---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/17/13: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:24 AM - Re: [Shaw Suspected Junk Email] Re: wood vs steel struts (Clif Dawson) 2. 01:27 AM - Re: Douwe's truck (Clif Dawson) 3. 04:00 AM - Re: Re: wood vs steel struts (helspersew@aol.com) 4. 04:54 AM - Re: Re: wood vs steel struts (Jack Phillips) 5. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: wood vs steel struts (Michael Orth) 6. 06:20 AM - Re: Latex Paint Forum (womenfly2) 7. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol Picnic (Charles Burkholder) 8. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: WW2 Jeep Gauges () 9. 06:31 AM - Re: Still Learning to Fly (Charles Burkholder) 10. 06:46 AM - Re: WW2 Jeep Gauges (TriScout) 11. 06:47 AM - Re: Still Learning to Fly (John Francis) 12. 06:51 AM - Re: WW2 Jeep Gauges (TriScout) 13. 07:07 AM - Re: 4130 tubing FOR SALE (Trevor) 14. 07:24 AM - rudder & elevator hinges (Trevor) 15. 07:34 AM - Re: engine out.. (bender) 16. 07:36 AM - Re: wood vs steel struts (nightmare) 17. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: wood vs steel struts (John Woods) 18. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: wood vs steel struts (Jack Phillips) 19. 03:08 PM - ELT Location (Larry Morlock) 20. 03:54 PM - Re: wood vs steel struts (dgaldrich) 21. 04:12 PM - Re: ELT Location (Gary Boothe) 22. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: engine out.. (Gary Boothe) 23. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Latex Paint Forum (gliderx5@comcast.net) 24. 05:13 PM - Re: engine out.. (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 25. 05:46 PM - My "hood ornament" (Douwe) 26. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: wood vs steel struts (Jack Phillips) 27. 06:14 PM - Re: My "hood ornament" (Gary Boothe) 28. 06:15 PM - Re: wood vs steel struts (nightmare) 29. 06:43 PM - Sunset - send in your favorite photo (Douwe) 30. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: wood vs steel struts (Jack Phillips) 31. 08:12 PM - Re: Sunset - send in your favorite photo (Greg Cardinal) 32. 09:41 PM - Re: wood vs steel struts (nightmare) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:27 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: [Shaw Suspected Junk Email] Re: Pietenpol-List: wood vs steel struts Another, much lighter, possibility. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DarTJsvbaQk Hmmmm......maybe the entire enchelada, er, airplane even. :-) Clif You may want to buy streamline aluminum struts and then wrap them with a thin wood veneer. Michael Perez ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:54 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's truck It wasn't singing was it? I'll bet it wasn't. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig. " Someone Clif > Douwe , I found your truck at the San Antonio airport > Paul Donahue ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts From: helspersew@aol.com Paul, I used four of the small Carlson struts. They work great. Larry Williams h as them also. His Piet has many miles on it. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: nightmare Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 10:49 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts om> Great resource. Better price than I thought. I imagine the "small strut" i s acceptable. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402792#402792 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:45 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Fairly simple to calculate. First, figure out what gross weight your airplane will have (in order to make this calculation conservative, pick a number higher than you really think it will be). For the purpose of this exercise, let's say the gross weight is 1300 lbs. Then multiply that by the highest load factor (G-load) you would expect to survive in extreme turbulence or maneuvers. 5 G's is a common number for ultimate loading (the load that would cause something to break). So this means the wing is carrying 1300 x 5 or 6,500 lbs of load. Most of the wing load is carried by the lift struts. A Pietenpol has a 29' wingspan, with a 2' wide centersection, so each wing panel is 13' 6" wide and carries 13.5/29 or 47% of the load, which in this example is 3,025 lbs. Since the lift struts attach in the middle of the wing panel, virtually all of the lift load is transferred to the struts, with very little load carried by the bolts attaching the wing panel to the centersection (low enough to be ignored in this example). So the two lift struts on each side carry 3,025 lbs between them. Calculating how much of that load is carried by the front strut and how much by the rear is a bit more difficult. The distribution of load varies with the location of the center of pressure, which moves around as the angle of attack changes, and the location of the center of gravity, which varies with how the airplane is loaded (fuel and passengers, for example). It is probably safe to say that the front strut carries up to about 3/4 of the wing load, since it is pretty close to the C.G. So that means with a 1300 lb Pietenpol loaded to 5 G's by turbulence or extreme aerobatics, the front struts each are carrying (3/4)x(3,025) or 2,270 lbs. OK, we've found the load the struts carry. The stress is simply that load divided by the cross sectional area of the strut. For a round tube, the area is easy to calculate: Area = =F0(d2outside - d2inside)/4 Assuming you are using 1" diameter 4130 steel tubing, with a wall thickness of 0.049", the cross-sectional area would be =F0 x (1.0002 - .9022)/4 or .146 in2 . With 2,270 lbs being carried by .146 in2, the stress in that strut would be 2270/.146 or 15,505 psi. Since normalized 4130 has an ultimate strength of 90,000 psi, this is certainly a safe load for that steel strut to carry. So for wood or aluminum struts, you simply need to know the breaking strength of the material and the cross-sectional area of the strut and you can calculate the stress. