---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/19/13: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:28 AM - Re: Prop carving (AircamperN11MS) 2. 07:43 AM - Corvair College 28, 28 Feb - 2 Mar 2014, San Marcos, TX (kevinpurtee) 3. 07:48 AM - Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Grantz5906) 4. 11:08 AM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (bdewenter) 5. 11:54 AM - Mike Weaver - slow day (Gary Boothe) 6. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: Prop carving (Amsafetyc) 7. 01:47 PM - Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 8. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (Jim Boyer) 9. 02:43 PM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (tools) 10. 02:45 PM - Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 11. 02:54 PM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Gary Boothe) 12. 03:23 PM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Bill Church) 13. 03:45 PM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (bdewenter) 14. 05:29 PM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (GrantZ) 15. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Marcus Zechini) 16. 07:58 PM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Clif Dawson) 17. 08:42 PM - Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving From: "AircamperN11MS" John, I hope you get to feeling better. With pain like that I understand why you don't feel like doing anything. Work on healing up and then I think you will feel like working on it again. Back pain is the worst. Keep watching the list and stay in touch with all of us for inspiration. Good luck, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413417#413417 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair College 28, 28 Feb - 2 Mar 2014, San Marcos, TX From: "kevinpurtee" I've posted important information on lodging. Please check the Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Corvair-College-28/320305497999282 -------- Kevin "Axel" Purtee Rebuilding NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413424#413424 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:34 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: Grantz5906 I have?finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects.? I am looking forward to the pro ject and participating in the list discussions.? I have already gained a vo lume of useful information from this group.? Thanks!! ? I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated i t was enough wood to build a complete aircraft.? As luck would have it, upo n measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long.? Would it be problematic to i ncrease the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center sect ion - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar s pan of 29'-5"?? ?OR? Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? ? Thanks for the assistance. ? Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ? ? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: "bdewenter" Welcome to the forum Grant! -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413441#413441 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:38 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mike Weaver - slow day Helping Mike Weaver hoist his fuselage to the ceiling so he can start on wings. Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving From: Amsafetyc Thanks Scott it's been about year and really in need of relief. I'm optimistic and just wanted to let you and everyone know I'm still alive. And when I can get off my ass and return to building I plan on doing that because I ain't sellin my Piet as previously suggested by another list member. Best to all John Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 19, 2013, at 9:28 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > > John, > > I hope you get to feeling better. With pain like that I understand why you don't feel like doing anything. Work on healing up and then I think you will feel like working on it again. Back pain is the worst. > > Keep watching the list and stay in touch with all of us for inspiration. > > Good luck, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413417#413417 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:47:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" I'm getting a lot more done with the fuselage overhead. $9 Harbor Freight bicycle lift good for 100lbs. Current stage only weighs 50lbs. Only takes about 30 seconds for one person to move it out of the way for the wife's car. I think I'd rather have a couple of nearby builders to help. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413451#413451 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_642.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:37 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day Hi Curt, Is the bicycle lift your'e talking about the pulley system you used to lift the fuselage up? thanks, Jim B =C2- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: "tools" Wow, good question for a first post! Right off the top of my head, I'd not want to lose a foot and a half of wing. BUT, either case you mention involves making the wing panels a bit shorter. I'm not sure any of this is gonna matter off the top of my head, but something to consider with a wing bay deletion, or change in rib spacing, is whether you're gonna have problems with drag wire interference with the ribs? All your struts might wind up being a different length, and jury struts, etc (this isn't a huge deal). With a center section increase, are you gonna leave the vert struts in the same place, or angle them outwards? If they angle out, they're quite a bit more complicated to make. You can scarf a section onto what you have to make them longer. Proper scarfing on a spar will require plywood doublers, and then the inability to rout as much, with a corresponding increase in some weight, but it can be done. Also, not really supposed to have fittings through a scarf, so you'll have to plan on where you scarf. I'm not recommending you do or don't, or which way you go... just hope to have brought up some things you may not have considered. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413453#413453 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Jim, Yes the one I thought was good for 100 pounds only good for 44 pounds. It's doing good with 50 pound but I'm starting to rethink my setup. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413454#413454 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:17 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question Grant, Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4' center section with 12' spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut length or cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steve's email and contact him directly. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: "Bill Church" Grant, Here's a link to the thread that Gary was referring to: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=45551305?KEYS=eldredge_&_section?LISTNAME=Pietenpol?HITNUMBER=17?SERIAL=15103830788?SHOWBUTTONS=YES Steve writes that his center section was 4 ft wide, and his outer spars 12'-6" (just like yours). as Tools mentioned, you may need to adjust rib locations slightly to avoid drag/anti-drag wire interference, and you'll probably have to do a little more thinking, but at least you will get to use the spars that you already have. I don't recommend splaying your cabanes - that will complicate your life unnecessarily. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413459#413459 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: "bdewenter" Grant, and others Don't over worry about the drag - anti drag wires interfering with "plans" rib spacing (per say). I am considering slightly expanding wing span and using 3 sets of cross brace wires per wing - more X than stock plans. Just don't glue or nail anything until you have dry fitted the ribs to the spars relative to the X wires - and that goes for anyone regardless of wing span or how many brace wires are used... -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413460#413460 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: "GrantZ" Great info, as always from this group. Thanks! Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN [quote="gboothe"]Grant, Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4 center section with 12 spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut length or cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steves email and contact him directly. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:48 AM Subject: Started Construction - Spar Length Question I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9 > 0 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > [b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413462#413462 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: Marcus Zechini My GN-1 has clipped Piper Cub wings. Flies great!..just shorten...;-) On Nov 19, 2013 7:31 PM, "GrantZ" wrote: > > Great info, as always from this group. > > Thanks! > > Grant Ziebell > Savannah, TN > > [quote="gboothe"]Grant, > > Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4=99 center se ction > with 12=99 spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affect s strut > length or cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steve=99s email and contact him > directly. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:48 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Started Construction - Spar Length Question > > I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of > lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward t o > the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already > gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! > > =EF=BD > > I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated > it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, > upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only > > 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to > increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center > section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total > spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center > section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span > of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? > > =EF=BD > > Thanks for the assistance. > > =EF=BD > > Grant Ziebell > > Savannah, TN > > =EF=BD > > =EF=BD > > > > > 0 > > > 1 > > > 2 > > > 3 > > > 4 > > > 5 > > > 6 > > > 7 > > > 8 > > > 9 > > > 0 > > > 1 > > > 2 > > > 3 > > > 4 > > > 5 > > > 6 > > > 7 > > > 8 > > > [b] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413462#413462 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:02 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question You mean like this? The original plans as per the Flying & Glider manual puts the span at 28 ft two in. So with a 36" center section plus your 12"6" plus 1" each side for the tip bows you'd be right there. If you want more span then go 48" but you might want to splay your cabanes some. Six inches past the cabanes is fine but a foot might be a bit much. Go to this page and scrolldown to the diagram and explanation just below the lettering template. This will give you the info necessary to figure out the forces on the wing struts, inner and outer. What you'll see is that the outer struts take the lions share of the load. http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Tools_and_Tips.html As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day From: "taildrags" Curt- be careful what you wish for... you might get it. When you say you would prefer to have a couple of nearby builder friends to help you with the fuselage rather than to have a self-operated hoist system, I just want you to recognize that the speed of forward building progress is inversely proportional to the number of visitors you have in your hangar. If you could only get them to come help you with an awkward task and then just shoo away, it would be great ;o) I must admit that I had two of the best, most helpful, courteous, and considerate such hangar friends when I was in San Antonio. [UNCLASSIFIED] Steve Dortch and John Kuhfahl were those friends. Always available and willing to lend a hand, always polite about letting me get on with whatever I was working on at the time. Since things are a mite slow, I'll also take this opportunity to recognize one of my brother's granddaughters, Emma Green. Emma is just turning 11 years old, but she was only 8 when she got her first airplane ride. In my Piet, of course. She loves airplanes, loves flying, and really played the part the day we went flying. She wore a flight helmet and goggles, and we communicated via a set of old WWII carbon mics and headphones, shouting back and forth into the old black mics, "HOW ARE YOU DOING; OVER"... "I LOVE IT; OVER"... "DO YOU WANT TO GO AROUND AGAIN; OVER"... "YES, PLEASE; OVER"... and like that. What fun. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413469#413469 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.