---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/15/13: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:02 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Michael Perez) 2. 04:05 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 05:32 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Michael Perez) 4. 06:02 AM - New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 (Gary Boothe) 5. 06:19 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (tools) 6. 07:10 AM - Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 (Bill Church) 7. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Gary Boothe) 8. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Dan Yocum) 9. 07:31 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (tools) 10. 07:35 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (AircamperN11MS) 11. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Dan Yocum) 12. 08:07 AM - simple prop balancer and tracking (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 13. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Michael Perez) 14. 08:26 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Larry Vetter) 15. 08:27 AM - Re: simple prop balancer and tracking (Michael Perez) 16. 08:30 AM - step forward (Ken Bickers) 17. 09:11 AM - Re: step forward (taildrags) 18. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: step forward (Ken Bickers) 19. 09:24 AM - center flop hinges (taildrags) 20. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Gary Boothe) 21. 09:35 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (taildrags) 22. 09:42 AM - Re: step forward (Rick Holland) 23. 09:49 AM - Re: step forward (Gary Boothe) 24. 09:51 AM - Re: step forward (Ken Bickers) 25. 09:52 AM - Re: step forward (Ken Bickers) 26. 10:23 AM - Re: step forward (Jack) 27. 10:41 AM - Re: step forward (Ken Bickers) 28. 11:20 AM - Re: simple prop balancer and tracking (Mario Giacummo) 29. 11:32 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (AircamperN11MS) 30. 11:34 AM - Re: leather flying helmet (biplan53) 31. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Jack) 32. 11:44 AM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (AircamperN11MS) 33. 12:12 PM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Gary Boothe) 34. 12:18 PM - Re: simple prop balancer and tracking (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 35. 12:18 PM - Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (John Francis) 36. 12:28 PM - Scott's method for prop balancing. (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 37. 12:43 PM - Re: Dynamic balancing ? (tools) 38. 01:01 PM - Re: Scott's method for prop balancing. (AircamperN11MS) 39. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: Dynamic balancing ? (Gary Boothe) 40. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (Ryan Mueller) 41. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (Rick Holland) 42. 03:30 PM - Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 (taildrags) 43. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 (Gary Boothe) 44. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 (danhelsper@aol.com) 45. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (Lion Mason) 46. 05:31 PM - Re: simple prop balancer and tracking (danhelsper@aol.com) 47. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (Jack) 48. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (Gary Boothe) 49. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (Jack) 50. 06:35 PM - Re: Pietenpol T-shirts from Brodhead 2013 (Bill Weeden) 51. 06:35 PM - Re: simple prop balancer and tracking (Jack) 52. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (Gary Boothe) 53. 08:28 PM - Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (kevinpurtee) 54. 08:52 PM - Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:45 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? My problem is fabricating the taper to simulate the crank taper. I'll eithe r make my own measurements from my crank and give it a try, or just focus o n a simple straight setup as most do but include crush plate, bolts, etc. =0A=0AI have no issue making duplicates of anything, or passing the items I do have around for others.- I often considered machining/fabricating par ts for others. All in due time...=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dynamic balancing ? From: danhelsper@aol.com Larry, Here is my new prop balance gizmo. Temporary steel prop plate with a tiny h ole drilled in the center, 1/4" steel rod ground to a point, point of rod p laced up though prop center hole and into drilled hole in plate. Place a sm all bubble level in the center. Once that bubble is in the center all must be right, right? I rebalanced my curvy prop with this also and discovered I needed to add some lead to one side. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Larry Vetter Sent: Wed, Aug 14, 2013 3:36 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dynamic balancing ? Its been suggested by the previous owner that both wooden props I have be dynamically balanced. Both were carved by a prop carving machine. I haven't researched dynamic balancing, but have heard it was rather expensive. Have any of you using a hand carved or machine carved prop had one dynami cally balanced? Doesn't it require balancing the prop to the engine? Thanks for any input. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406697#406697 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:31 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? As much as I like to design/machine things from scratch, I've decided to ke ep things simple.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKar etaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:23 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 This one from an Irish Piet builder, who happened to catch Dan Helsper's Piet and Dan Yocum's Piet in the background. Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "tools" Mike, have you considered a donor crank? That would get you off to a good start., Dan, two things. You are generally correct IF the tiny hole is EXACTLY in the middle. Exactly like determined to within a couple thousanths of an inch, not necessarily by hand with a ruler kind of thing. Within a couple thou isn't very difficult in a machine shop environment. A couple tenths, a different matter... but not necessary. Second, that isn't a very precise bubble for the level of accuracy desired. I don't know if GOOD bubbles are available in that configuration... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406753#406753 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 From: "Bill Church" You can tell that the photo wasn't from 2013, because nobody is wearing a parka. BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406755#406755 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:08 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? Tools, Are you kidding? You are aware, aren't you, that Dan is talking about 'hand carved' props. Seems to me he is taking balancing to a whole new level - pun intended. You should try making one, some time. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? Mike, have you considered a donor crank? That would get you off to a good start., Dan, two things. You are generally correct IF the tiny hole is EXACTLY in the middle. Exactly like determined to within a couple thousanths of an inch, not necessarily by hand with a ruler kind of thing. Within a couple thou isn't very difficult in a machine shop environment. A couple tenths, a different matter... but not necessary. Second, that isn't a very precise bubble for the level of accuracy desired. I don't know if GOOD bubbles are available in that configuration... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406753#406753 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:00 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? +1 Make that +2 since I know you're well versed in making your own hand carved props, Gary, having made 2 or 3 yourself. -- Dan Yocum yocum137@gmail.com On Aug 15, 2013, at 9:11 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > Tools, > > Are you kidding? You are aware, aren't you, that Dan is talking about 'hand > carved' props. Seems to me he is taking balancing to a whole new level - pun > intended. You should try making one, some time. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:19 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? > > > Mike, have you considered a donor crank? That would get you off to a good > start., > > Dan, two things. You are generally correct IF the tiny hole is EXACTLY in > the middle. Exactly like determined to within a couple thousanths of an > inch, not necessarily by hand with a ruler kind of thing. Within a couple > thou isn't very difficult in a machine shop environment. A couple tenths, a > different matter... but not necessary. > > Second, that isn't a very precise bubble for the level of accuracy desired. > I don't know if GOOD bubbles are available in that configuration... > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406753#406753 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "tools" Usually props are put on dummy hub and balanced on balancing ways. That's how they were balanced in the 30's, when they were ALL hand carved. Still, balance is balance, if you want a prop to run smoothly, it has to be balanced. The hub placed level requires EXTREME precision as there is very little movement for a significant change in balance. A good and simple system, but to be as effective as a balancing way system, that little vial has to be pretty decently manufactured. The balancing way system requires a more accurate hub. As with everything in life, it's always something... So, no, I'm not kidding. I will build a prop, not sure what that has to do with how to balance something effectively. What did I miss there? I have machined multi bolt hole patterns concentric with a precision hub for vertical head adapters for milling machines, the functional equivalent of a prop hub... does that count? I have also carved and balanced wood systems, large flat belt pulleys for line shaft driven machines... Not sure what part of the system I apparently don't have any knowledge about to apply the subject matter information to. Perhaps you do and can add to the discussion? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406758#406758 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "AircamperN11MS" I have been flying a wood prop for over 40 years and have never done a dynamic balance on one. I would not waste the time or money doing it. A static balance like shown in the Pics is just fine. The reason I say what I do is rather simple. The moisture in the prop moves from one blade to the other and is always on the move. The best thing we can do to prevent this from occurring is to park the prop in the horizontal position after shut down. I do this every time. If you park the prop with one of the blades down, the moisture will flow to the lower blade defeating the whole dynamic balance you paid good money for. You should check the static balance each time you put a new coat of finish on it or even touch up the black paint on the back. Rather simple and easy. My three cents, Now lets go flying. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406759#406759 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:07 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > My three cents, Now lets go flying. Hear, hear! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:20 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more than w elcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used with a vise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened. I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2 d ays, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, if n ot moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown s hopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will resul t in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great. Mike C. (I'll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you) [cid:image001.jpg@01CE99A7.7FACEAF0] [cid:image002.jpg@01CE99A7.7FACEAF0] -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? yocum137@gmail.com>> On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > My three cents, Now lets go flying. Hear, hear! ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:01 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? I for one, appreciate Tools' insight and knowledge on balancing in general and his position on being very precise.- I like the approach of being as accurate as possible when doing this type of propeller balancing.- We do what we can with what we have.=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Vi deos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "Larry Vetter" Thanks guys for all the replies so far. Dan, I don't know for sure if he even balanced the props, but will check with the previous owner. I will most likely check them anyway. I also don't know what pitch they are, he didn't say and its not marked on the prop anywhere that I have found. Thank you all again. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406763#406763 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:03 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking I'm with you Mike. As we discussed, I'll take what you have. However, betwe en now and Monday, I may make up my own set of tapered plugs and balance sh aft, (machined aluminum) and support fixture for the prop.