Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:15 AM - Drilling troubles (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: Drilling troubles (aerocarjake)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: Drilling troubles (GNflyer)
4. 09:31 AM - Re: Drilling troubles (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
5. 09:38 AM - Re: NX308MB Finally Up Again!! (AircamperN11MS)
6. 12:27 PM - Re: Drilling troubles (jarheadpilot82)
7. 12:30 PM - Re: Welding control horns... (Bill Church)
8. 12:48 PM - Re: Welding control horns... (dwilson)
9. 12:50 PM - Re: Drilling troubles (tools)
10. 12:55 PM - Re: Welding control horns... (jarheadpilot82)
11. 12:56 PM - Re: Drilling troubles (tools)
12. 05:18 PM - Re: Welding control horns... (aerocarjake)
13. 06:17 PM - Windshield thickness (Rick)
14. 06:52 PM - Re: Drilling troubles (tkreiner)
15. 07:42 PM - Re: Windshield thickness (Gary Boothe)
16. 08:17 PM - Re: Windshield thickness (Rick Schreiber)
17. 08:30 PM - Re: Windshield thickness (Gary Boothe)
18. 08:32 PM - Re: Windshield thickness (Kip and Beth Gardner)
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| Subject: | Drilling troubles |
Can anyone suggest a good drill press and hand drill? Neither of my tools seem
to be able to drill a nice hole. Both seem to have a little wobble in their
spindle that gets exaggerated thru the chuck and thru the bit. I've had both
chucks off and verified the wobble in the spindles.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412135#412135
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling troubles |
Hi Curt..... I like my Rigid brand drill press. (although I also have a real small
benchtop drill press from Harbor Freight(!) which works great for little parts)
All my hand drill drivers are either Milwaukee or Dewalt. They work real
well. (i have chosen NOT to go with air tools). All my bits are cobalt - from
a machine tool distributor - WAY better than a normal drill bits although fairly
pricey. Best way for real important holes is drill undersize and then do
the final hole with a carbide reamer. I only bought a 3/16", 1/4" and 5/16" which
should be all the precision holes I need...? Hope this helps........
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling troubles |
Well if it's one of the typical harbor freight category you could pick up your
trusty rubber mallet and smack that sucker. through trial and error I have corrected
one some by persevering with some good old fashioned discipline. kinda
like some kids at times- a talking doesn't always do much good but a little massage
to the seat of the pants can bring them around. a whack or 2 and keep spinning
it with a drill bit or straight rod to indicate where the wobble is may
get you some results. they tend to have a tapered shaft and you can probably
get some movement there. Raymond
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling troubles |
Raymond, I've tried a little manual influence without any positive results. I'm
going to try it again with a little more oomph and a grunt.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412138#412138
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| Subject: | Re: NX308MB Finally Up Again!! |
Well, congratulations Gary. The flight looked beautiful and the plane looked rock
solid. Now what are you going to do with your free time? Oh yea, you were
going to start your own Skunk Works factory. Looks like a good time to get
that going. Looking forward to seeing the Piet in June.
Happy Landings,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling troubles |
Curt,
I have found the EAA videos great sources for advice on things like wobbly drill
bits, Like this video-
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1786860478001
Hope it helps.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412143#412143
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| Subject: | Re: Welding control horns... |
Jake,
Nice work. Always feels good to accomplish what you set out to do.
But, for the record, the welded channel idea wasn't mine. I just copied an idea
I saw somewhere.
Bill C.
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| Subject: | Re: Welding control horns... |
Ken Perkins displayed a set of horns at Brodhead several years ago that used the
channel. He also demonstrated how to form the leading edge of the horns. Like
Bill, I also latched on to that idea. Nothing like Pietenpol people for sharing
construction methods.
Dan
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling troubles |
What kind of drilling are you having problems with? I'm assuming holes in sheet
metal...
As for drill presses, it's kinda rare to find one that doesn't work well... I've
had DOZENS of them from $80 Delta branded asian imports, older Thai imports,
scads of light old american made ones, and even more heavy industrial ones.
Honestly, the simple cheap ones seem to work just as good as the really really
expensive ones.
You might just have a lemon. If it's got a bent spindle, could try fixing it (not
as difficult as it might sound), you really only need a way to roll it around
on something pretty flat to find the bend, and a cheap hydraulic press.
You said you found wobble in the spindle. That would indicate a bent spindle.
