---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/17/13: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:47 AM - Re: Re: Prop carving (danhelsper@aol.com) 2. 07:09 AM - Propeller templates (Jim Birke) 3. 08:26 AM - FW: Pietenpol S/N 1 (Gary Boothe) 4. 08:47 AM - Piet for sale (kmordecai001@comcast.net) 5. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Prop carving (Amsafetyc) 6. 04:42 PM - Re: Rick's flight (Rick Holland) 7. 05:14 PM - Re: Almost ten years later (Rick Holland) 8. 06:11 PM - Re: Almost ten years later (Steven Dortch) 9. 06:13 PM - Re: Rick's flight (Steven Dortch) 10. 06:21 PM - Re: Piet for sale (Steven Dortch) 11. 06:57 PM - How Much Fabric? (jarheadpilot82) 12. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: Rick Holland Flies!!!!!!!!!!! (Rick Holland) 13. 07:30 PM - Re: Rick's flight (Rick Holland) 14. 07:37 PM - Re: Almost ten years later (Rick Holland) 15. 07:43 PM - Re: Rick's flight (Steven Dortch) 16. 07:56 PM - Re: Almost ten years later (Steven Dortch) 17. 08:28 PM - Re: How Much Fabric? (taildrags) 18. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: How Much Fabric? (Ken Bickers) 19. 09:06 PM - Re: Re: How Much Fabric? (jim hyde) 20. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: How Much Fabric? (Ken Bickers) 21. 09:19 PM - Re: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication (Ray Krause) 22. 09:43 PM - Re: FW: Pietenpol S/N 1 (Ray Krause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving From: danhelsper@aol.com John, Here is some visual motivation for you my good friend. Time to put-on the C arhartz, get back over to the hangar and fire-up the chainsaw. If you make a mistake, just make the same one on the opposite side.....no worries! Next thing you know its gonna be spring and you can test her out! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: AMsafetyC Sent: Sat, Nov 16, 2013 7:33 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving Scott, I'm in a rut, you can always come help me build, I'm making no progress fas t so anyone interested in coming to help build please feel free to come and help. I'm hoping for second wind of builders enthusiasm.Just too diluted and too far behind with work, business and medical issues I can sure uses a kick start. John In a message dated 11/1/2013 1:45:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Scott.lief eld@lacity.org writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "AircamperN11MS" Chris, That building bug just won't go away, even after you fly. I still miss h aving something to build sometimes. Especially when I can't fly due to w eather. Have fun with it. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411920#411920 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:38 AM PST US From: Jim Birke Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller templates Would anyone have the templates (drawings) needed to carve a Lawrence 28 propeller as used on a Ford A engine? (6' length - 42" pitch.) Since dimensions are important, if the drawings were in the .DWG (AutoCad) format. If not that, any other format would do as long as there was a grid of some dimension as a background for the image. I'll be happy to pay for them. Jim Birke ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:16 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol S/N 1 Here=99s some nice Sunday morning reading, scanned and forwarded to me by my hangar neighbor. Most is history that we know of, but interesting that it comes from the Model T Club. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: Dennis Coulter [mailto:dennis.coulter@zetabroadband.com] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 7:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol S/N 1 Gary, I hope you and Pietenpol guys find this as interesting as I did. Dennis ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:39 AM PST US From: kmordecai001@comcast.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale Fellow Pieters, I=C2-regretfully announce that I am selling NX520SF due to ongoing knee a nd leg issues.=C2- Only managed about 15 hours/year the last two years fo llowing a torn meniscus, surgery=C2-and a re-injury, followed by an injur y to the other knee shortly afterwards.=C2- Now they tend to cramp up and need stretching after a few minutes seated in the plane, and there's not e nough room for me to do that. This is John Ficklen's plane, completed in 2004, purchased by me in 2005, a nd has been=C2-kept=C2-in an insulated hangar at 2J0.=C2- 217 TTAF, n ever left out overnight, and looked after by an anal-retentive maintenance fanatic (me) who frets over a few bugs on the prop and promptly cleans them off after every flight.=C2- Continental A-75, 184 SMOH, chrome cylinders , standard dimensions (not ground undersize) flanged C85 crank, Real Gasket pushrod tubes (I can't tolerate oil leaks).=C2- Slick mags and harnesses .=C2- Except for the Hegy prop, it's all certified from the motor mount f orward.=C2- =C2- The craftsmanship is superb.