---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/18/13: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:42 AM - unequal weights (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 04:37 AM - Re: coaming and sharp edges (womenfly2) 3. 07:14 AM - round tube wing struts (giacummo) 4. 08:03 AM - Re: First Post (V Groah) 5. 08:12 AM - Re: First Post (AircamperN11MS) 6. 08:47 AM - Re: round tube wing struts (bdewenter) 7. 10:31 AM - a neat idea from John Egan (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 8. 11:39 AM - Re: First Post (taildrags) 9. 02:48 PM - Re: round tube wing struts (Bill Church) 10. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: round tube wing struts (Mario Giacummo) 11. 05:39 PM - New Engine to replace Corvair (John Francis) 12. 05:47 PM - Re: New Engine to replace Corvair (Jack) 13. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: First Post (David) 14. 07:39 PM - Re: New Engine to replace Corvair (Ken Bickers) 15. 08:23 PM - Re: Re: First Post (Michael Groah) 16. 09:08 PM - Re: Re: First Post (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:40 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: unequal weights I've also noticed my plane weighs unequally fore and aft. the tail is heavier than the nose ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: coaming and sharp edges From: "womenfly2" At a high velocity impact any hard object (your head) impacting a very narrow edge with very low surface area will make that edge cut through plastic , rubber or any soft material. The best thing to do is to gave that edge more surface area like hemming it (folding it back on itself) or cover the edge with an small diameter aluminum tube to increase the surface area. A material it will not cut through. This will allow the material in back of the edge to act as a crumble zone an absorb the energy. The padding over it will help too. Best to sit in your plane belted in and see were the danger areas are by moving your body as if your were in a crash. Then you will have a good idea of what areas your head and body may contact thus adding some protection there. Just my thoughts ~ WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408780#408780 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:27 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: round tube wing struts From: "giacummo" Hello folks, to vary a question about the subject. I am going to use round tubes for the wing struts, of course I search and read everything I can, the replace option for the streaming ones used in the Piet are round tube with OD = 1 3/4" and 1.2 mm wall thikness (I do not remember where I found this). now the question is other, I was looking the photo attached here and I plan to do something like that, but something is not very clear, as I see in the strut is an .. aluminium? block, and a bolt holding it.. just one bolt?. .. of what diameter? A4 or A5?... the other question is how long is the inside piece? is this piece threaded?.. and the diameter of the D2 bolt ? (i do not know how to name it).. Thank you in advance -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408783#408783 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/lower_strut_fork_end_002_108_693.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:54 AM PST US From: V Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First Post Dave=2C There is a nice group of west coast Piet folks=2C most current builders=2C a great support group. There is an annual gathering and fly in at Frazier lake air park the first saturday in June each year. a great place to get in formation and fellowship. Welcome to the group=2C looking forward to your participation. Vic Tulare Ca NX414MV From: catdesigns@att.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First Post Awesome! Another California Pietenpol builder. Chris Sacramento=2C Ca Westcoastpiet.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Sent: Tuesday=2C September 17=2C 2013 11:15 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Post Hi All=2C I am new to the list and just want to say Hi! I received my plans from Andrew yesterday and am getting as much info as po ssible. One thing I did notice was that the balance info on the plans indicates one side is heavier than the other. I don=92t recall which side and by how muc h=2C but I thought it interesting in light of the thread on this topic. Anyway=2C enough for now. Kind Regards=2C Dave Thursby (Simi Valley=2C CA) href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post From: "AircamperN11MS" Welcome Dave, I have a piet in Lancaster and there are a few others near by. You are welcome to come up and see mine anytime you wish. There is a lot of knowledge within this group. My wife grew up in Simi and went to Royal High. In fact she is going down today to visit with her mother. Welcome aboard and enjoy the flight, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408785#408785 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:34 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: round tube wing struts From: "bdewenter" Mario, I hope this helps. You might have to fix the links if they were broken onto multiple lines. I beleive what you are looking at is from Don Helsper. D2 is a J-3 cub WING STRUT ADJUSTMENT FORK FAA/PMA'd. J-3 & PA-11. Replacement for 13770-00. Includes bolt, nut, cotter pin & jam nut. Measures 5/16" bolt hole. Measures 7/16" x 20 thread NF3. It can be seen here http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/strutadjfbsets1.php?clickkey=394462 The insert in the aluminum strut is a part from McMaster carr. It is either 7075 or 6061 aluminum stock that is flat on each side This next paragraph is a post on this forum from dan Helsper and explains the insert. quote... Larry Williams has been flying his airplane with the aluminum Skytech struts for years now. These are the same ones I put on my airplane. Advantage is less weight. If you don't want to attempt welding these (which I didn't) you have to insert and attach the end fittings with AN bolts. I used 7075 aluminum rectangular bar stock for the end fittings McMaster Carr Supply # 9055K13 $48.38 for 3 lineal feet. Worked great. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408786#408786 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:43 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: a neat idea from John Egan I had the pleasure of catching up with Pietenpol builder John Egan during t he Piet fly-in at Brodhead and he's not only making good progress in his shop but passing along good ideas like thi s one by submitting them to Sport Aviation where this one appeared in the August, 2013 issue. My Uncle Tony Bingeli s would be proud John........ Mike C. in Ohio [cid:image001.png@01CEB473.56F88790] ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post From: "taildrags" Vic- For the West Coast fly-in, the first Saturday in June 2014 is the 7th. Is that the correct date for Frazier Lake? I want to make it next year for sure. It's about 430 miles for me and Scout... a long day, probably 3 intermediate fuel stops and 4 hops that I'll make on Friday the 6th so as to have the full day there on Saturday. If I get hung up in weather, I may need to make it part-way on Friday and then arrive sometime mid-morning on Saturday. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408793#408793 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: round tube wing struts From: "Bill Church" Mario, I assume you are talking about using chro-moly steel (4130) round tube, and not aluminum tube. The streamline tubing in the photo is an extruded aluminum shape. It is not recommended to weld aluminum that is to be used as a structural member, as it can significantly weaken the metal in the weld zone. That is the reason why there is an aluminum block inside, secured with bolts. When using steel, you have the advantage of being able to weld without compromising the strength of the tube. For the inner threaded part, you can purchase wing strut barrels http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/strutadjfbsets3.php?clickkey=3621 (Aircraft Spruce part no 05-05900), which can be welded into the ends of your steel tube struts. One point to consider, when using round tubes for your struts is that they will create a lot of drag. Round struts really are not aerodynamically "clean". You should give serious thought about adding some kind of fairings to streamline the tubes. Hope that helps. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408807#408807 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:03 PM PST US From: Mario Giacummo Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: round tube wing struts Bill, thank you for your response, I know about the drag, so I am going to do this http://vgmk1.blogspot.com/search?q=aerodinamisacion and of course, steel tube, I do not know what by the moment, I do not want to repeat things about availability of anything here. anything in its moment. Thank you very much, regards. Mario Giacummo 2013/9/18 Bill Church > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Mario, > I assume you are talking about using chro-moly steel (4130) round tube, > and not aluminum tube. The streamline tubing in the photo is an extruded > aluminum shape. It is not recommended to weld aluminum that is to be used > as a structural member, as it can significantly weaken the metal in the > weld zone. That is the reason why there is an aluminum block inside, > secured with bolts. When using steel, you have the advantage of being able > to weld without compromising the strength of the tube. For the inner > threaded part, you can purchase wing strut barrels > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/strutadjfbsets3.php?clickkey=3621 > (Aircraft Spruce part no 05-05900), which can be welded into the ends of > your steel tube struts. > One point to consider, when using round tubes for your struts is that they > will create a lot of drag. Round struts really are not aerodynamically > "clean". You should give serious thought about adding some kind of > fairings to streamline the tubes. > Hope that helps. > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408807#408807 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Engine to replace Corvair From: "John Francis" My new engine showed up today to replace the Corvair I was originally going to install. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408819#408819 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_1135018178_353.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Engine to replace Corvair From: Jack That should help your CG problem! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Sep 18, 2013, at 7:39 PM, "John Francis" wrote: > > My new engine showed up today to replace the Corvair I was originally going to install. > > -------- > John Francis > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408819#408819 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_1135018178_353.