- If I do, it w ould be neat to compare each balance system to one another.=0A=0AOh and don 't forget the templates.=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: step forward From: Ken Bickers Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for the very first time. Lots of steps still to go. Cheers, Ken ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: step forward From: "taildrags" Ken; shouldn't the head be on top? And where's the water pump and coolant hoses? ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406767#406767 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: step forward From: Ken Bickers Oscar, Okay, my apologies. Here's the head on top. I'll have to figure out where to hang those other gizmos you mention. Maybe Uncle Tony has some ideas for those :o) Ken On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:11 AM, taildrags wrote: > > Ken; shouldn't the head be on top? And where's the water pump and coolant > hoses? ;o) > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406767#406767 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: center flop hinges From: "taildrags" Earlier, I posted that I was reworking the hinge on my centersection flop. Since there has been discussion about piano hinges and mounting them (ailerons), I'll mention the reason why I'm redoing the hinge on the flop. The hinge is presently aluminum and the mounting holes were countersunk to receive flat-head screws, leaving everything flush. The result of countersinking the holes was that the aluminum got quite thin and the holes got very close to the edges of the hinge. When the flop is flopped and care is not taken, or if a breeze catches it in the flopped position, it can bounce and really put a strain on the edges of the holes. Several of the screws in my hinge had pulled through the metal because of this. I am replacing the aluminum hinge with a stainless steel one (from McMaster Carr) and re-mounting it with standard truss head AN526 machine screws into the nutplates. As several others have noted, there is no need for the screw heads to be countersunk if the screws are staggered on the two sides of the hinge such that they don't directly oppose one another... the hinge will not close tightly enough to require that the screw heads be flush. I don't know if anyone else has experienced pull-through on their flop hinges, but I have and I hope the steel hinge and no countersinking will cure that. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406769#406769 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:53 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? There is nothing exact about hand carving a prop. Without going into detail, once the two blades are carved, on can only hope that they are very close to each other in thrust. There are an infinite number of ways to be off. To focus on thousands of an inch is a waste of time. After all the careful work, the only thing that counts is how well the prop performs. That applies to both hand carved and machine carved props, as various prop makers have different ways of measuring pitch. The reason for my comment was two-fold: 1) Real World: Most hand-carved prop makers have not had, and do not have precision machine equipment. Center hole is drilled on a drill press, which, at the best, will be squared and leveled with a t-square and/or a bubble level. 2) Two bladed hand carved props are difficult enough, and have always been balanced by eye. On a 1-10 scale of difficulty, Dan's 4-bladed prop is a....15! The very fact that he figured out how to get all of that through a band saw is incredible! The fact that it balances at all is a monumental success! Yet you choose to focus on the type of bubble level he used...therefore, my remark, "Are you kidding?" Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 7:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? Usually props are put on dummy hub and balanced on balancing ways. That's how they were balanced in the 30's, when they were ALL hand carved. Still, balance is balance, if you want a prop to run smoothly, it has to be balanced. The hub placed level requires EXTREME precision as there is very little movement for a significant change in balance. A good and simple system, but to be as effective as a balancing way system, that little vial has to be pretty decently manufactured. The balancing way system requires a more accurate hub. As with everything in life, it's always something... So, no, I'm not kidding. I will build a prop, not sure what that has to do with how to balance something effectively. What did I miss there? I have machined multi bolt hole patterns concentric with a precision hub for vertical head adapters for milling machines, the functional equivalent of a prop hub... does that count? I have also carved and balanced wood systems, large flat belt pulleys for line shaft driven machines... Not sure what part of the system I apparently don't have any knowledge about to apply the subject matter information to. Perhaps you do and can add to the discussion? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406758#406758 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "taildrags" After correcting the prop tracking and re-torqueing the prop bolts on Scout's wooden prop, I performed a dynamic balance using the DynaVibe instrument and procedure. Scout's prop balancing was written up in the current issue of Contact! Magazine, but that is irrelevant to my post. I agree with the "just do your best and go fly" when it comes to these airplanes, but being an engineer and having the instrument available to me, I just had to do it anyway. In order to get the engine/prop in better dynamic balance, I ended up fabricating a fairly considerable steel plate that is mounted under two of the prop bolts. My engine is an A75 with the flanged prop hub, not the tapered shaft. I called it good enough when I got the dynamic acceleration down to about 0.1 ips. With that said, I will also mention that I have since moved the airplane from hot and humid south Texas to milder and drier southern Oregon, so I have no expectation of the propeller tracking or bolt torque still being good, and I also have no expectation that the dynamic balance will be the same as it was when I made the adjustments. However, I do expect the out-of-balance to be minor once I deal with the prop tracking and bolt torques. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406773#406773 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step forward From: Rick Holland Good work Ken. I can come up there and provide moral support on your first startup, it was great having Mr. Markle around for mine. rick h On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for > the very first time. Lots of steps still to go. > > Cheers, Ken > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:11 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: step forward Nice, Ken! I'm assuming you have weight in the tail. I lived in perpetual fear that the weight would somehow slip out and the whole thing would nose over.. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Bickers Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: step forward Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for the very first time. Lots of steps still to go. Cheers, Ken ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step forward From: Ken Bickers Rick, thanks. I'll take you up on that offer. I still have a fair amount of work to go before the first run. I've just about finished fabricating the intake pipes. I think that only leaves exhaust, electricals, ignition, fuel, controls, baffling, cowlings ... Oh yeah, and prop balancing. Cheers, Ken On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Rick Holland wrote: > Good work Ken. I can come up there and provide moral support on your first > startup, it was great having Mr. Markle around for mine. > > rick h > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > >> Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for >> the very first time. Lots of steps still to go. >> >> Cheers, Ken >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step forward From: Ken Bickers Gary, yep. Two FAA certified 40 pound dumbbells, each attached separately. Ken On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > Rick, thanks. I'll take you up on that offer. I still have a fair amount > of work to go before the first run. I've just about finished fabricating > the intake pipes. I think that only leaves exhaust, electricals, ignition, > fuel, controls, baffling, cowlings ... Oh yeah, and prop balancing. > Cheers, Ken > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Rick Holland wrote: > >> Good work Ken. I can come up there and provide moral support on your >> first startup, it was great having Mr. Markle around for mine. >> >> rick h >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: >> >>> Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for >>> the very first time. Lots of steps still to go. >>> >>> Cheers, Ken >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle Rock, Colorado >> NX6819Z >> >> >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step forward From: Jack What not to love, your ship and a loving dog...looks good ken, can't wait to get there. Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for the very first time. Lots of steps still to go. > > Cheers, Ken > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step forward From: Ken Bickers He's a hard working dog. Just look at how exhausted he is. But every single day, he's anxious to return the hangar to work on the Piet. I'm sure the jerky that I keep for him in the frig has little to do with it. On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Jack wrote: > > What not to love, your ship and a loving dog...looks good ken, can't wait > to get there. > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Ken Bickers wrote: > > > Another step forward. Tuesday, I mounted the motor on the fuselage for > the very first time. Lots of steps still to go. > > > > Cheers, Ken > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:23 AM PST US From: Mario Giacummo Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking Another one.. the same perhaps? http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html Mario Giacummo 2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] < michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> > Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more > than welcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used > with a vise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened. **** > > ** ** > > I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2 > days, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, i f > not moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking**** > > the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown > shopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will > result in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle**** > > Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great. **** > > ** ** > > Mike C.**** > > ** ** > > (I=92ll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you) **** > > ** ** > > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > **** > > ** ** > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? > > ** ** > > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:**** > > ** ** > > > My three cents, Now lets go flying.**** > > ** ** > > Hear, hear!**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > ====================**** bsp; - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -**** nd > much much more:**** tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List**** ====== ============= > **** bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -**** eb Forums!**** .matronics.co m > ">http://forums.matronics.com**** ============= =======**** bsp; - > List Contribution Web Site -**** o:p>** bsp; -Matt > Dralle, List Admin.**** tronics.com/contribution"> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution**** ========== ==========**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "AircamperN11MS" Here is another way to build your own static balance tool. I have not built one myself but had seen it printed somewhere and drew this up quickly from memory. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. Please don't take me wrong on my last post. dynamic balancing is good and I think it has its place with metal and constant speed props but I really don't think we need it on our Piets. They are simple machines. Attached is the rough drawing I made. Has anyone ever used this method before? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406787#406787 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130815095521067_571.pdf ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leather flying helmet From: "biplan53" I got my genuine reproduction flying hat in the mail and I love it. -------- Building steel fuselage aircamper. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406788#406788 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: Jack Scott I have and I can't find the article, it looked pretty slick... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Aug 15, 2013, at 1:31 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > Here is another way to build your own static balance tool. I have not built one myself but had seen it printed somewhere and drew this up quickly from memory. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. > > Please don't take me wrong on my last post. dynamic balancing is good and I think it has its place with metal and constant speed props but I really don't think we need it on our Piets. They are simple machines. > > Attached is the rough drawing I made. Has anyone ever used this method before? > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406787#406787 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130815095521067_571.pdf > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "AircamperN11MS" I think it was published in one of our Tech Counselor magazines. I am over fifty and my memory stinks. :) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406790#406790 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:25 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? #2 is to your question, Scott. These two photos show almost all one needs to know about prop balancing tools...from the prop carving demo's at Air Venture. I should point out, the attached is from a prop carving essay that I got from Dan Helsper, and wish to emphasize that ANYONE capable of building a Pietenpol is capable of making their own prop...with the tools they already have! Do not be misled by claims of machinest type tools, or terms like "a thousandth of an inch", or dynamic balancing. #3 is a picture of my Piet with the current prop, made from poplar. I confess, that I am purchasing a Culver prop, as I need a bench mark for future carvings. My goal will be to make my Piet fly as well as Mike Groah's, so I am working to change things to be similar to his. I have the same engine, but also want the same climb, cruise and cooling numbers. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? --> Here is another way to build your own static balance tool. I have not built one myself but had seen it printed somewhere and drew this up quickly from memory. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. Please don't take me wrong on my last post. dynamic balancing is good and I think it has its place with metal and constant speed props but I really don't think we need it on our Piets. They are simple machines. Attached is the rough drawing I made. Has anyone ever used this method before? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406787#406787 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130815095521067_571.pdf ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:27 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking That's it Mario! Super simple and it will give you a very smooth running prop. I LOVE that wood prop with the metal hub. You have a very rare thing in that from what little I know about those kinds of prop s. Way cool. Great look!!! From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mario Giacummo Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking Another one.. the same perhaps? http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html Mario Giacummo 2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] > Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more than w elcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used with a vise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened. I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2 d ays, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, if n ot moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown s hopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will resul t in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great. Mike C. (I'll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you) [cid:image001.jpg@01CE99CA.A2F14F10] [cid:image002.jpg@01CE99CA.A2F14F10] -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? yocum137@gmail.com>> On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > My three cents, Now lets go flying. Hear, hear! ==================== bsp; - The Pi etenpol-List Email Forum - nd much much more: tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List"> http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =============== ===== bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - eb Forums! .matronics.c om">http://forums.matronics.com ======= ============= bsp; - List Contribution Web Si te - o:p> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. tronics.com/c ontribution"> http://www.matronics.com/con tribution =================== ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: "John Francis" I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:50 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scott's method for prop balancing. That is another great way to balance a prop Scott and I've used that method . I made up a gidgee (technical term for prop hub fitting) whereby I hung my Corby Starlet prop assembly from a cable and simply drilled a hol e and put a bolt, lockwasher, and nut on the spinner back plate at a position which brought the cable into the center of my gidgee and balanced the whole deal very nicely. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? From: "tools" Gary, I love those pics and writeups. Superbly elegant and simple. However, it doesn't address the inital question... If you have the luxury of drilling your bolt hole pattern AFTER you balance it, it is indeed a simple matter of indexing it off where you have determined the prop will balance. However, if you balance AFTER, it's critical that you balance at the exact center of the bolt hole pattern or it just doesn't matter. Indeed, for practical purposes none of this matters... Hell, the easy way would be to mock up the prop on the crank, without pistons installed and use the crank shaft as your hub, and the crank bearings as your balancing ways. You'll be ahead of the game as in that stead, how you mount it IS how it'll mount in use. But, if you ARE going to balance, and spend any time doing it, may as well do it as correctly as possible. If you don't, you could be making things worse, or just never really fixing anything which is frustrating and time wasting. If you're relying on a bubble, and the bubble isn't repeatable, it's a doomed cause. You MIGHT get good results, and if you do, great. But if you don't, and you don't realize the level on which you base your results is a causal factor, how could you proceed? Dynamic balancing is a GREAT way to check and correct stuff. Things in balance last longer and are more reliable. There are non phase methods of dynamic balancing that means decent dynamic balancing is possible with a cell phone app! AND a fair amount of knowing what's going on, which while a little esoteric, isn't difficult to pick up on. There are quite a few EAA chapters and such who own dynamic balancing set ups and break out their equipment and play around at fly-in's and such. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406797#406797 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Scott's method for prop balancing. From: "AircamperN11MS" Thanks Mike, Pictures are worth a thousand words. Yours looks great. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406800#406800 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:37 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? If you had ever made a prop, you would know that the center hole, 1/4", is the first thing done...in every board, prior to laminating! A simple jig with the bolt pattern is used, at any time after laminating, to drill the holes. You are complicating this whole issue, which does little to help others who may be contemplating this endeavor. Why don't you first make a prop, fly it on your Piet, then tell us how you did it? Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 12:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? Gary, I love those pics and writeups. Superbly elegant and simple. However, it doesn't address the inital question... If you have the luxury of drilling your bolt hole pattern AFTER you balance it, it is indeed a simple matter of indexing it off where you have determined the prop will balance. However, if you balance AFTER, it's critical that you balance at the exact center of the bolt hole pattern or it just doesn't matter. Indeed, for practical purposes none of this matters... Hell, the easy way would be to mock up the prop on the crank, without pistons installed and use the crank shaft as your hub, and the crank bearings as your balancing ways. You'll be ahead of the game as in that stead, how you mount it IS how it'll mount in use. But, if you ARE going to balance, and spend any time doing it, may as well do it as correctly as possible. If you don't, you could be making things worse, or just never really fixing anything which is frustrating and time wasting. If you're relying on a bubble, and the bubble isn't repeatable, it's a doomed cause. You MIGHT get good results, and if you do, great. But if you don't, and you don't realize the level on which you base your results is a causal factor, how could you proceed? Dynamic balancing is a GREAT way to check and correct stuff. Things in balance last longer and are more reliable. There are non phase methods of dynamic balancing that means decent dynamic balancing is possible with a cell phone app! AND a fair amount of knowing what's going on, which while a little esoteric, isn't difficult to pick up on. There are quite a few EAA chapters and such who own dynamic balancing set ups and break out their equipment and play around at fly-in's and such. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406797#406797 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:37 PM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges John, This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road trip to OSH). You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said, do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get your parts. Cheers, Ryan On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote: > > I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. > > Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. > > John > > -------- > John Francis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: Rick Holland Agree, WW always delivers. rick h On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:18 PM, John Francis wrote: > > I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend > (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it > and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I > still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him > in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact > information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls > (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in > early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the > final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. > > Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and > left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. > > John > > -------- > John Francis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 From: "taildrags" Helsper has his Corvair mounted funny in there... one of the heads and valve cover is sticking up out of the top of the cowling, and he has his crankcase breather vents going to some sort of a cooler. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406808#406808 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:20 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 He thinks outside the box... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 --> Helsper has his Corvair mounted funny in there... one of the heads and valve cover is sticking up out of the top of the cowling, and he has his crankcase breather vents going to some sort of a cooler. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406808#406808 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 From: danhelsper@aol.com Yea, and the grass isn't alive. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 10:05 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New photo emerges from Brodhead 2012 > You can tell that the photo wasn't from 2013, because nobody is wearing a p arka. BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406755#406755 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: Lion Mason John you might just show up at corvair college 27 in barn well sc in November. Let wunnerful know you will be there and I will Bet he will have your districbutor . Gardiner Sent from my iPhone On Aug 15, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > > John, > > This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's > just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their > time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For > example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair > College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at > http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road > trip to OSH). > > You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts > may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run > your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said, > do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get > your parts. Cheers, > > Ryan > > On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote: >> >> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. >> >> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. >> >> John >> >> -------- >> John Francis >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking From: danhelsper@aol.com Mike, Are you sure it wouldn't it be better to make it out of stainless? Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 10:27 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking I'm with you Mike. As we discussed, I'll take what you have. However, betwe en now and Monday, I may make up my own set of tapered plugs and balance sh aft, (machined aluminum) and support fixture for the prop. If I do, it wou ld be neat to compare each balance system to one another. Oh and don't forget the templates. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: Jack No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early on I considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for engines. After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not the only reason but I will stop there... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > > John, > > This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's > just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their > time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For > example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair > College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at > http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road > trip to OSH). > > You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts > may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run > your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said, > do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get > your parts. Cheers, > > Ryan > > On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote: >> >> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. >> >> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. >> >> John >> >> -------- >> John Francis >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: Gary Boothe Hold me back, Ryan!! Gary Sent from my iPhone On Aug 15, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jack wrote: > > No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early on I considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for engines. After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not the only reason but I will stop there... > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > >> >> John, >> >> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's >> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their >> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For >> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair >> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at >> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road >> trip to OSH). >> >> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts >> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run >> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said, >> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get >> your parts. Cheers, >> >> Ryan >> >> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote: >>> >>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. >>> >>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. >>> >>> John >>> >>> -------- >>> John Francis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: Jack Let it out Gary! Missed you at the Brat Fest this year. I will behave now... Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Aug 15, 2013, at 7:41 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Hold me back, Ryan!! > > Gary > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jack wrote: > >> >> No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early on I considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for engines. After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not the only reason but I will stop there... >> >> Sent from my iPad >> Jack Textor >> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: >> >>> >>> John, >>> >>> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's >>> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their >>> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For >>> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair >>> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at >>> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road >>> trip to OSH). >>> >>> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts >>> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run >>> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said, >>> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get >>> your parts. Cheers, >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote: >>>> >>>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. >>>> >>>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> John Francis >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol T-shirts from Brodhead 2013 From: "Bill Weeden" I found a 2XL shirt and a SMALL (one of each) in my stash. They have been added to the store. And no sweatshirts, sorry. It's a one weekend event in July in Wisconsin. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406819#406819 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking From: Jack Mario, wish you could bring it to the states! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Aug 15, 2013, at 2:18 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, L LC]" wrote: > That=99s it Mario! Super simple and it will give you a very smooth running prop. I LOVE that wood prop with the metal hub. You have > a very rare thing in that from what little I know about those kinds of pro ps. Way cool. Great look!!! > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mario Giacummo > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 2:20 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: simple prop balancer and tracking > > Another one.. the same perhaps? > > http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/2013/04/helice-balanceo.html > > > > > > Mario Giacummo > > > > 2013/8/15 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] > Mike-- Last spring I refinished and balanced my prop. You are more than w elcome to borrow my simple rubber stopper prop balancer that I used with a v ise as a knife edge w/ angle irons sharpened. > > > > I simply added a dab of varnish to the 'light' blade over the course of 2 d ays, let dry and it was in perfect balance. What is just as critical, if no t moresoe, to a smooth running prop is tracking > > the blade which we can do together if you'd like. All we need is a brown s hopping bag to tear up and a torque wrench. These two methods will result in a wonderfully smooth running prop. My Uncle > > Tony shows both of these methods in his books and they work great. > > > > Mike C. > > > > (I=99ll stop by