=C2- I never made it to Sun n Fun, but this w ould certainly have been a prize winner if I had. =C2- I was looking forward to flying the life out of this essentially new=C2-m otor, but now will start trying on other planes for size and legroom.=C2- Listed it on Barnstormers last night.=C2- Includes the intercom, Icom ra dio, and GPS.=C2-=C2- https://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=840784 =C2- Feel free to=C2-email or call for more details or photos=C2-if you're i nterested.=C2- Asking $16,900, which is way=C2-less than I've got in it .=C2-(ain't that how it always works out?) =C2- Dave Mordecai 41 Monocoupe Circle Panacea, FL=C2-=C2- (2J0) 850-984-4856=C2- home 850-891-5936=C2- office 850-694-8235=C2- cell kmordecai001@comcast.net =C2- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving From: Amsafetyc Thanks Earl, Since my back and knee started really bothering me it's been a struggle to work. And with the store it's been 7 days a week since may or June. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 16, 2013, at 9:21 PM, "echobravo4" wrote: > > > Hey John > Let me know when you'll be at the hanger and what ya want to get > done and I'll come help! > > -------- > Earl Brown > > I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413228#413228 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rick's flight From: Rick Holland Thank you Douwe, attached a picture, ready to fly, not so much a piece of art and engineering like yours. You are the Pietenpol renaissance man. Rick H On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Douwe Blumberg < douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote: > Yay Rick!!! Way to go! > > > Send in some pics of your plane, I don=92t think I=92ve seen her all fin ished > up. > > > Douwe > > * > =========== m> ldersbooks.com> .com> com> om/contribution> =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost ten years later From: Rick Holland Thank you Randy. That first flight was the most exciting thing I have done since my first sky dive back in the 70s (but much more fun). Rick H On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Robert Bush wrote: > Congratulations Rick, glad to see you in the air. Makes all those years of > work worth it doesn't it? > On another note, there is a good write up in the October issue of general > aviation news on Greg Cardinal and Bob Poore and their piets. > Randy Bush > NX294RB > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 15, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > > Ordered my Pietenpol plans on 10/28/2003 and it flew the first time on > 10/24/2013, four days short of ten years later. > > Some details: > > Engine: Corvair 2700 cc > Prop: Tennessee 66x30 > Empty wt: 736 > Flight test CG (half fuel): 16 1/4" aft of LE (1 1/4" back from front > limit, cabanes vertical) > Runway elevation: 6840 ft. > Temp: 53F > Runway density alt: 8112 ft. > Maneuvering altitude over airport: 9000 ft (10215 ft. DA, and could easily > go higher) > Total flight time in last 38 years prior to flight: 2 hrs dual in 172 and > .9 hr of dual touch and goes in back seat of a Decathlon. > CHT: 370 F max on climb and 340 F at cruise (stock 12 plate cooler). > Oil Pressure: mid 40s > > > Flight went great. I have flown lots of spam cans and although I am bias > of course I have to agree with Mike C and Jack P when they say that nothing > is as much fun as flyin a Piet. Very easy to fly, takeoff and land (even > with zero time in type). > > Only change needed after flight - add front support for cowling (air > pressure pushed it against prop hub), flew hands off, no trim needed. > > Want to thank everyone on the forum (and WW) for providing answers to all > my stupid questions and moral support. Building a machine from scratch and > flying it is definitely one of the most memorable events you will ever > experience as everyone that has done it has said. > > One other thing I learned, putting a video camera on top of a Pietenpol > fin makes for a shaky video at full power (but it's better than no video): > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLxFp0JLhU > > Thank again guys > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost ten years later From: Steven Dortch You must have forgotten how exciting that skydive was!!! Yahoo. Adrenaline junkies forever. Each flight is exciting. And first flights more so! On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Thank you Randy. That first flight was the most exciting thing I have done > since my first sky dive back in the 70s (but much more fun). > > Rick H > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Robert Bush wrote: > >> Congratulations Rick, glad to see you in the air. Makes all those years >> of work worth it doesn't it? >> On another note, there is a good write up in the October issue of general >> aviation news on Greg Cardinal and Bob Poore and their piets. >> Randy Bush >> NX294RB >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Nov 15, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Rick Holland wrote: >> >> Ordered my Pietenpol plans on 10/28/2003 and it flew the