Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Re: fuselage mockup (danhelsper@aol.com)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: fuselage mockup (airlion2@gmail.com)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: fuselage mockup (cjborsuk)
4. 06:41 AM - Brodhead 2012 (pineymb)
5. 09:47 AM - Re: fuselage mockup (Dick N)
6. 10:47 AM - Re: fuselage mockup (Ben Charvet)
7. 11:16 AM - Re: fuselage mockup (GNflyer)
8. 02:42 PM - Re: Brodhead 2012 (Gary Boothe)
9. 03:19 PM - Re: Brodhead 2012 (danhelsper@aol.com)
10. 03:33 PM - Re: Brodhead 2012 (Gary Boothe)
11. 04:11 PM - Re: Brodhead 2012 (pineymb)
12. 04:33 PM - More Latex Paint (gliderx5@comcast.net)
13. 06:11 PM - A Question About Lift Strut Fittings (jarheadpilot82)
14. 08:51 PM - Re: fuselage mockup (taildrags)
15. 09:01 PM - Re: A Question About Lift Strut Fittings (taildrags)
16. 09:14 PM - Re: Brodhead 2012 (taildrags)
17. 09:38 PM - Re: Missing posts (K5YAC)
18. 09:58 PM - Re: A Question About Lift Strut Fittings (Ken Bickers)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was so precio
us I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making something fake and
unairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just look at the plans and start cut
ting the real stuff. That's why I say make the ribs first. That is where th
e learning curve is achieved. Sorry guys.
(Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some expensive spruce
by having already going through the motions one time on the mock fuse. And
the kids can play with it when you are done, it the summer you can make a s
wing out of it and in the winter with that curved bottom it makes a kind of
weird sled.
rick h
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrot
e:
The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you don't p
lan to start your actual build for several months and you have some basic t
ools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus s
ome wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage mockup.
It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back and only needs to in
clude enough of the framing to give you a sturdy mockup that you can sit in
and get an idea of the fit. You could get fancier and assemble a simple r
udder bar and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or scrap
tubing so you can feel the control geometry as well, but that's extra work.
No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you could
get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you have a s
hop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things that you al
ready have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
I agree Dan. Also if you make the fuse wider like I did at 26 inches you won
,t have to worry about getting in. Cheers, gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 18, 2013, at 7:44 AM, danhelsper@aol.com wrote:
> All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was so preci
ous I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making something fake and u
nairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just look at the plans and start cutti
ng the real stuff. That's why I say make the ribs first. That is where the l
earning curve is achieved. Sorry guys.
>
> (Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
>
> It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some expensive spruce
by having already going through the motions one time on the mock fuse. And t
he kids can play with it when you are done, it the summer you can make a swi
ng out of it and in the winter with that curved bottom it makes a kind of we
ird sled.
>
> rick h
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wro
te:
>>
>> The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you don't
plan to start your actual build for several months and you have some basic t
ools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus so
me wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage mockup. It
only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back and only needs to inclu
de enough of the framing to give you a sturdy mockup that you can sit in and
get an idea of the fit. You could get fancier and assemble a simple rudder
bar and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or scrap tubing
so you can feel the control geometry as well, but that's extra work.
>>
>> No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you coul
d get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you have a s
hop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things that you alr
eady have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Medford, OR
>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>> A75 power
>>
>>
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
> NX6819Z
>
>
>
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
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>
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
Dan just beat me to the thought. If this was a new design it would be a different
story, or if you plan on redesigning the airplane (not recommended). I started
with the ribs. You can start the project with less than two hundred dollars,
build the jig and go at it. I did not build a mock up and would have felt I
was wasting building time. I drew out the larger parts on brown paper and ordered
very specific cuts from Spruce and Wicks. They are very accommodating and
it saves a lot of waste. Don't over analyze and don't over plan. Order some cap
strip (5 foot pieces), 16th inch ply, ask them to cut it for cheapest shipping,
buy the T-88 local and go to it. Plenty of examples of rib jigs on the web.
Jump in with the ribs and rest will take care of it self. The EAA website has
some good tips in their Hints for Homebuilders section.
Have fun.
Chuck
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406957#406957
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A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
Attachments:
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
Great post Dan, I;m with you.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: danhelsper@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was so
precious I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making something
fake and unairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just look at the plans
and start cutting the real stuff. That's why I say make the ribs first.
That is where the learning curve is achieved. Sorry guys.
(Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some expensive
spruce by having already going through the motions one time on the mock
fuse. And the kids can play with it when you are done, it the summer you
can make a swing out of it and in the winter with that curved bottom it
makes a kind of weird sled.
rick h
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent. If you
don't plan to start your actual build for several months and you have
some basic tools, just go down and buy some inexpensive pine planks and
plywood, plus some wood glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a
fuselage mockup. It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat back
and only needs to include enough of the framing to give you a sturdy
mockup that you can sit in and get an idea of the fit. You could get
fancier and assemble a simple rudder bar and walking beam with control
sticks out of broomsticks or scrap tubing so you can feel the control
geometry as well, but that's extra work.
No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips, and you
could get it into shape pretty quickly if you have a staple gun. If you
have a shop with a scrap bin, you could probably build it out of things
that you already have in your scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
NX6819Z
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
On the fuselage mock-up, that's just what I did..(that was the original
question) Wasn't suggesting everyone do it...
Ben
On 8/18/2013 12:47 PM, Dick N wrote:
> Great post Dan, I;m with you.
> Dick N.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* danhelsper@aol.com <mailto:danhelsper@aol.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:44 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
>
> All this talk about building fake fuselages. My building time was
> so precious I couldn't stand the thought of spending time making
> something fake and unairworthy. Its not that complicated. Just
> look at the plans and start cutting the real stuff. That's why I
> say make the ribs first. That is where the learning curve is
> achieved. Sorry guys.
> (Designated Curmudgeon while Larry is gone)
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2013 7:44 pm
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuselage mockup
>
> It is a great idea, and you can prevent screwing up some
> expensive spruce by having already going through the motions one
> time on the mock fuse. And the kids can play with it when you are
> done, it the summer you can make a swing out of it and in the
> winter with that curved bottom it makes a kind of weird sled.
>
> rick h
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga
> <taildrags@hotmail.com <mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> The idea of building a simple fuselage mockup is excellent.
> If you don't plan to start your actual build for several
> months and you have some basic tools, just go down and buy
> some inexpensive pine planks and plywood, plus some wood
> glue, and spend a couple of weekends building a fuselage
> mockup. It only needs to be from firewall to pilot's seat
> back and only needs to include enough of the framing to give
> you a sturdy mockup that you can sit in and get an idea of the
> fit. You could get fancier and assemble a simple rudder bar
> and walking beam with control sticks out of broomsticks or
> scrap tubing so you can feel the control geometry as well, but
> that's extra work.
>
> No need for precision, no need to take care with glue drips,
> and you could get it into shape pretty quickly if you have
> a staple gun. If you have a shop with a scrap bin, you could
> probably build it out of things that you already have in your
> scrap bin and lumber cutoff pile.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
> NX6819Z
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Ben Charvet, PharmD
Staff Pharmacist
Parrish Medical center
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
I think Oscar's tip on the mockup is certainly worth the time. if you have never
climbed into one you sure may be in for a surprise. This GN-1 I bought as a
project from D.J. looked and sounded plenty big, but in reality with my long legs
I would not have wanted to try to build it any smaller and when there is a
person in the front seat with anything more than a very narrow fuselage my feet
are dragging against them. I will need to fabricate some type of raised platform
to accommodate my size 11's or sure. Raymond
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406981#406981
Message 8
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Nice shots, Adrian! I especially like the picture of Dan Yocum's Piet!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
Yea me too. I gave that kid (in the background) with the Mohawk a free ride
!!
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:42 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
Nice shots, Adrian! I especially like the picture of Dan Yocum's Piet!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
...'cuz he didn't like the first?
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2013, at 3:18 PM, danhelsper@aol.com wrote:
> Yea me too. I gave that kid (in the background) with the Mohawk a free rid
e!!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Puryear, TN
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
> To: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:42 pm
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
>
>
> Nice shots, Adrian! I especially like the picture of Dan Yocum's Piet!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pineymb
> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:41 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2012
>
>
> A few shots of some favorite airplanes for your viewing pleasure.
> Kevin - I'm sure Edition2 will looks as great as the first.
>
> --------
> Adrian M
> Winnipeg, MB
> Canada
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406958#406958
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00276_121.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00266_154.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00257_113.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00246_113.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00243_443.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
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>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
Yep!! always liked Dan's plane - maybe a little bias, has a lot of similarities
to mine I think.
--------
Adrian M
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406996#406996
Message 12
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| Subject: | More Latex Paint |
Hi Guys, Me again.