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:33 PM PST US From: "David" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post Thanks everyone for the kind welcome. We will be sure to check out the gathering in June next year. I am working on the Bingelis books on eBay, and have been trying to acquire a Corvair engine. This will be a long term project for the kids and I (there's 5 of them) and we are also building a 1/5 scale RC model as well. One initial question about wood - I have read that Douglas Fir can be used as an alternative to Spruce. Is this a reasonable assumption? If so, can someone point me towards a suitable source, preferably on the West Coast? To foster some enthusiasm with the kids I'd like to get a few wing ribs done - even if they end up on the wall as decoration - and I'm prepared to use the construction of these as a learning and bonding experience (pun intended). Thanks again, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post Welcome Dave, I have a piet in Lancaster and there are a few others near by. You are welcome to come up and see mine anytime you wish. There is a lot of knowledge within this group. My wife grew up in Simi and went to Royal High. In fact she is going down today to visit with her mother. Welcome aboard and enjoy the flight, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408785#408785 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:41 PM PST US From: Ken Bickers Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Engine to replace Corvair And should swing a nice long prop. On Sep 18, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Jack wrote: > > That should help your CG problem! > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > > On Sep 18, 2013, at 7:39 PM, "John Francis" wrote: > >> >> My new engine showed up today to replace the Corvair I was originally going to install. >> >> -------- >> John Francis >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408819#408819 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_1135018178_353.jpg > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:44 PM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post Oscar,- Yes the gathering will be on the 7th this coming year.-- If y ou get hung up with weather or decide to do it in two days there are a few Pietenpol people from Northern California who came this year and will proba bly come again.- Perhaps you could meet up with one or some of them and h ead down together.- =0A=0A-I'm looking forward to meeting you, and Scou t, in person at the gathering!=0A=0AMike Groah=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________ __________________=0A From: taildrags =0ATo: pietenp ol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:39 AM=0ASub ject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post=0A =0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message po sted by: "taildrags" =0A=0AVic-=0A=0AFor the West Co ast fly-in, the first Saturday in June 2014 is the 7th.- Is that the corr ect date for Frazier Lake?- I want to make it next year for sure.- It's about 430 miles for me and Scout... a long day, probably 3 intermediate fu el stops and 4 hops that I'll make on Friday the 6th so as to have the full day there on Saturday.- If I get hung up in weather, I may need to make it part-way on Friday and then arrive sometime mid-morning on Saturday.=0A =0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga=0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout&qu ot;=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://foru =============== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:19 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post Dave, Welcome! My Piet is in Lincoln (LHM), just northeast of Sacramento. It is built mostly with Poplar, some of which I purchased from my local big box aircraft supply store (Lowe's); but the longer pieces were purchased from a local hardwood and flooring store. It's easiest when you can find a local supplier and hand pick your pieces. Chances are, you could even go to your local lumber supply, tell them you want clear, vertical grain boards (don't say it's for an airplane), and they will be able to get it for you. AC43.13 allows Doug Fir as a direct substitute, even allowing for lesser dimensions as the wood is stronger than spruce. Contact me off list, if you wish to discuss suitable grain. Gboothe5@comcast.net. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 6:33 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post Thanks everyone for the kind welcome. We will be sure to check out the gathering in June next year. I am working on the Bingelis books on eBay, and have been trying to acquire a Corvair engine. This will be a long term project for the kids and I (there's 5 of them) and we are also building a 1/5 scale RC model as well. One initial question about wood - I have read that Douglas Fir can be used as an alternative to Spruce. Is this a reasonable assumption? If so, can someone point me towards a suitable source, preferably on the West Coast? To foster some enthusiasm with the kids I'd like to get a few wing ribs done - even if they end up on the wall as decoration - and I'm prepared to use the construction of these as a learning and bonding experience (pun intended). Thanks again, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Post Welcome Dave, I have a piet in Lancaster and there are a few others near by. You are welcome to come up and see mine anytime you wish. There is a lot of knowledge within this group. My wife grew up in Simi and went to Royal High. In fact she is going down today to visit with her mother. Welcome aboard and enjoy the flight, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408785#408785 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.