Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:46 AM - Re: Horiz stab mounting. (Michael Perez)
2. 04:54 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (gliderx5@comcast.net)
3. 05:07 AM - Re: Horiz stab mounting. (tools)
4. 05:14 AM - Re: About wing tank (giacummo)
5. 05:16 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (Jerry Dotson)
6. 05:19 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (tools)
7. 05:21 AM - Re: Welding AN bolts (Chuck Campbell)
8. 05:28 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools)
9. 05:33 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... ()
10. 05:33 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools)
11. 05:44 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (Chris Rusch)
12. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Horiz stab mounting. (Michael Perez)
13. 05:51 AM - Re: Re: About wing tank (Mario Giacummo)
14. 06:29 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools)
15. 06:57 AM - Specifics N973DS----Pietenpol For Sale $11,000 (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
16. 07:14 AM - Re: About wing tank (Gary Boothe)
17. 08:24 AM - Re: About wing tank (Mario Giacummo)
18. 08:49 AM - Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
19. 09:11 AM - Re: Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers (Gary Boothe)
20. 09:49 AM - Re: About wing tank (nightmare)
21. 10:06 AM - Re: Step (Bill Church)
22. 10:16 AM - Re: Step (AircamperN11MS)
23. 10:22 AM - Re: About wing tank (giacummo)
24. 10:30 AM - Re: Step (jarheadpilot82)
25. 10:56 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools)
26. 02:07 PM - Re: About wing tank (nightmare)
27. 03:58 PM - fuel tank (Douwe Blumberg)
28. 03:59 PM - FAA inspector/DAR (Douwe Blumberg)
29. 04:17 PM - Re: About wing tank (tools)
30. 04:21 PM - Re: fuel tank (tools)
31. 07:06 PM - Re: About wing tank (nightmare)
32. 08:19 PM - Re: About wing tank (tools)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Horiz stab mounting. |
Tools, attached are a couple pictures showing how I did mine. The first pic
ture shows the overall attachment of the horizontal stabilizer to the plane
. You will note that it is attached to the longerons up front, with the rud
der brackets at the main spar and with the as drawn brackets at the tail po
st.- The second picture shows the added support for the main spar attachm
ent to rudder brackets and the added plywood for where the nut plates go. (
I always add plywood to the bolt holes in the soft spruce.)- All bolts ar
e through...no wood screws. I am not a big fan of having any bolts through
the longerons, so I tried to keep that to a minimum throughout the entire b
uild. I am also not a big fan of wood screws going into soft spruce.- The
plywood "shelf" that the- horizontal stabilizer sits on helps tie it all
together.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker
Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: FAA Inspection.... |
In my region the FAA told me that they no longer do homebuilt inspections and I
would HAVE TO use a DAR. Our DAR is a retired FAA guy that lives 2 hours away
and charges around $1500 by the time you figure in his hotel, transportation,
food, and his fee. This seems like an FAA retirement fund! Anyway, I kept bugging
the MIDO and finally they agreed to inspect my airplane, but only because
they were training someone new to the process. It took about 2 hours for the
actual inspection. DAR would be a good paying job if you could get it.
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Rusch" <rmdinfo@rmdbenders.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:44:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection....
I am patiently waiting for the FAA to come and do my airworthiness inspection......i
called over a month and a half ago. I called to see whats up and all i get
is that im on the list. Any tips on how to light a fire under these guys? The
nice weather is going to be gone and ill have to wait another 6 months. Maybe
me whining about it will trigger some psychic vibe and they will call today!
--------
NX321LR
ON THE FINAL PUSH!!
Mitsubishi Powered
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Subject: | Re: Horiz stab mounting. |
Thanks Mike! Man, wish I'd have seen those pics BEFORE I started that repair,
would have saved A LOT of headscratching and digging through a bunch of piles
of rubble trying to piece together exactly how everything was before. And I only
took it apart last week (well, took the stab off months ago when I retrieved
the plane, dismantled the damaged area just last week)...
