---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/08/13: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:08 AM - Speed (danhelsper@aol.com) 2. 04:10 AM - Speed (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 05:19 AM - Re: To LSA or not to LSA (AircamperN11MS) 4. 05:49 AM - Re: finger strainer problem (bdewenter) 5. 06:20 AM - pipe tape (Douwe Blumberg) 6. 06:31 AM - fuel component thread sealing compound (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 7. 06:38 AM - rotary torque (Douwe Blumberg) 8. 06:39 AM - Re: Speed (tools) 9. 06:58 AM - Re: pipe tape (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 10. 07:10 AM - Re: finger strainer problem (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 11. 07:11 AM - ford oil pressure (bender) 12. 08:36 AM - Re: pipe tape (Dick N) 13. 08:55 AM - Mario's Pietenpol (Dan Yocum) 14. 11:34 AM - Painting question (John Franklin) 15. 11:42 AM - Re: Painting question (Gary Boothe) 16. 11:52 AM - Re: Painting question (tools) 17. 12:04 PM - Re: Painting question (tools) 18. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: Painting question (Hans van der Voort) 19. 02:00 PM - leather flying helmet (Douwe Blumberg) 20. 02:52 PM - Re: Speed (Greg Cardinal) 21. 03:17 PM - Re: Speed (danhelsper@aol.com) 22. 03:18 PM - Re: Speed (Gary Boothe) 23. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Speed (danhelsper@aol.com) 24. 03:38 PM - Re: ford oil pressure (danhelsper@aol.com) 25. 04:44 PM - Re: Speed (tools) 26. 05:47 PM - Off Topic -- Ohio Flyers -- Help (dgaldrich) 27. 06:55 PM - Re: Off Topic -- Ohio Flyers -- Help (Jack Phillips) 28. 07:49 PM - How many engines? for CONTACT Magazine (John Fay) 29. 07:55 PM - Re: Speed (Clif Dawson) 30. 08:12 PM - Re: How many engines? for CONTACT Magazine (Greg Cardinal) 31. 08:53 PM - Re: Speed (taildrags) 32. 09:35 PM - Re: cables, wires, tubes, cords, instruments, etc (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speed From: danhelsper@aol.com after sitting through some airfoil forums at OSH I surmised that it just mi ght have something to do with the fact that I supported the aft edge-top of the wing LE ply so that it couldn't (didn't) sink-down with the fabric shr inking. What do y'all think? I can't believe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:38 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speed From: danhelsper@aol.com Sorry- messed up on that last one. What I was trying to say was that I can' t believe I can't raise some opinions on this. after sitting through some airfoil forums at OSH I surmised that it just mi ght have something to do with the fact that I supported the aft edge-top of the wing LE ply so that it couldn't (didn't) sink-down with the fabric shr inking. What do y'all think? Dan Helsper Pryear, TN ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To LSA or not to LSA From: "AircamperN11MS" Gardiner, You are correct. 1320 lbs. I always seem to make that mistake. Thanks for the catch. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406222#406222 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: finger strainer problem From: "bdewenter" Thanks everyone. Ill use a tap and the correct thread fluid for sealing all fuel fittings. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406224#406224 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:19 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: pipe tape Pipe tape is a big "no-no" in an aircraft fuel system. The reason is that carbs have been clogged by scraps of the stuff that was left dangling during installation. It is VERY common to find little bits in the gascolator on installations that use pipe tape, even when great care was taken. It has therefore become standard practice NOT to use it. I used a Vaseline-like grease that I purchased at Aircraft Spruce. Douwe ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:39 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel component thread sealing compound My Uncle Tony says no Teflon tape in fuel system plumbing but recommends th is "beeswax-like" substance and it works great. (as long as you don't get any in the ID of any fittings.) Mike C. [cid:image001.png@01CE941A.080F3D00] ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:28 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: rotary torque Hey Dan, Years ago, I delved into this subject when coming up with ways to replicate the performance of WWI type engines. While the Ford is much closer in performance to these older engines than modern aircraft engines, there are still some major differences which account for the Gnome's ability to spin that large paddle prop while the Ford struggles with your four-blader. First off, the 50hp Gnome is a 488 cubic inch capacity engine while your Ford is around 200... Secondly, it is producing all of it's torque at 1200, while yours needs to spin up closer to 2,000 to produce max torque. Since drag on these props increases exponentially, one can see how much more power would be required to spin that prop even a few hundred rpm more. With old engines, airplane guys always get confused with HP and torque, assuming that a modern 180 Lycoming can spin the same nine foot prop a 180 mercedes of almost 900 cubic inches did. IT can't, they are two different animals. It's like the old 35hp tractors which can pull three plows behind them while your 500hp mustang never could. I think it's a great experiment, but my guess is that you'll need to gradually thin those blades down until you can turn up a bit more. Good luck! Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speed From: "tools" As Piet folks, we really don't spend much time rigging our planes. Most Piets fly around with the elevator not in line with the stab in normal cruise flight. The Piet tail is not a lifting tail like a bleriot (spelling) or something. Even though the elevator is deflected down in level stable flight, the tail is holding the nose up. What that would indicate is that the stab should be trimmed out to eliminate that extra drag. Struts and washout should be trimmed for fastest cruise. Incidence should be trimmed for minimal drag... When I rebuilt my Piet, which included making new wing struts, I'm sure the plane was rigged differently than before. However, it felt the same so I let it go at that. However, it was faster than before, I attributed it to finally being comfortable enough in the plane, and by myself (before always instructing my son) to realize it went faster with the ball 3/4 out to the right, meaning the plane wasn't rigged right, the ball indicator wasn't rigged right, or the new struts just happened to rig the wing in a way that was faster. While airfoils obviously make a difference, in our performance zone, I'm thinking stuff like I mentioned is simply more likely than the trailing edge difference. Larry Williams thought maybe his leading edge half ribs slowed his plane down significantly... who knows?! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406228#406228 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:11 AM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pipe tape Thanks for the explanation. very helpful. I know the product you refer to, Wicks carries it also. Dennis From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 8:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pipe tape Pipe tape is a big =9Cno-no=9D in an aircraft fuel system. The reason is that carbs have been clogged by scraps of the stuff that was left dangling during installation. It is VERY common to find little bits in the gascolator on installations that use pipe tape, even when great care was taken. It has therefore become standard practice NOT to use it. I used a Vaseline-like grease that I purchased at Aircraft Spruce. Douwe ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:10 AM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: finger strainer problem Thanks for the update on the pipe tape. I=99ll get the right stuff from Wicks, they sell it also and they are a half hour from me. Dennis From: Steve Ruse Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:32 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: finger strainer problem A tiny piece of pipe tape could clog the tiny fuel passages in the carburetor. This makes the engine quiet, and we all know noisy planes are the most fun. Spruce sells a product called "fuel lube" made for this purpose. It helps seal the threads, and also acts as an anti seize. Use sparingly. Steve Ruse Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote: Why not use pipe tape? Not questioning you, just want to know. Dennis From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 8:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: finger strainer problem Hey Bob, I remember a similar problem getting my strainer(s) to screw nicely into the aluminum weld-on fitting. Assuming you have the matching sizes I forced one, NOT the way to go because the brass just rethreads the aluminum making it worthless when you need to remove it. I bought the correct size national pipe thread tap and lightly cleaned out the aluminum bushing threads. I also needed to do this because the finger strainer didn=99t want to go far enough in. It stuck out way too much and was ugly. Also, ck the brass threads for nicks and dings which could be making things harder. Ck for proper size first though. Remember NOT to use pipe tape. Douwe href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=03g(=EF=BD=EF =BD=EF=BDM=EF=BDGq=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:23 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: ford oil pressure From: "bender" Ok... got my engine back together and ran it yesterday. I modified the oil pump per a ford Nov1932 service bulletin to increase the oil flow and machined the housing and gears to increase pressure a bit per billsbangers.com To my surprise, after running it I saw a steady 2lbs of pressure. I plugged the line going from the pump galley to the front of the pan...red arrow below.... and that gives me 5-6 lbs.. I know the increase in flow is big.. and its feeding the bearings for sure cause I now have a front main leak.. but i'm wondering how important the line, red arrow, from the pump to the dipper tray really is... could it be restricted a bit or go away. the other line from the valve galley is feeding the tray and all the oil from the mains hits the tray too. The line from the pump to the tray is just a big "leak" on the pressure feeding the mains. about to pull the pan to fix the main seal jeff faith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406232#406232 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/oilpipe1_775.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:14 AM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pipe tape Douwe That grease is called Fuel Lube. Some mechanics love ane some hate it, I really like it for gaskets and threads. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 8:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pipe tape Pipe tape is a big "no-no" in an aircraft fuel system. The reason is that carbs have been clogged by scraps of the stuff that was left dangling during installation. It is VERY common to find little bits in the gascolator on installations that use pipe tape, even when great care was taken. It has therefore become standard practice NOT to use it. I used a Vaseline-like grease that I purchased at Aircraft Spruce. Douwe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:08 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mario's Pietenpol Mario's doing great work on his Piet. Fuse is done and engine is mounted, wings are covered and primed - you should check it out, here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/105721238882545681618/posts Enjoy, Dan ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:43 AM PST US From: John Franklin Subject: Pietenpol-List: Painting question I have a run-of-the-mill air compressor with a regulator/oil separator and an additional water separator, all bought from the big-box home improvement stores. Is that enough filtration to spray paint with either latex or aircraft dope? I've heard that any oil that gets into the paint is really bad news. Thanks, John Franklin Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Painting question From: Gary Boothe John, I suggest a small inline filter just before the gun. They are inexpensive, and offer a last chance filter. Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:34 AM, John Franklin wrote: > > I have a run-of-the-mill air compressor with a regulator/oil separator and an additional water separator, all bought from the big-box home improvement stores. Is that enough filtration to spray paint with either latex or aircraft dope? I've heard that any oil that gets into the paint is really bad news. > > Thanks, > John Franklin > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > Needville, TX > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Painting question From: "tools" In TX, your biggest enemy is going to be humidity. The best way to get rid of that is to run the air through a copper coil in a bucket of cold water, then a regular water separator, then a small inline dessicant filter right by the gun. If you don't have that readily available, even all the air hose you have in a bucket of cold water. The goal is to condense the water vapor to particles, which the filter can eliminate. The little dissicant filter (a small little thing with a particulate filter and dessicant, you know when it saturates by a change in color). Most compressors aren't blowing out a lot of oil. If you use hoses that have been used on a system with an oil mister, that's a different story. But the little dessicant filter should get the little that might make it through. I've never noticed any. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406248#406248 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Painting question From: "tools" Here's the inline dessicant filter: http://www.harborfreight.com/inline-desiccant-dryerfilter-68215.html It's important to use a "pre filter" with the bucket of cold water and water particle separator because I've trashed one of these in a flat two minutes without it! I now use a large dessicant filter, about the size of the water particle separators. You can remove the dessicant and dry it out in an oven. It was about 80 bucks ten years ago, not sure what they run now. Here's the regular filter: http://www.harborfreight.com/12-standard-air-filter-68279.html If you can cool the air before it enters, you can literally see it fill with water as you use your air compressor. For MAXIMUM effect, route your air directly from the compressor pump, through some sort of cooler (on my GMC motorhome's air suspension system, this is a 5' length of 1/4 copper line snaked around the pump itself, and is cooled by the pump fan), this filter, THEN your tank. That will keep the majority of water out of your tank, extending its life significantly. I don't know why compressors aren't just built this way... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406249#406249 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:03 PM PST US From: Hans van der Voort Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Painting question John,=0A-=0AI agree with the below comment but would add, do not paint on days with more than 70% humidity the lower the better.It reduces water con tent in the airline but more importantly most paints dry better, with more gloss in lower humidity.=0A-=0AWe do have-low humidity days-in the Ho uston area, a good website to check local humidity is- http://www.weather underground.com/=0A-=0ABesides the above-I use a two 50 ft. hoses with a extra water separator in between. =0AAnd prefer to use HVLP Spray guns, l ess overspray, less dust =0A-=0AHans=0A-=0A-=0A =0A=0A_______________ _________________=0A From: tools =0ATo: pietenpol-list@mat ronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 1:52 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-L "tools" =0A=0AIn TX, your biggest enemy is going to be hum idity.- =0A=0AThe best way to get rid of that is to run the air through a copper coil in a bucket of cold water, then a regular water separator, the n a small inline dessicant filter right by the gun.- =0A=0AIf you don't h ave that readily available, even all the air hose you have in a bucket of c old water.- The goal is to condense the water vapor to particles, which t he filter can eliminate.- The little dissicant filter (a small little thi ng with a particulate filter and dessicant, you know when it saturates by a change in color).- Most compressors aren't blowing out a lot of oil.- If you use hoses that have been used on a system with an oil mister, that's a different story.- But the little dessicant filter should get the littl e that might make it through.- I've never noticed any.