the hangar tonight and pick this up for you) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:40 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dynamic balancing ? > > > > > > > > > > > On 08/15/2013 09:35 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > > > > > My three cents, Now lets go flying. > > > > Hear, hear! > > > > > > ==================== bsp; - The P ietenpol-List Email Forum - nd much much more: tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ====== ============== bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - eb Forums! .matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ====== ============== bsp; - List Contribution Web S ite - o:p> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. tronics.com/c ontribution"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======== =========== > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: Gary Boothe The loss was all mine, Jack! Next year is looking much better... Gary Sent from my iPhone On Aug 15, 2013, at 6:33 PM, Jack wrote: > > Let it out Gary! Missed you at the Brat Fest this year. > I will behave now... > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 7:41 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > >> >> Hold me back, Ryan!! >> >> Gary >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Jack wrote: >> >>> >>> No doubt William is a knowledgable authority on Corvairs. That said, early on I considered going that direction, ordered his book and started to look for engines. After learning about his slow response I went with a C-85. That's not the only reason but I will stop there... >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> Jack Textor >>> >>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> John, >>>> >>>> This is nothing new; it can take time to get parts from William, that's >>>> just the way it is. They are a small operation, and have to divide their >>>> time between production, builder assistance, traveling, and so on. For >>>> example, since you sent your distributor in there has been a Corvair >>>> College, Sun-N-Fun, Brodhead, and Oshkosh (see the Aug 12 write-up at >>>> http://flycorvair.net regarding their 3,500 mile 20-state 21-day road >>>> trip to OSH). >>>> >>>> You may also find that getting to the point of needing the given parts >>>> may expedite your order, e.g. you are waiting on the distributor to run >>>> your engine as opposed to just wanting the parts; YMMV. That being said, >>>> do not fear: they are a legitimate business, you will eventually get >>>> your parts. Cheers, >>>> >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> On 8/15/2013 2:18 PM, John Francis wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have my engine to a point that at the next Corvair College I attend (2014) it should be ready to run. I've enjoyed every part of building it and look forward to the day it runs and is mounted on my Piet. HOWEVER, I still have problems contacting William Wynne. I sent my distributor to him in early Feb. for rebuild. In the box was a letter with my contact information. I heard nothing. I followed up with emails and phone calls (left messages) and still nothing. He accepted my money vial paypal in early May (I thought maybe this was the problem as I wasn't sure what the final cost would be in Feb) but still no response. >>>>> >>>>> Alarm bells are starting to sound in my head. Today I called again and left another message. I also sent another email. We'll see what happens. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> -------- >>>>> John Francis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Read this topic online here: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406794#406794 > > > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: "kevinpurtee" William is nothing if not controversial. Despite his idiosyncrasies, this is what I know: 1) When I need a part to get the motor running he's on top of it, 2) When I need help diagnosing a problem he's on top of it, 3) He's one of the smartest people I've ever met, no exaggeration, 4) If you want to discuss basic, practical, no-kidding small airplane design he's a wealth of knowledge, 5) I've been doing aviation and industrial safety professionally since 1989. I've got credentials and everything. William has helped me clarify and refine my philosophy on aviation safety. This despite the fact that I've got a butt-load more flight time than he has, 6) If you want to really know how your motor works, he'll help you learn, 7) I am one of the most active Piet builders/flyers in the community and I am confident in my choice to rebuild FBG with a Corvair engine. Corvair Colleges are educational and entertaining, even if you don't plan to use a Corvair. They're worth going to just to see what he's going to come up with next. WW's a heckuvalot better source of information than many of the internet geniuses you'll find dispensing sage advice. You know who I'm talking about: the guys who didn't build their airplane and barely fly it but tell you all about how to do both. See you at CC28. -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee Rebuilding NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406828#406828 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Upcoming Corvair Colleges From: "taildrags" I didn't build my airplane, I barely fly it, and I tell you about how to do both. ;) With that out of the way, I'll say a couple of things: (1) my airplane has a Continental engine on it; (2) I have been working on my Corvair conversion for 14 years now, and it is still just a short block and two big boxes of prepped parts. Oh, and I still need to take the short block back apart so I can get a nitrided crank into it and prep the cases for a 5th bearing; (3) I consider William to be a close personal friend and one of the best and most down-to-earth engine and aircraft technicians and mechanics I have ever met. He is also extremely clever and practical, has a great sense of humor, and can talk so long that he should rent himself out as a professional filibuster speaker on Capitol Hill. Sometimes you get things back from William & Grace practically overnight, but other times it takes weeks or months. I got an engine mount from him the same week I spoke to him on the phone about it, before I sent him a penny in payment, and we are on opposite coasts of the U.S. The one thing William & Grace are *not*, are swindlers, charlatans, or cheats. I will stand behind that statement unconditionally. Off soapbox now; disclaimer: this has been a biased commentary and personal observation and is not intended to create heated discussion. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406830#406830 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.