Quick question, since you don't have lock nuts, what are you doing to prevent those
bolts from backing out? Of course, may not be a big deal since it's so easy
to preflight.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408132#408132
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
I thought about a little one in the nose, and how to use it.
One is fill the nose tank with the wing one, and connect the nose one to the gascolator;
this option need a vent from the nose tank to the wing one, isn't it?
the other option is a 3 way valve that connect the wing, nose and gas colator,
one position, wing gascolator, second position, nose gascolator. this one is simpler
because I avoid the vent from nose to wing. I think there is no trouble
with the second one if avoid conect nose with wing
--------
Mario Giacummo
Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
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Subject: | Re: FAA Inspection.... |
Chris,
I called the Birmingham office a few times and finally pushed the guy to estimate
when he would come. He said it would probably be a year or more????? I called
the DAR in Mobile and 4 days later and $500 he got me in the air. Then the
FAA sent one of their people to issue my repairman certificate within just a
few days. That was hard to figure out....they could not do the inspection but
came right away for that. Go figure. I wanted to save that $500 but I wanted to
fly too...............
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | Re: FAA Inspection.... |
Really? Fifteen hundred bucks?!! Have you considered flying the plane TO HIM
to save on the auxillary fees? Just sayin'.
When my dad got his Hatz inspected (by the FAA), the guy asked him what all the
rubber bands were in the wings, "uh, do you mean the rib stitching?" says dad.
Wow...
When I got my CFI (via the military competency test, which is nothing more than
that, just a simple multiple choice fifty question test from their test question
bank) it cost about a hundred fifty bucks to schedule it being administered
through a local college since they don't do that anymore. I got my commercial/instrument
the same way, military competency test, but then you could walk
into a FSDO and take the test for free, only took about 10 minutes of interaction
with an inspector (about three of which were for this test, hand it to me,
thirty minutes later grade it with the classic punched hole overlay, not a lot
of work!).
What DO they do? Of course, it's like the old saying goes, just be happy we don't
get all the government we pay for...
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | Welding AN bolts |
John=2C I had a couple of AN bolts welded to a flat 4130 sheet to hold my t
ailwheel. The welder did it without any ill effects. Chuck
> Date: Thu=2C 5 Sep 2013 07:53:58 -0500
> From: jbfjr@peoplepc.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding AN bolts
>
>
> Pietsters=2C
>
> I may need to weld some AN bolts to 4130 tubing. What is the plating mat
erial on the AN bolts=2C is it zinc chromate or cadmium? Is it hazardous t
o weld this stuff=2C and if so=2C how can I remove it before welding?
>
> Thanks=2C
> John Franklin
> Prairie Aire 4TA0
> Needville=2C TX
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
Mario,
There's a third way to plumb the header tank, like mine is. You don't need to
vent the header tank to the wing if you have a vent on the header tank (at it's
own level) that you can shut off. That way the wing tank will fill the header
until it is full (when fuel runs out the valve), then you close it.
It's just like a big bubble in the fuel line on the way to the engine. Like an
hour worth of fuel big bubble (it could easily be as small as a gallon I think).
You just need to crack open that valve every so often to ensure the header tank
is full. It WILL be unless you've drained the wing tank pretty empty or there's
a problem. Just put the valve somewhere convenient so it's easy to do on
a preflight, not much different than sumping a tank.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408137#408137
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Subject: | Re: FAA Inspection.... |
1500 for someone who lives two hours away is robbery. There should be no Hotel,
food, etc. The DAR we use charges about 500 usually. That includes a mileage
charge for him to drive here from maryland. Why would he need a Hotel anyway?
