---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/05/13: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - Welding AN bolts (John Franklin) 2. 06:38 AM - Re: Welding AN bolts (Hans van der Voort) 3. 07:06 AM - step (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 07:22 AM - Re: front seat height (nightmare) 5. 08:06 AM - Re: Step (nightmare) 6. 09:45 AM - FAA Inspection.... (Chris Rusch) 7. 10:01 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... () 8. 10:06 AM - Re: Welding AN bolts (Don Emch) 9. 10:42 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (Gary Boothe) 10. 10:50 AM - Motor Mount (Walter Allen) 11. 12:48 PM - Re: step (Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB) 12. 12:55 PM - Re: step (Marcus Zechini) 13. 01:41 PM - Re: step (Rick Holland) 14. 04:04 PM - Re: Step (jarheadpilot82) 15. 04:35 PM - About wing tank (giacummo) 16. 07:08 PM - Re: Welding AN bolts (bdewenter) 17. 07:28 PM - Re: About wing tank (tools) 18. 08:26 PM - Re: About wing tank (nightmare) 19. 10:26 PM - Re: About wing tank (tools) 20. 10:49 PM - Horiz stab mounting. (tools) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:41 AM PST US From: John Franklin Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding AN bolts Pietsters, I may need to weld some AN bolts to 4130 tubing. What is the plating material on the AN bolts, is it zinc chromate or cadmium? Is it hazardous to weld this stuff, and if so, how can I remove it before welding? Thanks, John Franklin Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:03 AM PST US From: Hans van der Voort Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding AN bolts John,=0A-=0AStandard AN bolts are Cadmium plated.=0A-=0ACadmium is toxi c, remove it by sanding, grinding or burning it of, just do not breath the fumes or dust.=0AZinc is also toxic.=0A-=0AOr you can buy some un-coated or black oxide bolts from McMaster.=0A-=0AHans=0A-=0ANX15KV=0A =0A=0A__ ______________________________=0A From: John Franklin =0ATo: Piet_List =0ASent: Thursday, Septembe r 5, 2013 7:53 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Welding AN bolts=0A =0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Franklin =0A=0A Pietsters,=0A=0AI may need to weld some AN bolts to 4130 tubing.- What is the plating material on the AN bolts, is it zinc chromate or cadmium?- I s it hazardous to weld this stuff, and if so, how can I remove it before we lding?=0A=0AThanks,=0AJohn Franklin=0APrairie Aire 4TA0=0ANeedville, TX=0A ================= ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:18 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: step First off, congrats Bob on your progress, she's looking more and more like an airplane. I gotta get up and visit. Secondly, re cockpit steps. I had never thought I'd put one on, and my plane's first version didn't have any. I'm pretty flexible and getting in wasn't a big deal. However, when I had to rebuild the plane, I did add a step for the rear cockpit, mainly thinking of resale or getting older and find that I'm really glad I did. It just makes it easier. Now I wish I had installed one for the front pit too. I'm sure any design will work, though the recessed ones certainly are cleaner. D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:19 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: front seat height From: "nightmare" Thanks Jerry: im going 2 inches wider on fuselage. That should help. But looks like ill be keeping standard height on the seat. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408058#408058 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:23 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Step From: "nightmare" Oscar; just read your comment about Helper's step. Way too funny. Flashback of Catholic school with mother Mary. A hula girl would look great in there too. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408066#408066 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection.... From: "Chris Rusch" I am patiently waiting for the FAA to come and do my airworthiness inspection......i called over a month and a half ago. I called to see whats up and all i get is that im on the list. Any tips on how to light a fire under these guys? The nice weather is going to be gone and ill have to wait another 6 months. Maybe me whining about it will trigger some psychic vibe and they will call today! -------- NX321LR ON THE FINAL PUSH!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408072#408072 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:50 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection.... I would suggest finding a DAR, if you can, in your area. There is one in our area that pretty much everyone in our EAA chapter uses but just like FAA inspectors they can sometimes be "not so nice". You will have to pay them but they can set a specific time and place for the inspection so you will KNOW when it is instead of the FAA calling saying "Ve Vill be there at 1pm." and you having to drop everything to meet them. I don't think there are very many FAA inspectors out there anymore so they probably get very backlogged. Rodney ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:46 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding AN bolts From: "Don Emch" You really don't want to grind or sand on bolts. Only creates a stress riser where you don't want it. Dunk the bolts in some lye or even just drain opener then rinse them in some water. The cadmium plating comes right off. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408075#408075 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:10 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection.... That's the Down Side, Chris. The Up Side being that the inspection is free. My experience with my local FAA guy was just the opposite, so I guess it's a regional thing, possibly depending on how close or far you are from the nearest office. Still, I gotta think your time is getting close... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Rusch Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection.... --> I am patiently waiting for the FAA to come and do my airworthiness inspection......i called over a month and a half ago. I called to see whats up and all i get is that im on the list. Any tips on how to light a fire under these guys? The nice weather is going to be gone and ill have to wait another 6 months. Maybe me whining about it will trigger some psychic vibe and they will call today! -------- NX321LR ON THE FINAL PUSH!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408072#408072 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:42 AM PST US From: Walter Allen Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motor Mount I am looking for a motor mount for a Ford Model A, I have the white ash woo d pieces, but I need the metal tube mount, if any one has one they want to sell, let me know.=0A-=0AThanks=0AWalter ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:43 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step UNCLASSIFIED With my Pietenkit there is a small step that attaches to the Piper Cub landing gear and is for the front cockpit. Does anyone else have one of these? Blue Skies, Steve D On 09/05/13, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > > > > First off, congrats Bob on your progress, she’s looking more and more like an airplane. I gotta get up and visit. > > > > Secondly, re cockpit steps. I had never thought I’d put one on, and my plane’s first version didn’t have any. I’m pretty flexible and getting in wasn’t a big deal. However, when I had to rebuild the plane, I did add a step for the rear cockpit, mainly thinking of resale or getting older and find that I’m really glad I did. It just makes it easier. Now I wish I had installed one for the front pit too. > > > > I’m sure any design will work, though the recessed ones certainly are cleaner. > > > > D > > UNCLASSIFIED ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step From: Marcus Zechini Can I see a picture? I hhave Cub gear, currently not covered. Also have step for front ( a peg fastened to underside of fuse), but would like to see... maybe Univair, one of those places has a pic of ones for sale? On Sep 5, 2013 3:51 PM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" < steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote: > steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> > > UNCLASSIFIED > With my Pietenkit there is a small step that attaches to the Piper Cub > landing gear and is for the front cockpit. Does anyone else have one of > these? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > On 09/05/13, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > First off, congrats Bob on your progress, she’s looking more and > more like an airplane. I gotta get up and visit. > > > > > > > > Secondly, re cockpit steps. I had never thought I’d put one on, > and my plane’s first version didn’t have any. I’m pretty > flexible and getting in wasn’t a big deal. However, when I had to > rebuild the plane, I did add a step for the rear cockpit, mainly thinking > of resale or getting older and find that I’m really glad I did. It > just makes it easier. Now I wish I had installed one for the front pit too. > > > > > > > > I’m sure any design will work, though the recessed ones certainly > are cleaner. > > > > > > > > D > > > > > UNCLASSIFIED > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: step From: Rick Holland If you have metal gear you can weld on a step, plus a front step for Piets with a center section tank. rh On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB < steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote: > steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> > > UNCLASSIFIED > With my Pietenkit there is a small step that attaches to the Piper Cub > landing gear and is for the front cockpit. Does anyone else have one of > these? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > On 09/05/13, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > First off, congrats Bob on your progress, she’s looking more and > more like an airplane. I gotta get up and visit. > > > > > > > > Secondly, re cockpit steps. I had never thought I’d put one on, > and my plane’s first version didn’t have any. I’m pretty > flexible and getting in wasn’t a big deal. However, when I had to > rebuild the plane, I did add a step for the rear cockpit, mainly thinking > of resale or getting older and find that I’m really glad I did. It > just makes it easier. Now I wish I had installed one for the front pit too. > > > > > > > > I’m sure any design will work, though the recessed ones certainly > are cleaner. > > > > > > > > D > > > > > UNCLASSIFIED > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Step From: "jarheadpilot82" Rick, I am certainly no expert, but I had always been told to avoid using the gear for a step or welding a step onto a gear leg. Stress on the gear leg. Maybe someone with a lot more knowledge can chime in. Or you may be the one with more experience, Rick, and I am just wrong. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408097#408097 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: About wing tank From: "giacummo" Hello, I try a search, but I do not find anything about what I want to know; so, my doubt. I am going to put a wing tank, and I want at least 12 gl of fuel (for 3 hours of flight +-). In the plans, the tank have it bottom in V, for obvious causes, But I am thinking in a flat bottom inclined to the rear of the wing with a slug at the very bottom. I don't remember/find the wing "normal" angle of flight, to see how much angle give to the bottom of the tank relative to the wing angle; do you understand what I want to do/know?.. may be you have something to tell me about this. Thank you. -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408102#408102 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Welding AN bolts From: "bdewenter" Don Emch wrote: > You really don't want to grind or sand on bolts. Only creates a stress riser where you don't want it. Dunk the bolts in some lye or even just drain opener then rinse them in some water. The cadmium plating comes right off. > > Don Emch > NX899DE What a GREAT tip Don, Thanks! Is this in Uncle Tony's book somewhere? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408110#408110 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" Mario, I think I understand what you are asking. Something to really consider is "normal". First, there's just a lot of factors on a plane this individualized to really know what "normal" is. Also, feeding from the rear... I think it's best to consider "worst case scenario". I really don't know of any situations where someone runs out of gas when they're taking off. It's usually when they've been flying too long, and are in the landing mode. At that point, you are rather nose down, slow and close to the ground. If you're feeding from the rear, all the gas is AWAY from the pickup point, unless you have so much slope that would negate the advantages of not making the low point in the middle (as in your case of going for maximum volume). Without trim or flaps, a Piet flys a different angle of attack (and it's quite a bit of pitch change) for EVERY different speed. Something worth considering is keeping the standard shape wing tank and adding a header tank (which is what 2RN has). A header tank eliminates A LOT of the danger of a large flatish bottom wing tank, which can easily slosh away a significant amount of fuel. It would even make a front or rear pickup point a lot safer. 2RN has a 4 gallon header tank, which is an hour of fuel nearly. It's nice to know that if I plan on landing with an hour of fuel, there's no chance of a flame out because of an airplane attitude which causes a momentary loss of fuel from the wing tank. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408113#408113 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "nightmare" Im building my tank with one front and one rear pickup on left side. The bottom of tank will be tilted to the left. This type of setup is not only best over flat bottom tank but also, and maybe more important, it allows a definite low spot for condensation to go so that you will be assured you can remove it all prior to flight. I may also do a header tank too. Tools , does a header tank have a shut off valve and drain? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408117#408117 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" I've got two shutoff valves, one coming from the wing tank (which drains directly to the header tank), the other after the header tank before the engine. There's also valved port coming from the top of the header tank, which allows me to vent the headspace from it (which is necessary when filling the tank initially, and anytime afterwards when some air from the wing tank might have gotten into the header tank as when it's nearly empty, which I've never done yet). I do double check for air space in the header tank every few flights, and haven't found any, which is a nice feel good sort of thing that there's no leaks or plumbing problems. I can drain the header tank by closing off the wing tank, opening the header tank vent valve, then opening the drain on the gascolator. So, yes and yes, but it's not quite just that simple. I didn't know anything about the value of a header tank until Dick N explained it all to me. I wouldn't be without one now. Even the Glastars I fly owned by the EAA have had a sort of header tank retrofitted to them. Without one, I'd be hesitant taking a wing tank alone below about a third or a quarter. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408119#408119 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Horiz stab mounting. From: "tools" Curious how most folks have mounted their horiz stab? While rebuilding the last foot of my fuse, I'm redoing that mounting. As it turns out, the upper longerons broke right at where I have through bolts mounting the stab, which go through the main (or center) spar of the stab. There are mounting bolt holes in the leading edge, but not used. My stab is uncovered and while mocking everything together, I noticed them and the whole arrangement got me to researching... First, where the longerons broke, where the through holes are located, there isn't a gusset plate which I found odd. I checked the plans, and the gusset plates are located right where depicted. However, I noticed that the plans call for mounting the stab with screws, not through bolts, in four locations, the leading edge and the center spar. The trailing edge is mounted with bolts through the stab, but into brackets that also hold the rudder and has a through bolt mounted horizontally through the tailpost, no problem there. I decided that there's no problem with no mounting hardware on the leading edge of the stab (it's how the stab is mounted on the J1 - and probably lots more stabs out there), especially with a much stronger through bolt. However, I did go ahead and replace the exterior gusset plate (which I glued on only yesterday, only to remove it today!) with one that's extended aft about two inches to reinforce where the longeron has a hole through it. It's a small change, but I think necessary because of the through hole "modification". Not a huge deal, probably never would have manifested itself but not for a ground loop where some soft dirt caught the tail wheel and ripped off the tail post. Just curious if most folks are though bolting the stab, or using wood screws? If you're building and haven't covered your fuse yet, it's pretty easy to look it all over and decide for yourself if it's a deal or not. If your fuse is covered, and through bolted, and the gusset plate isn't a bit longer, it wouldn't be hard to put a couple scarf plates on the longeron where the through bolt is (one one the inside, the other on the bottom) without dismantling any more than an inspection plate (or whatever access you have that allowed you to get the nut on the back of that bolt). It is a good example of how the smallest change seems to have cascading effects. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408120#408120 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.