first time on >> 10/24/2013, four days short of ten years later. >> >> Some details: >> >> Engine: Corvair 2700 cc >> Prop: Tennessee 66x30 >> Empty wt: 736 >> Flight test CG (half fuel): 16 1/4" aft of LE (1 1/4" back from front >> limit, cabanes vertical) >> Runway elevation: 6840 ft. >> Temp: 53F >> Runway density alt: 8112 ft. >> Maneuvering altitude over airport: 9000 ft (10215 ft. DA, and could >> easily go higher) >> Total flight time in last 38 years prior to flight: 2 hrs dual in 172 and >> .9 hr of dual touch and goes in back seat of a Decathlon. >> CHT: 370 F max on climb and 340 F at cruise (stock 12 plate cooler). >> Oil Pressure: mid 40s >> >> >> Flight went great. I have flown lots of spam cans and although I am bias >> of course I have to agree with Mike C and Jack P when they say that nothing >> is as much fun as flyin a Piet. Very easy to fly, takeoff and land (even >> with zero time in type). >> >> Only change needed after flight - add front support for cowling (air >> pressure pushed it against prop hub), flew hands off, no trim needed. >> >> Want to thank everyone on the forum (and WW) for providing answers to all >> my stupid questions and moral support. Building a machine from scratch and >> flying it is definitely one of the most memorable events you will ever >> experience as everyone that has done it has said. >> >> One other thing I learned, putting a video camera on top of a Pietenpol >> fin makes for a shaky video at full power (but it's better than no video): >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLxFp0JLhU >> >> Thank again guys >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle Rock, Colorado >> NX6819Z >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> 3D============================================ >> "> >> 3D============================================ >> 3D============================================ >> 3D============================================ >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rick's flight From: Steven Dortch Rick, this inspired me to go do one more project. Mine will be forthright just like yours. Steve D On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Thank you Douwe, attached a picture, ready to fly, not so much a piece of > art and engineering like yours. You are the Pietenpol renaissance man. > > Rick H > > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Douwe Blumberg < > douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Yay Rick!!! Way to go! >> >> >> >> Send in some pics of your plane, I don=92t think I=92ve seen her all >> finished up. >> >> >> >> Douwe >> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> ank">www.mrrace.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet for sale From: Steven Dortch Dave, I am not in the market but a photo would certainly help. Blue Skies, Steve D On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 10:47 AM, wrote: > Fellow Pieters, > I regretfully announce that I am selling NX520SF due to ongoing knee and > leg issues. Only managed about 15 hours/year the last two years following > a torn meniscus, surgery and a re-injury, followed by an injury to the > other knee shortly afterwards. Now they tend to cramp up and need > stretching after a few minutes seated in the plane, and there's not enough > room for me to do that. > This is John Ficklen's plane, completed in 2004, purchased by me in 2005, > and has been kept in an insulated hangar at 2J0. 217 TTAF, never left out > overnight, and looked after by an anal-retentive maintenance fanatic (me) > who frets over a few bugs on the prop and promptly cleans them off after > every flight. Continental A-75, 184 SMOH, chrome cylinders, standard > dimensions (not ground undersize) flanged C85 crank, Real Gasket pushrod > tubes (I can't tolerate oil leaks). Slick mags and harnesses. Except for > the Hegy prop, it's all certified from the motor mount forward. > > The craftsmanship is superb. I never made it to Sun n Fun, but this would > certainly have been a prize winner if I had. > > I was looking forward to flying the life out of this essentially > new motor, but now will start trying on other planes for size and legroom. > Listed it on Barnstormers last night. Includes the intercom, Icom radio, > and GPS. > https://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=840784 > > Feel free to email or call for more details or photos if you're > interested. Asking $16,900, which is way less than I've got in it. (ain't > that how it always works out?) > > Dave Mordecai > 41 Monocoupe Circle > Panacea, FL (2J0) > 850-984-4856 home > 850-891-5936 office > 850-694-8235 cell > kmordecai001@comcast.net > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: How Much Fabric? From: "jarheadpilot82" I am nowhere near ready to cover, but I am just trying to get my budget in order for my build. I searched the Forum archives but did not find much, if any information regarding how much fabric is used to cover the Air Camper. I did, however, find this very old post. I have underlined and made bold the "punchline" of the discussion. So