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Does anyone know what the actual stress pressures on the struts? The aluminum struts seem to me quite strong for normal flight, but when I compared the strength of the steel vs aluminum, there is so much difference I am curious by what factor is actually necessary? Anyone able to calculate the strength Needed by the struts? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402825#402825 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:28 AM PST US From: "Michael Orth" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Excellent explanation. Thank you, Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 4:54 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Fairly simple to calculate. First, figure out what gross weight your airplane will have (in order to make this calculation conservative, pick a number higher than you really think it will be). For the purpose of this exercise, let's say the gross weight is 1300 lbs. Then multiply that by the highest load factor (G-load) you would expect to survive in extreme turbulence or maneuvers. 5 G's is a common number for ultimate loading (the load that would cause something to break). So this means the wing is carrying 1300 x 5 or 6,500 lbs of load. Most of the wing load is carried by the lift struts. A Pietenpol has a 29' wingspan, with a 2' wide centersection, so each wing panel is 13' 6" wide and carries 13.5/29 or 47% of the load, which in this example is 3,025 lbs. Since the lift struts attach in the middle of the wing panel, virtually all of the lift load is transferred to the struts, with very little load carried by the bolts attaching the wing panel to the centersection (low enough to be ignored in this example). So the two lift struts on each side carry 3,025 lbs between them. Calculating how much of that load is carried by the front strut and how much by the rear is a bit more difficult. The distribution of load varies with the location of the center of pressure, which moves around as the angle of attack changes, and the location of the center of gravity, which varies with how the airplane is loaded (fuel and passengers, for example). It is probably safe to say that the front strut carries up to about 3/4 of the wing load, since it is pretty close to the C.G. So that means with a 1300 lb Pietenpol loaded to 5 G's by turbulence or extreme aerobatics, the front struts each are carrying (3/4)x(3,025) or 2,270 lbs. OK, we've found the load the struts carry. The stress is simply that load divided by the cross sectional area of the strut. For a round tube, the area is easy to calculate: Area = =CF(d2outside =93 d2inside)/4 Assuming you are using 1=9D diameter 4130 steel tubing, with a wall thickness of 0.049=9D, the cross-sectional area would be =CF x (1.0002 - .9022)/4 or .146 in2 . With 2,270 lbs being carried by .146 in2, the stress in that strut would be 2270/.146 or 15,505 psi. Since normalized 4130 has an ultimate strength of 90,000 psi, this is certainly a safe load for that steel strut to carry. So for wood or aluminum struts, you simply need to know the breaking strength of the material and the cross-sectional area of the strut and you can calculate the stress. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Does anyone know what the actual stress pressures on the struts? The aluminum struts seem to me quite strong for normal flight, but when I compared the strength of the steel vs aluminum, there is so much difference I am curious by what factor is actually necessary? Anyone able to calculate the strength Needed by the struts? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402825#402825 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06/16/13 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Latex Paint Forum From: "womenfly2" I would be interested in your forum on this subject. Possible to do a video and post it on YouTube for us not attending? WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402854#402854 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:25 AM PST US From: "Charles Burkholder" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Picnic It was great. I got to comb a pietenpol over and I got my first ride in Brian's Piet C-FAUK... Was a great experience and a great motivator..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Picnic > > > Weather co-operated. Sunny and comfortable temperatures all day. Bit of > a crosswind. Lots of people turned out. Only two Piets present, but a > selection of other interesting aircraft showed up. > > Unfortunately, I had a bit of mechanical trouble on the way, so I didn't > arrive until almost 2pm. And once I had said hello to all the faces I > knew, most of the aircraft had departed - so I have almost no photos to > share. However, I did take a handful of photos. Here are a few snapped > at the end of the day. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402827#402827 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4418_138.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4426_269.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4430_183.