It doesn't take that long.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
Mario,
Also, I LIKE the drawing of your idea a lot. I didn't fully understand the little
dropped pickup point you did mention. If that were nearly a gallon or two,
it would really act like a header tank, especially if baffled well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408138#408138
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: FAA Inspection.... |
I went to the airport last night taxied around a bit and a crowd gathered..."when
you gonna fly this thing" i told them i was waiting for the FAA and i got a
bunch of laughs.......anyways one of the bystanders is emailing me today a number
for the DAR that they used in the past and said it worked out real well.
so hopefully soon!
--------
NX321LR
ON THE FINAL PUSH!!
Mitsubishi Powered
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Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Horiz stab mounting. |
The "T" nuts got the threaded area squeezed ever so slightly before being e
poxied in place. I will also add a little lock tite to the threads upon fin
al assembly. As you mentioned, easy enough to keep an eye on torque during
pre-flight.=0A=0AI also have access back there, so if needed, longer bolts
and added lock nuts can be used at a later time.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Pere
z=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
Yes, my english vocabulary is short, and sometimes is difficult to write
what i think.
Thanks and regards
Mario Giacummo
2013/9/6 tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
>
> Mario,
>
> Also, I LIKE the drawing of your idea a lot. I didn't fully understand
> the little dropped pickup point you did mention. If that were nearly a
> gallon or two, it would really act like a header tank, especially if
> baffled well.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408138#408138
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
Rest assured it wasn't your English Mario! You speak better English than I do
ANY language, English included!
Read this topic online here:
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Message 15
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Subject: | Specifics N973DS----Pietenpol For Sale $11,000 |
Here is an excellent write up which gives specific details about Doc & Dee'
s Pietenpol.
Also, regarding the Strategic Air Command markings that appear on their air
plane in those photos
I posted previously? Most of those are gone now Doc told me but I'm sure
he and Dee could give
you the specifics.
Mike C.
Message 16
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Mario,
Just some thoughts...
The majority of Pietenpols only have one tank, either in the wing or in the
fuselage...one fuel tank...one on/off valve. When the engine coughs at 500'
because you have been distracted during your flying and mismanaged your
fuel, the last thing you need is to try to remember which valves need to be
adjusted. If you have a flat-bottomed tank, the water will always be at the
trailing edge as the plane sits overnight, and during your pre-flight.
Whether you choose to have other fuel lines in the other corners is up to
you, just make sure that, from the fuel tank exit point, you have a
positive, downhill flow all the way to the gascolator, so that no water can
collect in any other part of the fuel system while sitting in the tail down
position. That way, at pre-flight, you can drain the fuel tank, and the
gascolator, and know that you have removed all the water.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: About wing tank
--> <mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
Hello,
I try a search, but I do not find anything about what I want to know; so, my
doubt.
I am going to put a wing tank, and I want at least 12 gl of fuel (for 3
hours of flight +-). In the plans, the tank have it bottom in V, for obvious
causes, But I am thinking in a flat bottom inclined to the rear of the wing
with a slug at the very bottom. I don't remember/find the wing "normal"
angle of flight, to see how much angle give to the bottom of the tank
relative to the wing angle; do you understand what I want to do/know?.. may
be you have something to tell me about this.
Thank you.
--------
Mario Giacummo
Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408102#408102
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
Understand, hands on, lets begin with the tank. but.... welded or
riveted?.. no, no.. it's a joke.
regards
Mario Giacummo
2013/9/6 Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
>
> Mario,
>
> Just some thoughts...
>
> The majority of Pietenpols only have one tank, either in the wing or in the
> fuselage...one fuel tank...one on/off valve. When the engine coughs at 500'
> because you have been distracted during your flying and mismanaged your
> fuel, the last thing you need is to try to remember which valves need to be
> adjusted. If you have a flat-bottomed tank, the water will always be at the
> trailing edge as the plane sits overnight, and during your pre-flight.