If I am doing my math 6' X 135' = 90 square yards? Or is it sold as 45 running yards of 6 foot wide fabric? Help!! - "Date: Feb 29, 2000 From: Ken Beanlands Subject: Re: Fabric expert needed WOW, 7.8 oz fabric! You could cover the shuttle with that stuff ;-). Seriously though, 7.8 oz is way too heavy for aircraft use. I suspect that it's sailcloth. Most piets are covered with 1.8 oz fabric and a few with 2.7 oz. 3.7 oz is the heaviest used on aircraft and is reserved for things like ag-planes, DC-3's etc, bellies and LG of lighter planes. By the time you applied enoughchemical to seal the paint, it would be quite heavy. The other thing is that there is no way to tell if the fabric was pre-shrunk at the factory or not. Aircraft fabric does not go through the last polymerization cycle. That is left for after the fabric is installed on the plane. This alows the builder to shrink the fabric using an iron. If this is done at the factory, you'll never get a taught fabric job onthe plane. Besides, fabric is cheap. My Christavia used 45 yds of 102 (2.7 oz) and it was only $6 per yard for a total of $270 and you can even get cheaper stuff if you go with the non-certified stuff that ACS sells (same stuff, different label). Considering that the rest of the covering systems generally cost about $1700, I wouldn't scrimp on the fabric by using something you have no data on. I'd try and find someone involved in sailing and unload it with them. Besides, it takes 6' x 135' so your 52"x26'6" won't come anywhere near covering the plane. Hope that helps. Ken On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, drmeece wrote: > > Hello List > I hope someone can help me out with some info. I have some cloth that I > would like to use to cover the Piet But I'm not sure it will work. The only > info I have is the lable on the box. It reads 52"x26'6" DB 7.8oz Fil NY 6.6 > >From this small amount of info can anyone tell if this cloth will work. > Thank You > Daryl Meece -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413255#413255 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Holland Flies!!!!!!!!!!! From: Rick Holland Thank you Oscar. A few comments on the first flight. After reading everything I could find on the subject of test flying and talking to ex-military and even a couple air show aerobatic pilots it came down to two different philosophies: 1) Multiple fast taxies and crow hops prior to really doing a take off. 2) The ground is the enemy, test run the engine at full power for a full two minutes then do a normal takeoff and get as much air between you and the ground as possible. Was still undecided until I went up for an hour with an air show pilot that instructs in a Decathlon for some tailwheel time. He is an A&P and does all the work on his own Edge 540, Pitts, and the Decathlon. He told me about all the runs off the runway, serious bounces, and ground loops he has witnessed by people testing new, repaired, and modified aircraft using scenario #1. At that point I decided to do scenario #2. I figured if the engine would run a full two minutes full power without problems prior to the first takeoff it would probably run at least long enough after lift-off to get me the altitude and airspeed to do at least a straight ahead emergency landing if needed. And the only other thing I was concerned about was a serious out of rig condition where I would have to hold a bunch of side and/or fore/aft stick just to stay level. (And as a side note - talking about out of rig conditions, the instructor that I just went up with for two hours in a 172 for my first BFR renewal in 38 years told me about a student of his who just finished building a KR2 that he volunteered to test fly. He got it off the ground, it started a left barrel roll even though he was holding full right stick and crashed upside down on the side of the runway. Plane was demolished, he got out with only a scratch. That was the last time he flew any experimental. He strongly recommended scenario #1). Anyhow I did a takeoff just like I did in the Decathlon, could tell as soon as it left the ground that no out of rig condition existed, and from then on I concentrated mostly on the engine gauges, climbed up to 9000 ft. over the airport and actually had a great time (no cooling problems). Landing was easier than landing the Decathlon since I didn't have an instructors big fat head in front of me and I could see the instrument board. The Piet flare felt very similar to the Decathlon flare (with two 200 lb. guys and that symmetric wing, minimal float). Rick H On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 7:17 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Rick; my sincere congratulations to you for your successful first flight!. > It is always inspiring to see yet another Piet take to the air, and it > really looks like it was a beautiful day for the event. Decompress and > give us some feedback on your sensations from the flight. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413183#413183 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rick's flight From: Rick Holland What would that new project be Steve? My next project will be a Panther with yet another Corvair engine (3 liter this time), started looking for a core engine right after my first test flight: http://flywithspa.com/panther/pantherspecs.html I really need something to do out in my garage besides working on cars. Rick H On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Steven Dortch w rote: > Rick, this inspired me to go do one more project. Mine will be forthright > just like yours. > Steve D > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > >> Thank you Douwe, attached a picture, ready to fly, not so much a piece o f >> art and engineering like yours. You are the Pietenpol renaissance man. >> >> Rick H >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Douwe Blumberg < >> douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> Yay Rick!!! Way to go! >>> >>> >>> >>> Send in some pics of your plane, I don=92t think I=92ve seen her all >>> finished up. >>> >>> >>> >>> Douwe >>> >>> * >>> >>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>> ank">www.mrrace.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List < http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> * >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle Rock, Colorado >> NX6819Z >> >> >> > > * > =========== m> ldersbooks.com> .com> com> om/contribution> =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost ten years later From: Rick Holland Steve I said the Piet flight was the most exciting thing SINCE the sky dive, not necessarily more exciting. It is a very different kind of excitement (terror) though, the sky dive was static line so I was just like a bag of cement being dropped from 3000 ft. my fate was totally in the hands of some guy that packed the chute. With an airplane first flight you are in control and your actions (reactions) mean everything. rh On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > You must have forgotten how exciting that skydive was!!! Yahoo. Adrenaline > junkies forever. Each flight is exciting. And first flights more so! > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > >> Thank you Randy. That first flight was the most exciting thing I have >> done since my first sky dive back in the 70s (but much more fun). >> >> Rick H >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Robert Bush wrote: >> >>> Congratulations Rick, glad to see you in the air. Makes all those years >>> of work worth it doesn't it? >>> On another note, there is a good write up in the October issue of >>> general aviation news on Greg Cardinal and Bob Poore and their piets. >>> Randy Bush >>> NX294RB >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Rick Holland wrote: >>> >>> Ordered my Pietenpol plans on 10/28/2003 and it flew the first time on >>> 10/24/2013, four days short of ten years later. >>> >>> Some details: >>> >>> Engine: Corvair 2700 cc >>> Prop: Tennessee 66x30 >>> Empty wt: 736 >>> Flight test CG (half fuel): 16 1/4" aft of LE (1 1/4" back from front >>> limit, cabanes vertical) >>> Runway elevation: 6840 ft. >>> Temp: 53F >>> Runway density alt: 8112 ft. >>> Maneuvering altitude over airport: 9000 ft (10215 ft. DA, and could >>> easily go higher) >>> Total flight time in last 38 years prior to flight: 2 hrs dual in 172 >>> and .9 hr of dual touch and goes in back seat of a Decathlon. >>> CHT: 370 F max on climb and 340 F at cruise (stock 12 plate cooler). >>> Oil Pressure: mid 40s >>> >>> >>> Flight went great. I have flown lots of spam cans and although I am bias >>> of course I have to agree with Mike C and Jack P when they say that nothing >>> is as much fun as flyin a Piet. Very easy to fly, takeoff and land (even >>> with zero time in type). >>> >>> Only change needed after flight - add front support for cowling (air >>> pressure pushed it against prop hub), flew hands off, no trim needed. >>> >>> Want to thank everyone on the forum (and WW) for providing answers to >>> all my stupid questions and moral support. Building a machine from scratch >>> and flying it is definitely one of the most memorable events you will ever >>> experience as everyone that has done it has said. >>> >>> One other thing I learned, putting a video camera on top of a Pietenpol >>> fin makes for a shaky video at full power (but it's better than no video): >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLxFp0JLhU >>> >>> Thank again guys >>> >>> -- >>> Rick Holland >>> Castle Rock, Colorado >>> NX6819Z >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> 3D============================================ >>> "> >>> 3D============================================ >>> 3D============================================ >>> 3D============================================ >>> * >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Holland >> Castle Rock, Colorado >> NX6819Z >> >> >> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> ank">www.mrrace.