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:35 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: WW2 Jeep Gauges I have a O-200 any idea how the temperature gauge would work with the probe on it? Rodney Hall ---- TriScout wrote: > > ......added pic's (clearer).......end msg > > -------- > L.Metzel > KLNC > A65-8 > N2308C > AN Hardware > Airframe 712TT > W72CK-42 Sensenich > Standard Factory GN-1 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402823#402823 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/1_214.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/photo_150.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:35 AM PST US From: "Charles Burkholder" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Still Learning to Fly Is this at Red Stewart or Dayton Wright Bro? CB ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Francis" Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 2:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Still Learning to Fly > > As Bob DeWenter announced last week, I finally soloed. Between Part 141 > and the flying schools' restrictions it became difficult to find a good > time for me to solo. My solo was scheduled 7 times and cancelled due to > strong winds > (over 5 knot crosswind component) or a wind speed over 15 knots. It's > been a windy Spring around here! Fortunately I was able to continue to > fly and accumulate hours with my instructor waiting for the solo. > > I continue to gain confidence and improvement with each of my flights. I > am sure looking forward to moving on to some cross country navigation and > flights. > > Landings have been the most difficult part of flying for me. I just can't > seem to get the knack of it. I'll probably just get it in the 172 when I > transfer over to the Piper Cub for the rest of the training. Here is a > good example of one of my landings. Bob is narrating and taking the > video. He gets a little excited and thinks it is my third > landing......but it is only my second. I hope he knows how much I > appreciate having this on film. I had a gopro camera in my flight bag but > forgot to take it out. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_qzyyNBu0E > > The flying lessons have motivated me to work harder on my Piet build just > like attending fly-ins, Brodhead, and EAA meets. > > -------- > John Francis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402806#402806 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WW2 Jeep Gauges From: "TriScout" That's a "penzon"..........penzon if you have an 0200A or not. The A has same limit as A65... Up to 225deg limit. Later models go up to 240deg...and higher limitations on certain models of that motor. -------- L.Metzel KLNC A65-8 N2308C AN Hardware Airframe 712TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402859#402859 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Still Learning to Fly From: "John Francis" Dayton Wight Brothers Rwy 2 -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402860#402860 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: WW2 Jeep Gauges From: "TriScout" Oh...windscreen. I'm out on a trip at moment...just have this apple product to work with, or I would get some close shots of windscreen posted. -------- L.Metzel KLNC A65-8 N2308C AN Hardware Airframe 712TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402861#402861 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 4130 tubing FOR SALE From: "Trevor" We are soon to do a production run here in the UK of 4130 lift strut tubing 2.69 x 1.44 x 0.049 if anyone is interested or you have a group requirement please contact with quantity. It may be very interesting if a good freight cost can be found. -------- Building a Pietenpol-a lot to learn! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402864#402864 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder & elevator hinges From: "Trevor" Can anyone advise what grade of aluminium is used for the cast hinges. Has a machined hinge been used as a replacement ? Thanks Trevor -------- Building a Pietenpol-a lot to learn! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402865#402865 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine out.. From: "bender" My spars are douglas fir.. and I found some within an hour from here. plan to pick of a board or 2 today and start scarfing. the repair other than scarfing the joint that is still on the plane looks pretty easy. A couple of the pilots here at work are asking when i'm going to put an airplane engine on it. I really hate to do that because the A is really cool. I do know of an A75 locally that I could get for a good price.. needs overhaul, but that's easy. I hope to keep the A.. going to tear it apart unless I find an ignition or carb prob just to figure this out. but the wing is first.. gotta have that no matter the engine choice. I'm thinking a lot about the oil pressure.. or lack of..being the possible issue. jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402866#402866 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts From: "nightmare" awesome breakdown jack!!!! and thanks for your response as well Dan. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402867#402867 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:23 PM PST US From: John Woods Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Jack, One thing you missed..... The struts are at an angle to the wing, so this must be taken into account. If the included=C2-angle is=C2-30 degrees down from the wing then you h ave to divide the load by sin30. Effectively this doubles the strut tension load from 2270 lbs to 4540 lbs. Best regards, John Woods ----- "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > Fairly simple to calculate.