I will be doing a webinar version of the forum that I presented at Oshkosh on
painting with Latex paint. The forum was well attended and I have received a
lot of inquiries from builders that could not make it to Airventure. The EAA's
webinars seems to be a good solution to share the information with anyone else
that is interested.
"Latex Paint for Your Homebuilt Aircraft"
Wednesday, October 9, 2013 7:00 PM - 8:30 PM CDT
You can go to http://www.eaa.org/webinars to see upcoming presentations and to
register to participate. It will be basically the same slides that are on my
web site, with my droning dialog added of course.
Keep it cheap
Malcolm Morrison
Message 13
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| Subject: | A Question About Lift Strut Fittings |
I am getting ready to start making metal fittings. I have a question specifically
about the fittings that connect the top of the lift strut to the spar.
I have seen or read other people's discussions about these lift strut fittings,
where people said the original design left little working room when trying to
work at that fitting once the wing is covered. So my question is this- did you
build your fittings to plans, and if not, how far do you recommend the fitting
should stick out below the lower capstrip of the ribs?
Thanks!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407005#407005
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fuselage mockup |
Now, now... everyone play nice ;o) Not everyone gets to work in the shop frequently,
and not everyone has ever built something like an airplane. My suggestion
was to a particular individual who stated that they won't be starting the
construction of their actual Air Camper until next year (for whatever their reasons),
so I suggested that in the meantime it might be a fun and low-stress project
of a weekend or two to put together a very simple and low-cost mockup.
This would serve two purposes: (1) at a very minimal outlay of time and money,
it would allow the prospective builder to get a feel for how the airplane is
constructed and how it fits, and (2) if it fires some enthusiasm based on how
simple and straightforward it is, it may advance their program to just get started
now rather than waiting until February. If this builder is like me, he
is very unsure of his building skills and very concerned about doing something
inaccurately or "wrong", so just playing with some Doug fir or pine studs and
some cheap plywood means that nothing happens if the fake longeron has some wowies
or blade burns in it when it gets ripped, and nothing happens if a crosscut
goes too far. It all goes together with Elmer's glue and staples (or even
drywall screws), and nobody is going to inspect it. If it doesn't work out,
you spray paint it with camouflage paint for the kids, or you smash it into kindling
and enjoy the fire one evening.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407009#407009
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: A Question About Lift Strut Fittings |
Terry; I'm sorry I can't offer exact dimensions and I don't know whether the fittings
on 41CC are to plans or not, but perhaps you can look at the pictures here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/inspection.html
The 2nd and 6th images on that page will give you some idea of what you have to
deal with in that area. Besides the heads of the strut attach bolts, you have
to slip on the tangs that the X-brace wires attach to. Another consideration,
albeit minor, is that the inspection covers need to be accessed and they are
right at the bolt heads.
You can see a very nice arrangement here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html
Look at the 5th image from the bottom. John Dilatush installed wing tiedowns at
those strut attach points and also extended the fittings generously below the
bottom wing skin so that a box-end wrench or socket could be put over the nuts
on the attach fitting bolts. You might put a socket on your ratchet and see
how much space you need to get it onto a nut that is tight up against a surface.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407010#407010
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead 2012 |
Scout's nemesis will always be Niner Niner Kilo Papa. We don't stand a snowball's
chance in hell of ever catching him, much less with his eyes blinded by the
sun, but Fat Bottomed Girl smoked my tail so badly that I will never forget
it. Me and my buddy took off from Old Kingsbury Aerodrome so pleased with ourselves
and the next thing we know as we are leveled off in cruise, "HONK, HONK!"-
there's Niner Kilo Papa climbing up our tailpipe like we were standing still.
Dang it, Axel!
One of these days I'll get even.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407012#407012
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| Subject: | Re: Missing posts |
Yep... this was brought up a while back... not sure what the fix is.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407013#407013
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: A Question About Lift Strut Fittings |
Terry, the new improved plans from 1934 show both the original strut attach strap
design and a new design that Mr. Pietenpol recommended as a replacement. The
'new' design can be easily lengthened by a small amount.
On Aug 18, 2013, at 7:11 PM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am getting ready to start making metal fittings. I have a question specifically
about the fittings that connect the top of the lift strut to the spar.
>
> I have seen or read other people's discussions about these lift strut fittings,
where people said the original design left little working room when trying
to work at that fitting once the wing is covered. So my question is this- did
you build your fittings to plans, and if not, how far do you recommend the fitting
should stick out below the lower capstrip of the ribs?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407005#407005
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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