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rick's flight From: Steven Dortch OOPs By project I mean, one more step on the way to flight with his Piet. Having said that, I may do a Primary glider, or restore a model T, Or make a Belly flopper. Then again I will be involved in getting my 1948 Vtail Bonanza up and annualed again. This Bonanza is really a kit plane that came assembled as a Beech Bonanza. I have disassembled and reassembled most of the plane over 12 or so years. A man needs a 4 seat cross country machine. Of note, This old plane will fly on Autogas (But no alcohol) and gets about 18 MPG with 4 adults at 170MPH. Thus it is a great cross country except for the maintenance of an old aircraft. My hope is that some current FAA proposals will greatly lower the cost a old plane mantenance. Experimentals forever. On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > What would that new project be Steve? My next project will be a Panther > with yet another Corvair engine (3 liter this time), started looking for a > core engine right after my first test flight: > > http://flywithspa.com/panther/pantherspecs.html > > I really need something to do out in my garage besides working on cars. > > Rick H > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > >> Rick, this inspired me to go do one more project. Mine will be forthrigh t >> just like yours. >> Steve D >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Rick Holland wrote : >> >>> Thank you Douwe, attached a picture, ready to fly, not so much a piece >>> of art and engineering like yours. You are the Pietenpol renaissance ma n. >>> >>> Rick H >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Douwe Blumberg < >>> douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Yay Rick!!! Way to go! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Send in some pics of your plane, I don=92t think I=92ve seen her all >>>> finished up. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Douwe >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>>> ank">www.mrrace.com >>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rick Holland >>> Castle Rock, Colorado >>> NX6819Z >>> >>> >>> >> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> ank">www.mrrace.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > > * > =========== m> ldersbooks.com> .com> com> om/contribution> =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost ten years later From: Steven Dortch My first "hop and pop" where I pulled the ripcord was pretty funny. The instructor really drove home "I want to hear your count. "Arch one thousand, Look One thousand, Reach One thousand, Pull one thousand." When I let go of the Cessna Strut, I did the above count perfect and yelled it very loud. However, before I finished yelling "Arch one thousand!" I had my ripcord fully pulled and at arms length from my body. I continued the count as though nothing was unusual. I would bet I was about 6 inches from the strut when I pulled the ripcord. I did relax later over the next 495 jumps. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Steve > > I said the Piet flight was the most exciting thing SINCE the sky dive, not > necessarily more exciting. It is a very different kind of excitement > (terror) though, the sky dive was static line so I was just like a bag of > cement being dropped from 3000 ft. my fate was totally in the hands of some > guy that packed the chute. With an airplane first flight you are in control > and your actions (reactions) mean everything. > > rh > > > On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > >> You must have forgotten how exciting that skydive was!!! Yahoo. >> Adrenaline junkies forever. Each flight is exciting. And first flights more >> so! >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Rick Holland wrote: >> >>> Thank you Randy. That first flight was the most exciting thing I have >>> done since my first sky dive back in the 70s (but much more fun). >>> >>> Rick H >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Robert Bush wrote: >>> >>>> Congratulations Rick, glad to see you in the air. Makes all those years >>>> of work worth it doesn't it? >>>> On another note, there is a good write up in the October issue of >>>> general aviation news on Greg Cardinal and Bob Poore and their piets. >>>> Randy Bush >>>> NX294RB >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Rick Holland wrote: >>>> >>>> Ordered my Pietenpol plans on 10/28/2003 and it flew the first time on >>>> 10/24/2013, four days short of ten years later. >>>> >>>> Some details: >>>> >>>> Engine: Corvair 2700 cc >>>> Prop: Tennessee 66x30 >>>> Empty wt: 736 >>>> Flight test CG (half fuel): 16 1/4" aft of LE (1 1/4" back from front >>>> limit, cabanes vertical) >>>> Runway elevation: 6840 ft. >>>> Temp: 53F >>>> Runway density alt: 8112 ft. >>>> Maneuvering altitude over airport: 9000 ft (10215 ft. DA, and could >>>> easily go higher) >>>> Total flight time in last 38 years prior to flight: 2 hrs dual in 172 >>>> and .9 hr of dual touch and goes in back seat of a Decathlon. >>>> CHT: 370 F max on climb and 340 F at cruise (stock 12 plate cooler). >>>> Oil Pressure: mid 40s >>>> >>>> >>>> Flight went great. I