=C2- First, figure out what gross weight your airplane will have (in order to make this calculation conservative, pick a number higher than you really think it will be).=C2- For the purpose of t his exercise, let's say the gross weight is 1300 lbs. Then multiply that by the highest load factor (G-load) you would expect to survive in extreme turbulence or maneuvers.=C2- 5 G's is a common number for ultimate loading (the load that would cause something to break).=C2- So this means the wing is carrying 1300 x 5 or 6,500 lbs of load. Most of the wing load is carried by the lift struts.=C2- A Pietenpol has a 29' wingspan, with a 2' wide centersection, so each wing panel is 13' 6" wide and carries 13.5/29 or 47% of the load, which in this example is 3,025 lbs. Since the lift struts attach in the middle of the wing panel, virtually all of the lift load is transferred to the struts, with very little load carri ed by the bolts attaching the wing panel to the centersection (low enough t o be ignored in this example).=C2- So the two lift struts on each side ca rry 3,025 lbs between them. Calculating how much of that load is carried by the front strut and how muc h by the rear is a bit more difficult.=C2- The distribution of load varie s with the location of the center of pressure, which moves around as the an gle of attack changes, and the location of the center of gravity, which var ies with how the airplane is loaded (fuel and passengers, for example).=C2 - It is probably safe to say that the front strut carries up to about 3/4 of the wing load, since it is pretty close to the C.G. So that means with a 1300 lb Pietenpol loaded to 5 G's by turbulence or ext reme aerobatics, the front struts each are carrying (3/4)x(3,025) or 2,270 lbs. OK, we've found the load the struts carry.=C2- The stress is simply that load divided by the cross sectional area of the strut.=C2- For a round tu be, the area is easy to calculate:=C2- Area = =CF(d 2 outside =93 d 2 inside )/4 Assuming you are using 1=9D diameter 4130 steel tubing, with a wall t hickness of 0.049=9D, the cross-sectional area would be =CF x (1.0 00 2 - .902 2 )/4 or .146 in 2 .=C2- With 2,270 lbs being carried by .146 in 2 , the stress in that strut would be 2270/.146 or 15,505 psi.=C2- Si nce normalized 4130 has an ultimate strength of 90,000 psi, this is certain ly a safe load for that steel strut to carry. So for wood or aluminum struts, you simply need to know the breaking streng th of the material and the cross-sectional area of the strut and you can ca lculate the stress. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:29 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts > Does anyone know what the actual stress pressures on the struts? The alumin um struts seem to me quite strong for normal flight, but when I compared th e strength of the steel vs aluminum, there is so much difference I am curio us by what factor is actually necessary? Anyone able to calculate the stren gth Needed by the struts? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402825#402825 === === === === === === === === === === === === === === === == ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:16 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Oops! Of course you are right, John. I wondered, because I remember doing the analysis years ago when I built my Pietenpol and it seemed like the struts were a lot more highly loaded than that. That's what I get for trying to work from memory, instead of drawing a free body diagram. So in my example, the stress in the steel tube strut would be more like 31,000 psi, which is getting into significant stress range. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Woods Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Jack, One thing you missed..... The struts are at an angle to the wing, so this must be taken into account. If the included angle is 30 degrees down from the wing then you have to divide the load by sin30. Effectively this doubles the strut tension load from 2270 lbs to 4540 lbs. Best regards, John Woods ----- "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > Fairly simple to calculate. First, figure out what gross weight your airplane will have (in order to make this calculation conservative, pick a number higher than you really think it will be). For the purpose of this exercise, let's say the gross weight is 1300 lbs. Then multiply that by the highest load factor (G-load) you would expect to survive in extreme turbulence or maneuvers. 5 G's is a common number for ultimate loading (the load that would cause something to break). So this means the wing is carrying 1300 x 5 or 6,500 lbs of load. Most of the wing load is carried by the lift struts. A Pietenpol has a 29' wingspan, with a 2' wide centersection, so each wing panel is 13' 6" wide and carries 13.5/29 or 47% of the load, which in this example is 3,025 lbs. Since the lift struts attach in the middle of the wing panel, virtually all of the lift load is transferred to the struts, with very little load carried by the bolts attaching the wing panel to the centersection (low enough to be ignored in this example). So the two lift struts on each side carry 3,025 lbs between them. Calculating how much of that load is carried by the front strut and how much by the rear is a bit more difficult. The distribution of load varies with the location of the center of pressure, which moves around as the angle of attack changes, and the location of the center of gravity, which varies with