> Whether you choose to have other fuel lines in the other corners is up to
> you, just make sure that, from the fuel tank exit point, you have a
> positive, downhill flow all the way to the gascolator, so that no water can
> collect in any other part of the fuel system while sitting in the tail down
> position. That way, at pre-flight, you can drain the fuel tank, and the
> gascolator, and know that you have removed all the water.
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:36 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: About wing tank
>
> --> <mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I try a search, but I do not find anything about what I want to know; so,
> my
> doubt.
> I am going to put a wing tank, and I want at least 12 gl of fuel (for 3
> hours of flight +-). In the plans, the tank have it bottom in V, for
> obvious
> causes, But I am thinking in a flat bottom inclined to the rear of the wing
> with a slug at the very bottom. I don't remember/find the wing "normal"
> angle of flight, to see how much angle give to the bottom of the tank
> relative to the wing angle; do you understand what I want to do/know?.. may
> be you have something to tell me about this.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --------
> Mario Giacummo
> Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
> Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408102#408102
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers |
List,
Our BPAN Newsletter Editors Doc & Dee Mosher have a very solid Pietenpol fo
r sale but it isn't on Barnstormers so I thought I would post it here.
This is a VERY LIGHT C65-8. 605lbs. empty. I have reviewed the weight a
nd balance paperwork and this would be one nice flying Pietenpol.
The plane is located in Wisconsin. TT 75 hours including the engine since
overhaul. Can include a Condition Inspection. (Doc is an IA & A&P
and recipient of the prestigious FAA Charles Taylor Master Mechanic Award a
nd was just inducted into the Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame)
$11,000. Contact Doc & Dee Mosher: mosherd@tds.net<mailto:mosherd@tds.n
et> or bpan@tds.net<mailto:bpan@tds.net>
Mike C.
(scroll down for more photos)
[cid:image001.jpg@01CEAAE6.7B7D43D0]
(Photos Courtesy of Bill Church)
Message 19
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Subject: | Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers |
Are those tinted wind screens?
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers
List,
Our BPAN Newsletter Editors Doc & Dee Mosher have a very solid Pietenpol for
sale but it isn't on Barnstormers so I thought I would post it here.
This is a VERY LIGHT C65-8. 605lbs. empty. I have reviewed the weight
and balance paperwork and this would be one nice flying Pietenpol.
The plane is located in Wisconsin. TT 75 hours including the engine since
overhaul. Can include a Condition Inspection. (Doc is an IA & A&P
and recipient of the prestigious FAA Charles Taylor Master Mechanic Award
and was just inducted into the Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame)
$11,000. Contact Doc & Dee Mosher: mosherd@tds.net or bpan@tds.net
Mike C.
(scroll down for more photos)
(Photos Courtesy of Bill Church)
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
A cautionary tale. A former business I flew for had custom fuel tanks. Flat bottom
tanks with fuel pickup and drain at aft end of tank We started getting some
planes that were sputtering due to water in the tank ( mechanics determination)
even though the tank was sumped before each flight. Turns out water was
being trapped in the tank away from the drain on the aircraft that were parked
on an uneven part of the ramp.
Moral of story, it may be best to have the bottom of your tank tilt toward your
drain or park your plane with a little piece of wood under one main so the
condensation settles directly over the drain. We did the stick trick and it
solved the problem.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
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Probably best to avoid using the landing gear for landing as well. You know, to
avoid stress on the gear legs.
I'm kidding, of course - but only half. In general, it is a good idea to only
use things for the purpose that they are designed for. And landing gear usually
is designed to keep the belly of the plane off of the ground. However, if the
landing gear can't handle the occasional application of a 150-200 pound force,
especially up near the top end, I'd say it's not adequately designed and/or
built. Small steps like Rick's have been used successfully and effectively
by many Pietenpol passengers for many years.
Bill C.
Terry wrote:
> I had always been told to avoid using the gear for a step or welding a step onto
a gear leg. Stress on the gear leg.
>
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You don't need a step if you have wire wheels. At least on my plane. I just have
the occasional passenger step on the tire. It is also a non slip surface.
