over anyway and we can talk airplane building. I will
try to send you a PM through Matronics with contact info.
--------
David Gallagher
Zodiac 601 XL-B: flying, 250+ hours now
Next project under construction: Finish my father's Aircamper
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are 3/4 |
not 1&qu
For the data point, mine is 3/4 all the way, no strap across, WELL TESTED. However,
mine doesn't have the beveling, the bolts all JUST fit...
I rebuilt it just like it was and tested it again! Seems to be just fine. Seriously,
I believe the biggest issue is getting things to fit properly so there's
no movement.
Tools
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| Subject: | Re: Ash fuse gear block mounts... Just realized are |
3/4 not 1&qu
The plans in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual show
the steel straps across the top of the cross-members.
My understanding is that they are there to tie the left
and right wing struts together, not the landing gear as
the stress there is in compression while the lower strut
fittings, indeed, the entire strut system, is in tension
while in the air.
Clif
>
> Thanks guys... I was thinking that I might lay a .090 steel strap over the
> top of the ash and use plenty of bolts to sandich the ash block, but it
> sounds like some of yu are using 3/4" ash, so maybe it is a moot point. I
> just needed to have some input as to whether I was in the "safe" zone. I
> plan to make the bottom steel straps all the way across the belly as well,
> as I can see hard landings potentially an issue with my skill set :?
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402354#402354
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
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| Subject: | Re: new member in Cincinnati area |
Welcome Dave!- I am up here north of Columbus OH about 25 miles in Center
burg.- I live here on Chapman Memorial Field 6CM, if you are up in this a
rea let me know and you are welcome to stop by.- My Dad's Pietenpol is he
re in my hangar, as well as a Baby Lakes biplane I am in the finishing stag
es before final assembly, and a Jungster 1 biplane I hope to have done befo
re Christmas 2099.
-
Shad
--- On Sun, 6/9/13, stearmandriver <pwr2800@gmail.com> wrote:
From: stearmandriver <pwr2800@gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: new member in Cincinnati area
Hello,
I have recently acquired the bug to build a steel tube Pietenpol.- Spendi
ng my entire life in the air, in hangers and barns has left me with a love
of craftsmanship. I am not ready to start actually building but more in the
research stage. if anyone in the Cincinnati area will be in their shop or
hanger this week, I would love to stop by and have a look at your project o
r completed aircraft.
Thanks in advance for patience offered to a Pietenpol scrod...
Best Regards,
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402320#402320
le, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: Wire spoke wheels size... |
Okay. Back at the hangar today and measured the spoked rims that I posted pix
of a day or two ago. What I have are Takasago EXCEL aluminum rims with IRC tires
that are 3.50-16, 4 ply rating. There are disk brakes fitted that appear
to be Airheart 150x1 hydraulics. From the hangar floor to the top of the inflated
tire is about 23-1/4".
Spoked wheels and narrow tires with brakes look like a really sweet combination,
although I've never flown them.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402368#402368
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