---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/29/13: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:40 AM - Re: coconut hair (Bill Church) 2. 05:42 AM - Brodhead idea (Bill Church) 3. 07:28 AM - Re: Brodhead idea (Dan Yocum) 4. 10:19 AM - wood fuselage weight (nightmare) 5. 10:35 AM - Re: wood fuselage weight (Bkemike) 6. 11:44 AM - Re: wood fuselage weight (nightmare) 7. 11:47 AM - Mountain Piet update - wing rigging (Greg Bacon) 8. 11:57 AM - Re: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging (Out of Office) (TOM STINEMETZE) 9. 11:57 AM - Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts (Greg Bacon) 10. 12:45 PM - Re: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts (Gary Boothe) 11. 12:45 PM - Re: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging (Jack Phillips) 12. 12:52 PM - Re: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts (Jack Phillips) 13. 01:18 PM - Re: Airfoils (Bill Church) 14. 03:46 PM - Advance, the fuselage (giacummo) 15. 04:26 PM - Re: Advance, the fuselage (Gary Boothe) 16. 04:42 PM - Re: Advance, the fuselage (giacummo) 17. 07:07 PM - Pietenpol GoPro pictures (Baldeagle) 18. 07:09 PM - Re: Pietenpol GoPro pictures (Baldeagle) 19. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Airfoils (Isablcorky@aol.com) 20. 07:55 PM - Re: Airfoils (nightmare) 21. 08:02 PM - Re: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging (Greg Bacon) 22. 08:05 PM - Re: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts (Greg Bacon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: coconut hair From: "Bill Church" "I tried to stop, but it was one long strand." Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405560#405560 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead idea From: "Bill Church" A suggestion: Next year, I think Brodhead should be held in Wisconsin. Alaska was just too cold. BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405561#405561 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:30 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead idea We tried that last year and it was too hot. Maybe Ontario would be nicer... do not archive On 07/29/2013 07:42 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > A suggestion: > > Next year, I think Brodhead should be held in Wisconsin. > Alaska was just too cold. > > BC > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405561#405561 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:22 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood fuselage weight From: "nightmare" Ive recently changed my mind about fuselage material. Have decided to build steel tube, and just received my order from Wicks. Was surprised to see shipping weight of 37 lbs. And I ordered some extra tubing ( I think ) and some nuts and bolts. If anyone has weight numbers for their wood fuselage detailing what is attached and not, would love to see those numbers for comparison. I would be sure to post my weights as well. Also, Fyi; wicks is much cheaper than AS&S with 4130. My total for fuselage tubing was about $360.00 plus $30.00 shipping. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405578#405578 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:48 AM PST US From: Bkemike Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood fuselage weight I don't know about Wicks being cheaper across the board; most tubing in a steel Piet is 5/8 - .035. AS&S gets $1.96/ft, Wicks wants $2.94/ft (10:30 am PDT, July 29, 2013). Mike Hardaway Tapped on an iPad. On Jul 29, 2013, at 10:18 AM, "nightmare" wrote: > > Ive recently changed my mind about fuselage material. Have decided to build steel tube, and just received my order from Wicks. Was surprised to see shipping weight of 37 lbs. And I ordered some extra tubing ( I think ) and some nuts and bolts. > If anyone has weight numbers for their wood fuselage detailing what is attached and not, would love to see those numbers for comparison. I would be sure to post my weights as well. > Also, Fyi; wicks is much cheaper than AS&S with 4130. My total for fuselage tubing was about $360.00 plus $30.00 shipping. > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405578#405578 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood fuselage weight From: "nightmare" I actually counted mostly 1/2 then 5/8 then 3/4 then least amount 7/8. AS&S was cheapest for the 5/8 but more expensive for the others. My geneneral statement about cheaper prices also included the nuts bolts and washers. It was only a 14.00 dollar difference for steel alone. not as much as i had originally thought, but these pennies add up. I also like supporting the "little guy". If competition goes down, prices go up. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405589#405589 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging From: Greg Bacon Hello everyone, Attached is a recent photo of Mountain Piet. Currently, I'm in wing rigging mode. I've decided to follow Mike Cuy's example, going with 1 inch dihedral and 3/8 inch washout. Also, I like the look of a bit of dihedral. Still a bunch to do, but could begin test flights in the Fall. -- Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO NX114D(Mountain Piet) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:16 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging (Out of Office) Tom Stinemetze will be unavailable for the remainder of the month of March. I will be back in my office on April 1, 2013. >>> Greg Bacon 07/29/13 13:47 >>> Hello everyone, Attached is a recent photo of Mountain Piet. Currently, I'm in wing rigging mode. I've decided to follow Mike Cuy's example, going with 1 inch dihedral and 3/8 inch washout. Also, I like the look of a bit of dihedral. Still a bunch to do, but could begin test flights in the Fall. -- Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO NX114D(Mountain Piet) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts From: Greg Bacon What kind of nut is recommended for the wing attach bolts? John Dilatush used nylon locking nuts on his wing attach bolts. What is the rule of thumb for using castle nuts vs lock nuts? My first thought was to use the castle nut - cotter pins in areas that are not easily viewed and/or where the nut would have a torque type force working on it. Thanks, -- Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO NX114D(Mountain Piet) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts From: Gary Boothe I used castle nuts, partly for the reason you stated, and partly because my s et up is very tight, and it is far easier to get them threaded and tightened .. Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Greg Bacon wrote: > What kind of nut is recommended for the wing attach bolts? John Dilatush u sed nylon locking nuts on his wing attach bolts. What is the rule of thumb f or using castle nuts vs lock nuts? My first thought was to use the castle n ut - cotter pins in areas that are not easily viewed and/or where the nut wo uld have a torque type force working on it. > > Thanks, > > -- > Greg Bacon > Prairie Home, MO > NX114D(Mountain Piet) > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:39 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging Greg, What engine do you have in it now? Is it still the Subaru? Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging Hello everyone, Attached is a recent photo of Mountain Piet. Currently, I'm in wing rigging mode. I've decided to follow Mike Cuy's example, going with 1 inch dihedral and 3/8 inch washout. Also, I like the look of a bit of dihedral. Still a bunch to do, but could begin test flights in the Fall. -- Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO NX114D(Mountain Piet) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:24 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts Greg, Castle nuts are preferred any where that rotation can be applied to the joint (which should NOT be the case for the wing attach bolts). Nylon stopnuts should be fine, but I prefer to use the MS21042 all metal lock nuts, primarily because they are lighter and smaller than standard AN 310 castle nuts, but still develop the same load. They were standard hardware for all bolts on the F-16 program when I worked at General Dynamics many years ago. Castle nuts are fine if you have room to install the cotter pins. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts What kind of nut is recommended for the wing attach bolts? John Dilatush used nylon locking nuts on his wing attach bolts. What is the rule of thumb for using castle nuts vs lock nuts? My first thought was to use the castle nut - cotter pins in areas that are not easily viewed and/or where the nut would have a torque type force working on it. Thanks, -- Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO NX114D(Mountain Piet) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoils From: "Bill Church" Corky, There was a "real world" side-by-side comparison done recently with two virtually identical Piets - one with a traditional Pietenpol airfoil, and one with a Riblett airfoil. PF Beck published the results here on the List, and also presented the results at Brodhead on the weekend. Essentially, the differences in performance between the two airfoils (when used on a Pietenpol wing) are negligible. The choice is up to the builder as to which airfoil to use, but performance-wise, very little difference should be expected. Huge thanks go out to PF Beck and Don Harper for doing this research. Here are links to the results: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t'005&highlight=riblett http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t'797&highlight=riblett Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405605#405605 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Advance, the fuselage From: "giacummo" Hello, When you where/are enjoin in Broadhead/Oshkosh, i was moving the fuselaje from the garage it was to an hangar where I am putting the semi-ended things. It was a funy trip. I covered the bottom and sides by now.. Next step cables and engine.. lets see. Some photos of the event. Regards Not archive -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405619#405619 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05247_169.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05246_203.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05245_249.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:03 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Advance, the fuselage Happy Day, Mario! Did your moving vehicle determine the gear width? Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Advance, the fuselage --> Hello, When you where/are enjoin in Broadhead/Oshkosh, i was moving the fuselaje from the garage it was to an hangar where I am putting the semi-ended things. It was a funy trip. I covered the bottom and sides by now.. Next step cables and engine.. lets see. Some photos of the event. Regards Not archive -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405619#405619 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05247_169.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05246_203.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05245_249.