have flown lots of spam cans and although I am >>>> bias of course I have to agree with Mike C and Jack P when they say that >>>> nothing is as much fun as flyin a Piet. Very easy to fly, takeoff and land >>>> (even with zero time in type). >>>> >>>> Only change needed after flight - add front support for cowling (air >>>> pressure pushed it against prop hub), flew hands off, no trim needed. >>>> >>>> Want to thank everyone on the forum (and WW) for providing answers to >>>> all my stupid questions and moral support. Building a machine from scratch >>>> and flying it is definitely one of the most memorable events you will ever >>>> experience as everyone that has done it has said. >>>> >>>> One other thing I learned, putting a video camera on top of a Pietenpol >>>> fin makes for a shaky video at full power (but it's better than no video): >>>> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLxFp0JLhU >>>> >>>> Thank again guys >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Rick Holland >>>> Castle Rock, Colorado >>>> NX6819Z >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> "> >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> 3D============================================ >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Rick Holland >>> Castle Rock, Colorado >>> NX6819Z >>> >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>> ank">www.mrrace.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> * >>> >>> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> ank">www.mrrace.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > NX6819Z > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric? From: "taildrags" Terry; I have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by information that I found in my own search of the archives a few years ago when I was doing latex paint testing. The writeup for those tests can be found here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html You will notice that the section of text between the two images of the unfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" width fabric. Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have no idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow for any overhang, patches, or wiggle room. Your mileage may vary. However, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more than the number that I had. Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and see who else chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity. Chris Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413261#413261 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric? From: Ken Bickers I recently completed covering my Pietenpol. If all goes well, I may even be able to finish painting it by Thanksgiving (except for the cowl and nosebowl, which still await fabrication). My original order of 37 yards of the 1.8 oz 72" wide uncertified ceconite from Aircraft Spruce came up a few yards short. So I ended up ordering another 5 yards of the same material. I used balsa to fair my diagonal struts and jury struts and covered all of those with fabric. Otherwise, the 37 yards would have been more than enough. I bought all of the rest of my covering supplies from Stewart Systems. That included 1 gallon and 1 quart of the glue, a gallon of fabric and wood primer, a quart of the metal primer, a quart of the etching solution, and miscellaneous other items. The SS quantities were spot on. I will end up with small amounts of each item remaining, without the need for any additional amounts. Cheers, Ken On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:28 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Terry; > > I have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by > information that I found in my own search of the archives a few years ago > when I was doing latex paint testing. The writeup for those tests can be > found here: > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > > You will notice that the section of text between the two images of the > unfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" > width fabric. Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have > no idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow > for any overhang, patches, or wiggle room. Your mileage may vary. > However, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you > mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more > than the number that I had. Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and > see who else chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity. Chris > Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413261#413261 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:18 PM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric? if you get some free time read this=0A-=0Ajim=0A=0AFrom: taildrags =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, Novem ber 17, 2013 10:28 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric?=0A=0A >=0A=0ATerry;=0A=0AI have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by information that I found in my own search of the archives a few ye ars ago when I was doing latex paint testing.