---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/06/13: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:46 AM - Re: Horiz stab mounting. (Michael Perez) 2. 04:54 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (gliderx5@comcast.net) 3. 05:07 AM - Re: Horiz stab mounting. (tools) 4. 05:14 AM - Re: About wing tank (giacummo) 5. 05:16 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (Jerry Dotson) 6. 05:19 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (tools) 7. 05:21 AM - Re: Welding AN bolts (Chuck Campbell) 8. 05:28 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools) 9. 05:33 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... () 10. 05:33 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools) 11. 05:44 AM - Re: FAA Inspection.... (Chris Rusch) 12. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Horiz stab mounting. (Michael Perez) 13. 05:51 AM - Re: Re: About wing tank (Mario Giacummo) 14. 06:29 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools) 15. 06:57 AM - Specifics N973DS----Pietenpol For Sale $11,000 (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 16. 07:14 AM - Re: About wing tank (Gary Boothe) 17. 08:24 AM - Re: About wing tank (Mario Giacummo) 18. 08:49 AM - Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 19. 09:11 AM - Re: Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers (Gary Boothe) 20. 09:49 AM - Re: About wing tank (nightmare) 21. 10:06 AM - Re: Step (Bill Church) 22. 10:16 AM - Re: Step (AircamperN11MS) 23. 10:22 AM - Re: About wing tank (giacummo) 24. 10:30 AM - Re: Step (jarheadpilot82) 25. 10:56 AM - Re: About wing tank (tools) 26. 02:07 PM - Re: About wing tank (nightmare) 27. 03:58 PM - fuel tank (Douwe Blumberg) 28. 03:59 PM - FAA inspector/DAR (Douwe Blumberg) 29. 04:17 PM - Re: About wing tank (tools) 30. 04:21 PM - Re: fuel tank (tools) 31. 07:06 PM - Re: About wing tank (nightmare) 32. 08:19 PM - Re: About wing tank (tools) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:46:22 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Horiz stab mounting. Tools, attached are a couple pictures showing how I did mine. The first pic ture shows the overall attachment of the horizontal stabilizer to the plane . You will note that it is attached to the longerons up front, with the rud der brackets at the main spar and with the as drawn brackets at the tail po st.- The second picture shows the added support for the main spar attachm ent to rudder brackets and the added plywood for where the nut plates go. ( I always add plywood to the bolt holes in the soft spruce.)- All bolts ar e through...no wood screws. I am not a big fan of having any bolts through the longerons, so I tried to keep that to a minimum throughout the entire b uild. I am also not a big fan of wood screws going into soft spruce.- The plywood "shelf" that the- horizontal stabilizer sits on helps tie it all together.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:40 AM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection.... In my region the FAA told me that they no longer do homebuilt inspections and I would HAVE TO use a DAR. Our DAR is a retired FAA guy that lives 2 hours away and charges around $1500 by the time you figure in his hotel, transportation, food, and his fee. This seems like an FAA retirement fund! Anyway, I kept bugging the MIDO and finally they agreed to inspect my airplane, but only because they were training someone new to the process. It took about 2 hours for the actual inspection. DAR would be a good paying job if you could get it. Malcolm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Rusch" Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:44:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection.... I am patiently waiting for the FAA to come and do my airworthiness inspection......i called over a month and a half ago. I called to see whats up and all i get is that im on the list. Any tips on how to light a fire under these guys? The nice weather is going to be gone and ill have to wait another 6 months. Maybe me whining about it will trigger some psychic vibe and they will call today! -------- NX321LR ON THE FINAL PUSH!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408072#408072 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Horiz stab mounting. From: "tools" Thanks Mike! Man, wish I'd have seen those pics BEFORE I started that repair, would have saved A LOT of headscratching and digging through a bunch of piles of rubble trying to piece together exactly how everything was before. And I only took it apart last week (well, took the stab off months ago when I retrieved the plane, dismantled the damaged area just last week)... Quick question, since you don't have lock nuts, what are you doing to prevent those bolts from backing out? Of course, may not be a big deal since it's so easy to preflight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408132#408132 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "giacummo" I thought about a little one in the nose, and how to use it. One is fill the nose tank with the wing one, and connect the nose one to the gascolator; this option need a vent from the nose tank to the wing one, isn't it? the other option is a 3 way valve that connect the wing, nose and gas colator, one position, wing gascolator, second position, nose gascolator. this one is simpler because I avoid the vent from nose to wing. I think there is no trouble with the second one if avoid conect nose with wing -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408133#408133 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05304_525.