If you meant runout, could just be a bad bearing. MOST newer drill press bearings
are gonna be under twenty bucks. However, runout can come from a loose
spindle, or loose uppy and downy part. If the uppy and downy part is loose in
the drill press head, that's a more difficult fix. A marginal fix is to party
lock it with the spindle lock mechanism to at least keep it still.
As for hand drills, depends on what you're drilling. I've found my trusty old
Milwaukee hole shooter to be SUPER durable and capable of withstanding HUGE amounts
of abuse, however, it's slow... not great for sheet metal. My waaay cheaper
Hitachi 3/8 drill spins at 1500 rpm, three times faster than the Milwaukee
(and most 1/2" drills) and works great for small bits, sheet metal, pocket screw
hole drilling, etc.
My dad had a hard time with triangle holes in sheet metal when building his Hatz,
he eventually switched to air drills for just that reason. They're even faster
than the 1500 rpm Hitachi. If you don't want air tools, could consider an
electric die grinder with a small chuck on it.
I whole heartedly agree with using a smaller bit, then reaming for REALLY round
holes. The other good way to do it is just chuck it up in a mill and use a end
cutting bit. They make perfectly round holes. Many machinists don't use drill
presses at all, do all they're drilling in a mill. Easy to position, NO
runout or wobble, lots of speeds available.
Lastly is the drill bit. SHARP is important. Good ones are definitely a plus.
I prefer 135 degree points over 118 degree points for sheet metal. Four flute
sharpening works great for drilling without pilot holes or center punches.
Which brings up the point of center drilling. Put a really small hole where you
want the hole, then ANY drill will work WAAY better. The very middle of drill
bits (the aris or something?) scrape, they don't cut. So if you drill a pilot
hole the lager bit doesn't have to do any scraping, only cutting. I keep
a supply of carbide 1/16, 1/8 and 1/4 bits on hand for this. The carbide bits
cut SO EASILY, but they break easily...
Hope this helps.
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| Subject: | Re: Welding control horns... |
Jake,
The pictures are a great help. especially the walking beam. Nicely done!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling troubles |
Oh ya, cobalt bits. They're coated and do work better. It's got to do with reducing
the amount of force required at the point of cutting and scraping. However,
you lose that advantage as soon as you sharpen the bit as you grind the
coating off.
Another however is that a bit worthy of coating, is usually made better than one
not worth coating, so even after sharpening, it's likely a better bit than a
non coated one.
However (yet again), a really good american made high speed steel (definitely avoid
plain carbon steel drills) bit that isn't coated, is probably better than
a cheap import bit that is...
The most economical source of bits is machine shops, they usually have good ones
and don't bother to sharpen, and then learn to sharpen...
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| Subject: | Re: Welding control horns... |
Good comments - thanks..... I talked with a lot of folks today and to avoid any
future corrosion issues, I will weld in a "bushing" at the clevis end of each
of these parts - so they will be completely sealed........... so they're not
quite done yet - arghhh
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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| Subject: | Windshield thickness |
I am building a 3 panel flybaby style windshield for my Piet. Pete Bowers originally
designed the flat windshield for 1/8 inch plexiglas. I am going to go with
Lexan, but I can only find 0.080" Lexan locally. If I have to order from ACSS
I will need to order 8 sq feet instead of only a 28"x 30" panel from Lowes.
What say ye? Will the .080" thick Lexan be a OK replacement strength wise for
the 1/8" acrylic? The frame is .052" 5052 aluminum. I do know that Don Emch
and Hans Vandevoo both used .080 Lexan on formed windshields, but I was wondering
about the flat style.
Rick Schreiber
Sent from my iPad
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| Subject: | Re: Drilling troubles |
Curt,
Cobalt "coated" drills are a joke; don't buy them. If you're going to buy a set
of Drills, watch the Harbor Freight ads, and by a set of Cobalt Drills. These
are great drills, we use them in my shop classes, and they last. They're excellent
drills, and I tell my students and the guys in my EAA chapter that they're
"China's Finest." And I stand by that. (Northern Tool sells Cobalt coated
drills for the same $$, and they're junk.)
TiN coated drills, on the other hand, are nice to look at, pretty good to use,
but they to, are inferior to the Cobalt drills sold by Harbor Freight.
We watch the flyer, and when they're on sale for $99. per set, we always buy a
new set to replace the drills we have lost thru attrition.
The advice given in an earlier post about the tools was pretty good; my contribution
is that if you have an older drill press, and the spindle bearings need
to be replaced, do that for $30 rather than buying a new junk drill press. Also,
be sure to support the workpiece with a piece of wood, MDF, whatever, so your
drill doesn't try to extrude rather than cut. If you don't already have one,
invest a few bucks in a drill press vice; they make a huge difference.