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p =========================0A - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:08 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: leather flying helmet FYI, I just received the flying helmet from Sportsman's Guide and it looks very nice. The leather is very soft and the quality seems good. I wear only a 7" hatsize and they accidently shipped me an XL and it fits perfectly. Douwe ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:24 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speed Dan, I think we are all contemplating this. Did you scallop the aft edge of this plywood or do you have a spanwise ridge on the upper suface of your wing where the fabric transitions from being supported by the plywood to being unsupported? Does your airplane stall gently or sharply? I have always been under the impression that the aft edge of LE plywood should be unsupported between the ribs to allow for a smooth airflow transition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: danhelsper@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 6:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speed Sorry- messed up on that last one. What I was trying to say was that I can't believe I can't raise some opinions on this. after sitting through some airfoil forums at OSH I surmised that it just might have something to do with the fact that I supported the aft edge-top of the wing LE ply so that it couldn't (didn't) sink-down with the fabric shrinking. What do y'all think? Dan Helsper Pryear, TN ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speed From: danhelsper@aol.com Greg, No scallops. Just a straight cut (spanwise ridge). The plywood goes back to the aft edge of the spar. I would describe the stalls as gentle. I have no idea why my ship would be any faster than others. It has all the draggy st uff the others do. The only other thing I can point to might be my aileron piano hinges. These are somewhat unique, in that they are mounted flat on t op of the wing (and aileron), upside down, and I actually recessed the wood where they are screwed in, so that the top plane of the wing is not upset by the thickness of the hinge or the bump where the wire goes. I can't imag ine it can make that much difference. I had this wing all complete like that before I heard others say to do it t he other way. I was kicking myself because it looks better the way most hav e done it, and I was admittedly worried about that ridge acting like a spoi ler. Its not much but it is there. Maybe its the 1/16" wire I used to brace the tail (like the Last Original). :O) Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Greg Cardinal Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:53 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speed Dan, I think we are all contemplating this. Did you scallop the aft edge of this plywood or do you have a spanwise ridge on the upper suface of your w ing where the fabric transitions from being supported by the plywood to bei ng unsupported? Does your airplane stall gently or sharply? I have always been under the impression that the aft edge of LE plywood sho uld be unsupported between the ribs to allow for a smooth airflow transitio n. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: danhelsper@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 6:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speed Sorry- messed up on that last one. What I was trying to say was that I ca n't believe I can't raise some opinions on this. after sitting through some airfoil forums at OSH I surmised that it just might have something to do with the fact that I supported the aft edge-to p of the wing LE ply so that it couldn't (didn't) sink-down with the fabr ic shrinking. What do y'all think? Dan Helsper Pryear, TN href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:18 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Speed My understanding is same as Greg's. Dan, I think your obvious speed advantage is coming from those Fancy Dan wheel covers!! Seriously, though, you may have hit upon the best prop pitch/dia/profile.if you are happy with its climb. Prop #2 for me was definitely a cruise prop, causing me to throttle way back to keep it under 90! At that speed, "I didn't like it much!" But it had a very poor climb rate. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Cardinal Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speed Dan, I think we are all contemplating this. Did you scallop the aft edge of this plywood or do you have a spanwise ridge on the upper suface of your wing where the fabric transitions from being supported by the plywood to being unsupported? Does your airplane stall gently or sharply? I have always been under the impression that the aft edge of LE plywood should be unsupported between the ribs to allow for a smooth airflow transition. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: danhelsper@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 6:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speed Sorry- messed up on that last one. What I was trying to say was that I can't believe I can't raise some opinions on this. after sitting through some airfoil forums at OSH I surmised that it just might have something to do with the fact that I supported the aft edge-top of the wing LE ply so that it couldn't (didn't) sink-down with the fabric shrinking. What do y'all think? Dan Helsper Pryear, TN href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speed From: danhelsper@aol.com When Larry and I flew over to Brodhead together a couple of years ago I had to do S-turns for him to catch up. As I say, I don't know why. He says his is the world's slowest Pietenpol, and has tried other cylinder heads and p rops trying to get it to go faster, to no avail. Tools, you may be correct that my rigging just happens to be as good as it can be. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: tools Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2013 3:53 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speed As Piet folks, we really don't spend much time rigging our planes. Most Pi ets fly around with the elevator not in line with the stab in normal cruise fli ght. The Piet tail is not a lifting tail like a bleriot (spelling) or something. Even though the elevator is deflected down in level stable flight, the tail is holding the nose up. What that would indicate is that the stab should be trimmed out to eliminate that extra drag. Struts and washout should be trimmed for fastest cruise. Incidence should be trimmed for minimal drag... When I rebuilt my Piet, which included making new wing struts, I'm sure the plane was rigged differently than before. However, it felt the same so I l et it go at that. However, it was faster than before, I attributed it to finally being comfortable enough in the plane, and by myself (before always instruc ting my son) to realize it went faster with the ball 3/4 out to the right, meani ng the plane wasn't rigged right, the ball indicator wasn't rigged right, or t he new struts just happened to rig the wing in a way that was faster. While airfoils obviously make a difference, in our performance zone, I'm thinking stuff like I mentioned is simply more likely than the trailing edg e difference. Larry Williams thought maybe his leading edge half ribs slowed his plane do wn significantly... who knows?! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406228#406228 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ford oil pressure From: danhelsper@aol.com Jeff, Can't answer your question because of limited knowledge. It sounds like you may be on to something. Can you share your conclusions for the piston scraping problems? I would su re like to hear your thoughts on that subject now that you have done the re build. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: bender Sent: Thu, Aug 8, 2013 3:50 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: ford oil pressure > Ok... got my engine back together and ran it yesterday. I modified the oil pump per a ford Nov1932 service bulletin to increase the oil flow and machined the housing and gears to increase pressure a bit per billsbangers.com To my surprise, after running it I saw a steady 2lbs of pressure. I plugged the line going from the pump galley to the front of the pan...re d arrow below.... and that gives me 5-6 lbs.. I know the increase in flow is big.. and its feeding the bearings for sure cause I now have a front main leak.. but i'm wondering how important the line, red arrow, from the pump to the dippe r tray really is... could it be restricted a bit or go away. the other line f rom the valve galley is feeding the tray and all the oil from the mains hits th e tray too. The line from the pump to the tray is just a big "leak" on the pressure feeding the mains. about to pull the pan to fix the main seal jeff faith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406232#406232 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/oilpipe1_775.jpg ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speed From: "tools" I'm not sure how to do it, perhaps just really good photography, but a close observation of the attitude of the top longeron of the fuse between your two Piets while in very stable level flight should reveal the relative condition of the rigging. Maybe just a good level, perhaps an iPhone's app would work, dunno. But a lot of extra fuselage hanging out in the breeze is HUGE. When I ferried 2RN home, after taking off one very smooth morning, I found myself settling back down towards the trees! I was panic stricken as I cycled the carb heat, double checked the airspeed, etc. I finally realized the ball was WAAAAY out to one side (remember, this was my 5th Piet flight! My 8th light civil flight since high school...), I centered it and climbed normally (still not good, had a very cruisey prop). I was shocked at how performance limiting that slip was. Just a few degrees of yaw or a non level fuse (relative to relative wind) would make a very noticeable difference. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406268#406268 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off Topic -- Ohio Flyers -- Help From: "dgaldrich" So here's the deal. I'm ferrying a Dakota Hawk (wood, plans built, tail wheel, no transponder, sound familiar?) from outside Milwaukee to Maine. The route from the PA border up to Maine is pretty straight forward but I need some suggestions on coping with Chicago and Cleveland air space. Did I mention NO transponder? Those of you who fly from mid-Ohio to Brodhead have a preferred route south of the ORD Class B and I can't remember what it is. Also, is there an easy way past CLE at intermediate VFR altitudes? Thanks All Dave Aldrich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406271#406271 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:37 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Off Topic -- Ohio Flyers -- Help Dave, You didn't mention whether or not you will have a GPS. Assuming you do, here is the route that I would program in to get you around Chicago: I fly from Brodhead to Poplar Grove, Illinois (C77), then go to Swett intersection (which should keep you clear of Aurora's Class D airspace) then to Joliet (KJOT) After you get to Joliet, you should be clear of Chicago. Maybe Mike Cuy can chime in with advice for avoiding CLE airspace. Jack Phillips NX899JP (which is still in Brodhead - I need to get back up there and fly it back home) Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dgaldrich Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 8:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off Topic -- Ohio Flyers -- Help So here's the deal. I'm ferrying a Dakota Hawk (wood, plans built, tail wheel, no transponder, sound familiar?) from outside Milwaukee to Maine. The route