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FAA Inspection.... From: "Jerry Dotson" Chris, I called the Birmingham office a few times and finally pushed the guy to estimate when he would come. He said it would probably be a year or more????? I called the DAR in Mobile and 4 days later and $500 he got me in the air. Then the FAA sent one of their people to issue my repairman certificate within just a few days. That was hard to figure out....they could not do the inspection but came right away for that. Go figure. I wanted to save that $500 but I wanted to fly too............... -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408134#408134 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FAA Inspection.... From: "tools" Really? Fifteen hundred bucks?!! Have you considered flying the plane TO HIM to save on the auxillary fees? Just sayin'. When my dad got his Hatz inspected (by the FAA), the guy asked him what all the rubber bands were in the wings, "uh, do you mean the rib stitching?" says dad. Wow... When I got my CFI (via the military competency test, which is nothing more than that, just a simple multiple choice fifty question test from their test question bank) it cost about a hundred fifty bucks to schedule it being administered through a local college since they don't do that anymore. I got my commercial/instrument the same way, military competency test, but then you could walk into a FSDO and take the test for free, only took about 10 minutes of interaction with an inspector (about three of which were for this test, hand it to me, thirty minutes later grade it with the classic punched hole overlay, not a lot of work!). What DO they do? Of course, it's like the old saying goes, just be happy we don't get all the government we pay for... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408135#408135 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:39 AM PST US From: Chuck Campbell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Welding AN bolts John=2C I had a couple of AN bolts welded to a flat 4130 sheet to hold my t ailwheel. The welder did it without any ill effects. Chuck > Date: Thu=2C 5 Sep 2013 07:53:58 -0500 > From: jbfjr@peoplepc.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding AN bolts > > > Pietsters=2C > > I may need to weld some AN bolts to 4130 tubing. What is the plating mat erial on the AN bolts=2C is it zinc chromate or cadmium? Is it hazardous t o weld this stuff=2C and if so=2C how can I remove it before welding? > > Thanks=2C > John Franklin > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > Needville=2C TX > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" Mario, There's a third way to plumb the header tank, like mine is. You don't need to vent the header tank to the wing if you have a vent on the header tank (at it's own level) that you can shut off. That way the wing tank will fill the header until it is full (when fuel runs out the valve), then you close it. It's just like a big bubble in the fuel line on the way to the engine. Like an hour worth of fuel big bubble (it could easily be as small as a gallon I think). You just need to crack open that valve every so often to ensure the header tank is full. It WILL be unless you've drained the wing tank pretty empty or there's a problem. Just put the valve somewhere convenient so it's easy to do on a preflight, not much different than sumping a tank. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408137#408137 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:27 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA Inspection.... 1500 for someone who lives two hours away is robbery. There should be no Hotel, food, etc. The DAR we use charges about 500 usually. That includes a mileage charge for him to drive here from maryland. Why would he need a Hotel anyway? It doesn't take that long. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" Mario, Also, I LIKE the drawing of your idea a lot. I didn't fully understand the little dropped pickup point you did mention. If that were nearly a gallon or two, it would really act like a header tank, especially if baffled well. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408138#408138 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FAA Inspection.... From: "Chris Rusch" I went to the airport last night taxied around a bit and a crowd gathered..."when you gonna fly this thing" i told them i was waiting for the FAA and i got a bunch of laughs.......anyways one of the bystanders is emailing me today a number for the DAR that they used in the past and said it worked out real well. so hopefully soon! -------- NX321LR ON THE FINAL PUSH!! Mitsubishi Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408140#408140 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:34 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Horiz stab mounting. The "T" nuts got the threaded area squeezed ever so slightly before being e poxied in place. I will also add a little lock tite to the threads upon fin al assembly. As you mentioned, easy enough to keep an eye on torque during pre-flight.=0A=0AI also have access back there, so if needed, longer bolts and added lock nuts can be used at a later time.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael Pere z=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:55 AM PST US From: Mario Giacummo Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank Yes, my english vocabulary is short, and sometimes is difficult to write what i think. Thanks and regards Mario Giacummo 2013/9/6 tools > > Mario, > > Also, I LIKE the drawing of your idea a lot. I didn't fully understand > the little dropped pickup point you did mention. If that were nearly a > gallon or two, it would really act like a header tank, especially if > baffled well. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408138#408138 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" Rest assured it wasn't your English Mario! You speak better English than I do ANY language, English included! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408147#408147 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:08 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Specifics N973DS----Pietenpol For Sale $11,000 Here is an excellent write up which gives specific details about Doc & Dee' s Pietenpol. Also, regarding the Strategic Air Command markings that appear on their air plane in those photos I posted previously? Most of those are gone now Doc told me but I'm sure he and Dee could give you the specifics. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:00 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: About wing tank Mario, Just some thoughts... The majority of Pietenpols only have one tank, either in the wing or in the fuselage...one fuel tank...one on/off valve. When the engine coughs at 500' because you have been distracted during your flying and mismanaged your fuel, the last thing you need is to try to remember which valves need to be adjusted. If you have a flat-bottomed tank, the water will always be at the trailing edge as the plane sits overnight, and during your pre-flight. Whether you choose to have other fuel lines in the other corners is up to you, just make sure that, from the fuel tank exit point, you have a positive, downhill flow all the way to the gascolator, so that no water can collect in any other part of the fuel system while sitting in the tail down position. That way, at pre-flight, you can drain the fuel tank, and the gascolator, and know that you have removed all the water. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: About wing tank --> Hello, I try a search, but I do not find anything about what I want to know; so, my doubt. I am going to put a wing tank, and I want at least 12 gl of fuel (for 3 hours of flight +-). In the plans, the tank have it bottom in V, for obvious causes, But I am thinking in a flat bottom inclined to the rear of the wing with a slug at the very bottom. I don't remember/find the wing "normal" angle of flight, to see how much angle give to the bottom of the tank relative to the wing angle; do you understand what I want to do/know?.. may be you have something to tell me about this. Thank you. -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408102#408102 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:04 AM PST US From: Mario Giacummo Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: About wing tank Understand, hands on, lets begin with the tank. but.... welded or riveted?.. no, no.. it's a joke. regards Mario Giacummo 2013/9/6 Gary Boothe > > Mario, > > Just some thoughts... > > The majority of Pietenpols only have one tank, either in the wing or in the > fuselage...one fuel tank...one on/off valve. When the engine coughs at 500' > because you have been distracted during your flying and mismanaged your > fuel, the last thing you need is to try to remember which valves need to be > adjusted. If you have a flat-bottomed tank, the water will always be at the > trailing edge as the plane sits overnight, and during your pre-flight. > Whether you choose to have other fuel lines in the other corners is up to > you, just make sure that, from the fuel tank exit point, you have a > positive, downhill flow all the way to the gascolator, so that no water can > collect in any other part of the fuel system while sitting in the tail down > position. That way, at pre-flight, you can drain the fuel tank, and the > gascolator, and know that you have removed all the water. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of giacummo > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 4:36 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: About wing tank > > --> > > Hello, > > I try a search, but I do not find anything about what I want to know; so, > my > doubt. > I am going to put a wing tank, and I want at least 12 gl of fuel (for 3 > hours of flight +-). In the plans, the tank have it bottom in V, for > obvious > causes, But I am thinking in a flat bottom inclined to the rear of the wing > with a slug at the very bottom. I don't remember/find the wing "normal" > angle of flight, to see how much angle give to the bottom of the tank > relative to the wing angle; do you understand what I want to do/know?.. may > be you have something to tell me about this. > > Thank you. > > -------- > Mario Giacummo > Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 > Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408102#408102 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:02 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers List, Our BPAN Newsletter Editors Doc & Dee Mosher have a very solid Pietenpol fo r sale but it isn't on Barnstormers so I thought I would post it here. This is a VERY LIGHT C65-8. 605lbs. empty. I have reviewed the weight a nd balance paperwork and this would be one nice flying Pietenpol. The plane is located in Wisconsin. TT 75 hours including the engine since overhaul. Can include a Condition Inspection. (Doc is an IA & A&P and recipient of the prestigious FAA Charles Taylor Master Mechanic Award a nd was just inducted into the Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame) $11,000. Contact Doc & Dee Mosher: mosherd@tds.net or bpan@tds.net Mike C. (scroll down for more photos) [cid:image001.jpg@01CEAAE6.7B7D43D0] (Photos Courtesy of Bill Church) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:31 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers Are those tinted wind screens? Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol for Sale---not on Barnstormers List, Our BPAN Newsletter Editors Doc & Dee Mosher have a very solid Pietenpol for sale but it isn't on Barnstormers so I thought I would post it here. This is a VERY LIGHT C65-8. 605lbs. empty. I have reviewed the weight and balance paperwork and this would be one nice flying Pietenpol. The plane is located in Wisconsin. TT 75 hours including the engine since overhaul. Can include a Condition Inspection. (Doc is an IA & A&P and recipient of the prestigious FAA Charles Taylor Master Mechanic Award and was just inducted into the Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame) $11,000. Contact Doc & Dee Mosher: mosherd@tds.net or bpan@tds.net Mike C. (scroll down for more photos) (Photos Courtesy of Bill Church) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "nightmare" A cautionary tale. A former business I flew for had custom fuel tanks. Flat bottom tanks with fuel pickup and drain at aft end of tank We started getting some planes that were sputtering due to water in the tank ( mechanics determination) even though the tank was sumped before each flight. Turns out water was being trapped in the tank away from the drain on the aircraft that were parked on an uneven part of the ramp. Moral of story, it may be best to have the bottom of your tank tilt toward your drain or park your plane with a little piece of wood under one main so the condensation settles directly over the drain. We did the stick trick and it solved the problem. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408162#408162 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Step From: "Bill Church" Probably best to avoid using the landing gear for landing as well. You know, to avoid stress on the gear legs. I'm kidding, of course - but only half. In general, it is a good idea to only use things for the purpose that they are designed for. And landing gear usually is designed to keep the belly of the plane off of the ground. However, if the landing gear can't handle the occasional application of a 150-200 pound force, especially up near the top end, I'd say it's not adequately designed and/or built. Small steps like Rick's have been used successfully and effectively by many Pietenpol passengers for many years. Bill C. Terry wrote: > I had always been told to avoid using the gear for a step or welding a step onto a gear leg. Stress on the gear leg. > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408165#408165 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Step From: "AircamperN11MS" You don't need a step if you have wire wheels. At least on my plane. I just have the occasional passenger step on the tire. It is also a non slip surface. :) Oops, I just remembered that I also have a door... The tire may not work without a door. What was I thinking????????? -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408166#408166 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "giacummo" something like this? -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408167#408167 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc05309_130.jpg ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Step From: "jarheadpilot82" Thanks for clearing that up, Bill. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408169#408169 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" I've also got a sight gage like that and love it as well. Any water that winds up in the wing tank is gonna show up there. Another feel good indication that's hands free. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408170#408170 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "nightmare" There's also valved port coming from the top of the header tank, Tools: could you describe that "valved port" further? Pic or similar AS&A part. Is it mounted on top of header tank? Thanks Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408180#408180 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:01 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank Hi Mario, I agree that to get 12 gallons in a wing tank that isn't higher than the standard airfoil will probably need a flat bottom. With a flat bottom I would be concerned with having just one rear outlet, even with a large sump. I would also suggest a rear drain and a front drain, both with large sumps. I like a large sump that so that there will always be a "head" of fuel by each drain, mine are made from half an old Russian army canteen turned on it's side and holds almost half a quart and is nicely streamlined. Sloping the tank bottom to one side isn't a bad idea either and since most landings are turns to the left, I guess being on the left side is a good idea. Whatever you do, be sure the rear drain is the low spot in the three-point position so any water in the tank will collect there and you can drain it. Then when you drain your gascolator at the bottom of the whole system, you should be safe from water problems. A header tank can help as mentioned, but it does add some complexity and some weight. A reliable, single wing tank of 12 gallons should certainly be able to be designed without needing a header tank. I went overboard and have three drains, which I admit is probably too much, but it is hard to imagine a scenario where landing with low fuel will cause a problem. Douwe ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:05 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA inspector/DAR Hey Chris, IF you can find a DAR in your area with a decent reputation, I'd seriously consider spending the bucks just so you can get flying before winter. $.02 Douwe ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" I'll be back with the plane next week... but... It's a line coming out of the top of the tank, then goes down by the gascolator, where there's a simple ball valve. If there's head pressure from the wing tank, it will push any air or gas out the line and just down on the ground. You could put the valve right on the tank, but when it over flows (when you manually open the valve) it would get all over the place. So, when I test it, I have to run enough gas out to account for the volume of fuel in that little line from the tank to the valve, just a few ounces. If I see a hesitation in the flow, I know I've purged some air from the top of the header tank. In my case, the line coming out of the header is on the top, at the front, where any air would be while it's sitting on the ground, tail low. It's a very very simple system, with hardware store components. The ball valve is actually a gas line valve, kinda hard to twist by hand. It's simple 1/4" copper line plumbing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408183#408183 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank From: "tools" About the weight. Dick determined 2RN was gonna be a bit tail heavy, so that was also a consideration for a header tank, helped solve that problem. In the event you do get into the header tank for fuel, it's a matter of I'd rather than have fuel than optimal balance... which makes sense. Also have a battery up there, just to keep the radio going for months and months... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408184#408184 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "nightmare" Thanks Tools. Clear to me now. Sounds like a sound setup. I always wondered how those were set up. Ill decide whether or not to use that system after looking at my wing tank capacity and weight and balance needs. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408186#408186 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: About wing tank From: "tools" You're welcome. I have no idea if it's "normal" or not! It's just how Dick set up 2RN and I like it. Simple, makes a lot of sense. I also like Mario's idea of the sump. Again, which may or may not be "normal". I'm still new to this general aviation thing and cutting your teeth in "experimental" aviation is several orders of magnitude away from a normal I know nothing about... ya know?! Sad truth of the matter is that's there's just a lot of ways to mort yourself. I've come to the conclusion that doing what makes the most sense to YOU (the user) is probably close to right, as you're more likely to operate in a manner that is appropriate to your own setup. Still, the more we discuss our own understanding of shortfalls and such of various methods is invaluable. 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