how the airplane is loaded (fuel and passengers, for example). It is probably safe to say that the front strut carries up to about 3/4 of the wing load, since it is pretty close to the C.G. So that means with a 1300 lb Pietenpol loaded to 5 G's by turbulence or extreme aerobatics, the front struts each are carrying (3/4)x(3,025) or 2,270 lbs. OK, we've found the load the struts carry. The stress is simply that load divided by the cross sectional area of the strut. For a round tube, the area is easy to calculate: Area = =F0(d2outside - d2inside)/4 Assuming you are using 1" diameter 4130 steel tubing, with a wall thickness of 0.049", the cross-sectional area would be =F0 x (1.0002 - .9022)/4 or .146 in2 . With 2,270 lbs being carried by .146 in2, the stress in that strut would be 2270/.146 or 15,505 psi. Since normalized 4130 has an ultimate strength of 90,000 psi, this is certainly a safe load for that steel strut to carry. So for wood or aluminum struts, you simply need to know the breaking strength of the material and the cross-sectional area of the strut and you can calculate the stress. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:29 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Does anyone know what the actual stress pressures on the struts? The aluminum struts seem to me quite strong for normal flight, but when I compared the strength of the steel vs aluminum, there is so much difference I am curious by what factor is actually necessary? Anyone able to calculate the strength Needed by the struts? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402825#402825 " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:28 PM PST US From: "Larry Morlock" Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Location Need some help on where to mount the ELT and ELT antenna on my Pietenpol. I had not intended to have an ELT based on reports from this group that they were not required to have one by their DAR because of staying within 25 miles of the home airport for the first 40 hours. Now that my plane is finished (see attached pic), my DAR says I must have one. So, I am essentially having to retrofit an ELT to a plane I didn't design to have one. At this point I am leaning toward putting the ELT between the legs of the passenger on the floor of the front pit. For the antenna, I am leaning toward mounting it on the forward portion of the coaming (tho it will hurt to drill a mounting hole in my finished cowl), as that's the only existing metal that is large enough to act as a ground plane. I know its preferred (but not required) to mount the ELT as far aft as possible, but at this point, I would have to do some major rework to mount the ELT and create a ground plane anywhere behind the pilot, not to mention the negative effect on CG. I've gone through all the Matronics archives without finding a good solution for my situation, so would invite any input on: 1. Where you mounted the ELT. 2. Where you mounted the ELT antenna. 3. What you used as a ground plane. Especially if it's mounted in a forward location. Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts From: "dgaldrich" Jack As one of my engineering profs from back in the stone ages used to say about his exams -- "No free body diagram, no credit!!!" Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402898#402898 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:47 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ELT Location Larry, I can't help you with the ELT, since mine is behind the pilot.but your Piet sure turned out nice!! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 3:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: ELT Location Need some help on where to mount the ELT and ELT antenna on my Pietenpol. I had not intended to have an ELT based on reports from this group that they were not required to have one by their DAR because of staying within 25 miles of the home airport for the first 40 hours. Now that my plane is finished (see attached pic), my DAR says I must have one. So, I am essentially having to retrofit an ELT to a plane I didn't design to have one. At this point I am leaning toward putting the ELT between the legs of the passenger on the floor of the front pit. For the antenna, I am leaning toward mounting it on the forward portion of the coaming (tho it will hurt to drill a mounting hole in my finished cowl), as that's the only existing metal that is large enough to act as a ground plane. I know its preferred (but not required) to mount the ELT as far aft as possible, but at this point, I would have to do some major rework to mount the ELT and create a ground plane anywhere behind the pilot, not to mention the negative effect on CG. I've gone through all the Matronics archives without finding a good solution for my situation, so would invite any input on: 1. Where you mounted the ELT. 2. Where you mounted the ELT antenna. 3. What you used as a ground plane. Especially if it's mounted in a forward location. Larry Morlock ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine out.. From: Gary Boothe Jeff, Either those guys that want you to change engines are secretly envious, or they don't want to admit that they don't have the gonads to build and fly a real experimental! (Not that there's anything wrong with a/c engines...that was simply not your choice) They sound like some of the same guys from my airport! I'm not an 'A' guy, but I know there are plenty of guys on this list who are quite experienced, and just waiting for you to ask some direct questions. When you get the bugs worked out, like Dan Helsper did, those guys will be awed by your cool-sounding engine, take credit for helping you to fix it, then move on to the next airport to beat up on someone else... Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2013, at 7:33 AM, "bender" wrote: > > My spars are douglas fir.. and I found some within an hour from here. > plan to pick of a board or 2 today and start scarfing. > the repair other than scarfing the joint that is still on the plane looks pretty easy. > A couple of the pilots here at work are asking when i'm going to put an airplane engine on it. I really hate to do that because the A is really cool. > I do know of an A75 locally that I could get for a good price.. needs overhaul, but that's easy. I hope to keep the A.. going to tear it apart unless I find an ignition or carb prob just to figure this out. > but the wing is first.. gotta have that no matter the engine choice. > I'm thinking a lot about the oil pressure.. or lack of..being the possible issue. > > jeff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402866#402866 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:52 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Latex Paint Forum WF2 I will see what I can do about recording the session. At a minimum I will have an expanded and updated Powerpoint presentation available. Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "womenfly2" Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 9:19:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Latex Paint Forum I would be interested in your forum on this subject. Possible to do a video and post it on YouTube for us not attending? WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402854#402854 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine out.. From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Jeff, I'm with Gary! If your airplane shows up at Brodhead without the Model A powering it, we are going to drink all your home brew and shave your beard while you sleep! -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402906#402906 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: My "hood ornament" From: Douwe The dirty rotten fourflusher stole my flying pig!! Mine's way cooler... Douwe ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:00 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Yep - that's a good rule. An FBD tends to point out such little things as vector components, which would have cued me in on this one. I was so busy thinking about how to explain how you get from the loading to the stresses in the strut that I neglected to mention the huge effect the strut geometry has on the loading (and the stresses). As long as we're having this discussion, it's probably appropriate to mention that one of the problems with wooden or aluminum struts is how to make the attachments to the fittings. Almost invariably such attachments have to be made with bolts loaded in shear, so the shear strength of the wood or aluminum must be considered. It is not a trivial exercise. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia A retired engineer, who perhaps should STAY retired Jack As one of my engineering profs from back in the stone ages used to say about his exams -- "No free body diagram, no credit!!!" Dave ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:42 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: My "hood ornament" ...and goes higher. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My "hood ornament" --> The dirty rotten fourflusher stole my flying pig!! Mine's way cooler... Douwe ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts From: "nightmare" Jack, if using steel struts, do you recommend welding in bushings for the straps to bolt through, or is this creating a future location for a crack? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402911#402911 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sunset - send in your favorite photo From: Douwe An evocative pic to spur everyone towards the finish line (even if its the s econd finish line). How 'bout everyone send in their favorite photo? Douwe Sent from my iPhone



________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:27 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts It's too hard to recommend anything without seeing the design you are using. Everybody's plane is different. I welded my struts (made from old J-3 Cub front struts). Welds don't necessarily cause cracks if they're done right. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 9:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts Jack, if using steel struts, do you recommend welding in bushings for the straps to bolt through, or is this creating a future location for a crack? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402911#402911 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:54 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sunset - send in your favorite photo >From Brodhead 2012. Photo courtesy of Pat Hoyt. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe" Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sunset - send in your favorite photo An evocative pic to spur everyone towards the finish line (even if its the second finish line). How 'bout everyone send in their favorite photo? Douwe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Sent from my iPhone >

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________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts From: "nightmare" I understand. Thanks Jack -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402917#402917 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.