:)
Oops, I just remembered that I also have a door... The tire may not work without
a door. What was I thinking?????????
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
something like this?
--------
Mario Giacummo
Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4
Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408167#408167
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Thanks for clearing that up, Bill.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
I've also got a sight gage like that and love it as well. Any water that winds
up in the wing tank is gonna show up there. Another feel good indication that's
hands free.
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
There's also valved port coming from the top of the header tank,
Tools: could you describe that "valved port" further? Pic or similar AS&A part.
Is it mounted on top of header tank? Thanks Paul
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
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Hi Mario,
I agree that to get 12 gallons in a wing tank that isn't higher than the
standard airfoil will probably need a flat bottom.
With a flat bottom I would be concerned with having just one rear outlet,
even with a large sump. I would also suggest a rear drain and a front
drain, both with large sumps. I like a large sump that so that there will
always be a "head" of fuel by each drain, mine are made from half an old
Russian army canteen turned on it's side and holds almost half a quart and
is nicely streamlined. Sloping the tank bottom to one side isn't a bad idea
either and since most landings are turns to the left, I guess being on the
left side is a good idea.
Whatever you do, be sure the rear drain is the low spot in the three-point
position so any water in the tank will collect there and you can drain it.
Then when you drain your gascolator at the bottom of the whole system, you
should be safe from water problems.
A header tank can help as mentioned, but it does add some complexity and
some weight. A reliable, single wing tank of 12 gallons should certainly be
able to be designed without needing a header tank.
I went overboard and have three drains, which I admit is probably too much,
but it is hard to imagine a scenario where landing with low fuel will cause
a problem.
Douwe
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Subject: | FAA inspector/DAR |
Hey Chris,
IF you can find a DAR in your area with a decent reputation, I'd seriously
consider spending the bucks just so you can get flying before winter.
$.02
Douwe
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
I'll be back with the plane next week... but...
It's a line coming out of the top of the tank, then goes down by the gascolator,
where there's a simple ball valve. If there's head pressure from the wing tank,
it will push any air or gas out the line and just down on the ground. You
could put the valve right on the tank, but when it over flows (when you manually
open the valve) it would get all over the place.
So, when I test it, I have to run enough gas out to account for the volume of fuel
in that little line from the tank to the valve, just a few ounces. If I see
a hesitation in the flow, I know I've purged some air from the top of the header
tank. In my case, the line coming out of the header is on the top, at the
front, where any air would be while it's sitting on the ground, tail low.
It's a very very simple system, with hardware store components. The ball valve
is actually a gas line valve, kinda hard to twist by hand. It's simple 1/4"
copper line plumbing.
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About the weight. Dick determined 2RN was gonna be a bit tail heavy, so that was
also a consideration for a header tank, helped solve that problem. In the
event you do get into the header tank for fuel, it's a matter of I'd rather than
have fuel than optimal balance... which makes sense.
Also have a battery up there, just to keep the radio going for months and months...
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
Thanks Tools. Clear to me now. Sounds like a sound setup. I always wondered how
those were set up. Ill decide whether or not to use that system after looking
at my wing tank capacity and weight and balance needs.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
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Subject: | Re: About wing tank |
You're welcome. I have no idea if it's "normal" or not! It's just how Dick set
up 2RN and I like it. Simple, makes a lot of sense. I also like Mario's idea
of the sump. Again, which may or may not be "normal". I'm still new to this
general aviation thing and cutting your teeth in "experimental" aviation is
several orders of magnitude away from a normal I know nothing about... ya know?!
Sad truth of the matter is that's there's just a lot of ways to mort yourself.
I've come to the conclusion that doing what makes the most sense to YOU (the
user) is probably close to right, as you're more likely to operate in a manner
that is appropriate to your own setup. Still, the more we discuss our own understanding
of shortfalls and such of various methods is invaluable.
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