---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/25/13: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:19 AM - Re: side project (Ralph) 2. 07:51 AM - Re: side project (Barry Davis) 3. 01:37 PM - steel tube fuselage tacked (nightmare) 4. 01:50 PM - Re: steel tube fuselage tacked (AircamperN11MS) 5. 02:47 PM - Re: side project (Michael Weston) 6. 02:52 PM - Re: steel tube fuselage tacked (nightmare) 7. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked (Ken Bickers) 8. 03:35 PM - Re: just right--- 85 years running (regchief) 9. 03:35 PM - Re: just right--- 85 years running (regchief) 10. 04:04 PM - Re: steel tube fuselage tacked (bdewenter) 11. 04:21 PM - Mitchell airspeed ind. (John Core) 12. 05:42 PM - A modest proposal (Joe Street) 13. 06:01 PM - Re: steel tube fuselage tacked (nightmare) 14. 07:22 PM - Re: steel tube fuselage tacked (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 15. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: just right--- 85 years running (Ken Bickers) 16. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked (Ken Bickers) 17. 11:05 PM - Re: A modest proposal (tools) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:43 AM PST US From: "Ralph" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side project High Mileage Vehicles in Burnsville, MN built the Freeway in 1979 =93 1981. They built about 700 units. I have a 1981. The front suspension is a torque tube arrangement. Google =9CFreeway=9D to get a look. Ralph ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:45 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: side project Douwe I have a set of Grove alum landing gear taking up room in my shop. I would take a couple of hundred bucks for it and you could cut it up as needed. If you are interested, I can take measurements and some pictures to send you. I think it would ship UPS with no problem. Barry Davis NX973BP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: side project Hey all, For fun, I'm building an experimental high-mileage vehicle. It'll be a motor powered recumbent trike type of thing with an aerodynamic fairing. I'm trying to figure out a simple, low profile front suspension (two steering wheels in front). The thing won't go faster than 50mpg so it doesn't need to be great, just sturdy. I got to thinking of a flat spring aluminum plate that would have some spring in it, kind of like a Cessna gear and wondered if anyone knew anything about how to get spring temper in a thick aluminum plate/bar? Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: steel tube fuselage tacked From: "nightmare" Update on latest progress. Finished tack welding my fuselage today. If curious, it weighs 33 lbs. Hard to get real accurate weight comparison, at this point, to the wood fuselage because some steel needs to be taken off and some steel added. Need to cut: top longeron where front door goes. About 1 foot of Tail post. Kept on for ease of keeping alignment. Need to add: many tabs for attaching ply, instrument panel... Finish weld will add weight. No need for side ply with steel fuselage. Also, fuselage reinforcement of right side for door adds weight. How do you think this compares with the weight of the wood version? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409219#409219 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/20130925_143312_566.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:31 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked From: "AircamperN11MS" Paul, It looks great. congratulations. Keep up the good work. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409221#409221 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:24 PM PST US From: Michael Weston Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side project hi douwe, mike weston here. if you go into eaa magazine archives and look at ed lesher's "teal" you will see he used 7075 T-6 plate for gear legs. the dimensions are shown in the three view drawing. this aluminum can be used as is for monoleaf type springs. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked From: "nightmare" Thanks Scott. Just remembered I still need to add the "v" back support behind both seats and a diagonal at firewall. Also question: on supp plans of wood fuselage it shows 7 7/8 rear instrument panel width and 6 1/4 front panel width. Is this plenty wide enough for standard instruments? And should I do the front width same as back if planning on instruments up there too? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409226#409226 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked From: Ken Bickers Paul, the deepest instruments are generally radios, Instruments that are used for IFR conditions tend to be deeper than slip-skid balls and pitot-static instruments. So the answer to your question depends on what instruments and radios you want in the front, rear, or both panels. A simple setup doesn't require anything deeper than what is called out in the plans. Have fun with this, Ken On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:52 PM, nightmare wrote: > pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> > > Thanks Scott. Just remembered I still need to add the "v" back support > behind both seats and a diagonal at firewall. > Also question: on supp plans of wood fuselage it shows 7 7/8 rear > instrument panel width and 6 1/4 front panel width. Is this plenty wide > enough for standard instruments? And should I do the front width same as > back if planning on instruments up there too? > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409226#409226 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: just right--- 85 years running From: "regchief" Hope your staying high and dry, Ken. I have seen a lot of the pictures our Civil air patrol crews took, and it looks bad. Unfortunately, I didn't get to fly as my allergies have been awful this month. Kelly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409229#409229 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: just right--- 85 years running From: "regchief" Hope your staying high and dry, Ken. I have seen a lot of the pictures our Civil air patrol crews took, and it looks bad. Unfortunately, I didn't get to fly as my allergies have been awful this month. Kelly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409230#409230 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked From: "bdewenter" Paul, Looks very nice! -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409231#409231 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mitchell airspeed ind. From: John Core The writer is seeking info on a Mitchell airspeed ind a West German inst which runs off a vacuum the problem I'm having is a 2 inch venturi is to big giving me ten mph high plus reading,what venturi should I be using and where can I get it? Thanks ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:38 PM PST US From: Joe Street Subject: Pietenpol-List: A modest proposal Hello all. I have an idea today and if it has been proposed already please forgive me, but I was thinking about the US mail service transcontinental airmail beacon route which was opened on September 08,1920. The route consisted of huge