- The writeup for those test s can be found here:=0Ahttp://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html=0A =0AYou will notice that the section of text between the two images of the u nfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" widt h fabric.- Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have n o idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow f or any overhang, patches, or wiggle room.- Your mileage may vary.- Howe ver, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more than the number that I had.- Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and see who e lse chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity.- Chris Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info.=0A=0A--------=0AOsca r Zuniga=0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A =0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/v - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List ======================= ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric? From: Ken Bickers ... one correction. Stewart Systems sent me two gallons of the fabric primer (EkoFill). I should end up with about a quart or so remaining. On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 10:05 PM, jim hyde wrote: > if you get some free time read this > > jim > > *From:* taildrags > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 17, 2013 10:28 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: How Much Fabric? > > > Terry; > > I have never covered a complete Air Camper, so I'm just going by > information that I found in my own search of the archives a few years ago > when I was doing latex paint testing. The writeup for those tests can be > found here: > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > > You will notice that the section of text between the two images of the > unfinished test panel and the finished test panel lists 38 yards of 60" > width fabric. Again, since I have never covered a complete airplane I have > no idea whether this is accurate or not, and in any case it does not allow > for any overhang, patches, or wiggle room. Your mileage may vary. > However, that adds up to 570 sq. ft. of fabric and the number that you > mention in your post, 6' x 135', adds up to 810 sq. ft. or about 40% more > than the number that I had. Let's keep this ball in play for awhile and > see who else chimes in with recent covering experience and quantity. Chris > Rusch, Ken Bickers, and a few others should have fresh info. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413261#413261/www.matronics.com/contribution" > target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/c -Matt Dralle, List > Admin.< gt; > http://forums.matronics.com/ > ============= > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:22 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Tube Fuselage Passenger Door Fabrication Jake, What a coincidence! This is exactly what I have been pondering the last few days as I finish up the last few details on my fuselage. I am also using rudder pedals and toe brakes. If I had stuck with Bernard's design, I would not have this problem! That rudder horn looks pretty fragile if I ever really get on the brakes in a panic stop (or more accurately, a panic slow down). Mike, I am referencing Uncle Tony's tomes. I am leaning towards the two pulleys and one cable connected from one pedal to the other. That way, the rudder cables will stay in the same place as designed and undue stress will not be transferred to the rudder horn. Ray Krause SkyScout Sent from my iPad > On Nov 16, 2013, at 10:19 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > Your fuselage looks great.. Progressing well here. I have been laying out the routes for the rudder cables. I am using pedals instead of the rudder bar so I am positioning a "pivot bar" in the aft fuselage to take the loads when I may push on both pedals at once - such as hard braking. This way the pivot bar takes the stress and the cables back from there to the relatively delicate rudder, rudder hinges, and rudder bar are a steady/lower tension. > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413237#413237 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:50 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Pietenpol S/N 1 Thanks, Gary. I had not seen this article. It is great. Ray Sent from my iPad > On Nov 17, 2013, at 8:25 AM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > Here=99s some nice Sunday morning reading, scanned and forwarded to m e by my hangar neighbor. Most is history that we know of, but interesting th at it comes from the Model T Club. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > From: Dennis Coulter [mailto:dennis.coulter@zetabroadband.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 7:33 PM > To: Boothe, Gary > Subject: Pietenpol S/N 1 > > Gary, I hope you and Pietenpol guys find this as interesting as I did. > > Dennis > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.