When you're drilling a larger hole, first drill a pilot hole the size of the web
of the larger drill. The larger drill will follow the pilot hole, and give
you better results.
If you follow the above, and learn a little about the suggested SFPM of various
materials, you'll be well on your way to producing parts with precision holes.
--------
Tom Kreiner
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| Subject: | Windshield thickness |
Rick,
I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's Aircraft
Supply....haven't blown away yet...
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 6:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
I am building a 3 panel flybaby style windshield for my Piet. Pete Bowers
originally designed the flat windshield for 1/8 inch plexiglas. I am going
to go with Lexan, but I can only find 0.080" Lexan locally. If I have to
order from ACSS I will need to order 8 sq feet instead of only a 28"x 30"
panel from Lowes. What say ye? Will the .080" thick Lexan be a OK
replacement strength wise for the 1/8" acrylic? The frame is .052" 5052
aluminum. I do know that Don Emch and Hans Vandevoo both used .080 Lexan on
formed windshields, but I was wondering about the flat style.
Rick Schreiber
Sent from my iPad
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield thickness |
On 11/5/2013 9:42 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's Aircraft
> Supply....haven't blown away yet...
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
Gary,
I was going to use Lowe's 1/8 inch Lexan, but as I said both of the
local Lowes only have it in 0.09". Looking at Lowes website, they say
both stores have the 1/8 inch material, but that's not true. I also
notice now that the website says the material is 1/8", but when you
click on the specs the thickness is listed as 0.093" thick, not 0.125".
Gary, when you get a chance could you check the thickness of the Lowes
Lexan that you used. I'm not trying to over-think this, but as difficult
as these windows are to make, I sure don't want to make a mistake.
The nice thing about the Lowes material is that the 28x30 sheet size is
big enough to do both the front and rear windshields. If I order true
1/8" Lexan from ACSS the 2'x2' sheet is too small. In order to have
enough material I would have to order a minimum of 8 square feet for
twice as much money.
Rick Schreiber
Message 17
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| Subject: | Windshield thickness |
Should be able to get a reading tomorrow...
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
--> <lmforge@earthlink.net>
On 11/5/2013 9:42 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's Aircraft
> Supply....haven't blown away yet...
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
Gary,
I was going to use Lowe's 1/8 inch Lexan, but as I said both of the local
Lowes only have it in 0.09". Looking at Lowes website, they say both stores
have the 1/8 inch material, but that's not true. I also notice now that the
website says the material is 1/8", but when you click on the specs the
thickness is listed as 0.093" thick, not 0.125".
Gary, when you get a chance could you check the thickness of the Lowes Lexan
that you used. I'm not trying to over-think this, but as difficult as these
windows are to make, I sure don't want to make a mistake.
The nice thing about the Lowes material is that the 28x30 sheet size is big
enough to do both the front and rear windshields. If I order true 1/8" Lexan
from ACSS the 2'x2' sheet is too small. In order to have enough material I
would have to order a minimum of 8 square feet for twice as much money.
Rick Schreiber
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield thickness |
Rick,
A lot of glass supply places also sell plexiglass and lexan in just
about any size/amount you want - check around locally. I used to get
lexan for my lab at a place a couple blocks from campus, and this was
in a small midwestern town, so I'd say it shouldn't be hard to find.
Kip Gardner
On Nov 5, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote:
> >
>
> On 11/5/2013 9:42 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>> Rick,
>>
>> I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's Aircraft
>> Supply....haven't blown away yet...
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> NX308MB
>>
> Gary,
> I was going to use Lowe's 1/8 inch Lexan, but as I said both of the
> local Lowes only have it in 0.09". Looking at Lowes website, they
> say both stores have the 1/8 inch material, but that's not true. I
> also notice now that the website says the material is 1/8", but when
> you click on the specs the thickness is listed as 0.093" thick, not
> 0.125". Gary, when you get a chance could you check the thickness of
> the Lowes Lexan that you used. I'm not trying to over-think this,
> but as difficult as these windows are to make, I sure don't want to
> make a mistake.
>
> The nice thing about the Lowes material is that the 28x30 sheet size
> is big enough to do both the front and rear windshields. If I order
> true 1/8" Lexan from ACSS the 2'x2' sheet is too small. In order to
> have enough material I would have to order a minimum of 8 square
> feet for twice as much money.
>
> Rick Schreiber
>
>
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