concrete arrows every 10mi with a 50 ft tower and a bright beacon light to assist airmail planes to navigate in poor visibility. The completion of this route meant that mail could cross the continent in from Crissy field in San Fran to Hazelhurst field Long Island, in about 30 hours rather than 10 days by pony express. In the 1940's the commerce department decommissioned the beacons and the steel was used in the war effort but the concrete arrows remain to this day. It occurred to me that Sept 2020 marks 100 years since the air route opened and I thought that it would be a good excuse to make a continental journey in a vintage type aircraft following the arrows to commemorate the creation of the system. Perhaps a little early to start the discussion but perhaps not. In any case as a Canadian it would be pointless for me to try to get some interest and perhaps financial backing for such an undertaking myself, but if some intrepid young man to the south of me was to take up the torch I think it would be very cool and an adventure of a lifetime to tag along in my own Piet. http://airmailpioneers.org/history/Sagahistoryairway.htm Any interest? Comments? Joe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked From: "nightmare" i would also like to point out a mistake i made but fortunately caught and fixed after this photo. notice behind the aft seat, the diagonals along the top that tie the left and right sides together should be going in the opposite direction of the diagonals on the bottom. was easy to fix since they were just tack welded. just reverse directioned the two top diagonals. I failed to notice on the plans that the drawing of bottom of fuselage were viewed from the bottom, and drawing of top of fuselage are viewed from above. wood plans are identical with the exception of having 3 diagonals instead of 3. thought it was worth pointing out , looked at those plans many hours and never noticed. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409239#409239 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Paul, I happened to weigh my wood long fuselage with seats and floor plywood. It weighs exactly 50 pounds. Once you get those installed you will have something to compare. I see a lot of weight savings by not having the plywood on the sides. 2'x8' 1/8 ply weighs about 10 lbs times two sides. I plan on compensating for that with more horsepower, diet and exercise. Seats weren't finished in the picture but the parts were placed on top fir the weighing. The are to be installed later. Sorry about the picture size. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409247#409247 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_846.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: just right--- 85 years running From: Ken Bickers Kelly (and others), thanks. As it turned out, we were fine. Our home sits on a rise just to the north of a golf course in northwest Longmont. We stayed dry throughout but had a front row seat for much of the worst flooding in the city. The major waterway through Longmont, the St Vrain, jumped its banks and, in effect, made a new river bed about a half mile to the north. The river was a mile wide as it entered Longmont. It surged through and across a neighborhood just west of the gold course that we overlook, completely engulfing the golf course, and then exiting through yet another neighborhood to the south of the golf course. Those neighborhoods have been devastated. I suspect that many of the homes will be total losses. All of them have serious E Coli contamination from the failure of all of the upstream waste water treatment facilities and many septic systems. Friday night during the midst of the flooding we had the windows open and were surprised at a constant low throbbing roar. It was the water surging across the golf course. While in a strange way it was nice to have riverfront views, it was even nicer when the water was finally returned to its regular channel. The Corp of Army Engineers and the City worked hard at making that happen. Lots of roads and bridges have reopened. Many, however, are simply gone. The only means currently for people living between Longmont/Loveland and Estes Park (e.g., in Lyons, Pinewood Springs, Glen Haven,Storm Mountain, etc.) to get to the outside world is by helicopter. No roads are now functional in that area and may not be for weeks or perhaps in some cases months. Fortunately, the flood control systems at the Longmont airport worked as designed, helped no doubt by the fact that the St Vrain chose to shift its channel to the north. Had it shifted the channel to the south, the flood controls at the airport would have been overwhelmed. So by a twist of fate, my Piet project and Pacer stayed dry and safe. Again we were mostly unaffected except for the many detours and traffic delays, which seem pretty trivial compared to what many others have been facing. Again thanks, Ken On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 4:35 PM, regchief wrote: > > Hope your staying high and dry, Ken. I have seen a lot of the pictures our > Civil air patrol crews took, and it looks bad. Unfortunately, I didn't get > to fly as my allergies have been awful this month. > > Kelly > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409230#409230 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube fuselage tacked From: Ken Bickers Looks good, Curt. Ken On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:22 PM, curtdm(at)gmail.com wrote: > curtdm@gmail.com> > > Paul, > > I happened to weigh my wood long fuselage with seats and floor plywood. It > weighs exactly 50 pounds. Once you get those installed you will have > something to compare. I see a lot of weight savings by not having the > plywood on the sides. 2'x8' 1/8 ply weighs about 10 lbs times two sides. I > plan on compensating for that with more horsepower, diet and exercise. > > Seats weren't finished in the picture but the parts were placed on top fir > the weighing. The are to be installed later. > > Sorry about the picture size. > > -------- > Curt Merdan > Flower Mound, TX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409247#409247 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_846.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A modest proposal From: "tools" My dad sent me a link about the big concrete arrows not too long ago and I had the same idea. However, most of the arrows are gone from civilization... there's still a bunch of them in the boon docks, mostly out west from what I can gather. I was unable to really tell if it's documented well enough that the route could be flown anyway. Of course, much of it transverses airspace that I can't go without a transponder or radio... Anyway, I can fix, I can build, I can fly... but organization is NO WHERE to be found in anything about me... I got nothing. I would be interested in joining some sort of effort to fly legs, whatever. Help identify parts near where I live, or something. As soon as I learned about these things, I thought it would be so cool to fly that route. Sort of a route 66 for old airplanes sort of thing. Interested to see if there's much other interest. 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