from the PA border up to Maine is pretty straight forward but I need some suggestions on coping with Chicago and Cleveland air space. Did I mention NO transponder? Those of you who fly from mid-Ohio to Brodhead have a preferred route south of the ORD Class B and I can't remember what it is. Also, is there an easy way past CLE at intermediate VFR altitudes? Thanks All Dave Aldrich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406271#406271 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: How many engines? for CONTACT Magazine From: John Fay To those more knowledgeable on this list: I suspect that more engines have been used to power the Pietenpol that any other plane in history. This might be a good topic for an article for the all-Piet issue of CONTACT magazine. I am very curious how many have been used successfully. Here is the list of the ones I can name off the top of my head. Please add to the list any others you know of, or redefine any that I have misnamed or are incorrect. Continental A-65 A-75 C-85 C-90 O-200 Twin 65 hp Lycoming 65 hp O-235 Ford Model A Model B Flat head V-8 Escort engine Funk variation of the Model A Warner radial (Which one I do not know) Velie radial Rotec radial Lambert radial Buick V-8 Corvair Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago of two Piets in New Zealand who were powered by Toyotas) Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc Mitsubishi (soon to be) (Was there a Continental 50 hp, a Volkswagen, a Lycoming 125 hp GPU, or a Kinner?) John Fay in Peoria ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:42 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speed Might be you've discovered a new vortex generating system. Better get it patented, quick! Clif Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious. -Brendan Gill Dan, I think we are all contemplating this. I have always been under the impression that the aft edge of LE plywood should be unsupported between the ribs to allow for a smooth airflow transition. Greg ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:46 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many engines? for CONTACT Magazine There was also a Vega powered Piet and don't forget Mountain Piet with the turbo Subaru. There is one being built in Minneapolis in which a Honda V-6 is being planned. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Fay" Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 9:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: How many engines? for CONTACT Magazine > > To those more knowledgeable on this list: > > I suspect that more engines have been used to power the Pietenpol that > any other plane in history. This might be a good topic for an article > for the all-Piet issue of CONTACT magazine. I am very curious how > many have been used successfully. > Here is the list of the ones I can name off the top of my head. > Please add to the list any others you know of, or redefine any that I > have misnamed or are incorrect. > > Continental A-65 > A-75 > C-85 > C-90 > O-200 > Twin 65 hp > > Lycoming 65 hp > O-235 > > Ford Model A > Model B > Flat head V-8 > Escort engine > > Funk variation of the Model A > > Warner radial (Which one I do not know) > > Velie radial > Rotec radial > Lambert radial > > Buick V-8 > Corvair > Toyota (I don't remember which one, but there was a pic a few months ago > of > two Piets in New Zealand who were powered by Toyotas) > > Geo/Suzuki 2300 cc > > Mitsubishi (soon to be) > > (Was there a Continental 50 hp, a Volkswagen, a Lycoming 125 hp GPU, > or a Kinner?) > > > John Fay > in Peoria > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speed From: "taildrags" I completely agree with tools. Rigging the airplane and the control surfaces, as well as setting the engine thrustline properly, has made a very noticeable difference in the way Scout flies and handles. It absolutely, positively has to make a difference in drag when all the control surfaces are aligned and the engine thrust is being applied most effectively. Your airplane must be exceptionally well squared and true. Think about the four primary forces acting on the airplane: thrust, drag, lift, and gravity. Among the hundreds of different Piets out there, several of these factors are going to be quite close to one another, so it comes down to small variations. Given a Piet with a Ford engine and radiator, landing gear, and empty weight similar to yours- how many things can be different? With the same empty weight (or gross weight), gravity is the same. With the same airfoil and span, washout, and dihedral- lift will be the same. With similar engine and prop, thrust will be the same. And with rigging, landing gear, cowlings, windscreens and general finish being similar, drag will be the same. So now you have to start looking at the small nuances. People have made it their life's work to optimize aircraft performance by small but careful detailing. Roy LoPresti, Klaus Sauvier, Mike Arnold, and others have done this. Apparently you've done it as well, since I doubt that you carry a leather pouch of pixie dust that you reach into for a pinch to sprinkle on your airplane before each flight. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406279#406279 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables, wires, tubes, cords, instruments, etc From: "taildrags" Mario: your question is too general. Are you asking about electrical wiring, mechanical connections such as throttle and tachometer, or maybe just about how to pass through the firewall? Do you have an electrical system (battery, alternator, starter, etc.)? If not, that makes it much simpler. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406282#406282 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.