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Advance, the fuselage From: "giacummo" the side doors dont close because the doors touch the nuts of the wheels, so we have to put a couple of wood pieces under the wheels to lift it 4 inches over them. incredible, very very tight. it was comic see it over this little truck. -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405623#405623 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol GoPro pictures From: "Baldeagle" >From Winchester, Indiana, and Brodhead. Still playing with angles and such, and needed a little more wide angle while trying to catch Dan, but got some good ones I think. Re-Piet in the distance Airport in background - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405631#405631 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol GoPro pictures From: "Baldeagle" Dawn Patrol in Winchester - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405632#405632 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:31 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoils In a message dated 7/29/2013 3:18:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, billspiet@sympatico.ca writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Corky, There was a "real world" side-by-side comparison done recently with two virtually identical Piets - one with a traditional Pietenpol airfoil, and one with a Riblett airfoil. PF Beck published the results here on the List, and also presented the results at Brodhead on the weekend. Essentially, the differences in performance between the two airfoils (when used on a Pietenpol wing) are negligible. The choice is up to the builder as to which airfoil to use, but performance-wise, very little difference should be expected. Huge thanks go out to PF Beck and Don Harper for doing this research. Here are links to the results: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t'005&highlight=riblett http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t'797&highlight=riblett Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405605#405605 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airfoils From: "nightmare" Corky; there are two different riblett ribs being built. The 612 and the 613.5. The one that Bill mentioned is the 612. The performance numbers look very close to that particular pietenpol wing. I say "that particular", because that wing used in comparison has vortex generators. Since the vg performance improvements are pretty well documented, I still give an ever so slight performance advantage to the riblett 612. The riblett 613.5 is actually the rib that Mr Riblett recommended for the piet. It is supposedly a higher lift design over the 612. The 612 is taller than the piet rib and the 613.5 is taller than the 612. Taller rib = taller spar= higher fuel capacity in center section tank and higher safety margin when stretching wingspan. Both ribletts have same chord and spar to spar distance as piet. All three will provide loads of fun to fly under. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405636#405636 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging From: Greg Bacon Hi Jack, Yes, I still have the Subaru installed. The A75 is still in the shop. And, I'd really like to fly the Subaru for a bit. If I like the Subaru, I'll use the A75 for another project. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > ** ** ** > > Greg,**** > > ** ** > > What engine do you have in it now? Is it still the Subaru?**** > > ** ** > > Jack Phillips**** > > NX899JP**** > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Bacon > *Sent:* Monday, July 29, 2013 2:47 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet update - wing rigging**** > > ** ** > > > **** > > Hello everyone,**** > > ** ** > > Attached is a recent photo of Mountain Piet. Currently, I'm in wing > rigging mode. I've decided to follow Mike Cuy's example, going with 1 inch > dihedral and 3/8 inch washout. Also, I like the look of a bit of dihedral. > **** > > ** ** > > Still a bunch to do, but could begin test flights in the Fall.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > -- > Greg Bacon**** > > ****Prairie Home**, **MO******** > > NX114D(Mountain Piet)**** > > ** ** > > * > > * > > -- Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO NX114D(Mountain Piet) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts From: Greg Bacon Thanks Gary and Jack for the help! Much appreciated. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > ** ** ** > > Greg,**** > > ** ** > > Castle nuts are preferred any where that rotation can be applied to the > joint (which should NOT be the case for the wing attach bolts). Nylon > stopnuts should be fine, but I prefer to use the MS21042 all metal lock > nuts, primarily because they are lighter and smaller than standard AN 310 > castle nuts, but still develop the same load. They were standard hardware > for all bolts on the F-16 program when I worked at General Dynamics many > years ago. Castle nuts are fine if you have room to install the cotter > pins.**** > > ** ** > > Jack Phillips**** > > NX899JP**** > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Bacon > *Sent:* Monday, July 29, 2013 2:58 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Wing attach bolts - locking vs castle nuts**** > > ** ** > > What kind of nut is recommended for the wing attach bolts? John Dilatush > used nylon locking nuts on his wing attach bolts. What is the rule of > thumb for using castle nuts vs lock nuts? My first thought was to use the > castle nut - cotter pins in areas that are not easily viewed and/or where > the nut would have a torque type force working on it.**** > > ** ** > > Thanks, > **** > > ** ** > > -- > Greg Bacon**** > > ****Prairie Home**, **MO******** > > NX114D(Mountain Piet)**** > > ** ** > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > > * > > -- Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO NX114D(Mountain Piet) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.